Funny, I seem to recall someone round her praising to the skies the strong cultural connections of Hispano/Latino culture, which makes me think Chileans are not always expressing identity at the national level.
The identity people follows is the national identity of the country, not their particular familiar descendency. It's so hard to explain, but I would try.
Perhaps another Chilean has explained your countrymen's idea of identity elsewhere. Chilean's not identifing with their family is strange to me. Is Chile a nation with the population as one family, and the leader the parent—and everyone's surname is Chile?
Quote:
Imagine you are an Australian, then your country is Australia and your Queen is called Queen Elizabeth II. Now, if you are a Chilean your land is Chile, and Chile's ancestors are the ancient natives and Spain. Spain is like the image of the Queen for us. Is an idealize land, more in the imagination than in reality. Is the land of "some" of our ancestors and the origin of "most" of our culture.
I don't know if you get it.
In my particular case, my ancestors came from France, Italy, Spain and Natives. But those French and Italians does not count at all because they are not part of the "official" origin of my country.
Uf!!! I don't know if I could transmit the idea. People follow the identity of the country and not the one of the family tree.
I don't really think the Australian example helps any. Queen Elizabeth II is the actual head of state or some offical position in Australia. It's nothing idealised or in the imagination. Neither were the descriptions of Hispanic/Latino cultural identity you previously expounded on. They were put over in a way to say it was important. And Spain was most certainly a part of that collective cutural identity.
oevega wrote:
Altertude wrote:
Well, William asked about people in Chile not when they go to America, and that is why I'm still a bit confused. At the level I observe it the "white" thing is also a European thing.
Chileans consider themselves "white" because most have skins that vary from light brown skin to white.
Does "White" mean the same thing as light brown skin?
Last edited by Altertude on Wed 24 May 2006 15:09; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Wed 24 May 2006 13:51 Post subject: Definitions
Altertude wrote:
...I don't really think the Australian example helps any. Queen Elizabeth II is the actual head of state or some offical position in Australia. It's nothing idealised or in the imagination. Neither were the descriptions of Hispanic/Latino cultural identity you previously expounded on. They were put over in a way to say it was important. And Spain was most certainly a part of that collective cutural identity.
Let me be simple. We are chileans and does is it. We are related to other people, we have "parent" countries and "brother" countries, we have minorities and some exotic ancestors, etc. But the main thing is we are a people by ourselves, and that is it. We have a culture and tradition that is ours.
Quote:
Does "White" mean the same thing as light brown skin?
White in Spanish mean European descendent, but also means a color of the skin, and we use the term in a casual manner. And, as you know, not all the Europeans are blond. In the U.S. most of the immigrants were of Germanic ancestry, and that is were the confussion started in that country. For us, matters are pretty clear.
Joined: 28 Apr 2006 {Posts: 282 } Location: 51st State
Posted: Wed 24 May 2006 15:27 Post subject: Re: Definitions
oevega wrote:
Altertude wrote:
Does "White" mean the same thing as light brown skin?
White in Spanish mean European descendent, but also means a color of the skin, and we use the term in a casual manner. And, as you know, not all the Europeans are blond. In the U.S. most of the immigrants were of Germanic ancestry, and that is were the confussion started in that country. For us, matters are pretty clear.
Yes, blanco in Spanish is used casually. Which is why I'm trying to find out what someone means precisely when they use it. North Africans of light brown skin are counted as "White", but I don't know if they consider themselves as being of European descendence.
Posted: Wed 24 May 2006 15:31 Post subject: Re: Definitions
Altertude wrote:
North Africans of light brown skin are counted as "White"....
Could you please rephrase this to active voice. Exactly who is it that counts "North Africans of light brown skin" as "White"? Just you? Or are you talking about someone else? If you are talking about someone else, you should name them.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Wed 24 May 2006 15:56 Post subject: Re: Definitions
Altertude wrote:
..Yes, blanco in Spanish is used casually. Which is why I'm trying to find out what someone means precisely when they use it. North Africans of light brown skin are counted as "White", but I don't know if they consider themselves as being of European descendence.
Hi,
There are frases like "El hombre blanco" (the white man) in which means the European colonizer, but sometimes includes their mixed assimilated descendents as well. In common speach "blanco" means pale but not rose skin (like Utah mormons, for example). A light brown person is called trigueño or moreno (brown), and a blond is called a rubio or rusio (Russian).
Now, North Africans are called Moors because they are Muslims. They are believed to be ethnically Arabs, so are considered mainly europoids (caucasians).
People know that North Africans have a certain degree of admixtures, so depending of the individual the person will be called "blanco" or "moreno" (brown). Now, if the person looks really Black it would be considered a Black Moor.
A common average Berber, for instance, will be considered blanco but not European. It is not usually know, but some Berbers even have colored eyes.
In other words, many Moors, Arabs, Agfans, Central Asians, and even East Indians are considered white, but it depends on the look of the individuals. Some are, and some aren't. They are not considered Europeans, though.
'
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