Sin is sin: This is a social assumption. No, its a religious and practical one shared across most cultures and all religions.
She bases it on a supposedly natural claim:
Gay couples cannot procreate and it's unnatural. Yes, they cannot and yes it is unnatural. Okay, then prove that homosexuality is natural. Even among animals it is abberant behavior.
(and yes, I know all about those monkeys...)
p.s. Arguing that a certain human behavior is 'normal' or 'natural' because animals do it too.......Well, if we humans are just animals then why have a legal system? Allow people to steal, kill, murder, etc since such is Nature........
But that is a social assumption based on what is sin. (The beleif that god told us to procreate). Wrong again, not a social assumption. Sin can be defined as anything that goes against God's Law/Nature's Law and applies to all cultures. Another definition, it is written 'for him that knows (they know its wrong that why its closeted)
Ty wrote:That's not true, they are in 'the closet' because of peoples prejudice and blinding hatred at times. Do you know how many kids when their parents found out, put them out or started a cycle of abuse toward the kid?
to do right and does it not, for him/her it is sin'.
It is not 'wrong' for heterosexuals to not procreate, but the ability is there, so exclude this line of reasoning. p.s. Humans will procreate wheither or not they believe God told them to...... It is unnatural behavior and all of you KNOW it to be true. .
It is sin because it is unnatural, and it is unnatural because it is sin.
It is sin, period.
Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
Posted: Tue 08 Aug 2006 20:21 Post subject: Re: sicks
oevega wrote:
zsana wrote:
..I would hope any family faced with a gay/lesbian family member - yes even ones child - would love and accept them (and not reject or disown them) regardless if they personally agreed/were happy with with their proclivity/lifestyle or not. Love should come first and foremost in a family and I believe it should be unconditional just as long as people are not engaging in illegal activity or behavior harmful to children.
My two cents...
Well,
At least in Latin America, many people don't consider homesexuality to be a sin,
What??? In Catholic Latin America it's not considered a sin???
but an illness. So people will consider gays to be sick people. A joke of mother nature, so to speak. And the families usually also consider them to be just sick childrens, like alcoholics, drug adicts or mentally retarded people.
Nothing to complain, but nothing to be proud of, either.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Tue 08 Aug 2006 20:56 Post subject: Re: sicks
gemini072 wrote:
..
Well,
At least in Latin America, many people don't consider homesexuality to be a sin,
What??? In Catholic Latin America it's not considered a sin???
More than a sin it is considered an unnatural vice or perversion. Something abnormal that could be cure by using psychiatry, perhaps. Something like making love with animals, sadism and other things of the kind.
By the way, many in Latin America also consider that sexual abstinency of the clergy (at least in theory), is also an illness.
Posted: Tue 08 Aug 2006 21:13 Post subject: Re: sicks
oevega wrote:
gemini072 wrote:
..
Well,
At least in Latin America, many people don't consider homesexuality to be a sin,
What??? In Catholic Latin America it's not considered a sin???
More than a sin it is considered an unnatural vice or perversion. Something abnormal that could be cure by using psychiatry, perhaps. Something like making love with animals, sadism and other things of the kind.
I think all of what you said is summed up as sin. but not fornication though...
By the way, many in Latin America also consider that sexual abstinency of the clergy (at least in theory), is also an illness.
Homosexual sex is considered a sin in Latin America - at least broadly speaking. Certain countries in Latin America it is more tolerated; and even within certain regions of the same country it is either more tolerated or brutally untolerated depending on the region within that particular country.
One woman who's son came close to winning the presidency in one Latin American country - can't remember which one it was - publicly proclaimed that the first thing her son should do if he wins is impose the death penalty on all homosexuals to save the moral structure of the society.
Anyone who believes Mexico is more tolerant of homosexuality than the United States, the Neatherlands, or the U.K. is just simply wrong.
Brazil is one of the most tolerant countries for homosexuals - depending on what region of Brazil you are in. But even in Brazil homosexuals get murdered. Its claimed Brazil is one of the most intolerant and dangerous places for homosexuals in the world. I don't believe because the statistical study I believe is questionable. Plus not only does Brazil have extremely large homosexual and transexual populations in places like Sao Paulo (which is suppose to have the best gay night life in all Latin America) and Rio de Janeiro, Brazil also elected a transexual to be sheriff in one of her towns. Many nations outside of the Brazil might not record all homosexual hate crimes including the United States simply due to prejudical police not recording it. Afterall a young Asian teen boy running down the street butt naked and bleeding from his butt, hysterical, was returned back to serial killer Jeffry Dalmer by the police when Jeffry approached the cops and told him it was his lover. The kid could not speak English, the cops thought it funny and handed the kid to Jeffry Dalmer to take back in his apartment. Where of course he was killed and then eaten.
Certain parts of the United States is pretty decent to be homosexual in (meaning openly living such way) and other parts not so. Same thing with Brazil. A place like Mexico I don't think its cool anywhere. You'll die early from murder.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Tue 08 Aug 2006 22:39 Post subject: Martial arts
e harmoni wrote:
..Certain parts of the United States is pretty decent to be homosexual in (meaning openly living such way) and other parts not so. Same thing with Brazil. A place like Mexico I don't think its cool anywhere. You'll die early from murder.
Actually, homosexuals live a risky life in many places of Latin America. But travesties have to know martial arts in order to survive.
Omar
Last edited by oevega on Wed 09 Aug 2006 02:18; edited 1 time in total
Why do people always want to force their religion on others? Deliver us O Great Flying Spaghetti Monster!
Omar,
I think it's dangerous to be transgendered in most places. I find it ridiculous how people can be threatened by other people's differences so easily. But the desire to turn fear into hate and violence has become a cliche whether it's based on race, sex, religion, sexual orientation, or gender identity.
There's a significant amount of data now that shows correlation to exposure to hormone levels in utero can shape gender identity and sexuality. But, it's easier to dismiss science and burn a fellow human being at the stake. I'm sure Jesus would be very proud to see murder in his name, not!
Where would our African American culture be without our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters? Goodbye Langston Hughes, Bessie Smith, James Baldwin and Octavia Butler to name a few of our heroes. Hell, where would Western culture be without Alexander the Great, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Frida Kahlo, Aristotle, or Benard Ruston (of the US Civil Rights Movement).
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Tue 08 Aug 2006 23:49 Post subject: Tolerancy
triguy wrote:
Why do people always want to force their religion on others? Deliver us O Great Flying Spaghetti Monster!
Omar,
I think it's dangerous to be transgendered in most places. I find it ridiculous how people can be threatened by other people's differences so easily. But the desire to turn fear into hate and violence has become a cliche whether it's based on race, sex, religion, sexual orientation, or gender identity.
There's a significant amount of data now that shows correlation to exposure to hormone levels in utero can shape gender identity and sexuality. But, it's easier to dismiss science and burn a fellow human being at the stake. I'm sure Jesus would be very proud to see murder in his name, not!
Where would our African American culture be without our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters? Goodbye Langston Hughes, Bessie Smith, James Baldwin and Octavia Butler to name a few of our heroes. Hell, where would Western culture be without Alexander the Great, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Frida Kahlo, Aristotle, or Benard Ruston (of the US Civil Rights Movement).
Well, homophobia is a characteristic of "modern" Western Society. some Asians, Native Americans and even ancient Muslims were more easy going. Actually, Ancient Greeks and even brutish Romans were a lot more tolerant with gay people than the West. Ancient Greeks, in particular, considered it the "standard" behavoir.
Latin America in particular can be seen like an "old-fashioned" Western mind, like extracted from the dark ages. Intolerancy is not promoted by the states but by the common people. With all the prejudices of the times of the inquisition.
Ancient Greeks and Romans were "tolerant" of homosexuality; they were happily omnisexual with a vengeance. There was no stigma of homosexuality. People enjoyed sex for the please of it.
That said, homophobia is alive and well in Islamic countries and Carribbean culture (which is Western).
Ancient Greeks and Romans were "tolerant" of homosexuality; they were happily omnisexual with a vengeance. There was no stigma of homosexuality. People enjoyed sex for the please of it.
Not entirely correct. There was a stigma for homsexuals in Rome who were on the passive end of the sexual congress. Ancient Romans views regard "homosexuality" was very much like that on Italy and Brazil today. Masculine men that were the dominate in a sexual encounter with the same-sex were not viewed as "homosexual." Ancient Rome, per the standards of ancient times, was also pretty "conservative."
Italy during the 1500's, 1600's and so on however was an extremely bisexual place. Many other European nationalities in writings during that time point this out about the Italians. I believe it was Dutchmen (or maybe he was German) who stated in one of his writings that the Italians were worse than the Muslims when it came to sodomizing younger men and boys.
Certain parts of the United States is pretty decent to be homosexual in (meaning openly living such way) and other parts not so. Same thing with Brazil. A place like Mexico I don't think its cool anywhere. You'll die early from murder.
Jamaica is probably the worst place in the Western Hemisphere for homosexual men. Much worse that either Mexico or the United States.
Certain parts of the United States is pretty decent to be homosexual in (meaning openly living such way) and other parts not so. Same thing with Brazil. A place like Mexico I don't think its cool anywhere. You'll die early from murder.
Jamaica is probably the worst place in the Western Hemisphere for homosexual men. Much worse that either Mexico or the United States.
Oh snap! From what I hear about Jamaica you are correct G-Man. How did I forget about that place? That's another reason I don't believe some dubious report that came claiming Brazil was about one of the worst and most dangerous places on earth for homosexuals. I've heard from second hand stories about Jamaican society regarding gay men . Not pretty at all. Some of the most barbaric attacks.
Plus Iran has executed several thousand men for being homosexual over the years.
Certain parts of the United States is pretty decent to be homosexual in (meaning openly living such way) and other parts not so. Same thing with Brazil. A place like Mexico I don't think its cool anywhere. You'll die early from murder.
Jamaica is probably the worst place in the Western Hemisphere for homosexual men. Much worse that either Mexico or the United States.
Oh snap! From what I hear about Jamaica you are correct G-Man. How did I forget about that place? That's another reason I don't believe some dubious report that came claiming Brazil was about one of the worst and most dangerous places on earth for homosexuals. I've heard from second hand stories about Jamaican society regarding gay men . Not pretty at all. Some of the most barbaric attacks.
Plus Iran has executed several thousand men for being homosexual over the years.
Brazil is and isn't.....It's one of those complicated situations. On the one hand, transexual /transvestite men can be seen in many areas and gay men are visible. On the other hand, the overall machismo of that society may make it difficult for less-than masculine men to find acceptance. Of course, many straight men have sexual encounters with effeminate, gay men.
Jamaica though is thoroughly heterosexist and proud of it, as confirmed by many discussions with my family members. To a lesser degree, the British Caribbean outside of Jamaica is like this as well, but very few places can match Jamaica's virulent ant-gay attitudes.
Certain parts of the United States is pretty decent to be homosexual in (meaning openly living such way) and other parts not so. Same thing with Brazil. A place like Mexico I don't think its cool anywhere. You'll die early from murder.
Jamaica is probably the worst place in the Western Hemisphere for homosexual men. Much worse that either Mexico or the United States.
Oh snap! From what I hear about Jamaica you are correct G-Man. How did I forget about that place? That's another reason I don't believe some dubious report that came claiming Brazil was about one of the worst and most dangerous places on earth for homosexuals. I've heard from second hand stories about Jamaican society regarding gay men . Not pretty at all. Some of the most barbaric attacks.
Plus Iran has executed several thousand men for being homosexual over the years.
Brazil is and isn't.....It's one of those complicated situations. On the one hand, transexual /transvestite men can be seen in many areas and gay men are visible. On the other hand, the overall machismo of that society may make it difficult for less-than masculine men to find acceptance. Of course, many straight men have sexual encounters with effeminate, gay men.
Jamaica though is thoroughly heterosexist and proud of it, as confirmed by many discussions with my family members. To a lesser degree, the British Caribbean outside of Jamaica is like this as well, but very few places can match Jamaica's virulent ant-gay attitudes.
I believe like I said earlier, it depends in region/location in Brazil, just like it does in the United States. That why I said in certain parts of Brazil you can get killed. But in over-all areas of Rio or Sao Paulo the cosmpolitan city life offers more of a tolerance especially in diversity. I have seen some Brazilian movies (not suggesting Brazil is completely like the movies. But art can tell you something about a people) where the feminine young male dressed as a female is treated by her clique (of males and females) and those around her as a girl. They even refer to her as a "she" not in a negative way but as though its a factual reality.
Certain parts of Brazil like the North East are very Catholic and conservative I hear. And I'm sure even in certain areas of Rio and Sau Paulo a homosexual or transexual risks beating or death.
Yeah I have a friend who is part Jamaican. Well at least his father is Jamaican and lives there. Anyways he says people in the community be they male or female will come out to cheer the beating to death of a gay man/boy if they hear about it. One young Jamaican guy told my brother matter of factly how the men and women and boys and girls came out to cheer the beating and murder of a gay guy in his community. He said they took a tire placed over the guy and then set him on fire. Everyone cheered with enthusiasm.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Thu 10 Aug 2006 01:43 Post subject: Homosexuals,
Well,
Brazil is a magnet for gays from other South American countries.
In my country, Chile, like in many other Hispanic countries of the region, most people tolerate gays but don't admit exposure. If the individual is gay it must be hide in his closet. And gays are always suspected to be pedophiles.
Criminal attacks on travestis that practise prostitution happens once in a while, promoted by Nazi inspired gangs.
The only case when people react with rage is in the case of pedophile attacks on Children. In those cases a spontaneous mob can kill the suspect before the police arrive.
Sin is sin: This is a social assumption. No, its a religious and practical one shared across most cultures and all religions.
She bases it on a supposedly natural claim:
Gay couples cannot procreate and it's unnatural. Yes, they cannot and yes it is unnatural. Okay, then prove that homosexuality is natural. Even among animals it is abberant behavior.
(and yes, I know all about those monkeys...)
p.s. Arguing that a certain human behavior is 'normal' or 'natural' because animals do it too.......Well, if we humans are just animals then why have a legal system? Allow people to steal, kill, murder, etc since such is Nature........
But that is a social assumption based on what is sin. (The beleif that god told us to procreate). Wrong again, not a social assumption. Sin can be defined as anything that goes against God's Law/Nature's Law and applies to all cultures. Another definition, it is written 'for him that knows (they know its wrong that why its closeted)
Ty wrote:That's not true, they are in 'the closet' because of peoples prejudice and blinding hatred at times. Do you know how many kids when their parents found out, put them out or started a cycle of abuse toward the kid?
to do right and does it not, for him/her it is sin'.
It is not 'wrong' for heterosexuals to not procreate, but the ability is there, so exclude this line of reasoning. p.s. Humans will procreate wheither or not they believe God told them to...... It is unnatural behavior and all of you KNOW it to be true. .
It is sin because it is unnatural, and it is unnatural because it is sin.
It is sin, period.
Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
Melani23 wrote:
No, its a religious and practical one shared across most cultures and all religions
Religion is social.
Quote:
Yes, they cannot and yes it is unnatural. Okay, then prove that homosexuality is natural. Even among animals it is abberant behavior.
(and yes, I know all about those monkeys...)
Then why do so many species practice it, or bisexuality at different points in their life? And bonobos are not monkeys, they are apes
Quote:
p.s. Arguing that a certain human behavior is 'normal' or 'natural' because animals do it too.......Well, if we humans are just animals then why have a legal system? Allow people to steal, kill, murder, etc since such is Nature........
Cause those behaviors cause detriment to the pack. and social animals also have unspoken rules.
Quote:
Wrong again, not a social assumption. Sin can be defined as anything that goes against God's Law/Nature's Law and applies to all cultures. Another definition, it is written 'for him that knows (they know its wrong that why its closeted) to do right and does it not, for him/her it is sin'.
It is not 'wrong' for heterosexuals to not procreate, but the ability is there, so exclude this line of reasoning. p.s. Humans will procreate wheither or not they believe God told them to...... It is unnatural behavior and all of you KNOW it to be true.
.
And then the claim it is not social but defined by religion which is social, hence circular reasoning.
Quote:
It is sin, period
Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1763 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Thu 10 Aug 2006 20:46 Post subject:
sicilianpride wrote:
GOD HATES FAGS AND SO DO I THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR GOD SENDING US 9-11
This is NOT one of those boards where you can come out and write hateful things. This board is for scholarly debate and discussion. I will not tolerate Rev. Fred Phelps sayings of hatred. If you wish to debate the issue in an intelligent manner, fine. Do not continue with this type of rhetoric on this board, please. Thank You.
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Okay, then prove that homosexuality is natural. Even among animals it is abberant behavior.
Homosexual sex is considered a sin in Latin America - at least broadly speaking. Certain countries in Latin America it is more tolerated; and even within certain regions of the same country it is either more tolerated or brutally untolerated depending on the region within that particular country.
From what I hear about Jamaica you are correct G-Man. How did I forget about that place? That's another reason I don't believe some dubious report that came claiming Brazil was about one of the worst and most dangerous places on earth for homosexuals. I've heard from second hand stories about Jamaican society regarding gay men