Posted: Sun 26 Jul 2009 01:36 Post subject: Re: Discovered Black Ancestry at 30
blewtic wrote:
I was told growing up that I was 1/4 Jewish, "1/16 Native American" and 2/3 Celtic. I took an ancestry DNA test so I could submit the results with an application to work on a Native American Reservation. When the results came back it showed that I am not 1/16 Native American but 1/16 Sub Saharan African.
In the past, being 1/16 Black, I'd be called Hexadecaroon. I guess now I'm called "White with Black Ancestry". I'm proud of my African ancestry but I'm so sad that my Great-Grandmother had to lie for better opprotunities. I of course don't blame her. I blame the opressive society in which she was born into.
On forms, I mark "White" but when I am asked now "What are you?" or "Are you Greek, Italian, Spanish...Whatever?", I no longer say "White". I now say 1/4 Jewish, 1/16 Black and 2/3 Celtic. People are shocked that a "White" woman would admit to being part Black. They ask me dozens of questions and make really ignorant comments like, "You don't look Black" or "Oh, yes, I can tell from your nose, butt...whatever". I've even had a college educator co-worker said, "That's why you dance and sing so well".
I'd like to find other Whites with Black ancestry to talk to but I can't find any. Where are they? There aren't many Whites who are unknowly 1/8 or 1/16 Black but there are millions who are 1/32 or 1/64. Can't we talk about it now? Isn't it time?
I'm one, somewhere between 1/8 and 1/16, and I suspect there are more than a few of us who don't know, because that level of admixture isn't visually identifiable, and for many years mixed-race Americans found it advantageous to hide their background if they were light enough to do so. So great grandpa became an "Indian."
I chuckled when you mentioned noses, BTW, because I've had exactly the same thing -- people who suddenly see and describe imaginary African features such as a broad nose and thick lips as soon as I mention that I have some black ancestry. Love the story about singing and dancing, too . . .
Posted: Wed 07 Oct 2009 12:06 Post subject: Re: Discovered Black Ancestry at 30
JoshH wrote:
blewtic wrote:
I'd like to find other Whites with Black ancestry to talk to but I can't find any. Where are they? There aren't many Whites who are unknowly 1/8 or 1/16 Black but there are millions who are 1/32 or 1/64. Can't we talk about it now? Isn't it time?
I'm one, somewhere between 1/8 and 1/16, and I suspect there are more than a few of us who don't know, because that level of admixture isn't visually identifiable,
According to Frank's book, approximately 1/3 of "white" Americans have recent sub-Saharan African ancestry. Nearly all "black" Americans have some of both recent sub-Saharan African and European ancestry.
The lack of "whites" and "blacks" to talk to about it, and the magical notion of an ancestrally based color line itself, are social phenomena. "Whites" and "blacks" are not meaningfully so Europeans and Africans from a clear ancestral or genetic perspective.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1763 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Wed 07 Oct 2009 16:40 Post subject:
erasmusinfinity wrote:
According to Frank's book, approximately 1/3 of "white" Americans have recent sub-Saharan African ancestry. Nearly all "black" Americans have some of both recent sub-Saharan African and European ancestry.
I've always wondered, how far back is recent? Great grands, or even gg grands? Grandparents are recent for sure.
I've always wondered, how far back is recent? Great grands, or even gg grands? Grandparents are recent for sure.
"Recent" in this context means since 1500. The intent of autosomal admixture mapping is to sort out continent-of-origin percentages during the colonial period. The technique looks at single-nucleotide polymorphisms that differ between modern sub-saharan Africans, Europeans, and Native Americans.
"Non-recent" markers show sub-saharan infiltration into Europe when the region was re-populated after the ice melted about 12 KYA. And still earlier (non-recent) markers show everyone's descent from the band that crossed the straits of Bab El Mandeb about 75 KYA. But those markers are irrelevant to the ("recent") colonization of the New World.
Posted: Wed 07 Oct 2009 19:10 Post subject: Re: Discovered Black Ancestry at 30
erasmusinfinity wrote:
JoshH wrote:
I'm one, somewhere between 1/8 and 1/16, and I suspect there are more than a few of us who don't know, because that level of admixture isn't visually identifiable,
According to Frank's book, approximately 1/3 of "white" Americans have recent sub-Saharan African ancestry. Nearly all "black" Americans have some of both recent sub-Saharan African and European ancestry.
The lack of "whites" and "blacks" to talk to about it, and the magical notion of an ancestrally based color line itself, are social phenomena. "Whites" and "blacks" are not meaningfully so Europeans and Africans from a clear ancestral or genetic perspective.
Yes, I saw that figure here, and I'd seen a similar figure on the Ancestry By DNA site.
Or, as my stepmother put it, there are a lot more people who claim descent from Indian princesses than there were Indian princesses.
Posted: Wed 07 Oct 2009 20:08 Post subject: Re: Whites who recently learn of black ancestry and "one drop"
[quote="Powell"]Frank,
Have you ever though of interviewing whites who discover partial black ancestry as adults? How do they relate their discovery to the ODR? How did they define "race" before the discovery and after?
ODR.Was there really such a thing and is there?
It is only for those who use it. It depends on where, what city,region of the country, you live.
To answer the title of the thread,I think people who have been WA for generations, lives as WA, family members marry WA, could care less.
So what , lets say, if they had one great-great-grandparent A Free Person of Color or a Mulatto or even Black.
That gene is so far down the line. Having a BA ancestor is like something that cannot be proven or seen like your height.
Have you ever thought of interviewing WA who discover partial BA ancestry as adults?
Good luck finding people. I can tell you Creoles who passed and who live as WA don't want to be found and don't identify with BA even if they still associate with the extended family for family things where some of the extended members go as WA, BA, look mixed,go as Creole, look mixed,look BA, go as BA,whatever.
You can scratch them off your list.
How do they relate to ODR?
They don't.
How do define "race"before the discovery and after?
WA before and WA after.
I know you have to post a link, proof,of things you say....facts, not assumptions or opinions.
OK, I'll use Bliss Broyard and the other WA(Creole) Broyards she met during her little discovery. She was WA before. She is WA after. No,I have not read her book. I seriously doubt she is saying she is mixed, Mulatto , BA. She is what she is and that is what one sees.She grew up as WA. So she is and so what.
Posted: Wed 07 Oct 2009 20:08 Post subject: Re: Whites who recently learn of black ancestry and "one drop"
Re:CarolChanning.
She is a WA. She has gone as WA.Her mother was WA. So her father was "light-complexion" BA. He had to look WA and not " light-skinned"
in order to pass. As far her having a BA child, impossible if she married a WA or even having a child who looks like me.
Could her kids have taken after the one paternal grandparent who was some percentage BA ? No.
'
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