Hmm. I wonder if she tells her kids that they are "light-skinned Blacks," the way her mother told her. Just a thought. You can carry that only so far before people think that you are nuts.
Soledad has always looked stereotypically Latina IMO. At least with her hair relaxed. I've seen an early photo of her when she was a child, http://web.njit.edu/~ronkowit/Soledad/soledad95.html and she looked a little browner with undeniably afro-textured hair. You could say she looked "light-skinned" black then.
Her eldest daughter Sophia as anyone can see is indistinguishable from every other white person at that gathering. I don't believe Soledad tells or plans to tell her predominantly white children that they're light-skinned blacks or even black for that matter. Her daughters are at an age where they can see for themselves that they and their little brothers "blend into a crowd" so to speak.
Most likely her kids are probably going to grow up viewing themselves white (with a black grandmother}, multiethnic, or multiracial like Soledad views herself.
Quote:
"I define myself as multiracial," she says. "Definitions are important to other people. They make no difference to my life."
Born: September 19,1966 in Saint James, NY. Christened Maria de la Soledad O'Brien.
Her first name follows a Spanish tradition of naming a child for Our Lady of Solitude.
Her parents are a biracial couple. They met at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore and married in 1959 when an interracial marriage was still illegal in some places.
"You know, my dad is Australian, but his parents are Irish, hence the surname 'O'Brien'. In fact, everyone keeps asking me "great last name - but what's with the first name?"
Her father, Edward, is a mechanical engineering professor and was originally from Toowoomba, Australia.
Her mother, Estella, is black of Cuban heritage. She emigrated to the U.S. in the 1950's and was a teacher in New York City.
Soledad was raised in Smithtown, a small North Shore town on Long Island, New York. She attended Smithtown High School East.
She has three sisters and two brothers - the fifth child of the six. They are a Harvard family. Maria, (1961), a law professor, went to Harvard undergrad. Cecilia, (1962), an attorney, is Harvard Law. Tony, (1963), heads a documents company, is Harvard and Harvard Law; Estela, (1964), an eye surgeon, is Harvard. And the baby, Orestes, (1968), an anesthesiologist, is Harvard Med. Soledad attended Harvard and Radcliffe College, studying English and American Studies and taking a lot of science courses including summer classes at the State University of NY at Stonybrook "with the crazed notion of becoming a doctor." She was 21 (a senior) when she left school for a job in news. She returned to Harvard in 2000 while pregnant and completed her degree.
"There's not an O'Brien Library at Harvard, but with all our tuitions, there should be," she said.
"It was not our parents' dream that we go to Harvard. It doesn't seem odd that we all went there. We were all excellent students in high school. We worked hard, and we were very competitive."
Posted: Tue 06 Dec 2005 14:45 Post subject: CNN's O'Brien embraces her own diversity
Quote:
Soledad has always looked stereotypically Latina IMO. At least with her hair relaxed. I've seen an early photo of her when she was a child, http://web.njit.edu/~ronkowit/Soledad/soledad95.html and she looked a little browner with undeniably afro-textured hair. You could say she looked "light-skinned" black then.
New York is chock full of Latinos who look the way she did when she was younger. Many of them look like light skinned blacks and vice versa.
Posted: Tue 06 Dec 2005 16:03 Post subject: "Nuts" and the ODR
Frank said:
Quote:
Hmm. I wonder if she tells her kids that they are "light-skinned Blacks," the way her mother told her. Just a thought. You can carry that only so far before people think that you are nuts.
Unfortunately, these "nuts" are very indulged by the gatekeepers of the media. Note this letter and reply in the popular successor to "Dear Abby" column:
Quote:
RELEASE: FRIDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2005
Dear Prudence: I am black, with a light complexion, as is my immediate family -- without any white parent or grandparent. I have often been in the position of going to school or working in an almost entirely white environment where whites have had little personal contact with blacks.
Often they will tell me they thought I was Native American or Mexican. I have no trouble with this, but some will often say to me in a tone that suggests a compliment, "You don't look black," which I find insulting. Light or not, I am black, and resent any implication that I should be proud that I do not "look black." I usually respond, "Blacks are both light and dark, so I do look black."
I'm not sure the people who make these comments realize it is insulting, and sometimes I want to say, "You don't look white to me," as many whites look like my family and we are all black. Any suggestions on handling this? -- Black and Proud
Dear Black: To give you an informed answer with knowledge and experience behind it, Prudie checked with Karen Grigsby Bates. She is a fair-skinned black journalist who's spent much of her career writing about race. When she read your letter, she said she rolled her eyes and thought, "Been there; living that." She borrowed Prudie's cap, and here's her answer:
"If you want to be bothered with broadening people's cultural landscapes, you could say something like, 'Well, black is a very flexible color in America. We run the gamut.' Then leave it at that. Or you could elaborate: 'My whole family is black and everyone is a different color. It's very common.' Personally, I like the second option. Should you be in snarky-educational mode, try: 'Funny, you don't look white to me -- but maybe that's because you look so much like one of my favorite aunts.'" -- Prudie, progressively
I found this article to be disturbing, but still worth reading. Of course there's nothing new mentioned in it, and the ODR is of course supported as would be expected...
The sooner that bi/multiracial identifications (as opposed to using the term "light-skinned blacks") are publicly accepted by society - and especially black society - the better IMO.
Yeah, I know hell will freeze over first...
My husband and I are trying for a second child, and if it's a girl, I damn well won't be indoctrinating her into believing she's a lighter, straighter haired, possibly light eyed (my son has blue eyes) version of a black woman. We're going to tell her the truth. She's a beautiful mixture of multiple heritages (German/Afro-American/Creek Indian) that combined to create her unique look and hopefully outlook on life. And, that she has no obligation to prove to the "black community" that she's "really black" because she's not.
I feel that sometimes when bi/multiracial (direct and generational) people - ESPECIALLY women - are brought up to believe that they must only identify as purely black, they may feel obligated somehow (out of guilt) to overcompensate for their lack of blackness gene wise by being "ultra blacks". They may find themselves spouting Afrocentric beliefs they may truly not even believe in, and limiting their dating/marriage options to only blacks (when they may deep down feel more kinship with/attraction to whites, hispanics, etc...) to avoid being labled "sellout", "passer", "white wannabe", and other such nonsense.
But the thing is, if one considers themself to be bi/multiracial (instead of black), the guilt feelings are greatly reduced (if not eliminated) I can imagine.
If one is not "black" to begin with (but instead bi/multiracial), why should one care about what the "black community" thinks about the color of ones partner/spouse?
If one is not "black" to begin with, why should one feel guilty/angry about some white folks feeling "more comfortable" around you than your "average black"?(I find it only natural since most people regardless of "race" feel more at ease with those they find some similarities with)
And lastly, if one is not "black" to begin with, why view your very possibly lighter skin tone, straighter hair, and ambiguous (or white) facial features, as a genetic mistake/quirk/anomaly/mask?
I believe some undeniably black supporters of the ODR deep down may be afraid of bi/multiracial people (and "light-skinned" blacks) asking themselves these questions.
Then again, maybe I'm completely off. And off my rocker!lol
Just thinking out loud...
Last edited by zsana on Wed 07 Dec 2005 03:42; edited 3 times in total
Posted: Tue 06 Dec 2005 20:30 Post subject: "Dear Prudence"
Zsana, you describe the situation very well. Care to write to "Dear Prudence" and set her straight?
Quote:
Dear Prudence is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers' daughter. All letters must be sent via e-mail to dearprudence@creators.com. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered.
Yeah - It cracks me up, that famous line, "Well, black people come in all colors."
Um, DUH - "White" people come in all colors too, in our silly arbitrary nonsense of drawing the color line around Europe - and then having to expand it as more groups come to America.
Posted: Tue 06 Dec 2005 22:29 Post subject: Misery loves company.
This quote from the "The New Berlin Wall" (in the International section) could be applied to Mulatto Elite supporters of the ODR:
Quote:
"The mothers are looking for solidarity by demanding that their daughters submit to the same hardship and suffering." By disobeying them, the daughter calls into question her mother's life - her silent submission to the ritual of forced marriage. ..
That's why these pretend "blacks" hate those who would give them freedom of choice. If most "whites" are NOT purity-loving Nazis who hate and despise "black blood" in otherwise white or nonblack people, then all their suffering was for nothing. They want the ODR to remain so their suffering can be validated. They want to be assured that it was not in vain - but it was. Karen Grisby Bates wants a solidarity of suffering from others. To be told, "I don't have to suffer; I'm not black," is seen as the equivalent of telling her that she's been a damn fool all her life.
Care to write to "Dear Prudence" and set her straight?
This is something to consider...
I believe whites like Margo Howard - who I'm sure consider themselves to be open minded and non-racist (and I'm not saying she's not)-often think it's the "correct" thing to take the advice/wisdom of the known black (and mulatto elite) intelligentsia (most of whom are Die Hard supporters of the ODR) regarding racial issues.
They are considered the "experts" regarding issues related to racism, racial identity, and bi/multiracialness. Even when the "knowledge" received conflicts with common sense or is a downright lie.
That's why I'm happy this OneDropRule forum exists. Alternative voices get a chance to be heard.
I've always been confused as to why Soledads mother (Cuban), was so adamant about calling her children "black"; that contradicts traditional Cuban notions of race. I doubt that she grew up in Cuba calling mixed race people black.
Posted: Wed 07 Dec 2005 10:21 Post subject: Re: "Nuts" and the ODR
Powell wrote:
Unfortunately, these "nuts" are very indulged by the gatekeepers of the media. Note this letter and reply in the popular successor to "Dear Abby" column:
Quote:
RELEASE: FRIDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2005
Dear Prudence: I am black, with a light complexion, as is my immediate family -- without any white parent or grandparent. I have often been in the position of going to school or working in an almost entirely white environment where whites have had little personal contact with blacks.
Often they will tell me they thought I was Native American or Mexican. I have no trouble with this, but some will often say to me in a tone that suggests a compliment, "You don't look black," which I find insulting. Light or not, I am black, and resent any implication that I should be proud that I do not "look black." I usually respond, "Blacks are both light and dark, so I do look black."
I'm not sure the people who make these comments realize it is insulting, and sometimes I want to say, "You don't look white to me," as many whites look like my family and we are all black. Any suggestions on handling this? -- Black and Proud
Dear Black: To give you an informed answer with knowledge and experience behind it, Prudie checked with Karen Grigsby Bates. She is a fair-skinned black journalist who's spent much of her career writing about race. When she read your letter, she said she rolled her eyes and thought, "Been there; living that." She borrowed Prudie's cap, and here's her answer:
"If you want to be bothered with broadening people's cultural landscapes, you could say something like, 'Well, black is a very flexible color in America. We run the gamut.' Then leave it at that. Or you could elaborate: 'My whole family is black and everyone is a different color. It's very common.' Personally, I like the second option. Should you be in snarky-educational mode, try: 'Funny, you don't look white to me -- but maybe that's because you look so much like one of my favorite aunts.'" -- Prudie, progressively
I fail to see whats "nutty" about the letter, or the responce. The letter is about a black person that gets rude comments about her appearance from others, and "Prudence" simply recomends advice from another black person with the same experience.
I found this article to be disturbing, but still worth reading. Of course there's nothing new mentioned in it, and the ODR is of course supported as would be expected...
The article is about colorism amongst African Americans. It does not mention any bi/multi-racial people, nor does it promote imposing a black identify on multi-racial people. In what way is it supporting the ODR?
Quote:
Then again, maybe I'm completely off. And off my rocker! lol
Care to write to "Dear Prudence" and set her straight?
This is something to consider...
I believe whites like Margo Howard - who I'm sure consider themselves to be open minded and non-racist (and I'm not saying she's not)-often think it's the "correct" thing to take the advice/wisdom of the known black (and mulatto elite) intelligentsia (most of whom are Die Hard supporters of the ODR) regarding racial issues.
Why was it incorrect to give the advice of someone that could identify with the person who wrote the letter??
What would have been better advice to give to that person?
Quote:
They are considered the "experts" regarding issues related to racism, racial identity, and bi/multiracialness. Even when the "knowledge" received conflicts with common sense or is a downright lie.
The letter and the responce, were not about bi/multiracial people, racial identity, or anything of the sort.
The person who wrote the letter, was asking for advice on how to deal with rude, ignorant comments from other people about her appearance. Thats it.
I wrote to both authors as follows, and will wait for their reply.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaime Pretell
To: prudence@slate.com ; 2karens@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 6:59 AM
Subject: Can I identify as mixed without someone else telling me what i am?
http://www.slate.com/id/2128570/
I read your response to a lady who was sick and tired of being questioned about her Blackness. I know many of my friends have the same problem from the other side of the wall. They are constantly questioned their mixed identity. Being told they should only identify as Black. I will give you my perspective and then a question. Hopefully you will help address this issue just as much as you did for this lady.
I think the biggest problem is this constant claim of Black as a race. Black is not a race. It is an umbrella term that has been applied to various dark skinned groups around the world, and their descendants. Certain populations have adopted the name for their ethnic identity as they forged new Creole cultures in the era of slavery. More importantly, because of the one drop rule after slavery, most people of mixed ethnic backgrounds were forced to stay within this ethnic group. Thus other ethnic groups of mixed ancestry disappeared into two major ethnic groups of Black and White. The majority joined black and some survived on their own or incredibly identified as White.
The fact is that with time the black ethnicity has become a very colorful and admixed population. Not as admixed as other populations such as Latin America though. For this reason higher admixture mixed phenotypes are more prevalent in Latino populations. That is why many light skinned Blacks are asked if they are Latino at times.
If this issue is addressed as an ethnic question and not a racial one, it is quite simple to explain. Blacks and other ethnicities can share many similar ancestries. Thus they can look the same, but belong to different identities based on their upbringing and culture. Those raised in a Black community will identify as Black. Those raised elsewhere will not. Neither is wrong. But if someone tries to claim light skinned Blacks are black in some racial sense, then people wonder why Latinos are not Black or why mixed children who identify with both their parents aren't just black. After all, they read somewhere that All these people are racially black, no matter what their upbringing.
So, in your opinion, how should mixed kids who do not identify as Black because they were not raised in a Black community but a multi-ethnic family, who have African ancestry, who don't deny ANY of their ancestry address claims that they are just Black?
Posted: Wed 07 Dec 2005 12:46 Post subject: Re: Misery loves company.
Powell wrote:
That's why these pretend "blacks" hate those who would give them freedom of choice. If most "whites" are NOT purity-loving Nazis who hate and despise "black blood" in otherwise white or nonblack people, then all their suffering was for nothing. They want the ODR to remain so their suffering can be validated.
What makes you think such persons (those you deem "pretend" blacks) dont think they have the freedom of choice?? In addition why do you critisize their identity as being rooted in some kind of "suffering", or depending on the ODR??
Bates and people like her identify with their families(black people), just like anybody else; its that simple.
Quote:
They want to be assured that it was not in vain - but it was. Karen Grisby Bates wants a solidarity of suffering from others. To be told, "I don't have to suffer; I'm not black," is seen as the equivalent of telling her that she's been a damn fool all her life.
yeah....obviously Bates is a fool for identifying with the ethnicity of her family and calling herself "black".
Last edited by Phil345 on Wed 07 Dec 2005 18:27; edited 1 time in total
I wrote to both authors as follows, and will wait for their reply. ...
Jeepers, Jaime, have gotten married or something? You used to be a lot more acerbic. This letter is very tactful. You have mellowed.
I look forward to reading the reply. So far I am leaning towards Phil345 in the debate above. But if the reply jumps all over your butt for challenging the ODR, I am switching sides.
I've always been confused as to why Soledads mother (Cuban), was so adamant about calling her children "black"; that contradicts traditional Cuban notions of race. I doubt that she grew up in Cuba calling mixed race people black.
Yeah. It is weird. It makes you wonder if (1) the interviewer misunderstood or (2) Soledad was putting a PC spin on her tale to make Black viewers more comfortable with her on-screen presence.
I've always been confused as to why Soledads mother (Cuban), was so adamant about calling her children "black"; that contradicts traditional Cuban notions of race. I doubt that she grew up in Cuba calling mixed race people black.
Yeah. It is weird. It makes you wonder if (1) the interviewer misunderstood or (2) Soledad was putting a PC spin on her tale to make Black viewers more comfortable with her on-screen presence.
Another possibility....She has spent a considerable time in the U.S., outside of an area with a substantial Caribbean Latino population-college in Baltimore, etc., and as a person who has a phenotype that falls within the range of what we in the U.S. see as black-looking, over time, she simply considered herself black (and was possibly considered black by others) and eventually embraced American conceptions of race. Many immigrants do. Many people in my family have done the same thing.
Here in Washington DC I've met a few Latinos who have an appearance similar to Lenny Kravitz's or Shemar Moore's who don't feel Latino. Cuban American actress Christina Milian who is from Waldorf Maryland (in Prince Georges' County) comes to mind.
Here Latino means mestizo, Indian or Southern European white. People who "look black" are often not perceived as Latino by Latinos and non-Latinos; they are seen as "simply" black. Consequently, many simply identify as black, African American, even Caribbean (if they're of Caribbean ancestry).
O'Brian's mother may have had similar experiences. If she and the others I mentioned above grew up in New York City, Miami (?), Philadelphia, or any of the other metropolitan areas that have large numbers of Caribbean Hispanics, they probably would not see themselves as just black.
'
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