The Study of Racialism

Salsassin · SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 }

Some of Weatherford's apparently not.

oevega · Posted: Tue 23 May 2006 10:54 Post subject: Credibility

Hi,

Forget the issue of platinum and vulcanization that we discussed before.
What are the ideas of Weatherford that are in question?
I read the book and I found is very accurate but also make some controversial claims. Some of these are:

(1) The iroquies federation and their influence in the writing of the U.S. constitution.

(2) He say it may be possible Macchu Picchu was an agricultural research facility. (Well, he said it was possible not that is was true.)

Most of the other claims are well known: quinine, cocaine, chocolate, surgery, dentistry, syringes, canoes, etc., all of which are quite well known. Also, the impact of the Americas in Europe in terms of the import of vegetables like potatoes and corn, and in the revenues from gold and silver minning in the Americas.

What else do you find so difficult to accept?

Regards,

Omar Vega

William · Posted: Thu 25 May 2006 15:18 Post subject:

I must add something here. I know this isn't really the place for continuing this debate, and I apologize to Gordon for it.

The ancient Chinese invented movable type around 1000 A.D. or so. But they found it impractical for their complex characters, so they soon abandoned it. Westerners knew nothing of this invention. There is no evidence whatsoever that Gutenberg knew anything about the Chinese invention. So, Gutenberg also independently invented movable type in the 1400's. Gutenberg's invention is the one that changed the world, as it was his invention that quickly spread. Which invention carries more weight? Gutenberg's, of course. If Gutenberg had based his invention on the Chinese invention, then that would render the content of this paragraph moot, and would establish the Chinese invention as pivotal. But he did not.

Karl Benz can be said to have invented the internal-combustion-engined car. He was the first person to do all of the following things: create a successful prototype (in 1885), go into production (in 1888), and inspire others to do the same, who often directly copied his invention. There were other inventive, tinkering individuals who created such vehicles earlier, but they weren't very successful, didn't inspire others (because they fell into obscurity and no one knew about them), and didn't go into production. These include De Rivaz in Switzerland in 1807, Brown in England in 1826, Lenoir in France in 1863, Marcus in Austria in 1870, and Delamare-Deboutteville in France in 1884. But whose invention carries the most weight? Benz's, of course. He started an industry, along with Gottlieb Daimler, who also went into production early and whose engine was used by other beginner automobile makers.

I'm not saying that Native American inventions fall into the category of inventions that were of no consequence. Clearly, those that spread throughout the Native world were of great importance, even if Westerners independenty re-invented some of them later. I just had to comment because of what Omar said about Gutenberg. Some early inventions that didn't amount to much can't be compared with later, totally independent inventions of the same type that changed the world as we know it.

oevega · Posted: Thu 25 May 2006 16:29 Post subject: Agree