Well its about time! I'm SO happy that the new Liliy actually LOOKS black! I dunno what it is with these shows but they always try to cast these fairskin "black" actors. Olivia is the only real black person on the show but we don't see her anymore. This new Lily isn't fully black either but she sure is a breath of fresh air! Not whiny and annoying like the last Lily. Hopefully this new Lily will be more realistic and illustrate that yes you can be black and beautiful and yet live in an upperclass American society. Best wishes to the new Lily!
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I want to just jump into the fray a little bit.
I agree in *principle* with what the original poster is saying, although I think she could have phrased her comments a little differently. There's been a very aggravating trend recently where more and more biracial children are being cast as kids to two clearly non-biracial black parents. It's irritating because it's just poor casting [like getting a Korean to play a Chinese person or a Cuban to play Puerto Rican]; but it's insensitive to both biracial and non biracial blacks. It's insensitive to biracial people because having them cast as kids to two black parents denies the reality of who they really are. ["Oh, yeah, we know you're half Chinese/ White/ Arab/ etc, but that doesn't make a difference; one drop of black blood and that's the same as being 100% black, so you can go ahead and pass for a black kid, even though it's screamingly obvious from your looks and hair that you're *mixed.*"]
It's insensitive to non-biracial blacks because it plays into the stereotype that biracial blacks [light skinned, curly hair, etc] are so much *purtier*, so if we need black actors for *any* role, let's just cast the biracial one instead. They're just so much *easier* on the eyes and nicer to look at.
Keep in mind [before people misinterpret what I'm saying] that I'm not a rabid afrocentric person against biracial actors. [In fact, I would love to see Hollywood actually create roles for them where they finally get to play legitimate biracial characters for once, where we get to see them interact with parents of two different nationalities. [The only good example of this was when Halle Berry played the main character in Queenie.] But we're so backwards culturally I doubt that will actually happen.
At any rate, although the last Lily grew on me, I applaud casting for this new actress. It was a gutsy move, considering their history.
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for those who were offended by my comment on the new Lily, you need to stop and think about what I'm saying for a second. I'm black and I have no problems with people of mixed ethnicities and nobody is saying that being half white and half black makes you LESS black. Think for a sec, Christel Khalil is half black and half white but would she ever be hired to play the role of a white girl? Be proud of all your heritages. But at the same time, Lily Winters is a black character with two parents who are depicted as 100% black people. Why must they have a daughter who clearly looks mixed? In these daytime soaps where beautiful and glamorous people are the characters who lead these interesting lives, TV and casting crews seek to find the "neutrally" appealing faces. How often do we ever see a purely black woman who hasn't relaxed her hair or who takes pride (as a character) in her race? Lily Winters (I'm talking about the character not Christel Khalil) is a black girl, so why not hire someone who illustrates this? Its a slap in the face for young actresses who are black but don't get the part because they look "too black" or "too urban". Its bull**** and I've lived it. So before you get on your high horses about REALITY, look the problem in the face before running off scared and unable to tackle and FACE the issue. and so yes CHEERS they have a more black Lily Winters! Give that black character (yes, CHARACTER...one of the very FEW on Y&R) a black face: Devon is clearly mixed, his mother is clearly mixed somewhere along her family tree, Malcom (shemar moore) is clearly mixed, Damon was clearly mixed somewhere along his family tree so what's with the trend??? God Bless Olivia and Nate (oh where are they now by the way??) YES bring more multiculturalism onto the screen, light brown, dark brown, yellow, red whatever, but please, its about time the black characters had some black faces in Genoa City!!!
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This is the most racist and stupid post I have seen on this board in a long time, I wonder if Mariah Carey got your memo on not being black enough, thanks for telling fair skinned people in America that they aren't black enough, shoud they all be the same shade for you to call them black enough. Well you know Nick doesn't look too white, how dare he not have blond hair and blues like Nikkie, and why doesn't he have an accent like his father?
Because people aren't fricking clones of their birth parents in life or on soaps, the gene pool is large, and traits can go back as far as your great-grandparents, maybe that's why as you put it the character wasn't "black enough", maybe she got some of her genes form the master that raped his slave. You know that's how the different shades of black came about. So before you start posting about being black enough check the history, and remember it is just a soap opera and they cast based on talent, not just resemblance.
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I think it's funny how you call the person a racist, and then go on to try to explain why there are fair skinned blacks because slaves were raped by their masters, ROFLMAO!!!
Uh... there are ALSO fair-skinned blacks because there have been legitimate interracial marriages/ unions between blacks and whites. Not everything was the result of *massa* plowing through his plantation of young black honeys, ya know. So I found your statement a little bit bigoted as well, because it seems as if you're saying that light skinned blacks came to be due to foul play at the hands of evil white men running amock ["slavery"] as if it's inconceivable that there were some whites in history who were nice enough to legitimately fall in love with blacks and have children with them.
But that aside, I think that the OP used a poor choice of words. The problem with Lily wasn't that she was the wrong shade; it was that she was clearly a BIRACIAL person playing the child of two black parents. Period.
Last edited by zsana on Sat 01 Jul 2006 18:45; edited 1 time in total
okay, the character of lily is supposed to be the product of neil (kristoff st. john) and dru (victoria rowell). how in the hell is this a cosby showesqe case where there is a biracial child who is supposed to be the product of 2 black parents? kristoff st. john is quite fair skinned himself and i would be willing to bet he is a MGM. and as for victoria rowell-- she is a well known mulatta actress (first gen at that!). she has never tried to hide that fact-- she has always been pretty vocal about her ethnicity. i always thought the first actress who played lily looked like she could easily be the product of those character, two mulattos. its a soap opera. either lily, 1 or 2, could be the product of those two characters. they both have the mulatto phenotype-- just one is lighter and one is darker. how is that any different than mariah and halle? would it be a stretch to say that either of those women were the products of two mulattos?
i think this whole topic is pathetic and i have seen some really racist statements made in this thread from so-called "open minded" people.
Well its about time! I'm SO happy that the new Liliy actually LOOKS black! I dunno what it is with these shows but they always try to cast these fairskin "black" actors. Olivia is the only real black person on the show
OLIVIA is the only real black person on the show, in what way?
but we don't see her anymore. This new Lily isn't fully black either but she sure is a breath of fresh air!
At leas they admitted that
Not whiny and annoying like the last Lily. Hopefully this new Lily will be more realistic and illustrate that yes you can be black and beautiful and yet live in an upperclass American society. Best wishes to the new Lily!
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I want to just jump into the fray a little bit.
I agree in *principle* with what the original poster is saying, although I think she could have phrased her comments a little differently. There's been a very aggravating trend recently where more and more biracial children are being cast as kids to two clearly non-biracial black parents. It's irritating because it's just poor casting [like getting a Korean to play a Chinese person or a Cuban to play Puerto Rican]; but it's insensitive to both biracial and non biracial blacks. It's insensitive to biracial people because having them cast as kids to two black parents denies the reality of who they really are.
Well I don't think anyone who is going to be an actor/actress should getting into this to validate their heritage. Meaning their arent going to be a whole lot of roles that are interracial. Especially if the show is already established like Young & the Restless. That actress fits right in there. Raven Simon Lynn Whitfield & Diane Carrol played the role of biracial/mulatta Vanessa Williams played a quadroon. That's because they are racial mixed yet not biracial. But they could be.
Many people play parts that they aren't. I would personally prefere Italians to play Italians instead of Jews playing italians, or just because someone has dark hair they can be italian. Many Italian american actor don't get parts because of this. Everybody Loves Raymond, He is is the only Italian on the show everyone else -brother mother are Jewish. Sapranoes does a good job of getting Italians to play the part.
["Oh, yeah, we know you're half Chinese/ White/ Arab/ etc, but that doesn't make a difference; one drop of black blood and that's the same as being 100% black, so you can go ahead and pass for a black kid, even though it's screamingly obvious from your looks and hair that you're *mixed.*"]
It's insensitive to non-biracial blacks because it plays into the stereotype that biracial blacks [light skinned, curly hair, etc] are so much *purtier*, so if we need black actors for *any* role, let's just cast the biracial one instead. They're just so much *easier* on the eyes and nicer to look at.
Keep in mind [before people misinterpret what I'm saying] that I'm not a rabid afrocentric person against biracial actors. [In fact, I would love to see Hollywood actually create roles for them where they finally get to play legitimate biracial characters for once, where we get to see them interact with parents of two different nationalities. [The only good example of this was when Halle Berry played the main character in Queenie.] But we're so backwards culturally I doubt that will actually happen.
At any rate, although the last Lily grew on me, I applaud casting for this new actress. It was a gutsy move, considering their history.
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for those who were offended by my comment on the new Lily, you need to stop and think about what I'm saying for a second. I'm black and I have no problems with people of mixed ethnicities and nobody is saying that being half white and half black makes you LESS black. Think for a sec, Christel Khalil is half black and half white but would she ever be hired to play the role of a white girl? Be proud of all your heritages. But at the same time, Lily Winters is a black character with two parents who are depicted as 100% black people. Why must they have a daughter who clearly looks mixed? In these daytime soaps where beautiful and glamorous people are the characters who lead these interesting lives, TV and casting crews seek to find the "neutrally" appealing faces. How often do we ever see a purely black woman who hasn't relaxed her hair or who takes pride (as a character) in her race? Lily Winters (I'm talking about the character not Christel Khalil) is a black girl, so why not hire someone who illustrates this? Its a slap in the face for young actresses who are black but don't get the part because they look "too black" or "too urban". Its bull**** and I've lived it. So before you get on your high horses about REALITY, look the problem in the face before running off scared and unable to tackle and FACE the issue. and so yes CHEERS they have a more black Lily Winters! Give that black character (yes, CHARACTER...one of the very FEW on Y&R) a black face: Devon is clearly mixed, his mother is clearly mixed somewhere along her family tree, Malcom (shemar moore) is clearly mixed, Damon was clearly mixed somewhere along his family tree so what's with the trend??? God Bless Olivia and Nate (oh where are they now by the way??) YES bring more multiculturalism onto the screen, light brown, dark brown, yellow, red whatever, but please, its about time the black characters had some black faces in Genoa City!!!
Quote:
This is the most racist and stupid post I have seen on this board in a long time, I wonder if Mariah Carey got your memo on not being black enough, thanks for telling fair skinned people in America that they aren't black enough, shoud they all be the same shade for you to call them black enough. Well you know Nick doesn't look too white, how dare he not have blond hair and blues like Nikkie, and why doesn't he have an accent like his father?
Because people aren't fricking clones of their birth parents in life or on soaps, the gene pool is large, and traits can go back as far as your great-grandparents, maybe that's why as you put it the character wasn't "black enough", maybe she got some of her genes form the master that raped his slave. You know that's how the different shades of black came about. So before you start posting about being black enough check the history, and remember it is just a soap opera and they cast based on talent, not just resemblance.
Quote:
I think it's funny how you call the person a racist, and then go on to try to explain why there are fair skinned blacks because slaves were raped by their masters, ROFLMAO!!!
Uh... there are ALSO fair-skinned blacks because there have been legitimate interracial marriages/ unions between blacks and whites. Not everything was the result of *massa* plowing through his plantation of young black honeys, ya know. So I found your statement a little bit bigoted as well, because it seems as if you're saying that light skinned blacks came to be due to foul play at the hands of evil white men running amock ["slavery"] as if it's inconceivable that there were some whites in history who were nice enough to legitimately fall in love with blacks and have children with them.
But that aside, I think that the OP used a poor choice of words. The problem with Lily wasn't that she was the wrong shade; it was that she was clearly a BIRACIAL person playing the child of two black parents. Period.
This last comment was stupid. a biracial person playing the child of 2 black parents? Anyone knows that a mixed person can produce a child lighter than themselves weither it's with a black person biracial person or gen-mixed person. Vanessa Williams & her brother both have blue eyes, both of her parents are mixed but neither have light eyes.
Posted: Thu 29 Jun 2006 15:28 Post subject: cosby showesqe: Clare Huxtable
[quote="mul2std"]okay, the character of lily is supposed to be the product of neil (kristoff st. john) and dru (victoria rowell). how in the hell is this a cosby showesqe case where there is a biracial child who is supposed to be the product of 2 black parents?
I'll even challenge that about the Cosby Show, the only issue I had was that Bill's characters parents were 2 lighter complexioned people, they should have been Clares parents.
Phylicia Allen is clearly a mixed person, both of her parent are mixed, her father is biracial. Debbie Allen is her sister. I've heard people trip on that way too much, even going as far to say Phylicia was just black. It's no issue to see a family like that may produce lighter skinned kids.
My aunt Trish has it like that. She is a light caramel colored woman and her husband is a light brown, their 1st daugher is about 6 shades lighter then they are, very fair skinned, the next daughter is a bit browner than the father and their son is even a bit brighter than the eldest daughter.
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for those who were offended by my comment on the new Lily, you need to stop and think about what I'm saying for a second. I'm black and I have no problems with people of mixed ethnicities and nobody is saying that being half white and half black makes you LESS black. Think for a sec, Christel Khalil is half black and half white but would she ever be hired to play the role of a white girl? Be proud of all your heritages. But at the same time, Lily Winters is a black character with two parents who are depicted as 100% black people. Why must they have a daughter who clearly looks mixed? In these daytime soaps where beautiful and glamorous people are the characters who lead these interesting lives, TV and casting crews seek to find the "neutrally" appealing faces. How often do we ever see a purely black woman who hasn't relaxed her hair or who takes pride (as a character) in her race? Lily Winters (I'm talking about the character not Christel Khalil) is a black girl, so why not hire someone who illustrates this? Its a slap in the face for young actresses who are black but don't get the part because they look "too black" or "too urban". Its bull**** and I've lived it. So before you get on your high horses about REALITY, look the problem in the face before running off scared and unable to tackle and FACE the issue. and so yes CHEERS they have a more black Lily Winters! Give that black character (yes, CHARACTER...one of the very FEW on Y&R) a black face: Devon is clearly mixed, his mother is clearly mixed somewhere along her family tree, Malcom (shemar moore) is clearly mixed, Damon was clearly mixed somewhere along his family tree so what's with the trend??? God Bless Olivia and Nate (oh where are they now by the way??) YES bring more multiculturalism onto the screen, light brown, dark brown, yellow, red whatever, but please, its about time the black characters had some black faces in Genoa City!!!
Wentworth Miller, Rashida Jones, and Jennifer Beals come to mind when I consider people of known African ancestry who have been cast a white in movies. I realize that this poster was commenting on a specific actress and suggesting that this particular actress would not have the option of being cast as a white character but if this poster is suggesting that the role of white characters are unavailable to those actors with African ancestry, then this poster is clearly mistaken.
Also, the picture above shows what looks like an all mulatto cast. I noticed that no one at the other messageboard seemed to mention that Victoria Rowell is biracial.
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for those who were offended by my comment on the new Lily, you need to stop and think about what I'm saying for a second. I'm black and I have no problems with people of mixed ethnicities and nobody is saying that being half white and half black makes you LESS black. Think for a sec, Christel Khalil is half black and half white but would she ever be hired to play the role of a white girl? Be proud of all your heritages. But at the same time, Lily Winters is a black character with two parents who are depicted as 100% black people. Why must they have a daughter who clearly looks mixed? In these daytime soaps where beautiful and glamorous people are the characters who lead these interesting lives, TV and casting crews seek to find the "neutrally" appealing faces. How often do we ever see a purely black woman who hasn't relaxed her hair or who takes pride (as a character) in her race? Lily Winters (I'm talking about the character not Christel Khalil) is a black girl, so why not hire someone who illustrates this? Its a slap in the face for young actresses who are black but don't get the part because they look "too black" or "too urban". Its bull**** and I've lived it. So before you get on your high horses about REALITY, look the problem in the face before running off scared and unable to tackle and FACE the issue. and so yes CHEERS they have a more black Lily Winters! Give that black character (yes, CHARACTER...one of the very FEW on Y&R) a black face: Devon is clearly mixed, his mother is clearly mixed somewhere along her family tree, Malcom (shemar moore) is clearly mixed, Damon was clearly mixed somewhere along his family tree so what's with the trend??? God Bless Olivia and Nate (oh where are they now by the way??) YES bring more multiculturalism onto the screen, light brown, dark brown, yellow, red whatever, but please, its about time the black characters had some black faces in Genoa City!!!
Wentworth Miller, Rashida Jones, and Jennifer Beals come to mind when I consider people of known African ancestry who have been cast a white in movies. I realize that this poster was commenting on a specific actress and suggesting that this particular actress would not have the option of being cast as a white character but if this poster is suggesting that the role of white characters are unavailable to those actors with African ancestry, then this poster is clearly mistaken.
Also, the picture above shows what looks like an all mulatto cast. I noticed that no one at the other messageboard seemed to mention that Victoria Rowell is biracial.
good point-- vin diesel is another one. he had a part in saving private ryan, he was a private in the same unit as tom hanks' character. it is a well know fact that military units were not integrated in WW2 and tom hanks was the head of a white unit.
like i said, i saw some of the most ignorant and racist statements on this board made in this thread-- a thread about, of all things, a soap opera family. people need to not sweat the small stuff-- if anything, we as mixed race people should be glad that they are casting mulattas (whether one w/ an olive complexion or one w/ a cinnamon complexion) to portray the offspring of mulattos. instead people pick it apart and make some incredibly offensive remarks (the one that i found the worst was that light skinned people are the result of massa raping a slave!). shame on you people who acted so inappropriately-- and you know who you are.
The funny thing is both look mixed. Just one looks more like what people consider the more sterotypical Black White mixed look.
i agree. they remind me of my own kids, especially my 2 youngest. malachi has that cinnamon, coppery complexion like the 2nd lily and asa has the olive, cafe au lait complexion.
and like you pointed out, in real life victoria rowell's daughter looks completely european, that's why it is so conceivable for her to be able to have a child with either skin tone.
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for those who were offended by my comment on the new Lily, you need to stop and think about what I'm saying for a second. I'm black and I have no problems with people of mixed ethnicities and nobody is saying that being half white and half black makes you LESS black. Think for a sec, Christel Khalil is half black and half white but would she ever be hired to play the role of a white girl? Be proud of all your heritages. But at the same time, Lily Winters is a black character with two parents who are depicted as 100% black people. Why must they have a daughter who clearly looks mixed? In these daytime soaps where beautiful and glamorous people are the characters who lead these interesting lives, TV and casting crews seek to find the "neutrally" appealing faces. How often do we ever see a purely black woman who hasn't relaxed her hair or who takes pride (as a character) in her race? Lily Winters (I'm talking about the character not Christel Khalil) is a black girl, so why not hire someone who illustrates this? Its a slap in the face for young actresses who are black but don't get the part because they look "too black" or "too urban". Its bull**** and I've lived it. So before you get on your high horses about REALITY, look the problem in the face before running off scared and unable to tackle and FACE the issue. and so yes CHEERS they have a more black Lily Winters! Give that black character (yes, CHARACTER...one of the very FEW on Y&R) a black face: Devon is clearly mixed, his mother is clearly mixed somewhere along her family tree, Malcom (shemar moore) is clearly mixed, Damon was clearly mixed somewhere along his family tree so what's with the trend??? God Bless Olivia and Nate (oh where are they now by the way??) YES bring more multiculturalism onto the screen, light brown, dark brown, yellow, red whatever, but please, its about time the black characters had some black faces in Genoa City!!!
Wentworth Miller, Rashida Jones, and Jennifer Beals come to mind when I consider people of known African ancestry who have been cast a white in movies. I realize that this poster was commenting on a specific actress and suggesting that this particular actress would not have the option of being cast as a white character but if this poster is suggesting that the role of white characters are unavailable to those actors with African ancestry, then this poster is clearly mistaken.
Also, the picture above shows what looks like an all mulatto cast. I noticed that no one at the other messageboard seemed to mention that Victoria Rowell is biracial.
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