Posted: Tue 05 Sep 2006 17:03 Post subject: Old Blog Post: "Black Chicks"
Many years ago, conservative bloggist Libertyblog posted a comment regarding "Black" women on his blogsite:
Quote:
BLACK CHICKS: I was perusing FHM’s list of the 100 Sexiest Women in the World 2002 in search of a story—the things I do for my readers—when I noticed how white they are. According to our race-obsessed Census Bureau, over 12 percent of Americans are black, but the mostly-US readership of FHM selected only 8 black women:
#3: Halle Berry—Actress
#21: Beyoncé Knowles—Singer
#23: Tyra Banks—Model
#34: Janet Jackson—Singer
#36: Mariah Carey—Singer, Weirdo
#80: Alicia Keys—Singer
#82: Aaliyah—Singer, Corpse (alas)
#85: Samantha Mumba—Singer
Even the above list is a little misleading, because a quick visit to MixedFolks.com revealed that four of these women (Halle, Mariah, Alicia, and Samantha) are decidedly biracial, having one African and one European parent. I use the phrase decidedly biracial after having seen this article that discusses DNA testing. A study of the genetic makeup of 3,000 Americans reveals how racially mixed we really are:
Among self-identified whites in Shriver’s sample, the average black admixture is only 0.7 percent. That’s the equivalent of having among your 128 great-great-great-great-great-grandparents (who lived around two centuries ago), 127 whites and one black.
It appears that 70 percent of whites have no African ancestors. Among the 30 percent who do, the black admixture is around 2.3 percent, which would be like having about three black ancestors out of those 128.
In contrast, African-Americans are much more racially mixed than European-Americans. Yet, Shriver’s study shows that they are less European that was previously believed.
Earlier, cruder studies, done before direct genetic testing was feasible, suggested that African-Americans were 25 or even 30 percent white. Shriver’s project is not complete, but with data from 25 sites already in, he is coming up with 17-18 percent white ancestry among African-Americans. That’s the equivalent of 106 of those 128 of your ancestors from seven generations ago having been Africans and 22 Europeans.
According to Shriver, only about 10 percent of African-Americans are over 50 percent white.
Of course, another way of looking at these data is that a limited amount of black ancestry is enough to make you “look black” from the standpoint of identification. The “one drop” rule may have been ugly from a social and legal perspective, but perhaps reflected a practical reality. Getting back to our list: Does the mixing of races create an exotic look that has helped these four women? Perhaps there’s a “best of both worlds” effect that helps set these women apart.
But why the shortage of black women overall? One simple explanation would be that the readership of FHM is skewed towards white men and their standards of beauty are rooted in the familiar. But maybe it’s because black women just aren’t as pretty. Consider another piece written by the author of the DNA article above, Steve Sailer, discussing why interracial marriage shortchanges black women and Asian men. He posits some universal standards of beauty that leaves black women behind because of their physiognomy:
By emphasizing how society encourages us to marry people like ourselves, sociologists miss half the picture: by definition, heterosexual attraction thrives on differences ... Opposites attract. And certain race/sex pairings seem to be more opposite than others. The force driving these skewed husband - wife proportions appears to be differences in perceived sexual attractiveness. On average, black men tend to appear slightly more and Asian men slightly less masculine than white men, while Asian women are typically seen as slightly more and black women as slightly less feminine than white women.
Sailer specifically cites height, hair length, and muscularity as disadvantages for black women—and advantages for Asian women. The only problem with this theory in our case? The list of 100 contains only two Asian women: Lucy Liu (#19)
and Zhang Ziyi (#91)
.
Last edited by srbbgirl on Tue 03 Oct 2006 19:49; edited 3 times in total
I'm sorry, based on anecdotal, multi-generational evidence among the Black women in my family and friends, this is a load of crap. No attractive Black woman I know has any problems attracting White men and dating/marrying them if she chooses to. Most Black women are so worried about finding an IBM (Ideal Black Man) they don't even consider non-Black men as potential mates. This is changing.
Heterosexual Black women, by and large, seek Black mates. Heterosexual Black men, hypermasculine or not, see Black mates. I have spoken to many White men who would love to date Black women but believe these women would not be interested in them. So the conclusion that White men are not interested in Black women because they are "less attractive" is bogus. There seems to be a mutual lack of interest in crossing the color line if we consider B-W exogamy rates.
Mainstream society celebrates European standards of beauty. Not Asian and not African. Also not Latino, but to some extent the standard in these cultures is European as well so there is compatibility.
Steve Sailer, besides being a monumental idiot IMO, has missed the mark once again.
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 {Posts: 300 } Location: Chatsworth, CA
Posted: Thu 07 Sep 2006 00:31 Post subject:
Sailer dated African girls - Cameroonian and Senegalese, IIRC, in college - according to his blog. Leads me to suspect that he's dealing with some deep seated issues when he writes about race.
Possible, but then dispite what he's written about race, he's not personally opposed to interracial marriage. His 2000 article, "Is Love Colorblind?", touched on some issues that resonated with me based on my own experience and the experiences of others I know.
sagascend wrote:
Heterosexual Black women, by and large, seek Black mates. Heterosexual Black men, hypermasculine or not, see Black mates. I have spoken to many White men who would love to date Black women but believe these women would not be interested in them. So the conclusion that White men are not interested in Black women because they are "less attractive" is bogus. There seems to be a mutual lack of interest in crossing the color line if we consider B-W exogamy rates.
If there is a mutual lack of interest, which appears to be the case, then it is reasonable to assume many white men aren't interested in black women. But I agree that there are more white men who are interested in black women than many black people think, and not just the light-skinned ones.
sagascend wrote:
Mainstream society celebrates European standards of beauty. Not Asian and not African. Also not Latino, but to some extent the standard in these cultures is European as well so there is compatibility.
This appears to be the case, but many Asians and quite a few Latinos approach those standards: straight long hair, aquiline features, etc. I suspect Asian women are seen by most white men as more attractive than black women on average, at least in the U.S. The "Latin look"-dark European or light mestizo (Eva Langoria, Jennifer Lopez) seems to be catching on as well, but both will never challenge the supremacy of the Nordic blond woman in our culture. However, based on my own experiences with white men as co-workers and friends, their standard of beauty has become more inclusive over the years. In some instances, Asian women are giving white women a run for their money.
On the other hand in Europe, depending on which part of Europe, African American women would be aggressively pursued by men.
Interestingly, black men, or at least most of the black men I've come across, don't appear to be as interested in white women as many "blacker than thou" types and others allege. And when they are, the white women they consider attractive would fall far short of what white men consider ideal.
There seems to be an attraction to the Euro-African or mulatto look (the ideal “black female look” for many white men in the U.S.), but less so compared to when I was younger.
If there is a mutual lack of interest, which appears to be the case, then it is reasonable to assume many white men aren't interested in black women. But I agree that there are more white men who are interested in black women than many black people think, and not just the light-skinned ones.
Maybe this comes from living in Europe for so long, but in my experience European men especially go for darkskinned Black women just as much as light-skinned, if not more often. In the U.S. there is still a taboo associated with B-W dating/intermarriage. It will be interesting to see how many more Black female/White male pairings will result from increased integration in the workplace, especially in professional/white-collar contexts.
And you're right - I'd say the majority of White men are not interested in Black women....for marriage. For casual dating and sex I'd say the interest is much higher.
G-Man wrote:
However, based on my own experiences with white men as co-workers and friends, their standard of beauty has become more inclusive over the years. In some instances, Asian women are giving white women a run for their money.
This is interesting to me. Lurking on some internet boards about interracial dating, I have noticed that White women (especially on the West coast) have started to speak out against what they see as an "Asian fetish" among White men. Aside from appearance, it seems common for White men to say that they prefer Asian women because they are "more feminine" and "not competitive" like American White women. I laughed about it because it sounded very similar to the reasons some Black men give fore not dating Black women. IMO there is a similarity in the kinds of people providing these types of justifications for dating outside of their cultural group - it's not really about race/culture or the preference being "real." It seems to be a reaction to having been hurt or treated poorly.
G-Man wrote:
On the other hand in Europe, depending on which part of Europe, African American women would be aggressively pursued by men.
One word: Italy.
G-Man wrote:
Interestingly, black men, or at least most of the black men I've come across, don't appear to be as interested in white women as many "blacker than thou" types and others allege. And when they are, the white women they consider attractive would fall far short of what white men consider ideal.
This is true. I wish I could find and post this satirical poem I read once. I don't even know who wrote it but it was written from the point of view of a Black man who only wanted White women. One line was something like "she's fat so there is more White to love." Hilarious.
G-Man wrote:
There seems to be an attraction to the Euro-African or mulatto look (the ideal “black female look” for many white men in the U.S.), but less so compared to when I was younger.
I agree. The popularity of hip hop music and videos probably has a lot to do with that. One really didn't see many beautiful Black women of all shades in mainstream media prior to that. Believe me I am not happy about the objectification, but since women are usually objectified in the media I suppose it can be considered progress that the standard is broadening.
Funny you should mention Italy. My sister and a former work mate of mine from New York (African American) have both traveled to Italy and mentioned that black American women are seen as very desirable over there.
An Italian friend of my sister's, who only dated black women when he was living briefly in the U.S., claimed that Italians (he was from Naples) considered black Americans stylish and that was part of the attraction. Many Italians apparently are enamored of many aspects of African American culture.
Joined: 24 Jun 2006 {Posts: 64 } Location: Tampa, Florida.
Posted: Thu 07 Sep 2006 18:55 Post subject:
I've never been to Europe but I've heard that in France and Italy WM/BW couples out number BM/WW couples. This makes me think that French and Southern European men are more attracted to black women than Northern European men are. I heard North European countries like Britian and Germany both have more BM/WW couples just as the U.S. does. Although even in Britian the gap between BM/WW & WM/BW Couples isn't as big as it is in America. For example Statistics in Britian show that 50% of Black Men are married to White Women and 35% of Black Women are married to white men. So even though it's still higher for BM/WW the differance isn't near as big as in the U.S., where BM/WW couples out number WM/BW couples by about 3 to 1. It is said that the main reason why WM/BW couples are far less common in America is mainly due to historical reasons.
So even though it's still higher for BM/WW the differance isn't near as big as in the U.S., where BM/WW couples out number WM/BW couples by about 3 to 1.
For example Statistics in Britian show that 50% of Black Men are married to White Women and 35% of Black Women are married to white men.
wow....they're gonna completely disappear before too long.
I believe it is 40% and 20% respectively. I'll search for the actual data. In reading some article by Steven Sailer about this, he suggested that residential patterns and the assimilation of black immigrants and their children into British working class culture were possible reasons for these high percentages for both genders.
It might be me, but it also seems that black/white interracial couples are more visible in British media.
I don't think there will be any disappearance of black people in Britain. Most black men and women still marry other blacks, and immigration will add to those numbers.
I don't think there will be any disappearance of black people in Britain. Most black men and women still marry other blacks, and immigration will add to those numbers.
Not enough to maintain a black population. From what it looks like, blacks in the UK are not an endogamous group like the other immigrant populations are. I read yesterday that 40% of the "black" children born in the UK have a white parent... 40 PERCENT . If they keep going at that rate there will be very few black people left in 3 generations.
...thats bordering on ethnic suicide. They will breed themselves out before too long.
Joined: 28 Apr 2006 {Posts: 282 } Location: 51st State
Posted: Sat 09 Sep 2006 12:30 Post subject:
I sometimes think one of the reasons people are shocked that there is a sizeable black population in the UK, is because the community and family structure is so broken down. Still, everybody takes their selection between the need to reproduce and ethnic suicide.
The National Statistics page on inter-ethnic marriage show a combined Black Carribean-Black Other figure of around 40% Black male and 25% black female. Other national surveys, due to the low marriage rates among blacks, present the question in terms of partnering and/or cohabitation, resulting in the often touted 50% male and 30% out-marriage statistic.
So yes, the Black or the Mixed ethnic groups in Britain are well on their way to being genetically assimilated into the host population.
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 {Posts: 300 } Location: Chatsworth, CA
Posted: Mon 11 Sep 2006 17:27 Post subject:
Quote:
Not enough to maintain a black population. From what it looks like, blacks in the UK are not an endogamous group like the other immigrant populations are. I read yesterday that 40% of the "black" children born in the UK have a white parent... 40 PERCENT Surprised. If they keep going at that rate there will be very few black people left in 3 generations.
...thats bordering on ethnic suicide. They will breed themselves out before too long.
Which is an entirely good thing. The whole point of emigrating to Britain or any other country is to join that country and assimilate into its people and culture. If you're serious about holding on to your distinct ethnic identity as a Yoruba or a light brown middle class Trini, you remain among the Yorubas in Nigeria, or stay in Trinidad.
There isn't one "black" ethnic identity in Britain. There are several different ethnic-cultural idenitites which are not based primarily on race. Among Nigerians, for example, the biggest ethnic groups are Yoruba, Igbo, and Hausa. Among Jamaicans, you have the divisions based on socioeconomic class and skin color common to the Carribean. This is how people identify primarily - not as generic black people. In fact, the generic black identity is something that tends to be imposed on people from outside, by the white majority.
People should marry who they want to of course, but my opinion is that immigrants assimilating into the larger society is a good thing.
edit
I don't think assimilation should just be a one way street. The Jamaicans should bring positive things into British culture - jerk chicken and curry goat could be as common as fish and chips - all for the good. And the Brits of all backgrounds could learn to love moi moi and jolof rice. But then how many Britons of Nigerian ancestry appreciate curry goat? How many Jamaican Britons fix moi moi for their special occasions?
Joined: 28 Apr 2006 {Posts: 282 } Location: 51st State
Posted: Mon 11 Sep 2006 20:04 Post subject:
odocoileus wrote:
There isn't one "black" ethnic identity in Britain. There are several different ethnic-cultural idenitites which are not based primarily on race. Among Nigerians, for example, the biggest ethnic groups are Yoruba, Igbo, and Hausa. Among Jamaicans, you have the divisions based on socioeconomic class and skin color common to the Carribean. This is how people identify primarily - not as generic black people. In fact, the generic black identity is something that tends to be imposed on people from outside, by the white majority.
Exactly, institutionalised racism doesn't care if your Nigerian or Jamaican, Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa, or which island you from. So when other groups act from their power base, conscious members of the various black ethnicities start looking wider than tribes and intra-class differences.
Quote:
But then how many Britons of Nigerian ancestry appreciate curry goat? How many Jamaican Britons fix moi moi for their special occasions?
There are ignorant or ethnocentric people among Jamaican and Nigerian descended Brits who have bought into ideas which divide them from each other, like calling so-called Caribbeans slave babies, or taking on the idea that mainland Africans are primitive. However friendships, partnerships and marriages are common between those two ethnicities. They see each other as the biggest and baddest in their respective regions.
Last edited by Altertude on Mon 11 Sep 2006 20:07; edited 2 times in total
Among Jamaicans, you have the divisions based on socioeconomic class and skin color common to the Carribean. This is how people identify primarily - not as generic black people.
This is more of a feature of U.S.-based immigrants based on my own experience. Britain tended to attract immigrants from the lower rungs of the socioeconomic ladder. These were the people they needed to fill their labor shortages after WWII. In the U.S. there's more of a social class mix among Caribbean immigrants.
odocoileus wrote:
I don't think assimilation should just be a one way street. The Jamaicans should bring positive things into British culture - jerk chicken and curry goat could be as common as fish and chips - all for the good. And the Brits of all backgrounds could learn to love moi moi and jolof rice. But then how many Britons of Nigerian ancestry appreciate curry goat? How many Jamaican Britons fix moi moi for their special occasions?
British cuisine is bland and could use a little pizzazz, so this would be a good thing. From what I've heard, Indian food is almost as common as fish and chips over there.
Posted: Wed 13 Sep 2006 16:27 Post subject: "Black" Women in IRs
This following post by the same man who wrote the article on "Black" women back in 2002 regarding interracial marriage of Black/Biracial women and White men from The Atlanta Constitution. He was wrong to portray Black/Biracial women as "golddiggers". Here's the post below:
Quote:
WHITE GUYS & BLACK CHICKS: The taboo against black women dating white men is breaking down. The growing education gap between black men and women and the cold fact that many black men are incarcerated or murder victims are causal factors. (By using education as a surrogate for wealth, this article skirts the issue that white men are wealthier than black men. We can’t have black women looking like gold diggers, can we?) One question the article doesn’t fully confront is why white men are going after dark meat, though it acknowledges the “exotic look” factor I attributed to biracial women in a previous post. Black guys still have their fans, though. Mickey Kaus reports:
Then there is the final taboo issue—black male sexuality. Fear of black male sexuality was the psychological engine of Jim Crow, Nicholas Lemann has argued. And respect for it is the unwritten explanation for a lot of the resistance to cross-race dating (between 1960 and 1980, for example). I once asked a multi-degreed, accomplished black woman friend of mine (who dated whites) why so many other black women restricted their “options” to black men. She paused thoughtfully, stroked her chin, and said: “I guess it’s the sex.”
LINK July 15, 2002 10:59 pm EDT
Posted: Wed 13 Sep 2006 17:16 Post subject: Re: "Black" Women in IRs
srbbgirl wrote:
This following post by the same man who wrote the article on "Black" women back in 2002 regarding interracial marriage of Black/Biracial women and White men from The Atlanta Constitution. He was wrong to portray Black/Biracial women as "golddiggers". Here's the post below:
Quote:
WHITE GUYS & BLACK CHICKS: The taboo against black women dating white men is breaking down. The growing education gap between black men and women and the cold fact that many black men are incarcerated or murder victims are causal factors. (By using education as a surrogate for wealth, this article skirts the issue that white men are wealthier than black men. We can’t have black women looking like gold diggers, can we?) One question the article doesn’t fully confront is why white men are going after dark meat, though it acknowledges the “exotic look” factor I attributed to biracial women in a previous post. Black guys still have their fans, though. Mickey Kaus reports:
Then there is the final taboo issue—black male sexuality. Fear of black male sexuality was the psychological engine of Jim Crow, Nicholas Lemann has argued. And respect for it is the unwritten explanation for a lot of the resistance to cross-race dating (between 1960 and 1980, for example). I once asked a multi-degreed, accomplished black woman friend of mine (who dated whites) why so many other black women restricted their “options” to black men. She paused thoughtfully, stroked her chin, and said: “I guess it’s the sex.”
LINK July 15, 2002 10:59 pm EDT
Is he kidding people with the goldigger reference to Black women who date White men? I suppose there is absolutely no correlation with women all over the globe seeking powerful and financially succesful mates. Nah, must just be those Black goldiggers.
Also - The Black male sexuality boogeyman shouldn't be lauded when confirming one's sexual prowess by virtue of African ancestry yet decried when discussing racism and Jim Crow.
I've never been to Europe but I've heard that in France and Italy WM/BW couples out number BM/WW couples. This makes me think that French and Southern European men are more attracted to black women than Northern European men are. I heard North European countries like Britian and Germany both have more BM/WW couples just as the U.S. does.
My husband and I were in France (Paris) 3 years ago and were really surprised at the high number of WM/BW couples and families. They were as common as WM/AW couples are in California. Which is very common. We haven't been to Italy yet but intend to in the near future.
I don't think Southern European men are necessarily more attracted to black/partially black women than Northern European men are, but speaking from personal visible observations these men - at least the French anyway - are certainly more open with their preferences.
In Germany, at least the Viernheim & Heidelberg area I've noticed a definite increase in WM/BF relationships over the years. The majority certainly still are BM/WF for sure but the disparity doesn't appear to be as strong as it is in many to most parts of the United States. The black women appear to be directly from Africa and many of the mixed appearanced women (many of whom would be considered simply black/light-skinned black here in the states) appear to be Dominicans/other Carribeans and of course Afro-Germans.
My husband purchased his wedding suit in Germany and the sales woman was so nice and more than eager to show us this nice collage of professional wedding photos sent in from happy customers. I couldn't help noticing the preponderance of women of color with names like Maria, Claudia, Conchetta, etc...
In the Scandinavian countries - at least Sweden & Denmark - there are a number of "mixed" marriages/relationships. WM/BF & AF plus BM/WF. Again, this is only based on my personal observation of Stockholm and Copenhagen.
Posted: Mon 25 Sep 2006 00:44 Post subject: Re: "Black" Women in IRs
sagascend wrote:
srbbgirl wrote:
This following post by the same man who wrote the article on "Black" women back in 2002 regarding interracial marriage of Black/Biracial women and White men from The Atlanta Constitution. He was wrong to portray Black/Biracial women as "golddiggers". Here's the post below:
Quote:
WHITE GUYS & BLACK CHICKS: The taboo against black women dating white men is breaking down. The growing education gap between black men and women and the cold fact that many black men are incarcerated or murder victims are causal factors. (By using education as a surrogate for wealth, this article skirts the issue that white men are wealthier than black men. We can’t have black women looking like gold diggers, can we?) One question the article doesn’t fully confront is why white men are going after dark meat, though it acknowledges the “exotic look” factor I attributed to biracial women in a previous post. Black guys still have their fans, though. Mickey Kaus reports:
Then there is the final taboo issue—black male sexuality. Fear of black male sexuality was the psychological engine of Jim Crow, Nicholas Lemann has argued. And respect for it is the unwritten explanation for a lot of the resistance to cross-race dating (between 1960 and 1980, for example). I once asked a multi-degreed, accomplished black woman friend of mine (who dated whites) why so many other black women restricted their “options” to black men. She paused thoughtfully, stroked her chin, and said: “I guess it’s the sex.”
LINK July 15, 2002 10:59 pm EDT
Is he kidding people with the goldigger reference to Black women who date White men? I suppose there is absolutely no correlation with women all over the globe seeking powerful and financially succesful mates. Nah, must just be those Black goldiggers.
Also - The Black male sexuality boogeyman shouldn't be lauded when confirming one's sexual prowess by virtue of African ancestry yet decried when discussing racism and Jim Crow.
That's what I'm trying to say, Sagascend. That commentary by Libertyblog regarding Black men, racism, and Jim Crow was uncalled for. The whole premise of the Civil Rights Movement was to secure basic rights for Blacks and Mixed people, not sexual freedom. That's the same viewpoint racists have of the movement back then.
Another thing, Black and Mixed women are educated and employed in corporate America than ever before. Professional Black women make more than White women. His theory of Black women as "golddigers" is flushed down the toilet.
'
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in
.
wow....they're gonna completely disappear before too long.