Very interesting site! They are making their case to be regarded as White in the US, which makes sense as they probably are regarded as such in their originating countries. They want their whiteness back!
Quote:
The "black, white, or Hispanic" myth creates discrimination against white Hispanics. Unlike other "minorities," we are members of America's racial majority. We therefore might be completely accepted in mainstream America if not for defamatory lies originating not in the American people, but in the government and media
What is really interesting is that they are in no way challenging the ODR or the concept of races as distinct groups, they just don't want the government taking away their whiteness. The "better" table of racial categories on the site doesn't have any Latin American gradiation of the discrete races they have defined - you're Spanish-speaking White, Asian or Black. I wonder what the ethnicities of the site founders are?
Unlike other "minorities," we are members of America's racial majority.
GREAT!....
I'm delighted that they are admitting this.
Now, since 48% of "hispanics" identify their race as white, people can stop lying and saying that "hispanics" are the largest minority in the U.S, since half of them are majority americans. Additionally, all the white hispanics can stop getting the minority benefits that they take advantage of.
I'm gonna start publically calling them white now, to end this foolishness, so they can stop feigning minority status when its convenient for them under the guise of "hispanic" ethnicity.
Benicio Del Toro, Daisy Fuentez, Eva Longoria, ect..ect are white people.
Last edited by Phil345 on Mon 03 Jul 2006 02:53; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Mon 03 Jul 2006 02:46 Post subject: "White" Hispanics
Neither the pro nor anti-affirmative action people ask this question: If a person claims to be "white" as well as "Hispanic," shouldn't he be treated like other "whites" and denied "minority" benefits?
Hispanics are the only group in the United States that can claim both whiteness and racial minority status without being challenged.
2. Wouldn't such push everything back to square one?
~us
No it wouldnt.
....they should forget putting "hispanic orgin" altogether ; its meaningless. It should not make a difference what nation/linguistic origin a person is of, when tabulating race.
Joined: 24 Jun 2006 {Posts: 64 } Location: Tampa, Florida.
Posted: Mon 03 Jul 2006 04:12 Post subject:
Phil345 wrote:
If you're white, you're white.
I agree, and in Central and South America there is no One Drop Rule so some one who has predominantly European ancestry will always be considered white. For example there's no way in South America that somebody who is 7/8 white 1/8 Black would be classified as Black. They would be considered White because their phenotype is majority European.
Phil345 : They should forget putting "hispanic origin" altogether, it's meaningless. It should not make a difference what nation/linguistic origin a person is of, when tabulating race.
We agree that racial/ethnic identity is voluntary. According to the 2000 US Census, over 35 million people VOLUNTARILY identified themselves as Hispanic. I don't believe the goal of White identified Hispanics is to grant the US power to strip over 35 million people of their voluntary ethnic identity.
Quote:
Marcus_Aurelius : In Central and South America there is no One Drop Rule.
True. However, to quote Sagascend,"They are making their case to be regarded as White in the US," where ODR is alive and well.
Quote:
Salsassin : They may identify as White, but they are not treated as Anglo White. So they are still discriminated.
I agree, and in Central and South America there is no One Drop Rule so some one who has predominantly European ancestry will always be considered white. For example there's no way in South America that somebody who is 7/8 white 1/8 Black would be classified as Black. They would be considered White because their phenotype is majority European.
It is much more than just predominant ancestry. Whiteness in Latin America follows different paradigms than the US. So "If you are White, you are White" is baloney. That is like saying because Alicia Keys claims Black in the US she will be accepted as Black in Latin America. She isn't. But she is accepted as "American Black". Black by US standards. When you say Hispanic White, you are saying White by Hispanic standards.
An example. In PR, through gracias al sacar, which entailed having one progenitor that was white in each generation for the last four generations, you were officially White. One great great grand parent, one great grand parent, one grand parent, one parent. All the rest could be from Angola. That person was White.
And in other places matrilinealism also played a role. If you were born from a White woman you would be considered White on a much higher rate than if you were born from a non-white woman.
Finally, even people of pure European stock, but mountainous, many times are seen as having similar features to indigenous stock here and are treated accordingly.
So, no A Hispanic White is not automatically the same as American White. These cats are those who claim we are White by your standards, let us in the American racism club.
True. However, to quote Sagascend,"They are making their case to be regarded as White in the US," where ODR is alive and well.
If this were the case, why doesn't the ODR apply to Hispanics who are already here? Apparently it is alive and well for some but not for others.
Anyway, some months back I e-mailed the organization to get some information from them. My feeling was informed critiques are better than ill-informed ones. The organization never got back in touch with me.
Noone here knows how large this organization is or how influential it is in U.S. Hispanic communities. It's possible that it may not have much of a voice beyond the internet. Or its membership is made up of Hispanics from predominantly European-based countries like Uruguay and Argentina.
Finally, I'm sympathetic to some of what Phil345 is saying, but I doubt this organization will gain many supporters in the Hispanic communities in the U.S. for three reasons:
1. Many white Hispanics are members of ethnic groups/nationalities that are not predominantly white. Their identities may revolve around common culture and a sense of ethnicity. Therefore, they may feel more of camaraderie with their co ethnics than with white Americans. In the same way, many Hispanics who are black-looking by our standards have nothing in common culturally with American blacks and identify with fellow Hispanics or their co ethnics. Puerto Ricans who reside here on the mainland come to mind.
2. The racial spoils system in America grants certain benefits to groups defined as disadvantaged, regardless of the socio-economic status or racial background of the individual in the disadvantaged group. Hence, it is in the interests of white Hispanics, especially if they come from an ethnicity that is predominantly non-European in origin, to play the role of "person of color". Many Hispanics I know are white or non-white depending on how advantageous it is for them in a given situation.
People like Daisy Fuentes or Gloria Estefan are the grandchildren of Spanish immigrants who migrated to Cuba. Both have relatives on both sides of their families in Spain, yet both could qualify for minority scholarships because they are Hispanic.
The wealthy Fanjul family was involved in sugar cultivation and refining in Cuba. After Castro's takeover, they replanted themselves in the U.S. and are sugar barons here. The family, which is as white as any white American from the Midwest, benefits from minority set asides because they are Hispanic. They own and operate the Flo-Sun corporation.
In some states the status of Hispanic or minority even extends to people directly from Spain or Portugal. In parts of New York, specifically where I lived, a lot of street construction was contracted out to Portuguese-owned companies. Many or perhaps most of these companies were given preferential treatment in bidding because they were legally minority owned.
3. Many white Hispanics who may identify as such don't put as much stock in their whiteness as other white Hispanics. As Salassin stated, if they are members of predominantly non-white Hispanic groups and associate with their fellow members, they may be perceived in the same way non-white co ethnics are and treated accordingly. This may lead to a strengthening of a more ethnic identity rooted in common culture and language as opposed to a solely racial one.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Mon 03 Jul 2006 14:01 Post subject: White hispanics
Hi,
Just a personal oppinion.
As a Hispanic that might be putted into the Box of White Americans (with certain considerations and If I lived there) I have to say the following. Most of us do not identify with White Americans at all. They are a people different to us in every respect. The more important is mentality and values.
The worst thing a Latino can do is wanted to become a "gringo". The only idea of that sounds disgusting in our ears. Not because we downplay WASP people at all, but because we have fresh in our memory centuries of abuses from the North to our countries, and we have not forgetten and not forgiven those abuses as yet.
Yes, Shakira, Linda Cristal or Gloria Estefan can be very Americans because they know how to play theirs rules, however, they know they are from this land and they will never forget it.
So, no A Hispanic White is not automatically the same as American White. These cats are those who claim we are White by your standards, let us in the American racism club.
"White" in the united states, is not synonymous with Anglo-Saxon; I dont understand what you mean when you say "American White" when there are white people here of many different national origins.
The "hispanics", who identify as white, are as white as any other American (Italian Americans, Franco-Americans, Scandinavians, German, ect..), and often share the same ancestry as them. Being from spanish speaking country should not make them a "minority", and I dont understand why they are singled out in this respect.
Historically they have been "white" in the United States, and they should go back to being white, and stop faking this "hispanic" minority crap.
urban scribe wrote:
True. However, to quote Sagascend,"They are making their case to be regarded as White in the US," where ODR is alive and well.
Theres no one drop rule...anybody has the right to identify as whatever they like, and most people have never even heard of a "one drop rule" to begin with; thats gone, and long been forgotten about.
Hispanics that identify as white, need to be regarded as whites.
Posted: Mon 03 Jul 2006 23:23 Post subject: Re: White hispanics
oevega wrote:
Hi,
Most of us do not identify with White Americans at all. They are a people different to us in every respect. The more important is mentality and values.
White does not imply a specific culture of people, the white people here in America come from many different nationalities and cultures. Being racially white in america does not imply that one is the same as all the other "white americans".
Quote:
The worst thing a Latino can do is wanted to become a "gringo". The only idea of that sounds disgusting in our ears. Not because we downplay WASP people at all
Omar
Your error is in thinking that American "whites" are a uniform group of WASPs. Greeks, Armeinians, Russians, Sicilians, Portuguese, French, Ukranians, Italians, in addition to WASPs make up the white population here in the U.S. The "hispanic" whites are no different, their cultural dissimilarity from WASPs is not a reason to distiguish them from rest.
Posted: Mon 03 Jul 2006 23:56 Post subject: Re: White hispanics
oevega wrote:
Hi,
Just a personal oppinion.
As a Hispanic that might be putted into the Box of White Americans (with certain considerations and If I lived there) I have to say the following. Most of us do not identify with White Americans at all. They are a people different to us in every respect. The more important is mentality and values.
The worst thing a Latino can do is wanted to become a "gringo". The only idea of that sounds disgusting in our ears. Not because we downplay WASP people at all, but because we have fresh in our memory centuries of abuses from the North to our countries, and we have not forgetten and not forgiven those abuses as yet.
Yes, Shakira, Linda Cristal or Gloria Estefan can be very Americans because they know how to play theirs rules, however, they know they are from this land and they will never forget it.
Perhaps one day things change, but not by now.
Regards,
Omar
Omar,
Man every time I read one of your posts you're talking about what Hispanics remember.
Question: How does Pedro remember something that happened 10 million years ago? And if so when is he going to stop forgetting all that and realize there's much more bunda in Brazil?
Posted: Tue 04 Jul 2006 00:13 Post subject: Re: White hispanics
Phil345 wrote:
Your error is in thinking that American "whites" are a uniform group of WASPs. Greeks, Armeinians, Russians, Sicilians, Portuguese, French, Ukranians, Italians, in addition to WASPs make up the white population here in the U.S. The "hispanic" whites are no different, their cultural dissimilarity from WASPs is not a reason to distiguish them from rest.
You both have a point. But in the end the greater weight of the argument sides with Omar.
Why? Because the term gringo is applicable to me (U.S. mulatto) and to all people born or bred up in U.S. culture - which is signficantly Anglo-Saxon influenced culture as oppossed to the Latin influenced cultures of Latin America and Spain. Both the U.S. and Latin America have mixed culture from all the various ethnic/racial influences in their respective regional histories. However U.S. culture is much more Anglo-Saxon influenced the Hispanic-Portugese world. In fact "Hispanic" was hoist upon Latin Americans by encouragement from Spain to impress upon the Latin Americans their European cultural roots to Spain in contrast to the Anglo-Saxon world in the Americas.
Italians from Italy are much different from Italian Americans, often which begins in the differences of first names: "Frank" as opposed to "Paulo" for example. Over the generations Italians have assimilated into U.S. culture and racial structures. But this was not so of the first generations of Italian immigrants. One could look at the early history of warring gangs between various white ethnic immigrant groups in the U.S.
"White" in the united states, is not synonymous with Anglo-Saxon; I dont understand what you mean when you say "American White" when there are white people here of many different national origins.
White in the US means Anglo Saxon accepted. Italians, Irish, Poles, all had to become White. THey were not automatically White in this country.
Sorry, but you are speaking of a reality you obvioulsy don't understand.
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GREAT!....
Omar,
