The Afro-Latino connection: can this group be the bridge to a broadbased black-Hispanic alliance?
CID WILSON HAD HIS FIRST UGLY RUN-IN WITH RACISM AS A TEENAGER ON A FRIDAY AFTERNOON. "One kid threw something at another kid," Wilson recalls. "The kid actually thought it was me." One of only 11 minorities in a senior student body of 300, Wilson recalls being called the "n-word" by the white teen.
"I was so infuriated with him," says the New York native. "The following Monday--its something I'm not proud of--I looked for him and got into an actual physical altercation. That whole weekend, it was just building up inside, how angry I was."
Justifiably angry, Wilson's father was the voice of reason. James A. Wilson, a medical doctor, counseled his young son to handle racism in a more constructive way in the future: demand more of yourself and work twice as hard as your white counterparts.
Now a 33-year-old Paramus, New Jersey, resident, Wilson took his father's words to heart and worked hard to excel. A former market analyst at Salomon Smith Barney, he is now a senior analyst at Whitaker Securities, a boutique investment bank, where he tracks past performance and future prospects of publicly traded stocks. Politically active, the NAACP member hopes to run for office someday. But the sting of that racial slur remains to this day.
Wilson's tale seems a familiar one to African Americans, except he's not African American. He's un puro (pure) Latino, whose parents immigrated to the United States from the Dominicans Republic. Wilson, president of the Dominican American National Roundtable, is one of millions of America's Afro-Latinos who belong to both of the United States' largest minority groups. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, approximately 1.7 million of the 38.8 million Hispanics identified themselves as both Hispanic and of African descent, yet many believe this number to be much higher--closer to 3.9 million. (More than 42% of all Latino respondents marked a box labeled "some other race" on the Census form.) Among the more famous Afro-Latinos: Dominican baseball superstar Sammy Sosa, retired Puerto Rican boxing champ Felix Trinidad, and the recently deceased Cuban salsa icon Celia Cruz.
And while historically attempts by Latinos and African Americans to forge economic, political, and social alliances have yielded lackluster results, it can be argued that this group--many of whom feel comfortable in both the black and Latino communities--could be the key to a much-needed business and political link between America's largest minority groups.
It's estimated that between 10% and 80% of Latinos who hail from countries like Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Colombia, Panama, Venezuela, Belize, and the U.S. territory of Puerto Rico have African ancestry. As the slave trade proliferated in the Americas from the 1500s through the 1800s, Europeans used Caribbean ports as a hub to transfer African slaves throughout North, Central, and South America, as part of the African Diaspora.
And some say Afro-Latinos have as much or more in common with African Americans as their lighter-skinned countrymen. Many regularly face discrimination and battle racism, both in the United States and in their native countries. Such disparaging terms as negrito (little black one), pelo malo (bad hair), or worse are commonplace for this group that often wields little political and economic power in their homelands. Poverty as well as poor educational and employment opportunities are high on the list of concerns to both African Americans and Afro-Latinos. However, the beginnings of a civil rights movement for blacks throughout Central and South America has come about fairly recently and Afro-Latinos are beginning to make some progress.
"In essence, white Latinos discriminate against black Latinos just like [white Americans] may do here," says Harry C. Alford, president and CEO of the National Black Chamber of Commerce. In order to effect change, Alford believes, "The 40 million blacks in this country need to start communicating better with the 135 million blacks in the Caribbean and South America."
The good news is, this group is beginning to come together to build a sense of pride in their African heritage by forming organizations and teaching others that Latinos crone in all shades. "Blacks have already walked twice the miles we have walked," says Grace Williams, an Afro-Latino who is president of the Atlanta chapter of the National Society of Hispanic MBAs (NSHMBA). "We're starting to walk right now."
Interestingly, efforts to increase awareness regarding Afro-Latino culture and plight can be found on the campuses of historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs). At Howard University, Nadine Bascombe heads Cimarrones, a 50-member black student union of Caribbean, Central, and South Americans that recently expanded to include a chapter at Benedict College in South Carolina. Before Afro-Latinos can even begin to link the black-Hispanic communities, more Afro-Latinos must embrace their African heritage. "Within the population of what are considered Afro-Latinos, not all people identify with being black, so they'll join the Latino organizations because it's more of an assimilation of being white," says Bascombe, a junior. "It seems that if you relate yourself to being black it's something negative, so with that problem existing within the Afro-Latino population, not too many people run towards having an organization with that name."
Another HBCU, Spelman College, recently hosted a series of lectures, performances, and a conference looking at the African Diaspora and its impact on the Americas. A visiting group of Afro-Latinos from the Spanish-speaking nations of South America discussed their similarities based on common African heritages. "It seems [to be] apparent that Afro-Latins of various sorts see [African Americans] as role models with respect to political participation and economic success," says Sheila S. Walker, a professor of anthropology, who organized the event. "Their consciousness raising and civil rights movements were inspired by their knowledge of ours."
There's no denying the merits of bringing these groups together from a business standpoint. "If we were to combine the African American and Hispanic community, it means a purchasing power block of $1 trillion dollars," says George Herrera, former president and CEO of the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. "That kind of purchasing power and that kind of strength can basically make industry come to a standstill ... power within our communities lays in our discretionary purchasing with corporate America, to be able to change the corporate landscape and change the dialogue of how corporate America deals with our communities." Herrera says this power can be used to affect corporate governance, procurement, and employment opportunities.
Currently, the state of black Hispanic relations in the United States is a mixed picture. Surely the media frenzy surrounding the emergence of the Latino population as the largest minority group has lent itself to a contest like atmosphere between the racial groups. There's also no denying that old prejudices and rivalries remain on both sides--bringing numerous challenges to overcome before any alliance can be formed.
In order for an alliance to succeed, a national agenda would have to be created that includes such issues as diversity, inclusion, and access to economic, political, and educational resources, according to Nicolas C. Vaca, a Harvard Law School graduate and author of The Presumed Alliance: The Unspoken Conflict Between Latinos and Blacks and What it Means for America (Rayo; $24.95). "Let's figure out exactly what each party needs and wants, what is important for each group, and then work out a plan for achieving it without the rose colored glasses," he recommends.
Efforts for alliances are being made on the political front. Members of the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation hosted members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, Congressional Black Caucus, and the Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus in a small beach resort in Puerto Rico in October 2003. Politicians were invited for a weekend of social activities as well as political dialogue designed to foster cross-cultural understanding and facilitate the forging of common political agendas. This was the second gathering: the group met for the first time in 2002 at a New Orleans retreat.
"In order for us to work together and dialogue, we have to be able to interact, to get to know each other," says Congressman Ciro D. Rodriguez (D-TX), chair of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. Rodriguez adds that the caucuses have worked to jointly draft a minority legislative health initiative that will be presented to Sens. Daschle and Kennedy.
In the meantime hopefully, Afro-Latinos will continue on the path to becoming an economic and political force, and by doing so, bring the Hispanic and black communities together. This is something Cid Wilson hopes to see. "We can honestly say we know what it's like to feel racism and discrimination--on the Latino and the African American sides," he says. "The way to build bridges is to get involved in both communities."
Whether these bridges are eventually built remains to be seen. Hailing from different countries with different cultures, the movement toward a stronger sense of Afro-Latino unity and identity must pick up speed. There is no doubt that challenges will abound, but the potential rewards are too promising to dismiss.
BLACK ENTERPRISE spoke with several prominent Afro-Latinos to better understand the issues they face daily. Here's what they had to say:
MISCONCEPTIONS IN THE MEDIA
Cuban-American actress Gina Torres' television credits include recurring roles on the FOX drama 24 and ABC's Alias, as well as appearances on Law & Order, The Agency, and Angel. In nearly all her roles, however, she plays an African American. She hopes to take on more Latina roles in the future.
"I've gone out for several [Latina] roles," says Torres, who recently had cameo appearances in the highly success fill Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Revolutions films. "It has not been my experience thus far that the people that have the power to make those [casting] decisions are ready to embrace a Latina who is dark. They like to keep it simple. You don't want complicated when you're trying to sell gum. You want to say 'that is a black person, that is a Latin person, that is a white person. Everybody looks like they came from where they're supposed to come from. Let's not complicate that.'"
The Bronx-raised Torres admits that she gets annoyed when people assume she's not a flail Latino. "That it's so out of the realm of possibility that somebody like me can be all Latina. Both my parents were horn in Cuba; they came over in the mid-50s before the revolution."
Torres, who married Laurence Fishburne in 2002 after meeting on the set of Matrix Reloaded, views her work as contributing to the struggle and making a difference. "I often say I didn't become black until I became a professional actress. It's when I realized I wasn't the Latina that America was comfortable with. I'm still not. Inside of the industry, it's changing slowly," she says. "The darkest Latina that first had name recognition was Rosie Perez, but because she sounded familiar no one made a big deal out of it. But the image the business perpetuates and is still most comfortable with is Jennifer Lopez, as was Rita Moreno in her day."
Torres says that she is comfortable with serving as a bridge between the black and Latino cultures. "As a people, we are both certainly much stronger if we align ... we all want our children to grow up in a better place and to have better opportunities than we did." she says. "We all want the same things, we all hit a similar wall in terms of being viewed [against] standards that were set up so long ago, that we continue to bust out of and redefine. I am proof that it works."
At an early age, Maria Perez-Brown learned to live in two worlds. Born in Puerto Rico and moving to Brooklyn at the age of 6, she lived in what she describes as a segregated neighborhood. "One block was all Puerto Rican and the other block was all black," she recalls. "I felt early on that my identifying quality was not only that I was Latina, but that I was a black Latina flora an urban experience, with much more in common with my black friends from my neighborhood than with my Puerto Rican cousins from Puerto Rico."
In the early 1990s, Perez-Brown left the corporate world for the world of television. Now, Perez-Brown is a successful television producer. Among her credits is creating and producing Gullah Gullah Island, which ran for six years and was named one of the Top 10 television shows for children by TV Guide in 1996. Sire was also the creator and executive producer of Taina, a comedy series that aired from 2001 to 2002 on Nickelodeon about a 15-year-old Latina caught between two cultures: that of her traditional Latino family and the modern world of her school and friends. Perez-Brown uses her insight into both cultures to breathe life into characters that are believable and real.
"Sometimes you look at I all no shows and Latino characters in American television and you have a Jewish writer from the Upper East Side or from Los Angeles purporting to write what he thinks is a character that's Latino," she says. "What results many times is an insulting and very offensive stereotype of a character. At no point did they think it was important to find an authentic voice to write that character, or to integrate their writers, which is a pet peeve in my industry."
If African Americans and Latinos were to form lasting alliances via the Afro-Latino connection. Perez-Brown believes perception is the first thing that needs to be addressed. "The moment you start creating an image that these two groups are separate and have separate interests, you start creating a rift that allows people to divide and conquer," she says. "We can have, wield, 25% of the population--that is huge political power. That is a huge economic force that could make a much bigger difference than we could separately."
EMBRACING HIS HERITAGE
Though he's a BE 100s executive, Frank Mercado-Valdes remains rooted in the Latino community. The CEO of The Heritage Networks (No. 61 on the BE INDUSTRIAL/SERVICE 100 list with $61,5 million in revenue) often laments the fact that with the except inn hi" baseball programming, Afro-Latinos are nearly non-existent on television--even on Latino programs.
"In Latino broadcasting we're invisible because Latino broadcasting is Mexican-centric and Mexicans really don't have many blacks--they have certain pockets of Mexico where there are black populations who have been there a long time," he says. "But for the most part, you won't see black people in anything Mexican."
The son of Cuban and Puerto Rican parents says blacks in Latin America have an even lower standing socially than African Americans did prior to the Civil Rights Movement. "There never was a Dr. King, a Malcolm X, or a Stokely Carmichael," says the Bronx native. "So some of them come here and shed their identity and what happens is they merge with the greater white Latino community rather than with the black community."
His Latino heritage has influenced his business decisions. "My business niche was the African American community at first," he recalls. "I've changed the name of my company from The African Heritage Network to The Heritage Networks because I wanted to get into the perpetuation of English-language Latino programming." The syndicated network includes original properties such as Showtime at the Apollo, Livin" Large, and Weekend VIBE, as well as Resurrection Boulevard, a drama set in Los Angeles with a Latino cast.
And though he has seen prejudices firsthand in his industry, he still gets upset when he experiences it from the African American community. "I think the most frustrating thing comes from the black side of the equation--not the white. I've never had white people say 'you're not really black, are you?'" he says, "I'm always thinking 'when did I stop being black because my last name is Mercado or Valdes?'"
Mercado-Valdes says that the Afro-Latino community could be a powerful ally to both the African American and Latino communities once more civic, business, and political leaders emerge. "It's one of the things that I feel I should have been more active in that I libel like I haven't been," he confesses. "I spent so much time being black I forgot I was Latino."
COPYRIGHT 2004 Earl G. Graves Publishing Co., Inc.
COPYRIGHT 2004 Gale Group
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Other than the typical Afro-American mentality of assuming Afro-Latinos who don't identify as Black as denying their roots, I agree with this article. I think Afro-Latinos should be promoted to be proud of their African roots. I don't think we have to sell One Droppism to do that.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Tue 28 Feb 2006 18:42 Post subject: Realities
G-Man wrote:
It's estimated that between 10% and 80% of Latinos who hail from countries like Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Colombia, Panama, Venezuela, Belize, and the U.S. territory of Puerto Rico have African ancestry. As the slave trade proliferated in the Americas from the 1500s through the 1800s, Europeans used Caribbean ports as a hub to transfer African slaves throughout North, Central, and South America, as part of the African Diaspora.
Yes. Most of the Latinos that come from the Caribbean HAVE African ancestry because in Latin America, Blacks are concentrated in the Caribbean.
Quote:
"In essence, white Latinos discriminate against black Latinos just like [white Americans] may do here," says Harry C. Alford, president and CEO of the National Black Chamber of Commerce. In order to effect change, Alford believes, "The 40 million blacks in this country need to start communicating better with the 135 million blacks in the Caribbean and South America."
Well, 135 millions of Blacks, mainly Mulattoes by far, at least 90 live in Brazil where half the population is Mulatto of any color, and the rest 45 millions live in Hispanic America.
Quote:
"In Latino broadcasting we're invisible because Latino broadcasting is Mexican-centric and Mexicans really don't have many blacks--they have certain pockets of Mexico where there are black populations who have been there a long time," he says. "But for the most part, you won't see black people in anything Mexican."
Yes. Mexicans are white-mestizo-indians. That's their ethnicity. And they are more than 100 million people by themselves, alove.
The total population of Latin America is 560 million peoples. 400 millions live in Latin America
So, the diversity in Latin America is true. The largest majorities are Mestizo, Indian and White. And all the discusion about those percentages are proven by that well informed source.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Tue 28 Feb 2006 19:41 Post subject: READ
Salsassin wrote:
Again, you try to excuse the lack of visibility in other countries. Mexico has a big African presence that has been ignored.
Please. Read.
FROM THE ARTICLE wrote:
"In Latino broadcasting we're invisible because Latino broadcasting is Mexican-centric and Mexicans really don't have many blacks--they have certain pockets of Mexico where there are black populations who have been there a long time," he says. "But for the most part, you won't see black people in anything Mexican."
Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2006 03:33 Post subject: Re: READ
oevega wrote:
Salsassin wrote:
Again, you try to excuse the lack of visibility in other countries. Mexico has a big African presence that has been ignored.
Please. Read.
FROM THE ARTICLE wrote:
"In Latino broadcasting we're invisible because Latino broadcasting is Mexican-centric and Mexicans really don't have many blacks--they have certain pockets of Mexico where there are black populations who have been there a long time," he says. "But for the most part, you won't see black people in anything Mexican."
You won't see it represented. Not that it is not existent.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2006 13:53 Post subject: Re: READ
Salsassin wrote:
oevega wrote:
Salsassin wrote:
Again, you try to excuse the lack of visibility in other countries. Mexico has a big African presence that has been ignored.
Please. Read.
FROM THE ARTICLE wrote:
"In Latino broadcasting we're invisible because Latino broadcasting is Mexican-centric and Mexicans really don't have many blacks--they have certain pockets of Mexico where there are black populations who have been there a long time," he says. "But for the most part, you won't see black people in anything Mexican."
You won't see it represented. Not that it is not existent.
Salsassin:
Mexican population is mainly Mestizo. That is their identity as a nation.
However, as in any country Mexicans have minorities. In Mexico you can find Asians, Gypsies, Arabs and Blacks as well.
But would you believe one of the largest minorities in Mexico are Americans? And would you believe there are more Americans in Mexico than many of the other minorities?
So, if we start the celebrate minorities everywhere Mexicans should start to celebrate American pride as well, so they HAVE to make a big FIESTA at the 4th of July. Also, they have to celebrate Ramadan, the Chinese new year, and whatever party exists.
Mexicans are more practical. They focus in the Aztecs, because they are the ancestral people of their lands.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2006 15:34 Post subject: 10%
Salsassin wrote:
10% of the population is not pocket change. Go look at the genetic studies.
I have read it already, Salsassin.
It is not 10% at all. The percentage is perhaps 1% of the genetic markers, except in Costa Chica.
In other forums I have heared furious Mexicans claiming all this stuff about Afro-Mexico is just a complot against their own identity. Somehow I tend to agree.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Tue 28 Mar 2006 01:30 Post subject: The map
Salsassin wrote:
That is more than 1% sorry.
Hi,
Do you know that the map of Cheng Ho, is false?
Well, this other map belong to the same cathegory. lol.
We already discussed it. And I have already wrote to the author and he admite the numbers are in the margin of error!!
It seem you feel a country simply can't exist without Africans. The fact is many countries were colonized without Africans. Australia, New Zealand, Canada, for example, and several countries of the Americas like: Bolivia, Paraguay, Argentina, Costa Rica and Chile.
That's not the case of Peru, but you should remember that Peru was a country that developed making use of slaves, coolie labour and even Easter Islanders. Yes, we know it. But that's not the reality of other countries. The reality of Peru is similar to the countries north of it: Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela and Panama, all of which have Black minorities of around 5%, but that was not the case down south.
Sorry but that's the truth.
But because you are so insistent, I will add some Mexican oppinions. I preffer to believe them. Mexicans are poor but not idiots. If Mexicans say they don't have Blacks in Mexico why I should not trust them?
These are their oppinions. Some are strong...
Tal ves si no mencionan a los negros en historia mexicana! es porque
Nunca han existido en México por lo tanto en nuestra historia!
Serán un numero extremadamente reducido de personas!
Negras que vivan en México!
En verdad de México tuvo negros esclavos no se de donde sacan estas gentes que en México se trafico con esclavos negros!!!
En México no existió mezcla con negros! punto!
Si tu consideras a unos 20 0 30 negros que han llegado de centro América o de jamaica! que se han casado con personas mexicanas, como una gran mezcla, pues entonces si!
A mí no me molestaría que fuera cierto eso que tu as escrito y lo que dicen esos sitios RIDICULOS! de afromexicanos...
A mí me gustan todas las mujeres y amo a toda la gente!
Me encantaría que existiera una comunidad de negros,
Mejor dicho de negras en México! jeje
Pero no ay negros en México!
Si ay gente negra son en grupos extrañadamente pequeños!
Yo solo se que si ay algunos cuantos negros en los estados de Veracruz y guerrero! pero como son tan pocos tal ves por eso no se mencionan
En nuestra historia!
Los únicos negros mexicanos de los que tengo conocimiento son un negro que se llama JHONNY Laboriel , o algo así y Calimba, pero esos los
Conocidos por lo mismo porque como en México no existen los negros
A esos los usan como negocio como un espectáculo extraordinario!
Israel creo que tu sabes que lo que as escrito es mas que nada una fantasía as escrito esto con el solo afán de crear polémica!
Si no lo es dinos donde ay estas gentes negras en México?
Si de verdad fuera cierto todo eso en donde están las grandes concentraciones de negros en México?
Dime para ir haber si me conquisto algunas negrotas
Comment 2
Quote:
¡MOMENTO!
Yo crecí en México… ¡Y no hay negros en México!
En realidad, he visto a NO MÁS de 10 negros cubanos que han llegado a mi ciudad por cuestiones de trabajo y no recuerdo haber hablado con ninguno de ellos. En el tiempo que viví en la ciudad de México tampoco recuerdo haber visto a un solo negro y ni hablar en mis viajes al resto del país, puro prieto, ni un solo negro.
Pero entonces, ¿por qué tengo una compleja imagen mental sobre los negros? ¿Cómo es que conozco tanto sobre ellos? Sólo pregúntenme a mí o a cualquier persona de mi edad. Todos podemos tener amplias conversaciones con temas desde Malcolm X hasta O.J. Simpson.
Tal vez la pregunta no sea cómo sabemos de ellos porque la respuesta sería estúpida, larga y aburrida (igualito que las películas del Señor de los Anillos). Lo que realmente me gustaría saber es ¿cómo lograron los negros a meterse tanto en nuestra vida si en general nunca hemos convivido con gente “de color”?
¿Cómo es que a mí, mexicano de nacimiento, me daría miedo toparme con un negro en un callejón oscuro a media noche? (Acéptalo, a tí también te daría miedo). Tal vez sea simple de explicar que esto sucede dada la recepción sistemática de ideas negativas (etc, etc).
Puede ser verdad, ya que si Hollywood me ha enseñado algo (y yo quiero pensar que sí), es que:
LOS NEEEEGROS VIOOOOOOLAN.
LOS NEEEEGROS MAAAAATAN.
LOS NEEEEGROS NO TIENEN MAAAADRE.
LOS NEEEEGROS VAN A VIOLAR Y A MATAR A TU MAAAADRE.
Nota: Pensándolo bien, si me meto en un callejón oscuro a media noche, me merezco ser violado y asesinado por pendejo, ya sea por negros, blancos, indios navajo o menonitas-judíos del espacio… O todos juntos (ese sí que sería un buen anuncio de Benneton).
"Los negros fueron en México un grupo minoritario", anota en su estudio Aguirre Beltrán. "Representaron del 0.1 al 2 por ciento de su población colonial; el número de los introducidos por la Trata no fue mayor a 250 mil individuos en el curso de tres siglos". Pero los productos de su mezcla fueron considerables. Al finalizar la Colonia, añade, "el 10 por ciento de la población era considerado como francamente afromestizo".
0.1 al 2 al final de la colonia ! Eso sin contar los immigrantes que llegarian despues.
Como ves, los Mexicanos no estan muy de acuerdo contigo.
Posted: Tue 28 Mar 2006 01:47 Post subject: Re: The map
oevega wrote:
Como ves, los Mexicanos no estan muy de acuerdo contigo.
I hate to say it, Omar, but you are trying to refute peer-reviewed genetic studies done by Mexicans, with passionately held but unsubstantiated beliefs held by other Mexicans. This is an apples-to-oranges comparison.
Last edited by fwsweet on Tue 28 Mar 2006 15:12; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Tue 28 Mar 2006 02:03 Post subject: Re: The map
oevega wrote:
Do you know that the map of Cheng Ho, is false?
Well, this other map belong to the same cathegory. lol.
We already discussed it. And I have already wrote to the author and he admite the numbers are in the margin of error!!
Considering that is many studies. Iam curious about which authoryou are speaking of.
Quote:
It seem you feel a country simply can't exist without Africans. The fact is many countries were colonized without Africans. Australia, New Zealand, Canada, for example, and several countries of the Americas like: Bolivia, Paraguay, Argentina, Costa Rica and Chile.
Nice strawman. I know plentyof countries without Africans. But neither mexico, nor Chile are one of them..
Quote:
That's not the case of Peru, but you should remember that Peru was a country that developed making use of slaves, coolie labour and even Easter Islanders. Yes, we know it. But that's not the reality of other countries. The reality of Peru is similar to the countries north of it: Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela and Panama, all of which have Black minorities of around 5%, but that was not the case down south.
Peru had less slaves than Mexico. And percentageis irrelevant. Chile had an African presence.
Quote:
Sorry but that's the truth.
Yes it is. Sorry you can't see it.
Quote:
But because you are so insistent, I will add some Mexican oppinions. I preffer to believe them. Mexicans are poor but not idiots. If Mexicans say they don't have Blacks in Mexico why I should not trust them?
These are their oppinions. Some are strong...
From:
http://www.conocimientosweb.net/mestizos/ftopic141.html
Comment 1:
Quote:
Tal ves si no mencionan a los negros en historia mexicana! es porque
Nunca han existido en México por lo tanto en nuestra historia!
Serán un numero extremadamente reducido de personas!
Negras que vivan en México!
En verdad de México tuvo negros esclavos no se de donde sacan estas gentes que en México se trafico con esclavos negros!!!
En México no existió mezcla con negros! punto!
Si tu consideras a unos 20 0 30 negros que han llegado de centro América o de jamaica! que se han casado con personas mexicanas, como una gran mezcla, pues entonces si!
A mí no me molestaría que fuera cierto eso que tu as escrito y lo que dicen esos sitios RIDICULOS! de afromexicanos...
A mí me gustan todas las mujeres y amo a toda la gente!
Me encantaría que existiera una comunidad de negros,
Mejor dicho de negras en México! jeje
Pero no ay negros en México!
Si ay gente negra son en grupos extrañadamente pequeños!
Yo solo se que si ay algunos cuantos negros en los estados de Veracruz y guerrero! pero como son tan pocos tal ves por eso no se mencionan
En nuestra historia!
Los únicos negros mexicanos de los que tengo conocimiento son un negro que se llama JHONNY Laboriel , o algo así y Calimba, pero esos los
Conocidos por lo mismo porque como en México no existen los negros
A esos los usan como negocio como un espectáculo extraordinario!
Israel creo que tu sabes que lo que as escrito es mas que nada una fantasía as escrito esto con el solo afán de crear polémica!
Si no lo es dinos donde ay estas gentes negras en México?
Si de verdad fuera cierto todo eso en donde están las grandes concentraciones de negros en México?
Dime para ir haber si me conquisto algunas negrotas
Comment 2
Quote:
¡MOMENTO!
Yo crecí en México… ¡Y no hay negros en México!
En realidad, he visto a NO MÁS de 10 negros cubanos que han llegado a mi ciudad por cuestiones de trabajo y no recuerdo haber hablado con ninguno de ellos. En el tiempo que viví en la ciudad de México tampoco recuerdo haber visto a un solo negro y ni hablar en mis viajes al resto del país, puro prieto, ni un solo negro.
Pero entonces, ¿por qué tengo una compleja imagen mental sobre los negros? ¿Cómo es que conozco tanto sobre ellos? Sólo pregúntenme a mí o a cualquier persona de mi edad. Todos podemos tener amplias conversaciones con temas desde Malcolm X hasta O.J. Simpson.
Tal vez la pregunta no sea cómo sabemos de ellos porque la respuesta sería estúpida, larga y aburrida (igualito que las películas del Señor de los Anillos). Lo que realmente me gustaría saber es ¿cómo lograron los negros a meterse tanto en nuestra vida si en general nunca hemos convivido con gente “de color”?
¿Cómo es que a mí, mexicano de nacimiento, me daría miedo toparme con un negro en un callejón oscuro a media noche? (Acéptalo, a tí también te daría miedo). Tal vez sea simple de explicar que esto sucede dada la recepción sistemática de ideas negativas (etc, etc).
Puede ser verdad, ya que si Hollywood me ha enseñado algo (y yo quiero pensar que sí), es que:
LOS NEEEEGROS VIOOOOOOLAN.
LOS NEEEEGROS MAAAAATAN.
LOS NEEEEGROS NO TIENEN MAAAADRE.
LOS NEEEEGROS VAN A VIOLAR Y A MATAR A TU MAAAADRE.
Nota: Pensándolo bien, si me meto en un callejón oscuro a media noche, me merezco ser violado y asesinado por pendejo, ya sea por negros, blancos, indios navajo o menonitas-judíos del espacio… O todos juntos (ese sí que sería un buen anuncio de Benneton).
¡En fin!
"Los negros fueron en México un grupo minoritario", anota en su estudio Aguirre Beltrán. "Representaron del 0.1 al 2 por ciento de su población colonial; el número de los introducidos por la Trata no fue mayor a 250 mil individuos en el curso de tres siglos". Pero los productos de su mezcla fueron considerables. Al finalizar la Colonia, añade, "el 10 por ciento de la población era considerado como francamente afromestizo".
0.1 al 2 al final de la colonia ! Eso sin contar los immigrantes que llegarian despues.
Como ves, los Mexicanos no estan muy de acuerdo contigo.
Your choice of quote speak to your racism.
I bet you these mexicans would never agree with those posts.
And lets not forget:
Buffalo Soldiers
The 1889 photograph of Buffalo Soldier scouts includes then employed and retired members of the Seminole "Black Indian" nation, a large number whom worked for the U.S. army after earlier being employed in the Mexican army. The Seminoles originally came from Florida, where they were a branch of the Creek nation, distinguished from other Creeks in their acceptance of runaway African slaves who had toiled in the British colonies that became the U.S. The initial Blacks within the Seminole villages were bound to work for the Seminoles in a relationship that was described as slavery without whips, chains, and with right of the bondspeople to farm their own land. By the time of the 1835-1838 Second Seminole War, during which United States tried to conquor the Seminoles, they were a largely mixed race nation in which those of African heritage took many important decision making positions. Dembo Factor, one of the Black Seminoles who fought in that war is in the above photo. He is the elderly gentleman with the white beard.
The 1835-1838 war ended with the Black Indians reluctantly agreeing to leave Florida and settle in the Indian Territory of Oklahoma. During the 1840s they were harassed by other Indian nations of the territory who considered the Seminoles to be Blacks and subject to capture and sale to whites. Around 1850 the Seminoles began exploring the Mexico/Texas border region with the hope of resettling in Mexico where slavery had been abolished in 1829 by decree of Vicente Guerrero. The first efforts of the Seminoles to resettle were unsuccessful. The Mexico/Texas border area was controlled by the natives of the area, the Comanche nation, which was opposed to all outsiders. The Seminoles developed methods of fighting off the Comanches and settlements were created in the Mexican state of Coahuila. In 1856 Mexican President Commonfort hired Seminole fighters to protect Coahuila and other border areas from Comanches, and also from the raids by white outlaws from the United States.
After the U.S. Civil War and the abolition of slavery, many Seminoles returned to the U.S. where their "Indian fighting" abilities were acknowledged, and they became soldiers in the U.S. Army. The Indians gave them the name "Buffalo Soldiers" because the matted African hair resembled the matted hair of buffalos. Veterans of the Civil War and other non-Seminole African Americans were also in Indian fighting U.S. army contingents known as "Buffalo Soldiers."
Black Seminoles have continued to live along the Rio Grande river. A notable Mexican Seminole town in Coahuila is named Nacimiento de los Negros.
The diaspora of people of African descent doesn't usually include large migrations of free people of color from Louisiana in the years preceding the Civil War. In fact, little is known about such groups except that they left the state seeking equality and freedon from racism in countries such as Haiti, France, Cuba and Mexico. It also is not known what became of their descendants, whether they maintained family and cultural ties with Louisiana or not, and how they identify ethnicallySee larger version of this map... today in their country of birth. What does their Louisana Creole heritage mean to them after a century and a half removed from it?
Mary Gehman began her research in 1998 into the hundreds of these families who, according to historic references, went to Mexico in the late 1850s. She located them along the Gulf of Mexico between the port cities of Tampico and Veracruz. Through archival records and interviews with their descendants, who still live in those cities and in small villages along the coast, she was able to construct a data base of names and a picture of what their lives were like in the 19th century.
Although they no longer speak French and have in fact lost all contact with Louisiana and their Creole roots, the Mexicans continue to cook some of the dishes handed down through generations and intermarry and socialize in many cases with others of the same heritage. They were surprised to hear that their French surnames are still common in Louisiana and were excited to meet Gehman and learn a more factual account of their history.
Gehman published this article about her research in 2001 in New Orleans. She continues to visit Mexico every two years or so, and to collect names and contacts. She is working to reunite long lost relatives from both sides of the border. Her database is available to genealogists and anyone who is searching for family members who may have been part of the 19th century emigration to Mexico. She also lectures with a slide presentation of the material.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Tue 28 Mar 2006 02:28 Post subject: Re: The map
fwsweet wrote:
oevega wrote:
Como ves, los Mexicanos no estan muy de acuerdo contigo.
I hate to say it, Omar, but you trying to refute peer-reviewed genetic studies done by Mexicans, with passionately held but unsubstantiated beliefs held by other Mexicans. This is an apples-to-oranges comparison.
Hi Frank,
I don't know how to stop my friend Salsassin to jump to every single post I do. Well. I believe Mexicans know better than anyone else about Mexicans. Don't you?
The point is:
(1) the "science" of Genetic studies is in its very early stages. Those numbers that are shown in genetic studies are, at most, aproximations to reality, nothing more. I send a mail to the authors of that study and I receive evasives. The point is, to map a country like Mexico you will need hundred of thousands of sample, not just ten or twenty like is done today. Perhaps one day those studies will be done.
But those will just show genotypes, not cultural identities or roots.
(2) Showing a picture of one, two or three persons in a given country does not prove anything either. Salssasin believe that showing a Black person in Mexico will cause a great impact. No, because Mexico, like anywhere else, has minorities. Is like saying that Africa is Nordic because there are some Whites living in South Africa.
By that mechanism I could easily prove that Chile is an East Asian country, because in here there are around 200.000 orientals, and certains streets have so many Chinese restaurants that look like Hong Kong at night.
I hate the "hidden identity" game, and I suspect it is an organized movement that comes from abroad following some agenda. Why? I have no clue why.
Mexico and Chile are very similar countries in way of thinking and people, so I understand what they feel and they understand us. Somehow Mexico is closer to our people than our neighbours, so we know them.
My oppinion:
There were Blacks in Mexico or Chile: Yes there were.
Are there an important minority: No, they are not.
Do they left their mark in the history of Mexico: No.
Are there any Black personality in the history of Mexico: Yes, there are.
Posted: Tue 28 Mar 2006 03:18 Post subject: Re: The map
oevega wrote:
I don't know how to stop my friend Salsassin to jump to every single post I do. Well. I believe Mexicans know better than anyone else about Mexicans. Don't you?
Have you ever been to mexico? I have. Go to Guerrero or Veracruz
Quote:
The point is:
(1) the "science" of Genetic studies is in its very early stages. Those numbers that are shown in genetic studies are, at most, aproximations to reality, nothing more. I send a mail to the authors of that study and I receive evasives. The point is, to map a country like Mexico you will need hundred of thousands of sample, not just ten or twenty like is done today. Perhaps one day those studies will be done.
But those will just show genotypes, not cultural identities or roots.
Genotypes show roots. and samplings from multiple areas that are random do show trends. No matter how much you hate that fact.
Quote:
(2) Showing a picture of one, two or three persons in a given country does not prove anything either. Salssasin believe that showing a Black person in Mexico will cause a great impact. No, because Mexico, like anywhere else, has minorities. Is like saying that Africa is Nordic because there are some Whites living in South Africa.
Strawman as usual. I said Mexico had a significant African presence, not that it was Black.
Quote:
By that mechanism I could easily prove that Chile is an East Asian country, because in here there are around 200.000 orientals, and certains streets have so many Chinese restaurants that look like Hong Kong at night.
No but you can say there is an Asian presence.
Quote:
I hate the "hidden identity" game, and I suspect it is an organized movement that comes from abroad following some agenda. Why? I have no clue why.
Mexico and Chile are very similar countries in way of thinking and people, so I understand what they feel and they understand us. Somehow Mexico is closer to our people than our neighbours, so we know them.
Sorry, but having been in Mexico and Chile it is no closer to Chile than Peru.
Quote:
There were Blacks in Mexico or Chile: Yes there were.
Are there an important minority: No, they are not.
In Mexico they were
Quote:
Do they left their mark in the history of Mexico: No.
Yes it did, from presidency, to traditions, to dances, etc.
Quote:
Are there any Black personality in the history of Mexico: Yes, there are.
'
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