Posted: Sun 13 Mar 2005 01:23 Post subject: Inland Empire Sees Rise in Hate CrimesBucking Trend in State
The story below states that the hate crime committed against the black student(s) was committed by a white-identified Latino...Could this mean that there will be an increasing number of West Coast Latinos (Mexican Americans) attracted to white supremacist groups in the future?
Here's an excerpt from the story:
"Last month, Armando Perez, 19, pleaded guilty to a felony hate crime assault for stabbing Turner. Perez could not be reached for comment.
Quinn Baranski, the assistant district attorney who handled the case, said that when a judge asked Perez if the attack was based on race, Perez replied, "It definitely was," in a proud, defiant tone. Earlier, Perez told sheriff's deputies that he is white, Baranski said.
Perez was sentenced to two years in prison, but between time served and possible time off for good behavior, he could be free in six months."
CALIFORNIA
Inland Empire Sees Rise in Hate Crimes, Bucking Trend in State
The tally stands out in regions where violations have declined. Authorities say the stimulus is an influx of racial minorities.
By Lance Pugmire and Janet Wilson, Times Staff Writers
When a teen lifted his baggy shorts and flashed a swastika and German army tattoos at Kenny Turner outside his high school last June, the popular black Lake Elsinore senior just kept walking.
"It was the second-to-last day of the school year," recalled Turner, now 19. "I didn't want to be in trouble with one day left."
But Turner and two witnesses said the young man, armed with an ice pick, ran after him and stabbed him while screaming a racial slur. It's an incident that, although rare, is emblematic of a growing problem in the Inland Empire, authorities say.
The number of reported hate crimes in Riverside and San Bernardino counties has risen sharply in recent years, fueled in part by dramatic demographic changes that experts say are bringing more minorities into a region that has long been home to pockets of white supremacists. Other growing Southland suburbs among them Santa Clarita, Lancaster and Simi Valley have also had high-profile racially motivated crimes and incidents in recent years.
Although hate crimes declined 10% statewide in 2003, they rose a combined 19.5% in Riverside and San Bernardino counties, according to the most recent data from the state attorney general's office.
As part of crackdowns by the FBI and sheriffs in the Inland Empire, 42 people associated with white hate groups have been arrested in the last 13 months on suspicion of weapons possession, drug dealing and other crimes.
Authorities announced in January that an alleged white supremacist in Riverside County's Menifee was recruiting players on a local high school football team. Educators and prosecutors promptly vowed to work jointly to combat hate crime on campuses.
In the last two years, incidents in that county have included teens parading with a homemade flag emblazoned with swastikas in front of Lake Elsinore High School, and the beating of two black students by four white students at Murrieta Valley High School.
Last year, a black Norco High School junior found song lyrics on her desk about gunning down blacks. In May, a melee among 200 students at Temescal Canyon High School in Lake Elsinore was triggered by racial slurs. In March, Corona police arrested a dozen Centennial High School students after a racially motivated fight broke out.
In fast-growing Riverside County, experts and law enforcement officials say, rising racial hostility has been triggered by increasing racial diversity among newcomers.
Although the county's white population rose 7% from 1990 to 2000, the number of blacks grew 61%, and Latinos and Asians increased 82% and 62% respectively, said James P. Allen, a Cal State Northridge professor who analyzes racial and ethnic data.
"Any kind of major demographic change has the potential to spark racial turbulence and hate crimes," said Mark Potok, who monitors hate crimes nationally for the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala. "Very often, hate crimes are someone acting out in response to some kind of real pressure, including sprawl and economic pressures."
Despite the disturbing incidents and high-profile arrests, some local officials urge perspective. "We handle 15,000 felony cases a year, and we're talking about less than 100 hate crimes we deal with for the entire county," said Riverside County Dist. Atty. Grover Trask. He said he had seen an uptick in all categories of crime because of the fast-growing population.
In San Bernardino County, tract homes are springing up even in once isolated desert areas that can be attractive to gun-toting white supremacists. A task force of FBI agents and specially trained sheriff's deputies teamed up in November 2003 to track white supremacists. So far, the investigation has yielded 24 arrests of members of the High Desert Freak Boys and Angry Nazi Soldiers. Using routine weapons and drug charges, authorities say, they have crippled the groups.
In other cases, authorities have used anti-gang laws to charge suspected white supremacists, seeking stiffer penalties and bans on congregating.
"Anywhere in the county where we see a problem, whether it's street gangs, outlaw biker gangs or these white supremacists, we are going to do whatever we can to combat the crime and violence that they bring with them into our communities," said Cindy Beavers, a spokeswoman for the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department.
Among the factors experts attribute to the rising hostility include absentee parents who commute long hours to coastal jobs, alienated kids finding "street" families in gangs, and the longtime local presence of Tom Metzger, the former Ku Klux Klan grand dragon.
"The unfortunate reality is that this [southwest] corner of Riverside County is California's own northern Idaho," said John Ruiz, an assistant county district attorney who successfully prosecuted young alleged Hammerskins white supremacists in 2002 for attacking a black man with beer bottles, boots and razors in Temecula wine country.
Metzger, 66, who now leads the White Aryan Resistance from his home in Fallbrook, said southwest Riverside County's "chemistry is perfect for more racism."
"There are a lot of white people in Temecula, people who have fled Orange County or Los Angeles County with the code phrase that they were 'fleeing from crime,' when in fact the majority were fleeing nonwhite crime," Metzger said. "The growing pains of throwing kids into forced integration causes a negative reaction in this burgeoning area that's becoming more nonwhite."
Three black Murrieta Valley High School students last year filed lawsuits against their district and several white students for $2.8 million, alleging that they were taunted and beaten.
The suits allege that on Aug. 20, 2003, a black student was violently fouled by a white student during a basketball game, prompting another white student to yell racial slurs. Later that day, the suits allege, two of the white students confronted one of the black students outside the principal's office and barked out more racial slurs. When the black student tried to walk away, he was knocked to the ground and severely beaten.
The school district's attorney did not return repeated phone calls to his office. Janine Hall, mother of two of the white boys named in the suit, said her sons "keep getting crap everywhere they go," insisting that "their story hasn't been told straight" but declining to elaborate.
Alan Young, director of student support for the Murrieta Valley School District, said he could not discuss the case, citing the lawsuits, for which hearings are set in early March. But Young said hate crime complaints were down sharply, from about 50 last year to a dozen so far this year.
"I think there are racial tensions in every high school in this country," Young said. "We actually see evidence that really is kind of declining here."
Sharron Lindsay, superintendent of the Lake Elsinore Unified School District, said she was "outraged" by the stabbing of Kenny Turner in front of his high school and by the swastika flag paraded in front of school. But she said 99% of students in the integrated, 140-square-mile district got along well. The district has swelled from 14,000 six years ago to 20,000 now. Many new arrivals are minorities.
"I'm proud of our students," she said. "This school district has rejoiced in its diversity."
Business leaders, educators and students met last summer to discuss how to work and live together, she said. In her district and others nearby, students have formed "unity groups" and hold forums on how to break down racial barriers. More than 7,000 residents held a parade for tolerance on Lake Elsinore's Main Street in November, she said.
She said the area clearly had "isolated pockets" of white supremacy because of its history as a rural area with Ku Klux Klan activity.
Last month, Armando Perez, 19, pleaded guilty to a felony hate crime assault for stabbing Turner. Perez could not be reached for comment.
Quinn Baranski, the assistant district attorney who handled the case, said that when a judge asked Perez if the attack was based on race, Perez replied, "It definitely was," in a proud, defiant tone. Earlier, Perez told sheriff's deputies that he is white, Baranski said.
Perez was sentenced to two years in prison, but between time served and possible time off for good behavior, he could be free in six months.
Turner, now a freshman at Mt. San Jacinto College, says he feels let down by the criminal justice system, and by his school.
"To think he could be out in six months, that seems to be part of the problem," Turner said. "These guys keep getting away with things. So much of what they do, nobody notices or realizes. They either don't want to see it, or don't pay attention to it . There were always racial problems at that school, and it's something they barely have control of."
After reading this article, I did a web search on Armando Perez to see if I could find a picture of him. I didn't find his picture but I found this article http://www.parapundit.com/archives/002648.html. At the bottom there are reader's comments about the article. One of the readers comments is quoted below:
Quote:
Whether Perez is a--take a deep breath--"skinhead" is not the point. The fact that he is a white "Hispanic" who assaulted a black, is. Incidents like this put the lie to the much-touted "alliance" between blacks & Latinos. Ain't gonna happen, folks.
I'm not suprised that Perez self-identifies as "white," as I know many so-called "Hispanics" from Mexico & South America who do the same. The problem is, the multi-cult encourages them to think of themselves as "non-white," partly I suspect in order to bolster the ranks of the non-white vanguard. As a white nationalist I would have no problem reaching out to these folks.
Posted by: Stuka on March 6, 2005 08:59 AM
I wonder if this white nationalist is granting Perez the benefit of the doubt that he's not mestizo or is it that he doesn't care if he is as long as Perez claims a white identity. Would Stuka still not have a problem reaching out to him if it turns out that there's some remote black ancestry in senor Perez? I don't know much about the white nationalist mind set but my perception of this group is that they exclude everyone but those perceived to be white by definition of the white purity myth. Are these folks now reaching out to the folks that were previously excluded in order to bolster the ranks of the "white" vanguard?
It's well known that in the california priosons, mexican gangs often ally with white supremacist gangs to combat black gangs. I think alot of it starts there and gets carried out into the streets. Many latino gangs routinely beat/murder innocent blacks. I think major demographic change and ethinic gang warfare is what sparks hate crimes and racial tension in and around LA. In some instances, skin heads will allow latinos who are atlest partially white(with no african blood) to join their gangs.
Here's a quote from the article that I find really interesting:
Quote:
The Marriages of Slaves
The majority of slaves brought to the shores of Mexico were male. With a lack of female Africans, most of these men eventually chose Indian or mestizo women as spouses. The long-established Siete Partidas laws of Spain granted slaves the right to select their spouses. Slave masters were thus forbidden from intervening in this decision.
Professor Martha Menchaca, the author of Recovering History, Reconstructing Race: The Indian, Black, and White Roots of Mexican Americans, observed that this legislation was of monumental importance because it became the gateway for the children of slaves to gain their freedom. Due to the lobbying efforts of the Catholic Church the children of Black male slaves and Indian women were declared free and given the right to live with their mother. With laws that granted freedom to the children of a slave who married into other racial classifications, it is very obvious to see the motivation of this class to seek outside partners.
It appears that the African population disappeared into the mestizo population at some point. I would imagine that many of these Latinos joining up with skinheads etc are partially black.
Last edited by mixedmom on Sun 13 Mar 2005 15:29; edited 1 time in total
Yeah i'm pretty sure that most of them have some black ancestry but most people aren't aware of it. From my experience with mexicans, I can assure you that the avearage mexican would rather slit his mothers throat before admitting to having african admixture
Posted: Sun 13 Mar 2005 16:07 Post subject: Inland Empire Sees Rise in Hate CrimesBucking Trend in State
BlackHaze wrote:
Yeah i'm pretty sure that most of them have some black ancestry but most people aren't aware of it. From my experience with mexicans, I can assure you that the avearage mexican would rather slit his mothers throat before admitting to having african admixture
I don't know about slitting his mother's throat, but Mexican and especially Mexican American identity revolves around being mestizo (Amerindian and European). Mexicans have African ancestry, but it is dwarfed by their Indian and Spanish ancestry, and it is true, most-at least here-are unaware of or possibly reluctant to admit to the fact that they have African ancestry.
This also impacts how they deal with other Latinos who are more African ancestrally or culturally. I used to participate on a message board for Afro-Latinos. Many of them from the west coast admitted to having difficulty in their dealings with Mexican Americans.
Posted: Sun 13 Mar 2005 17:10 Post subject: Re: Inland Empire Sees Rise in Hate CrimesBucking Trend in State
gwtapper2000 wrote:
...Mexican and especially Mexican American identity revolves around being mestizo (Amerindian and European). Mexicans have African ancestry, but it is dwarfed by their Indian and Spanish ancestry, and it is true, most-at least here-are unaware of or possibly reluctant to admit to the fact that they have African ancestry.
I think that there are two different issues here.
First, is the extent of African ancestry (or genetic admixture, to be precise). Spaniards have a about 5 percent African admixture and Portuguese have about 7-8 percent due to the assimilation of about 100,000 Africans into Iberia during the 16th century. Natrally, Iberian colonies have even higher levels of African genetic admixture, due to the subsequent assimilation of Africans taken to the New World. National averages range from 60 percent in the Dominican Republic, 50 percent in Brazil, Puerto Rico, and Cuba, 30 percent in Mexico and Peru, down to 20 percent in Chile and Argentina.
Personally, I do not know any college-educated resident of those countries who is ignorant or in denial of this easily measured fact. Latin America is more socially stratified by class that the U.S., however, and undeducated folks there are very uneducated indeed. It is likely that many working-class residents of those countries are as ignorant of their genetics as they are of their history or of anything else. But ignorance has a different cause in the United States.
Most Americans are also ignorant of the fact that one-third of White Americans have 2-to-20 percent recent African genetic admixture. But this ignorance is not due to the same cause as that of uneducated Mexicans. Americans have more schooling on average than most Latin Americans. It is because "racial" purity is an important element of U.S. society. Hence, the U.S. media (including the educational system) conceal or deny the fact (due to lack of interest, and public rejection, not to conspiracy) and so in the U.S., only scientists (geneticists, molecular anthropologists) are in the know.
The second issue is "Black" or "African-American" ethnic self-identity. How you ethnically self-identify is a completely separate issue from your degree of African genetic admixture (or ancestry). It is exceedingly hard for Americans to grasp that these are separate issues. (To see an example of this confusion, go back and read Blackhaze's posts on nationalism.) But, like it or not, they are different issues. Personally, I do not know any resident of Latin American countries (educated or not), no matter their personal African admixture who self-identifies as "Black" or "African-American." The endogamous color line is unique to the United States.
Do not misunderstand. When I refer to the endogamous U.S. color line, I am not suggesting that Black Americans should marry White ones. I am simply pointing out that they do not, and that this has created a unique ethnic self-identity in the United States. This ethnic self-identity is rejected by most residents of Latin American (whatever their admixture). In fact, for many reasons, educated residents of Latin American countries (even those with much African admixture) tend to look down with contempt on African-Americans and loudly reject such a label when African-Americans try to impose it on them involuntarily.
In short, only uneducated Mexicans (or other residents of Latin America) are likely to be ignorant of their admixture. But virtually all Mexicans (and other residents of Latin America) strongly reject and deny "Black" or "African-American" ethnic self-identity.
Posted: Sun 13 Mar 2005 20:21 Post subject: Hispanics and Mixed-Americans
I was at the birthday party of a child in my old neighborhood. The boy's family is from Chile. They look like brown Indians. There were a lot of Hispanic families there. My children were invited to the party and I was there with them. Most of the people invited were Spanish speaking people of Indian/Mestizo origin. I was the only English speaking adult there. All of the adults spoke only Spanish, all of the children old enough to go to school were bilingual. If any adult wanted to say something to me, they'd have to have one of the bilingual children interpret for them. My Spanish is not so good but it's better than their English (which isn't saying much, unfortunately). I was sitting on the couch when three black boys came through the door. These boys were black-looking by their Hispanic standards. An eight year old brown Mestizo girl (who was much darker than me) sitting next to me said "Oh no! the black people are here!" she tried to hide behind me and she told me that her mother would punish her if she let the black people see her. I told her that I doubted that those black boys had come there to bother her and that she'd be just fine. Couldn't this child see that I was black too? This is one of several encounters that I've had with Hispanic people who don't consider me black and have gone as far as to tell me what my racial designation is in their eyes. Not only will they strongly resist being categorized as black but they don't readily see tan people such as myself as black either, even when I tell them that that's what I am.
I'm actually a multigenerational mulatto who's been marginally associated with the African-American community. Outwardly I tell people I'm black but inwardly I prefer multiracial.
Posted: Sun 13 Mar 2005 21:55 Post subject: Re: Hispanics and Mixed-Americans
mixedmom wrote:
...This is one of several encounters that I've had with Hispanic people who don't consider me black and have gone as far as to tell me what my racial designation is in their eyes. Not only will they strongly resist being categorized as black but they don't readily see tan people such as myself as black either, even when I tell them that that's what I am.
It would be good to know how long the eight-year-old had been living (and going to school or preschool) in the United States.
Just as they found it hard to see you as Black, I suspect that if you visited Chile, you would be blind to differences that they consider important and obvious.
The perception of "racial" traits (which happens to be the title of one of my essays) is culturally dependent, and much harder to learn than one would think. It is a lot like learning a language. Kids do it effortlessly until about age 7, but then it gets harder and harder with every year that passes after that. To a native speaker (or "race"-perceiver) it seems natural and effortless. But to someone immersed into a new culture as an adult (or even as a teenager), identifying someone's social coalition can be very confusing.
You might want to read my essay on it. Better yet, one of the most interesting books on how foreign kids learn U.S. racialsm is Debra Van Ausdale and Joe R. Feagin, _The First R: How Children Learn Race and Racism_ (Lanham MD: Rowman & Littlefield, 2001). For instance, they learn the physical traits and the words before they learn to connect each word with the appropriate features. On one occasion a preschooler became angry with a playmate and called her a "nigger." The target of her anger was the daughter of a Japanese consul. She knew that the other was "racially" different but had forgotten which slur went with which group.
Posted: Mon 14 Mar 2005 03:11 Post subject: Re: Hispanics and Mixed-Americans
fwsweet wrote:
It would be good to know how long the eight-year-old had been living (and going to school or preschool) in the United States.
This girl was born in the United States but her family is an immigrant family. The girl's mother only speaks Spanish but she's lived in the United States for more than 20 years. The girl's father can speak English with a heavy accent. She also has three older sisters, one is grown and married, the other two were 12 and 14. All of the children in this family are bilingual. I'm not sure where everyone was born but I know that the eight year old was born here in the United States. She's two months older than my daughter and they played together until we moved. I noticed that a lot of the men could speak English but not the wives. They seemed to appreciate my efforts to communicate with them in Spanish. The area where I lived at the time had many Hispanic families and they were able to create their own Spanish speaking neighborhood which put less pressure on the stay at home mothers to learn English. There were Latino mercados and Latino bakeries and "Mom & Pop" restaurants (from various countries) . The elementary school where my children attended was over 50% Hispanic. The PTA meetings were both in English and Spanish. Some of the meetings such as Back to School Night and Kindergarten Orientation had separate Spanish nights where only Spanish was spoken.
I had English speaking neighbors expressing resentment towards the Hispanics for their seeming reluctance to learn English and assimulation into Anglo American culture. I've heard English speakers complain that the Hispanics are coming here not to assimulate and become Americans but to colonize and turn American into a Spanish speaking country. I'm usually silent when things like this are said. I usually change the subject.
It appears that Armando Perez went the wrong way with his assimulation into Anglo culture unless he was already a white supremacist within his Latino culture and simply linked up with the Anglo counterpart. Are there white power movements within Latino countries?
Posted: Mon 14 Mar 2005 13:56 Post subject: Re: Hispanics and Mixed-Americans
mixedmom wrote:
Are there white power movements within Latino countries?
Not to my knowlege. Some time ago, someone posted a similar quetsion on the professional historian's listserv. If you read the thread at www.h-net.org/~south/archives/threads/supremacy.html (scroll down), you can see that they had no idea either. (The thread mentioned only one book on comparative notions of "race" -- Degler -- and then immediately jumped the track onto the tangent of colonial slavery.)
In my personal experience (living and working for many years in Spain, Brazil, Argentina, and Puerto Rico), I have never seen any evidence of White power movements as such. There are secret societies, of course, but most are associated either with religious fervor (opus dei, for instance) or political movements trying to impose socialism, fascism, or democracy (sendero luminoso, tupamaros). My guess is that, since literally everyone has one or two dark parents, grandparents, children, or grandchildren, White supremacy in its virulent "racial purity" U.S. sense cannot gain any psychological traction.
Regarding language and culture, yes, most people find it very difficult to learn a new language after age 10. Those few of us who find it fun think that others are just not trying. I recall when my clients in Brazil were desperate for skilled workers. They authorized me to offer jobs to Americans with needed manufacturing skills to come and train their local workers. The pay was: (1) a salary identical to what they were earning in the 'States, plus (2) a free house and car as long as they lived in Brazil, plus (3) $20,000 per year spending allowance, plus (4) $150,000 bonus deposited to their U.S. bank account at the end of two years.
We brought dozens of families to Brazil under this industrial development program. Less than one family in four lasted more than six months. The great majority quit before even getting settled. The adults simply could not handle the language change (and associated cultural differences). For example, I recall when the wife of a manufacturing engineer went to the local motor vehicle office to get a drivers license. You know how unpleasant it can be to deal with an arrogant bureacrat behind a counter. Just imagine how much worse it is when you are ridiculed and made fun of (and subjected to hostility even by bystanders) because you cannot speak their language fluently. The engineer and his family were on the plane home the next day. Sad.
Posted: Mon 14 Mar 2005 15:36 Post subject: White Hispanic
Even without a white identity, Hispanics see African-Americans as different from them. I wonder if there would be any psychological conflicts for Armando Perez with his white identity and involvement in a hostile white power movement (I know that these two things are completely independant of each other) to attack a brown skinned Spanish speaking Mestizo (in the name of White Power) since "white" people see themselves as racially different from this group. This certainly would have made the story more ironic.
Last edited by mixedmom on Mon 14 Mar 2005 17:43; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Mon 14 Mar 2005 16:00 Post subject: Inland Empire Sees Rise in Hate CrimesBucking Trend in State
Quote:
It appears that Armando Perez went the wrong way with his assimulation into Anglo culture unless he was already a white supremacist within his Latino culture and simply linked up with the Anglo counterpart. Are there white power movements within Latino countries?
When I was in Brazil in '93, there was a case in Sao Paolo of a black student or worker who was beaten to death by a group of Neo Nazi skin heads. In many southern Brazilian cities there's been an emergence of these kinds of groups. They are supposedly a response to the migration of northeasterners to southern cities. Northeasterners are seen as hicks and are mostly mixed-race as opposed to just black or white, but their regional culture and ways of speech set them apart from southern Brazilians. Most of these Nazi groups are made up of violent, young white Brazilians who think they are being invaded by blacks and northeasterners (some of whom belong to both groups). So I guess its not strictly racial.
Theres even a branch of the Nation of Islam in Sao Paolo, as well as Colombia. Perhaps Brazil is getting more like the U.S. and the U.S. is getting more like Brazil.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 46 } Location: Soon to be in Europe
Posted: Mon 14 Mar 2005 16:23 Post subject:
With regard to this train of discussion, I would weigh in and support the perceptions of Frank.
It is nearly impossible to penetrate the gringo mind regarding one's identity when African ancestry is involved. I remember the South Eastern Council on Latin American Studies annual meeting in Miami, FL in 1996. I was there to read a paper on African ancestry in New Spain (colonial Mexico) which was later published. At the end of my reading, members of the audience (all Ph.Ds) started asking me questions about "black" Mexicans. It was enough to make one throw up one's hands (which I wound up doing). And as much as "whites" are drawn to this kind of reasoning, it is reasonable to suspect that "blacks" would have even more internal pressure to attach African ancestry (any amount) to a "black" self-identity. This would be the case because of at least two factors.
(a) The "racial" nature of "black" identity (e.g. "blacks" are usually refered to in "racial" terms)
(b) The fact that "blacks" perceive themselves to be commonly rejected by everyone else.
The best way I know to picture (b) is to depict a physics experiment. Picture a weight-lifting set. They come with various weights. Take a ten-pound weight slab of diameter 1 foot and one inch wide. Place it on a cylinder approximately two inches in diameter and one inch high. The ten pound weight represents the oppression (perceived and real) experienced by "blacks" from a vast number of whites (depicted by the larger cylinder of the weight slab of 1 foot in diameter, one inch deep). The "blacks" counter this and their reaction to their U.S. version of "blackness" is represented by their holding up (two inches in diameter and one inch deep) over the ten-pound weight. Because their number and resources are lower and their rejection is seen as near absolute, each "black" has to exert proportionately more emotional energy maintaining whatever "blackness" is.
On the other hand, white "racial" energies (spread out over a larger space and represented by the ten pound weight) can be and are more dispersed per each individual "white" (with exceptions like rednecks, militiamen and the like).
This is a physics version of what George has been talking about for years.
I happen to believe three things associated with the above:
(1) The "whites" (due to their initial and subsequent handling of African ancestry in the U.S.) are ultimately responsible for the genesis of U.S. "blackness". Unfortunately, some of the effects of this initial evil are a creating great deal of misery (some their doing and some not) for those who still identify as "black".
(2) Ironically, "blacks" are handling this enormous burden, in my opinion, execptionally well (judging by their relative acceptance of interracial relationship as a whole--I am not talking about "black studies" academics; I am talking about rank-and-file people). Judging by a number of the good qualities "blacks" possess (which I can list, if asked)).
(3) A ten to fifteen percent out-marriage of "blacks" will do wonders to improve the situation I am describing above--and it will improve no matter what any "black studies" professor, "white" supremacist, or Dominican salsa musician says or does.
When I was in Brazil in '93, there was a case in Sao Paolo of a black student or worker who was beaten to death by a group of Neo Nazi skin heads. In many southern Brazilian cities there's been an emergence of these kinds of groups. ... Theres even a branch of the Nation of Islam in Sao Paolo, as well as Colombia. Perhaps Brazil is getting more like the U.S. and the U.S. is getting more like Brazil.
Wow! That comes as a real shock to me. We left Brazil in 1976 (nearly 30 years ago), and so I can just imagine how much it must have changed. This is the sort of thing that makes Javier and me toss and turn at night: the export of U.S. racialism to other countries.
Posted: Mon 14 Mar 2005 18:30 Post subject: Inland Empire Sees Rise in Hate CrimesBucking Trend in State
Quote:
Wow! That comes as a real shock to me. We left Brazil in 1976 (nearly 30 years ago), and so I can just imagine how much it must have changed. This is the sort of thing that makes Javier and me toss and turn at night: the export of U.S. racialism to other countries.
For my Portuguese classes, I have some xeroxed articles from Hoje, a Brazilian magazine similar to Time. There was one about the sub-cultures of Sao Paolo, which included some troubling pictures of young members of Movimiento White Pau (White Power Movement). The people-most of whom couldn't have been more than 20-were masked and giving the nazi salute.
According to the article they enjoyed attacking blacks and northeasterners. One or two did seem to have nappy hair. Though with the masks on, their faces were not visible. I think I still have the article some where. I'll see if I can post it here in PDF file format.
The group I was with was mostly in the northeastern part of the country at that time and the organization we were working with (I was doing a kind of Peace Corps thing), which organized agricultural cooperatives in Brazil, would often encourage the people in the community where we were not to migrate to the south because they were, among other things, destined to be harassed by nazis.
I'm still not sure how strong a presence these people are in the south. Their violence may be a function of their marginality.
Posted: Mon 14 Mar 2005 20:19 Post subject: Re: Inland Empire Sees Rise in Hate CrimesBucking Trend in State
gwtapper2000 wrote:
The group I was with was mostly in the northeastern part of the country at that time and the organization we were working with (I was doing a kind of Peace Corps thing), which organized agricultural cooperatives in Brazil, would often encourage the people in the community where we were not to migrate to the south because they were, among other things, destined to be harassed by nazis.
No kidding? Who funded it? How long were you there? In 1974, I was involved in a WHO-funded project managed by COMAG (companhia mineira de aguas e esgotos) to build small water purification plants throughout rural Minas Gerais. It was very informative, although depressing. Unbelievable poverty, although I imagine that the interiors of Bahia, Ceara and Maranhao were even worse.
The Veracruz area of Mexico has many "black" mexicanos - where it is obvious by looking at them. The African influence is apparent everywhere in Veracruz. The town San Luis Potosi, a "famous" silver mining town in Mexico, the silver mines there were discoverefd by a black man - a black Mexican - I forget his name.
I have known quite a few Mexicans who freely admitted that a grandmother or someone was black.
Once they come here and especially if they grew up here in the U.S. tho it is a different story. They are usually much more anxious to tell you about "all the Spaniards in their line" (which is itself funny because the Spaniards have mixed with the Moors for centuries)
Posted: Mon 14 Mar 2005 22:35 Post subject: Re: Inland Empire Sees Rise in Hate CrimesBucking Trend in State
[quote="gwtapper2000"]
BlackHaze wrote:
I used to participate on a message board for Afro-Latinos. Many of them from the west coast admitted to having difficulty in their dealings with Mexican Americans.
Many actually look down on Mexicans BECAUSE they see them as "Indians," which in many Latin American countries is like saying the person lacks civility, is primitive, and has no social graces or polish.
Posted: Mon 14 Mar 2005 22:43 Post subject: Re: Hispanics and Mixed-Americans
fwsweet wrote:
mixedmom wrote:
Are there white power movements within Latino countries?
Not to my knowlege.
Years ago I knew a Cuban guy - a complete mental case - literally- He was very white-skinned - He was part of some white supremacist - anti-semitic organization with links in Cuba - an underground movement with a newspaper and all. Some of their premises were that Jesus was not Jewish, that the Holocaust never happened, and that no human remains were ever found in Africa - man evolved somewhere else - I forget where.
His ex girlfriend told me one day she was talking to him on the phone and there was some static and he started saying 'Those Jews are doing it" etc. This guy was needless to say not dealing with a full deck.
He worked at a gym that I use to go to and someone who knew his ex girlfriend told me this and showed me some of his racist newsletters from Cuba.
Anyway, as for this racist organization, apparently they had links all over the world - including many latin American countries.
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