First of all I want to say that I realize that the author of the the thread MulattoKid was pretty rude. His post sounded kinda nationalistic so it's no supprise that he got some angry replies, but theres a difference between a simply angry reply and an absolute hate filled reply which is what 3 out of 4 replies to his post are. Also I agree with him in that there does seem to be quite a few Afro-Americans in the forum preaching Afrocentrism and One droppism to the Afro-Brazilians, those two Posters who spewed out all the anti-mulatto garbage in their replies are both Afro-Americans and not Afro-Brazilians, as a matter of fact they're probably Black Nationalist/Black Supremist of some kind. MulattoKid's post was provocative but if you browse through some of the other post in the forum you'll see those same two posters saying negative things about Mulattos even in threads that are not as provocative as the one Mulattokid made.
It is shocking to me just how hostile some black Americans can be towards mulattos just for not wanting to be black identified.
I find the mulattokid's skewed erroneous view of history to be the most shocking:
Mulattokid wrote:
Up intill 1850 there were hundreds of thousands of mulatos in the us who called themselves just that. But once the civil war took place the whites forced us all into the black communities where the blacks beat us and battered us until sadly, we gave in and called ourselves colored. Over time the blacks started using that word for themselves because they didnt like being who they are and wanted to be mixed. So they took that from us too. Finally we were left with nothing, and when the civil rights movement came about in the 1960s mulato traitors like malcolm x convinced the true colored people (not blacks) to start callign themselves blacks so that they wouldnt be uncle toms (people who love whites) and so that blacks could be uplifted in the eyes of the white community.
...a prime example of how people skew/distort/lie about history in ways that suit their personal agenda.
Last edited by Phil345 on Tue 04 Jul 2006 18:42; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 24 Jun 2006 {Posts: 64 } Location: Tampa, Florida.
Posted: Tue 04 Jul 2006 18:44 Post subject:
Phil345 wrote:
I find the mulattokid's skewed erroneous view of history to be the most shocking:
Mulattokid wrote:
Up intill 1850 there were hundreds of thousands of mulatos in the us who called themselves just that. But once the civil war took place the whites forced us all into the black communities where the blacks beat us and battered us until sadly, we gave in and called ourselves colored. Over time the blacks started using that word for themselves because they didnt like being who they are and wanted to be mixed. So they took that from us too. Finally we were left with nothing, and when the civil rights movement came about in the 1960s mulato traitors like malcolm x convinced the true colored people (not blacks) to start callign themselves blacks so that they wouldnt be uncle toms (people who love whites) and so that blacks could be uplifted in the eyes of the white community.
...a prime example of how people skew/distort/lie about history in ways that suit their personal agenda.
I post on Brazzil.com from time to time. :O I had no idea Mulattokid was posting on there. I shall have to check out the thread when I have more time, and post on there to support him if indeed such support is called for.
Meet the sword with the sword I say.
I do think sometimes Mulattokid might be a little to zealous in his approach or comments and that even his age might not allow him a fuller view of some of life's greater picture. However he is a great young man, with a great mind, and is not filled with hate but driven by a passion resulting from the pains of his own experiences as a U.S. mulatto and the want for justice in life. And that is a good thing, not a bad thing.
I find the mulattokid's skewed erroneous view of history to be the most shocking:
Mulattokid wrote:
Up intill 1850 there were hundreds of thousands of mulatos in the us who called themselves just that. But once the civil war took place the whites forced us all into the black communities where the blacks beat us and battered us until sadly, we gave in and called ourselves colored. Over time the blacks started using that word for themselves because they didnt like being who they are and wanted to be mixed. So they took that from us too. Finally we were left with nothing, and when the civil rights movement came about in the 1960s mulato traitors like malcolm x convinced the true colored people (not blacks) to start callign themselves blacks so that they wouldnt be uncle toms (people who love whites) and so that blacks could be uplifted in the eyes of the white community.
...a prime example of how people skew/distort/lie about history in ways that suit their personal agenda.
I find the mulattokid's skewed erroneous view of history to be the most shocking:
Mulattokid wrote:
Up intill 1850 there were hundreds of thousands of mulatos in the us who called themselves just that. But once the civil war took place the whites forced us all into the black communities where the blacks beat us and battered us until sadly, we gave in and called ourselves colored. Over time the blacks started using that word for themselves because they didnt like being who they are and wanted to be mixed. So they took that from us too. Finally we were left with nothing, and when the civil rights movement came about in the 1960s mulato traitors like malcolm x convinced the true colored people (not blacks) to start callign themselves blacks so that they wouldnt be uncle toms (people who love whites) and so that blacks could be uplifted in the eyes of the white community.
[]
...a prime example of how people skew/distort/lie about history in ways that suit their personal agenda.
I would be interested to see Phil345's re-written version of Mulattokid's paragraph -- Mulatto history according to Phil345 summarized?
I think the central message in Mulattokid's paragraph is true: In the decade before our American Civil War Mulatto (free only, no slaves) was a recognized "between-race" (especially so in the South), socially "bridging" between free peoples "black" and "white." (Slaves did not count in the "races" calculus. They barely were in the human race.) It is true that Reconstruction-era Mulattos and Creole Southerners struggled to hold on to their "in-between" privileges. They struggled against the ODR "one-drop rule's" slow advance from the North, where "race differences" social obsession had substituted for slavery for almost a century.
Racial inequality has been part of American life at least since pro-"white" biases began appearing in Virginia colonial legislation in 1705. An act of that legislature banned "negros, mulattos, or Indians ...." from purchasing/owning Christian "complexion" servants/slaves. The bias we know as "hypodescent" prevented individuals of fractional "black blood" (e.g, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8) identifying as "white" persons, or enjoying rights and status of "white" (e.g., marrying "white"). Much more tolerant rules traditionally accepted fractional Indian "blood" as "white." Mexicans became a sizable American minority, in the Southwest, with the treaty ending the War With Mexico. The treaty gave them U.S. citizenship that under antebellum rules implied "whiteness." Latino in the 1960's, the time of MLK and Malcom X, were still being automatically classified "white." Unfortunately, the famous civil rights leaders made no effort to deconstruct the "color line" or question "races" using the evidence of themselves as Mulattos or the free admixture plain in "whites" with visible Indian or Mexican "blood" (dark from Africa). It is true the ODR was law in about 17 southern states when Malcom X was railing against "whites." The OD-Law toppled, though, on June 12, 1967. (Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1). Zack may, I think, rightly criticize civil rights leaders for not helping. (They didn't help a whit. The ODR & "anti-miscegenation" were brought down by a lone interracial couple & the ACLU). Mulatto leaders did not foresee the end of the ODR. They did not react; 39 years on, for "black leadership" it's still "business as usual."
Why an endogamous "color line" came into existence between colonial "whites" and their neighbors is another story. It may be a three-part story.
Part One may be the Inherited Slavery Law (partus sequitur ventrum), which Virginia Colony legislated in 1662, purposed to stop Mulatto children from acceding to their English father's free social status by operation of the common law. The same colonial legislature then enacted a law punishing Christian-and-Negro fornication with a doubled fine. (Marriages across the "color line" by the free remained legal, though, as always before, and evidently such marriages were prolific for another 29 years.)
Part Two of "Whence the Enduring 'Color-Line'?" might be Virginia Colony legislation of 1691 criminalizing "white" exogamy, with nasty slurring against "that abominable mixture and spurious issue." This law apparently furthered a planter elite grip-on-power insurance scheme, by splitting vertically (socially) the Chesapeake colonies along the "color line" for firmer control over the servile class. It worked by color-marking the slaves so that the "white" planters could feel confidently protected by "white" yeomen. See Frank Sweet essays:
Antebellum Louisiana and Alabama: Two Color Lines, Three Endogamous Groups http://backintyme.com/Essay041015.htm Why Did Virginia’s Rulers Invent a Color Line? http://backintyme.com/ODR/viewtopic.php?p=4599#4599
Part Three of the story "Why An Endogamous 'Color Line'?" may be the widely embraced "scientific" classification scheme of "races" offered by several 18th-Century naturalists. Most notable was Johann Blumenbach, who named the Caucasian and Mongoloid "races" and the others, and who connected the old word "race" (Latin-French "roots") to Carrolus Linnaeus's concept of subspecies in his renowned binary taxonomy, which today organizes the life-sciences. This touch of folk "science" seemingly fueled racism into a conflagration by inculcating fears of "differences" (genetic inequalities) attributed to "races"; and also fanning dread of "white race" destruction following "amalgamation" of "the races." Science's prestige had grown, partly substituting it for religion after the Enlightenment. With lynching fervor, fear raged after 1900 that "black blood" "passing" into "white" threatened the "Race" with incremental contamination. Many people, perceiving a Divine Plan or a nameless scientific dread ("miscegenation," "that abominable mixture and spurious issue"), were determined the "amalgamation" would not happen on their watch. The "safeguards" they erected are remembered as Jim Crow.
Mulattokid's calling 1960's civil rights leaders "traitors" lacks diplomacy. But giving Zack his due, I would surmise he meant only to deplore the fact the great Mulatto leaders of the 1960's did not do more to rebuild the social-racial "bridge" that being Mulatto is, and which role racially blended people only now are starting -- cautiously (against strenuous Hypodescent-ODR opposition) -- to play again as they did in the 1850s.
George
The problem is that they were not ethnically Mulatto. They were Black. Being mixed didn't automatically mean you belonged to a mulatto community. Even before Jim Crow.
Joined: 24 Jun 2006 {Posts: 64 } Location: Tampa, Florida.
Posted: Wed 05 Jul 2006 06:36 Post subject:
e harmoni wrote:
I post on Brazzil.com from time to time. :O I had no idea Mulattokid was posting on there. I shall have to check out the thread when I have more time, and post on there to support him if indeed such support is called for.
Meet the sword with the sword I say.
I do think sometimes Mulattokid might be a little to zealous in his approach or comments and that even his age might not allow him a fuller view of some of life's greater picture. However he is a great young man, with a great mind, and is not filled with hate but driven by a passion resulting from the pains of his own experiences as a U.S. mulatto and the want for justice in life. And that is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Semper.
I noticed you registered there and stood up for MulattoKid, you and salsassin both although Salsassin was already registered there before I posted the link to the forum, and Salsassin seemed to remain neutral, he didn't take sides with MulatoKid or the Black Nationalist who were attacking him. I think you presented a good argument but unfortunatly the only one to respond to you is the most recent registered Mulatto hater Billygee.
And speaking of Billygee, I don't know about you but I strongly suspect that billygee is somebody from this forum. Because according to the info at the Brazzil forum he just registered there yesterday which is of course the same day I posted the link to the Brazzil forum. Now that could just be a coincidence but I don't think so. I believe he is one of the resident One droppist here at ODR.
Joined: 24 Jun 2006 {Posts: 64 } Location: Tampa, Florida.
Posted: Wed 05 Jul 2006 08:40 Post subject:
Whats really sickening is the way these Black Nationalist at the Brazzil forum tell Mulattos that if they're not going to Identify as Black then they need to get out of the U.S. I mean who the hell do they think they are? Personaly, I think that if they such a problem with Mulattos or any racial or ethnic group choosing their own identity then they are the ones who should leave America because that goes against one of America's most sacred values.
Whats really sickening is the way these Black Nationalist at the Brazzil forum tell Mulattos that if they're not going to Identify as Black then they need to get out of the U.S. Mad I mean who the hell do they think they are?
Salsassin wrote:
Yes, anyone that claims others have to identify as one thing are wrong. Be they White, Black, Mixed, or other.
Mulattokid wrote:
"Up intill 1850 there were hundreds of thousands of mulatos in the us who called themselves just that. ..."
Salsassin wrote:
The problem is that they were not ethnically Mulatto. They were Black. Being mixed didn't automatically mean you belonged to a mulatto community. Even before Jim Crow.
Whats really sickening is the way these Black Nationalist at the Brazzil forum tell Mulattos that if they're not going to Identify as Black then they need to get out of the U.S. Mad I mean who the hell do they think they are?
Salsassin wrote:
Yes, anyone that claims others have to identify as one thing are wrong. Be they White, Black, Mixed, or other.
Mulattokid wrote:
"Up intill 1850 there were hundreds of thousands of mulatos in the us who called themselves just that. ..."
Salsassin wrote:
The problem is that they were not ethnically Mulatto. They were Black. Being mixed didn't automatically mean you belonged to a mulatto community. Even before Jim Crow.
There were people who identified as mulatos, there were also mixed people that through whatever circumstances identified as Black. Feel free to show me all people of mixed ancestry automatically were identified as mulato.
I post on Brazzil.com from time to time. :O I had no idea Mulattokid was posting on there. I shall have to check out the thread when I have more time, and post on there to support him if indeed such support is called for.
Meet the sword with the sword I say.
I do think sometimes Mulattokid might be a little to zealous in his approach or comments and that even his age might not allow him a fuller view of some of life's greater picture. However he is a great young man, with a great mind, and is not filled with hate but driven by a passion resulting from the pains of his own experiences as a U.S. mulatto and the want for justice in life. And that is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Semper.
I noticed you registered there and stood up for MulattoKid, you and salsassin both although Salsassin was already registered there before I posted the link to the forum, and Salsassin seemed to remain neutral, he didn't take sides with MulatoKid or the Black Nationalist who were attacking him. I think you presented a good argument but unfortunatly the only one to respond to you is the most recent registered Mulatto hater Billygee.
And speaking of Billygee, I don't know about you but I strongly suspect that billygee is somebody from this forum. Because according to the info at the Brazzil forum he just registered there yesterday which is of course the same day I posted the link to the Brazzil forum. Now that could just be a coincidence but I don't think so. I believe he is one of the resident One droppist here at ODR.
Yeah... I post on Brazzil.com. But on every different Brazzil.com board I have to register spelling e hamony a different way .
I don't really go onto the race board though, because that is of less interest to me, so generally I'm posting on a different area of the Brazzil.com giving accolades to the Brasileiras bunda either that or disputing some negative remarks or inferences about Brazil by some racist White gringo.
I'm not as hard-charger for a separate racial category for Mulattos as some, although I do support it, but mainly through moral support. Being Mulatto in the U.S. I know some of the struggles as well as benefits that have come with that. Overall it is quite tough being Mulatto in the U.S. for a number of reasons not least of which is that there is no societal structure to help you come to terms and understand who you are, and how that relates to the world around you, in a positive constructive manner. Literally many of us have to discover and teach ourselves everything we know relating to who we are racially and as human beings in this entire social fabric of the U.S.. Even the Black people in the U.S. have a solid social structure that mentors them through out the entire process of their lives. The same is true of the Latinos in the U.S. in their various hues such as the Puerto Ricans. Imagine a Puerto Rican that had no "Puerto Ricans" but continuously recieves negative messages about who he or she is because of their mixture, other than recieving constant messages that their own worth-while worth comes in their sexual use by others (be they male or female).
I really believe much of the reasons for MulatoKid's disparging remarks about Black Americans in general, results from the fact he like most Mulattos have no social structures to mentor him through the travials of racial life in the Unites States and hence is metaphorically left out in a wilderness to discover, learn, and teach himself. The consequence of this, especially in more youthful age, is that one will make many more mistakes than those that have a solid mentorship. However with the advent of the internet and message boards like this and others related to mixedrace peoples, a cyber social structure that creates the possibility of mentorship (in limited regards) has emerged.
The Black side of my family has suffered major affects from the social structures of slavery in the U.S. (which said structures pass on emtional and psychological factors) and certainly much issues to do with being Black and especially dark skin and Black. I was told my fathers grandmother never liked seeing him and his siblings because as she stated she "never wanted grandchildren that dark." So I'm aware and empathize with the afflictions Black Americans - many at least - have suffered. However Mulattos have their own sufferings too. I empathize with both.
Rather than bash, Zach, who's motivation really comes from hurt and pain and ther desire to be allowed to have healthy self-esteem, it is better to reign him in like an old wise lion. You neither abandon a good soldier nor break their heart or destroy their morale, you hone a good young soldier into a better effective.
Be Billygee from here or else where, it doesn't matter, I've been out in the racial woods on my own, I know how to cut down trees.
I really believe much of the reasons for MulatoKid's disparging remarks about Black Americans in general, results from the fact he like most Mulattos have no social structures to mentor him through the travials of racial life in the Unites States and hence is metaphorically left out in a wilderness to discover, learn, and teach himself. The consequence of this, especially in more youthful age, is that one will make many more mistakes than those that have a solid mentorship. However with the advent of the internet and message boards like this and others related to mixedrace peoples, a cyber social structure that creates the possibility of mentorship (in limited regards) has emerged.
When two people have a child they produce a combination that has not existed before - something unique. We put a racial spin on this biological fact and pass all kinds of pathology onto children. Blame his parents and family. The only insulation that Black children have against a world is a solid family structure and/or individuals who care about them. The same goes for any child, but obviously it is important for children whose parents have crossed a societal boundary by getting together. Many such children had neither and don't spew racist vitriol on message boards.
I for one, do not have limitless patience with angry people who lash out blaming groups of people for what a few people have done to them. I could do the same, and could count more Black people among them even though I identify as Black too. I don't hate Black people because of it. I could also point fingers at the biracial/mulatto/mixed people who made my life hell but I'd rather focus on the people from the same background who are my true friends and allies in this world. These sad idiots, some of whom are my family members, have no prominent place in my psyche anymore, but it didn't take pride in a racial identity to accomplish that feat.
My hope for Zack is that he learns to divorce people from their politics and issues and treat them as individuals. He likely responds positively to people who treat him as such but all these people are not going to be mulatto. I hope he doesn't lose himself again when a mulatto person breaks his heart or disappoints him in some way. That's what happens when you put your faith into a culture/ethnicity/race instead of something more fundamental. Hopefully he can discover that well-adjusted people come in all colors if he would only open his mind and stop letting the hurt rule his behavior.
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I mean who the hell do they think they are? Personaly, I think that if they such a problem with Mulattos or any racial or ethnic group choosing their own identity then they are the ones who should leave America because that goes against one of America's most sacred values.