Germans are brainiest (but at least we're smarter than the French)
By Helen Nugent
BRITAIN and France have experienced long periods of conflict and rivalry but now victory in one area can be claimed: Britons are more intelligent than the French.
A new European league of IQ scores has ranked the British in eighth place, well above the French, who were 19th. According to Richard Lynn of the University of Ulster, Britons have an average IQ of 100. The French scored 94. But it is not all good news. Top of the table were the Germans, with an IQ of 107. The British were also beaten by the Netherlands, Poland, Sweden, Italy, Austria and Switzerland.
Professor Lynn, who caused controversy last year by claiming that men were more intelligent than women by about five IQ points on average, said that populations in the colder, more challenging environments of Northern Europe had developed larger brains than those in warmer climates further south. The average brain size in Northern and Central Europe is 1,320cc and in southeast Europe it is 1,312cc. “The early human beings in northerly areas had to survive during cold winters when there were no plant foods and they were forced to hunt big game,” he said. “The main environmental influence on IQ is diet, and people in southeast Europe would have had less of the proteins, minerals and vitamins provided by meat which are essential for brain development.”
He added that differences in intelligence across Britain could be attributed to bright people moving to London over hundreds of years. Adults in England and Wales have an IQ of 100.5, higher than Ireland and Scotland, both with 97. People living in London and the South East average 102. “Once in the capital they have settled and reared children, and these children have inherited their high intelligence and transmitted it to further generations.”
The pattern is repeated in other countries, Professor Lynn claimed. In France, IQ scores in Paris were much higher than those in rural areas.
Professor Lynn has spent three decades analysing thousands of test results to scrutinise the role of evolution in IQ. He has published his findings in a new book. Britons excel in another area of Professor Lynn’s research. He found that university students had, at 109, the second-highest undergraduate IQs in the world, beaten only by their US counterparts on 110.
Professor Lynn ascribes the differences between British and French intelligence levels to the results of military conflict. He described it as “a hitherto unrecognised law of history” that “the side with the higher IQ normally wins, unless they are hugely outnumbered, as Germany was after 1942”.
A “normal” IQ ranges from 85 to 115 but exceptionally gifted people have scores starting at 145.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1301 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Tue 13 Mar 2007 20:16 Post subject:
Why are Pole so much smarter than slavs that live right next to them? Are they so heavily intermixed with GErmans, or were the tests done in urban areas that were predominately German. I understood that after WWII, almost all the Germanic-Polands immigrated to Germany to avoid persecution.
Unlike other European states in the West (and even Russia for that matter) Germans did not intermix heavily or start the royal family of Poland to my knowledge.
Russia is also fairly low.
There is no heavily Germanic country with a low IQ.
Italians have quite a high IQ, but the other Romance countries do not, especially France, and that is shocking to me. A French guy invented the modern IQ test
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1301 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Wed 14 Mar 2007 13:20 Post subject:
I put some data into an Excel sheet...
Germany 107 $41,399
Holland 107 $30,862
Poland 106 $12,994
Sweden 104 $29,926
Italy 102 $28,534
Austria 101 $33,432
Switzer 101 $32,571
Britian 100 $30,436
Norway 99 $42,364
Belgium 99 $31,244
Denmark 99 $34,740
Finland 99 $31,208
Czech 98 $18,341
Hungary 98 $16,823
Spain 98 $26,320
Ireland 97 $40,610
Russia 96 $11,041
Greece 95 $22,392
France 94 $29,187
Bulgaria 94 $9,223
Romania 94 $8,785
Turkey 90 $7,950
Serbia 89 $5,348
There is a trend, but not exactly...France is an outlier, so is Italy and Sweden, but then again...I did PPP, the Scandanavian countries have very very high taxes...
Are they higher than Holland's France's or Germany's? I would guess that they aren't that much higher than those countries' tax rates. High tax rates are common in Western Europe.
And what's up with Ireland? Increase in economic investment?
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1301 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Wed 14 Mar 2007 17:16 Post subject:
G-man: From what I know The Scandanavian countries have almost a 50% tax rate on middle class wealth so it is the highest in the world...much higher than France.
Okay I redid it with real dollars and PPP:
Country IQ PPP Real Dollars (nominal)
Germany 107 $41,399 $33,854
Holladn 107 $30,862 $38,618
Poland 106 $12,994 $7,946
Sweden 104 $29,926 $39,694
Italy 102 $28,534 $30,200
Austria 101 $33,432 $37,117
Switzer 101 $32,571 $50,532
Britian 100 $30,436 $38,624
Norway 99 $42,364 $64,193
Belgium 99 $31,244 $35,712
Denmark 99 $34,740 $47,984
Finland 99 $31,208 $37,504
Czech 98 $18,341 $12,152
Hungary 98 $16,823 $10,814
Spain 98 $26,320 $27,226
Ireland 97 $40,610 $48,604
Russia 96 $11,041 $5,349
Greece 95 $22,392 $20,327
France 94 $29,187 $33,918
Bulgaria 94 $9,223 $3,459
Romania 94 $8,785 $4,539
Turkey 90 $7,950 $5,062
Serbia 89 $5,348 $2,880
I did a scatterplot Excel chart on all of these numbers...the ones that looks like it correlates the best with IQ is PPP, the real dollar is much closer to a vertical line...almost no real difference...
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 {Posts: 261 } Location: Canada
Posted: Wed 14 Mar 2007 17:23 Post subject:
Don't simply believe everything you read. This information was released by Richard Lynn who is a racist. He believes in racial theory and racial ability. He believes in the categories of "white" and "black", and that "whites" are intellectually superior. On his website he says,
"that the average IQ of blacks in sub-Saharan Africa is approximately 70. It has long been known that the average IQ of blacks in the United States is approximately 85. The explanation for the higher IQ of American blacks is that they have about 25 per cent of Caucasian genes and a better environment."
This is the kind of man who conducted the "study" so I would not take anything he had to say very seriously.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1301 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Wed 14 Mar 2007 17:29 Post subject:
I know who he is and that he is a racialist...I'm trying to see if there is any validity in his claim...it doesn't look like it, well unless you do all kinds of mental gymnastics to explain it.
As far as the average African IQ being 70...uhm a lot of the studies he bases those on are bogus, some of the numbers were made up based on what they thought the average IQ should be for certain nations based on ethnic composition...
I do believe Africans have a lower average IQ, but I also believe a lot of it is environmental, and some of it is poor testing, disease, low nutrition, etc.
I posted a little on the Bellcurve and the Book, IQ and the Wealth of Nations the bible for racialist IQ folks...
These authors have been caught straight lying about various data and making up numbers...they are usually funded by right wing organizations that are fronts for eugenic style Neo-Nazi racists...this is all well documented on the net.
There are so many holes in their theories I do not even know where to start, all of it is based on circumstantial evidence being that we have not identified one gene (absent in large populations of blacks) that effect IQ and we can not quantify all the variables that determine environmental IQ issues...most of these assumptions come from twin studies and adoption studies which I also have some issues with after having read one.
These people try to blame IQ on everything from sexual behavior to crime. So many holes...none of them have explained to me why Eskimos have a high rate of promiscuity as compared to other East Asians, and Eskimo IQ is higher than most people in the Middle East but they obviously are not known and do not produce great technologies.
No one has been able to explain why some black populations have high crime rates (like black Americans or worse Jamaicans) but other blacks in West Africa and the Caribbean have lower crime rates than Europeans. I pulled out stats from Interpol...put them on parapundit...dude could not explain it, just said "they were likely lying, it is because these people are rural and groupist, all this ying-yang)...so I asked him "white folks only grabbed the smart slaves and put them on certain islands?
It is junk science. They are trying to prove something instead of relying on evidence to determine outcome.
Until I see a group of genes that have been proven to show directly effect on IQ and those genes are absent in most blacks, in a way that strongly correlates with the IQ gap, I am not interest in racialist guess work by those being paid by Neo-Nazis.
I posted as Wunderluster and broke down Randell a little at Parapundit on crime rates and black folks...
BTW...parapundit links to American Renaissance (white nationalist site) which links to Steve Sailer and also Stormfront (skinhead site)...see any patterns??
I posted as Wunderluster and broke down Randell a little at Parapundit on crime rates and black folks...
BTW...parapundit links to American Renaissance (white nationalist site) which links to Steve Sailer and also Stormfront (skinhead site)...see any patterns??
Or maybe you are part of that pattern you mentioned above. Mmmm.
One thing I did notice was that most of these European nations have IQs below 100. The U.S. mean for white people is 100. No doubt some would blame this relative poor showing on immigration from the non-European Thrid World, but many of these below 100 IQ countries haven't been the recipients of many non-European Third World immigrants (Serbia for example). Germany, with its average of 107, has seen large numbers of Turkish immigrants since the 60s or 70s and it still has a mean IQ of 107.
Finally, if low IQ correlates with certain social pathologies, this would partly explain some of the turmoil and social breakdown in some parts of Eastern Europe .
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 {Posts: 261 } Location: Canada
Posted: Wed 14 Mar 2007 19:03 Post subject:
Fortunately I'm old enough to know that no respectable scientist would do such a study. It simply can never be a proper scientific study by any stretch of the imagination.
But there are people who may take the initial posting at face value. That's why I think, if the source of the information has questionable beliefs, values and motives it is only fair to fully educate the readers.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1301 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Wed 14 Mar 2007 19:20 Post subject:
G-Man wrote:
Or maybe you are part of that pattern you mentioned above. Mmmm.
One thing I did notice was that most of these European nations have IQs below 100. The U.S. mean for white people is 100. No doubt some would blame this relative poor showing on immigration from the non-European Thrid World, but many of these below 100 IQ countries haven't been the recipients of many non-European Third World immigrants (Serbia for example). Germany, with its average of 107, has seen large numbers of Turkish immigrants since the 60s or 70s and it still has a mean IQ of 107.
Finally, if low IQ correlates with certain social pathologies, this would partly explain some of the turmoil and social breakdown in some parts of Eastern Europe .
Yep you caught me I'm a black man who supports white nationalism..because I'm suicidal and want to start the Helter Skelter...haha
No more like Steve saw my site on some other site like DIenekes, where I posted, he looked at it, thought it sound right wing without reading it and put a link...
As far as IQ...
The U.S. whtie population is made up disporportionately of landless peasants, you would think the IQ would be lower if IQ always explained economic outcome or correlated highly with it, obviously not. Most Chinese Americans (before the students coming in the 1980's) were also landless peasant stock...
It is true that all the Western European countries have recieved far more thirdworld non-white immigration than Eastern Europe, but you know how the IQ Gods think...
THey will say "oh well that is due to major self selection in immigration, the smart ones came over or something...or at least smart for their countries...blah blah blah" this was used to explain why black africans are more educated and wealthy than white English people in the UK. Oh also more educated and wealthy than Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, only second to Hindu Indians.
Russia IQ is higher than or equal to many countries in Western and Central Europe but they have a horrible murder rate, higher than most black countries in the Carribean (as I showed on parapundit) and quite a few African countries...
This was constantly explained to me by "Russian high rates of neuroticism caused by decades of communism" LOL
I would not blame low IQ for Eastern Europeans problem when I can find a dozen Middle Eastern and SubSahara black nations with supposedly low IQs (significantly lower) like less than 85 who have very little crime at all.
Like I said, too many holes...all of the IQ data breaks down under serious critisism, and if I posted this on Gene Expression and backed it up with real data it would be deleted immediately. I know because I tried it, they won't even argue it.
Last edited by Dragon Horse on Wed 14 Mar 2007 20:23; edited 1 time in total
Fortunately I'm old enough to know that no respectable scientist would do such a study. It simply can never be a proper scientific study by any stretch of the imagination.
But there are people who may take the initial posting at face value. That's why I think, if the source of the information has questionable beliefs, values and motives it is only fair to fully educate the readers.
So you're saying that any study whose objective is to collect data on average IQs among nations isn't respectable or are you saying drawing the "wrong" conclusions about that data isn't respectable?
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 {Posts: 261 } Location: Canada
Posted: Wed 14 Mar 2007 20:22 Post subject:
Yes, I would question collecting IQ data in relation to any group of people, big or small.
There are many types of IQ tests and they vary greatly. Most measure only strengths overall so someone like Albert Einstein might have a surprisingly low IQ score because his strengths were concentrated in one area of intelligence; and yet he is considered one of the most brilliant Homo Sapiens we've ever produced.
Human intelligence is complex and multifaceted, and cannot be reduced to a simple test, (which is likely created by people who do very well in such tests.)
I don't believe that collecting IQ data on groups of people would in anyway help humankind but on the contrary, I think it has the potential to be extremely harmful.
So you would be opposed to job-related testing and standardized tests such as those administered by the military, the NFL , civil service or schools?
Collecting data on intelligence tests over time is useful insofar as one can track the intellectual progress or lack thereof of a particular group or nation over time. The fact that people draw dangerous or uncomfortable conclusions from the data doesn't negate the data's usefulness.
So you would be opposed to job-related testing and standardized tests such as those administered by the military, the NFL , civil service or schools?
Collecting data on intelligence tests over time is useful insofar as one can track the intellectual progress or lack thereof of a particular group or nation over time. The fact that people draw dangerous or uncomfortable conclusions from the data doesn't negate the data's usefulness.
But were these tests ever designed to say anything valid about the "aggregate" IQ of a group or nation? The IQ test is fundamentally an individual assessment. Hasn't it been misappropriated as a tool to measure group IQ? There really is no such thing as a "group IQ." If I am Japanese and have an IQ of 90, while 10 other Japanese people have an IQ of 110 each, that still doesn't make me any smarter because I am Japanese. If I collect all individual IQ scores within a country and compare them to the aggregate scores of another, what does that really say? There is a HUGE difference in the predicted "intelligence" or capability of a country with a million people with scores in a range of 90-100 and a country with a million people with more individual scores below 90 but enough extremely high scores to make their average 105.
Now unless someone has shown a correlation between group membership and IQ, every person in a group, including the lowest scoring individuals, are "smarter" (using some objective measure) than the individuals with the same scores in another group, I really don't see much use in collecting or reporting group IQ data. Where is the genetic and/or cultural cause for the difference in the bell curves? For that matter, where are the causes for individual IQ differences?
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