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sagascend
Moderator
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
{Posts: 2302 }
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 Posted: Fri 11 Aug 2006 15:15 Post subject: |
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| triguy wrote: | Isn't it interesting who it is that someone will always point to failings of one person and connect that to the cultural failings of some component of "Black America." This just never seems to stop.
Mel Gibson's recent anti-Semitic remarks were indicative of the evil of what musical subculture? Or is it that Mel is just an ignorant, hateful man who, like Torain, exposed his true colors. |
Well we know who to blame if Mel listens to hip hop.  |
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G-Man
Moderator
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
{Posts: 2928 }
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| Posted: Sun 13 Aug 2006 18:51 Post subject: |
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| triguy wrote: | Isn't it interesting who it is that someone will always point to failings of one person and connect that to the cultural failings of some component of "Black America." This just never seems to stop.
Mel Gibson's recent anti-Semitic remarks were indicative of the evil of what musical subculture? Or is it that Mel is just an ignorant, hateful man who, like Torain, exposed his true colors. |
Or perhaps his reactionary Catholic upbringing had something to do with his remarks. Remarks like the ones he made would not have been out of place among Roman Catholic's of Gibson's father's generation.
Finally, mentioning Gibson's outburst doesn't negate the fact that elements of hip hop today reflect and reinforce negative behaviors within the black community. Indeed, many black youth get their cues on what constitutes authentically black behavior from certain elements of that music genre. Older black folks discuss this sort of thing all the time. |
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sagascend
Moderator
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
{Posts: 2302 }
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| Posted: Sun 13 Aug 2006 19:21 Post subject: |
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| G-Man wrote: | | Indeed, many black youth get their cues on what constitutes authentically black behavior from certain elements of that music genre. Older black folks discuss this sort of thing all the time. |
And when they do, in my experience, they know better than to attribute it to "Black culture" or even hip hop music. They are much more aware of the social problems that produced these behaviors in the first place and reinforced their appeal. Nothing makes my parents angrier than for someone to suggest that what one sees on BET is authentically Black, and rightly so. |
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gemini072
Moderator
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
{Posts: 2901 }
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| Posted: Mon 14 Aug 2006 12:24 Post subject: |
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| G-Man wrote: | | triguy wrote: | Isn't it interesting who it is that someone will always point to failings of one person and connect that to the cultural failings of some component of "Black America." This just never seems to stop.
Mel Gibson's recent anti-Semitic remarks were indicative of the evil of what musical subculture? Or is it that Mel is just an ignorant, hateful man who, like Torain, exposed his true colors. |
Or perhaps his reactionary Catholic upbringing had something to do with his remarks. Remarks like the ones he made would not have been out of place among Roman Catholic's of Gibson's father's generation.
Finally, mentioning Gibson's outburst doesn't negate the fact that elements of hip hop today reflect and reinforce negative behaviors within the black community.
You keep pressing that, like someone is denying it. That is not what Triguy or Sag is doing. That is a similar problem with the world, a certain element of black youth act out in an embarrassing way and they become the representatives of all Black America.
Indeed, many black youth get their cues on what constitutes authentically black behavior from certain elements of that music genre. Older black folks discuss this sort of thing all the time. |
And there are many black youth who have nothing to do with those certain elements of that music genre. So where do we go from here... |
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sagascend
Moderator
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
{Posts: 2302 }
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| Posted: Mon 14 Aug 2006 20:02 Post subject: |
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| gemini072 wrote: | | a certain element of black youth act out in an embarrassing way and they become the representatives of all Black America. |
This is true and very infuriating. For anyone who has seen the movie "Crash" there is a scene in which Terence Howard's character confronts Ludacris's character, basically telling him that he is an embarrassment to Black people everywhere. And what he meant is not just merely embarassing, like Paris Hilton must be to her family, but representative, and therefore dangerous. Black people or people perceived as Black people don't have the luxury of being individuals in many ways. They are always subject to becoming symbols, responsible for representing an entire population of people. And when a segment of the population represents Blacks in a negative light the other parts pay dearly. The overt social control that Blacks try to enforce over one another should be considered in this light.
There was a brilliant sketch that two Black members of the latest Second City cast did last year. They were playing two buttoned-up Black professionals at work who were constantly spoken to by Whites in hip hop and/or street vernacular. They responded in kind but it was made clear that they were just trying to give these people the representation of Blacks that they wanted. I went with a mixed group, and me and one other Black woman were hysterical with laughter. Later on we explained to our co-workers why it was so funny....the sketch was a send-up of very real situations we'd had with non-Black co-workers trying to "relate" to us by "speaking hip hop." We ended up having honest and open discussion about it.
| gemini072 wrote: | | And there are many black youth who have nothing to do with those certain elements of that music genre. So where do we go from here... |
That's what I wonder as well. It seems there is no end to the minstrel show that some rappers put on, but there is a long American tradition of highly compensating Blacks and people in blackface for portraying Blacks negatively. |
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triguy
Superuser
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
{Posts: 878 }
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| Posted: Mon 14 Aug 2006 22:37 Post subject: |
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But having to live one's life with the fate of a "people" hanging in the balance and one is just an average 9-to-5er is tough. Wouldn't it be nice to just be a human being? Why should anyone have to live her/his life with the balance of the world on her/his shoulder because of the racism of others?
I also have to agree about the stupid comments that white co-workers can make. It's insane. One guy had to explain to me the reason that there were no black Olympic swimmers: blacks don't have enough fat in them! Huh?!! I so do not love when idiots start spewing psuedo-scientific crap. |
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G-Man
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Joined: 27 Nov 2004
{Posts: 2928 }
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| Posted: Tue 15 Aug 2006 17:20 Post subject: |
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| sagascend wrote: | | G-Man wrote: | | Indeed, many black youth get their cues on what constitutes authentically black behavior from certain elements of that music genre. Older black folks discuss this sort of thing all the time. |
And when they do, in my experience, they know better than to attribute it to "Black culture" or even hip hop music. They are much more aware of the social problems that produced these behaviors in the first place and reinforced their appeal. Nothing makes my parents angrier than for someone to suggest that what one sees on BET is authentically Black, and rightly so. |
As they should, but many who suggest that these behaviors are authentically black and somehow more "real" than other kinds of behaviors or expressions one finds in Black America are black people. This is precisely why so many younger blacks, regardless of economic background, are given mixed messages as far as what is culturally authentic behavior. When you hear it from insiders it carries more weight. |
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