Posted: Tue 30 Jan 2007 14:34 Post subject: There's more to race than meets the eye
Quote:
Dawn Turner Trice
Chicago Tribune
There's more to race than meets the eye
Published January 29, 2007
One of my best friends is a white man named Ken. He's married to an African-American woman named Denise. They've been married for 16 years and have two beautiful children, a son, 14, and a daughter, 9.
These children, despite having parents who are of different races, look absolutely white. I tease Ken about this because it's been my experience that the offspring from interracial unions are endowed with a hint of color.
Even if the skin is rather fair, the hair may have an extra kink; the nose an extra curve; the lips more than a little pout. It's a beautiful thing. But looking at Ken and Denise's children, the mother (her medium brown latte-ish complexion and African-ish facial features) is barely visible.
The children, for now, identify themselves as biracial. But society will look at them and check the "white" box.
In recent months I've received lots of e-mail from readers who complain about Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) calling himself African-American when he is the offspring of a white mom from Kansas and a black dad from Kenya.
One testy reader wrote to me: I read Barack Obama's autobiography and this is what I got from it. His mother was white, carried him for 9 months, supported him financially and emotionally ... and is basically responsible for everything he turned into. His father left right after Barack was born, went back to Africa and was absent emotionally and financially from Barack's life. Now Barack Obama is being called African-American? Well, isn't that special? It's such a slap in the face to his mother.--M.D., Chicago.
If I may, here's why I believe Obama identifies as an African-American: It comes down to the way he looks, and he looks like a black man. I can't imagine he's ever denied being biracial.
It's just, unfortunately, we as Americans tend not to be a society so given to nuance that upon meeting someone we wait to find out a person's racial lineage.
What we tend to do is assign race based on what we see. Even though DNA tests can reveal racial complexities far beyond what the eye can discern, we still think we know a boatload about a person (enough to make us feel safe or unsafe, comfortable or uncomfortable) based on how much melanin is in his or her skin.
That's why if Obama were standing on a corner in Chicago, or any other town or hamlet, trying to hail a cab, he'd be seen as a black man, not as a Harvard Law School grad, husband, father, senator or son of a white mother.
I understand why Obama's decision to call himself a black man is upsetting to some people, mostly non-black people. He's a credit to the white race, and some white people simply want to claim him.
It reminds me of how wounded some blacks felt when Tiger Woods described his racial background as "Cablinasian," for his Caucasian, black, American-Indian and Asian ancestry. Folks were even ticked off because within his word, the black part took a back seat to the Caucasian part.
But if the golfer were walking down a street at dusk in a white neighborhood and the police were called, he, too, would be described as a black man--albeit one with funny spiked shoes.
Racial identity can be such a silly albatross. Oddly, no matter how Obama defines himself, some blacks still won't see him as being a candidate who's black enough. The litmus test for being black enough simply eludes me. (What white candidate has been black enough?) Some non-black people might say he's exceptional because he's not all-black. OK, they won't say it, but they sure as heck will think it.
My friends Ken and Denise say they knew that when they fell in love and married, their children would have some uniquely tough decisions to make regarding race. Of course, they couldn't have predicted that his little white genes would overwhelm her little black ones and the children would look far more like him than her.
Still, when it comes time for their children to check one of those race boxes, they want their kids to define themselves--even though a lot of people (of many different races) will want desperately to do it for them.
The comment about Tiger was so insulting and mean. Said, obviously, to intimidate, deman and humble the poor sport into forever identification as marginalized and oppresed. And the same one is now being made about Obama. What comment? Well, it is the one that says, if Tiger were just hailing a cab--he would be perceived as just another black man.
Two points about this. First, is the universality about such a comment.
If Paula Abdul, were flying to London. Would she be perceived by airport employees as just being another Arab? She looks like one. Yet, the Arab community, does not humiliate their members, peripheal or full, like some Afrocentrist do to people of with one African American parent.
Moreover, if you never saw a pic of Madonna's daughter would you just assume that if you saw her, that she was just another hispanic beauty. How about Jeb Bush's son. Would you just assume that he was another Latino? Queen Elizabeth? Without the tiara, royal jewels and her royal entourage, is she not just another English lady. But, so what. We are all subject to be underestimated in our importance and social standing at some point in time. But, so what?
Second Point. The reality is that the way that we dress, demeanor and attitude play a huge role in how we are perceived. My hubby who looks like a young John Kennedy, always dresses down, when he is comparison shopping for cars, electronic, etc., to keep the sales wolves at bay or stated in another way, to subject himself to discrimination based on low economic perceptions. Moreover, when Tiger speaks, you hear an intelligent, thoughtful, modest man. His whole demeanor exudes the training from his parents. I wouldn't fear Tiger or Obama, were I a cabbie. I do fear those of any color, who cruises down the road with toons vibrating from their cars, unconcerned for their noise pollution and a look on their face of steely iron.
What's distressing is that the Afro centrist suits, would rather sing to the world, woes of doom, gloom and mistreatment, than to look at the factors drivers, behaviors that lead to racial profiling. And of course, how to curb such behaviors. Even, the concession, that there are those in the community, (negative stereotype reinforcers, thugs, violence prone types) whose collective behaviors reflect a poor image of those with similiarly perceived heriages.
I had hoped that the unfortunate change in the way that those who are perceived as Muslims and Arabs, are/were treated in this country after 9-11, would cause people in leadership positions in minority communities to notice that there is a cause and effect mechanism associated to Racial Profiling. Generally, a statistical model is built based on data affecting certain kinds of crime and correlated based on several factors, ethnicity, religion and race, being amongst them. The FBI, statistics are there for all to see.
Racial Profiling is unfortunate. But, its equally unfortunate, that there is such inertia in the black community about fixing the perceptions and most important the crime realities that lead to such profiling.
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A.
Posted: Wed 07 Feb 2007 21:38 Post subject:
Christina
Quote:
The comment about Tiger was so insulting and mean. Said, obviously, to intimidate, deman and humble the poor sport into forever identification as marginalized and oppresed. And the same one is now being made about Obama. What comment? Well, it is the one that says, if Tiger were just hailing a cab--he would be perceived as just another black man.
How is this slander against Tiger Woods? This is a real problem for "Blacks", as well as other people of color across America (Tiger is a man of color). Moreso for "Blacks" or people who are perceived as being "Black". If Tiger Woods were on the street he could definitely be perceived as an average "Black" man from a moving car (a cabbie). He has Asian facial features but you wouldn't know this until you were close enough to him to make that distinction. Even still, before he could tell you his racial composition or how he identifies, you would naturally make your own assumption unless the conversation came up, right?
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If Paula Abdul, were flying to London. Would she be perceived by airport employees as just being another Arab? She looks like one. Yet, the Arab community, does not humiliate their members, peripheal or full, like some Afrocentrist do to people of with one African American parent.
That's a broad statement to make. I take it you know how all Afrocentrists think. And for your information, "Black" Afrocentrists and "Black" Eurocentrists ("Blacks" who LOVE everything dipped in European culture) are always at odds. They both vilify each other and both sets of like minded individuals thinks the other one is full of sh*t.
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Second Point. The reality is that the way that we dress, demeanor and attitude play a huge role in how we are perceived.
No! It doesn't really matter how one is dressed when it comes to racist thinking and/or people who routinely discriminate on basis of skin color. If that were true, then why in hell were all of the Civil Rights leaders and participants (many of whom were better educated and better dressed than the racists who were antagonizing them) routinely discriminated against and even murdered. Most of them wore suits and ties and hard bottom shoes everyday, but yet, they couldn't live and work as they pleased without constant harassment and getting hit in their heads with rocks and other projectiles. The same scenarios play out today in a lot of places but just not so overtly done as in the past...but it's coming back and people are being more open with their racism again. Just ask Danny Glover or Christina Milian (who isn't "Black" but is routinely seen as such to untrained eyes) or recent non-"White" immigrants in historically predominate "White" countries.
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My hubby who looks like a young John Kennedy, always dresses down, when he is comparison shopping for cars, electronic, etc., to keep the sales wolves at bay or stated in another way, to subject himself to discrimination based on low economic perceptions.
"...looks like a young John Kennedy..." That would mean he is "White" and if you live in the "real" world, everybody [secretly] knows there are advantages to being "White" or a "White-identified" person or even being seen as a "White" person versus being seen as and/or being a person of color, especially a "Black" person, anywhere in the colonized world. Your husband isn't a good example of discrimination and/or racial indifference in this context.
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Moreover, when Tiger speaks, you hear an intelligent, thoughtful, modest man. His whole demeanor exudes the training from his parents. I wouldn't fear Tiger or Obama, were I a cabbie.
Well, that's mighty kind of you now isn't it? I guess there's no way he could ever be a "real" "Black" man because of this fact: "...he's an intelligent, thoughtful, modest man"? (obviously sarcasm on my part) I guess countless "Black" men and men of color are routinely discriminated against because the cabbis must have heard them speaking like stereotypical "Blacks" and feared for their lives, all while driving down the street? How someone speaks or articulates their words has NO bearing on their level of intelligence (maybe their education level, but not always) nor does it acurately reflect their character. If that were the case, politicians would be the world's greatest people! They dress well and usually are very well spoken and usually very educated, but they prove they aren't the brightest people everyday by their decisions made on the Hill. BTW, your statement can be seen, as you put it earlier, as "...so insulting and mean". You just stereotyped them by the way they look to you, albeit, it wasn't a mean stereotype, it still was/is a stereotype, IMO.
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I do fear those of any color, who cruises down the road with toons vibrating from their cars, unconcerned for their noise pollution and a look on their face of steely iron.
This statement sends big red flags IMO. This is that covert racism that I mentioned earlier in this post. Nobody is stupid, especially on this site. This is a cowardly way of saying you are afraid of young, "Black" and Hispanic (they are just as guilty of this stereotype) people on any given street in any given town/city/state in America. Very...what was that quote again? Oh yeah, very "...insulting and mean" as you put it earlier, it's also the "...universality about such a comment" that makes it even more racist and stereotypical.
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I had hoped that the unfortunate change in the way that those who are perceived as Muslims and Arabs, are/were treated in this country after 9-11, would cause people in leadership positions in minority communities to notice that there is a cause and effect mechanism associated to Racial Profiling.
This isn't something that is new to U.S. minorities, especially "Blacks" and "Black-identified" people. We've been discriminated against since we've been in the Western Hemisphere. And what cause/effect mechanism justifies a person or people of an entire ethnicity group to be routinely discriminated against? What justifies that? Slavery? Share-cropping? No, wait...Jim Crow, maybe? Institutionalized racism against people of color? Having to work 3 times as hard as your "White" counterparts but only reaping half of the benefits they get w/less hastles? Poverty? Car-jacking? Loud music with a thumping 808 bassline to it? Speaking in a broken American English dialect and/or slang? Low sagging jeans exposing the undergarments? Dreadlocked hair? Cornrow braids, maybe? Baggy clothes? Oh no, well maybe this is a "just" cause: "I do fear those of any color, who cruises down the road with toons vibrating from their cars, unconcerned for their noise pollution and a look on their face of steely iron."??? Okay, I get you then. It's okay to be stereotyped against just as long as you are "Black" or "Black-identified". Cool. If this isn't what you meant, this is what comes across in your statements IMO.
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Generally, a statistical model is built based on data affecting certain kinds of crime and correlated based on several factors, ethnicity, religion and race, being amongst them. The FBI, statistics are there for all to see.
WTF?! So it's the fault of the victim's of discrimination and racism for being racially profiled? This is the reasoning you and the FBI use? Wow!
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Racial Profiling is unfortunate. But, its equally unfortunate, that there is such inertia in the black community about fixing the perceptions and most important the crime realities that lead to such profiling.
So it's "Black" people's fault that Racial Profiling is a "needed" reality? It's the Arab speaking world's fault they are being Profiled as terrorists? Following that kind of logic then I suppose you think that Americans should be Profiled in other countries that our government have "democracized" or tried to, but in the process of cause/effect, destroyed their way of life, too, huh? No? Well, it's the same kind of logic you used in the above quote, IMO. Food for thought...
I disagree. Christina is correct. Looks, dress, speech, demeanor all have their place in determing who is 'safe' vs. who is potentially 'a threat". And if Tiger Woods was in NY, he could probably get a cab based upon his celebrity status. Danny Glover is the only Black male celebrity who I've heard that has had a problem getting a cab in NY (could be others??).
I bet an elder Black man in suit and tie has no problem. I for one wouldn't want to risk getting shanked by a bunch of young kids in hip-hop gear either. And aren't most cabbies in NY foreigners anyway? Why compalin about White Racism (implied) when it is actually color vs. color racism.
I have noticed a difference in demeanor from others when I am dresssed well vs. casual. I have also noticed a difference when my weight is +- 20#.
Too many otherwise civil and upstanding middle-class Blacks (<40) want to 'keep it real' and act 'ghetto' to their own detriment. Acting civil and being articluate is a badge of honor that all minorities want to achieve, except it seems for low to moderate income Blacks (even rich celebrities like P. Diddy) who would probably make up a majority of the of AAs if only counting incomes. So, that's probably at least 25% of the Black race off the bat. Statistics do state that approx. 1/4 Black men are involved in Criminal Justice System. That's not all racism, that's just criminal behavior. Yes, they get harder sentances and some are even framed, now that's racism, but all too many TODAY bring it on themselves. I have known several Black men/relatives with a record, and for the vast majority, it was because they BROKE THE LAW!
Alot of what is considered racism is perception. Yes, racism does exist, but you do not have to further it along by being anti-social. Too many Blacks (<40) want to act loud, uncooth, anti-social, yet wanna pull the race card when rejected for BEHAVIOR.
Last edited by Melani23 on Wed 07 Feb 2007 22:11; edited 3 times in total
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A.
Posted: Wed 07 Feb 2007 21:56 Post subject:
Quote:
Christina wrote:
the Arab community, does not humiliate their members, peripheal or full, like some Afrocentrist do to people of with one African American parent.
Sankofa wrote:
I take it you know how all Afrocentrists think.
Straw man. Sankofa changed "some" to "all." First warning.
I apologize, Frank. It wasn't intentional. I'll be more careful in the future, thanks. I meant to write: "I take it you know how some Afrocentrists think..."
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A.
Posted: Wed 07 Feb 2007 22:14 Post subject:
Quote:
I disagree. Christina is correct.
That's your opinion and that's cool.
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I have noticed a difference in demeanor when I am dresssed well vs. casual.
To some degree but then how do explain the different accounts of well dressed "Blacks" and other people of color who encounter racism in the office, store, by cabbies, all while elegantly dressed?
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have also noticed a difference when my weight is +- 20#.
Yeah, nobody likes a fat-azz. That has nothing to do with color...unless you are a fat, "Black" person, I guess?
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Too many civil, upstanding middle-class Blacks want to 'keep it real' and act 'ghetto' to their own detriment.
If you say so. You seem to always defend discrimination as long as it is against certain "Blacks" you deem are worthy of it...which, according to you, are "too many". Discrimination is discrimination and there is no need for it in a civil society.
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Alot of what is racism is perception. Yes, racism does exist, but you do not have to further it along by being anti-social. Too many Blacks (<40) want to act loud and uncooth, yet wanna pull the race card when rejected.
I love this one even more than your last statement. Being loud and uncooth isn't a monopoly held by "Blacks" (<40) alone, so stop. That is something that most youg people like to do...is to be "loud and uncooth" as you say. Yet "Blacks" (old and young) are routinely given these attributes by racist thinking people who believe that kind of nonsense to substaintiate their own racist, not to mention, stereotypical, indifferent thinking to make themselves feel superior. I think it's funny when I hear this kind of logic justifying someone's "hate". Good job!!
I think you know what I mean. I bet you are under 40. Young people, esp. males are just more threatening I think so they will often bear the brunt of racism (FEAR) more. My comments are moreso geared toward the under 40 age group...... I see them daily emphasizing negative 'Black' stereotypes and I have been a high school teacher as well....
I'm not excusing racism, merely pointing out how/why some people ALWAYS seem to bear the brunt of it more. I've lived in the South all my life and yet DO NOT encounter racism daily, weekly or even monthly. It's out there I know, but I do not focus on it and do not GO LOOKING for it either.
I'm not singling out 'undesirables' as unworthy either...just something I have noticed. That OVERT racism is more rare the higher up the income/educational spectrum one goes.
But, I understand where you are coming from, and alot of 'racism' needs to be broken down by gender, class, color, income, education, ethnicity, etc. Not all Blacks encounter the same type of racism. It varies alot. My opinion is that it just depends on what type of person you are....... And alot of it is just cultural (TV) or ignorance.
Now 'Down South' we say that all Northerners (including Blacks) are just uptight.
The comment about Tiger was so insulting and mean. Said, obviously, to intimidate, deman and humble the poor sport into forever identification as marginalized and oppresed. And the same one is now being made about Obama. What comment? Well, it is the one that says, if Tiger were just hailing a cab--he would be perceived as just another black man.
How is this slander against Tiger Woods? This is a real problem for "Blacks", as well as other people of color across America (Tiger is a man of color). Moreso for "Blacks" or people who are perceived as being "Black". If Tiger Woods were on the street he could definitely be perceived as an average "Black" man from a moving car (a cabbie). He has Asian facial features but you wouldn't know this until you were close enough to him to make that distinction. Even still, before he could tell you his racial composition or how he identifies, you would naturally make your own assumption unless the conversation came up, right?
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If Paula Abdul, were flying to London. Would she be perceived by airport employees as just being another Arab? She looks like one. Yet, the Arab community, does not humiliate their members, peripheal or full, like some Afrocentrist do to people of with one African American parent.
That's a broad statement to make. I take it you know how all Afrocentrists think. And for your information, "Black" Afrocentrists and "Black" Eurocentrists ("Blacks" who LOVE everything dipped in European culture) are always at odds. They both vilify each other and both sets of like minded individuals thinks the other one is full of sh*t.
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Second Point. The reality is that the way that we dress, demeanor and attitude play a huge role in how we are perceived.
No! It doesn't really matter how one is dressed when it comes to racist thinking and/or people who routinely discriminate on basis of skin color. If that were true, then why in hell were all of the Civil Rights leaders and participants (many of whom were better educated and better dressed than the racists who were antagonizing them) routinely discriminated against and even murdered. Most of them wore suits and ties and hard bottom shoes everyday, but yet, they couldn't live and work as they pleased without constant harassment and getting hit in their heads with rocks and other projectiles. The same scenarios play out today in a lot of places but just not so overtly done as in the past...but it's coming back and people are being more open with their racism again. Just ask Danny Glover or Christina Milian (who isn't "Black" but is routinely seen as such to untrained eyes) or recent non-"White" immigrants in historically predominate "White" countries.
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My hubby who looks like a young John Kennedy, always dresses down, when he is comparison shopping for cars, electronic, etc., to keep the sales wolves at bay or stated in another way, to subject himself to discrimination based on low economic perceptions.
"...looks like a young John Kennedy..." That would mean he is "White" and if you live in the "real" world, everybody [secretly] knows there are advantages to being "White" or a "White-identified" person or even being seen as a "White" person versus being seen as and/or being a person of color, especially a "Black" person, anywhere in the colonized world. Your husband isn't a good example of discrimination and/or racial indifference in this context.
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Moreover, when Tiger speaks, you hear an intelligent, thoughtful, modest man. His whole demeanor exudes the training from his parents. I wouldn't fear Tiger or Obama, were I a cabbie.
Well, that's mighty kind of you now isn't it? I guess there's no way he could ever be a "real" "Black" man because of this fact: "...he's an intelligent, thoughtful, modest man"? (obviously sarcasm on my part) I guess countless "Black" men and men of color are routinely discriminated against because the cabbis must have heard them speaking like stereotypical "Blacks" and feared for their lives, all while driving down the street? :roll: How someone speaks or articulates their words has NO bearing on their level of intelligence (maybe their education level, but not always) nor does it acurately reflect their character. If that were the case, politicians would be the world's greatest people! They dress well and usually are very well spoken and usually very educated, but they prove they aren't the brightest people everyday by their decisions made on the Hill. BTW, your statement can be seen, as you put it earlier, as "...so insulting and mean". You just stereotyped them by the way they look to you, albeit, it wasn't a mean stereotype, it still was/is a stereotype, IMO.
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I do fear those of any color, who cruises down the road with toons vibrating from their cars, unconcerned for their noise pollution and a look on their face of steely iron.
This statement sends big red flags IMO. This is that covert racism that I mentioned earlier in this post. Nobody is stupid, especially on this site. This is a cowardly way of saying you are afraid of young, "Black" and Hispanic (they are just as guilty of this stereotype) people on any given street in any given town/city/state in America. Very...what was that quote again? Oh yeah, very "...insulting and mean" as you put it earlier, it's also the "...universality about such a comment" that makes it even more racist and stereotypical.
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I had hoped that the unfortunate change in the way that those who are perceived as Muslims and Arabs, are/were treated in this country after 9-11, would cause people in leadership positions in minority communities to notice that there is a cause and effect mechanism associated to Racial Profiling.
This isn't something that is new to U.S. minorities, especially "Blacks" and "Black-identified" people. We've been discriminated against since we've been in the Western Hemisphere. And what cause/effect mechanism justifies a person or people of an entire ethnicity group to be routinely discriminated against? What justifies that? Slavery? Share-cropping? No, wait...Jim Crow, maybe? Institutionalized racism against people of color? Having to work 3 times as hard as your "White" counterparts but only reaping half of the benefits they get w/less hastles? Poverty? Car-jacking? Loud music with a thumping 808 bassline to it? Speaking in a broken American English dialect and/or slang? Low sagging jeans exposing the undergarments? Dreadlocked hair? Cornrow braids, maybe? Baggy clothes? Oh no, well maybe this is a "just" cause: "I do fear those of any color, who cruises down the road with toons vibrating from their cars, unconcerned for their noise pollution and a look on their face of steely iron."??? :| Okay, I get you then. It's okay to be stereotyped against just as long as you are "Black" or "Black-identified". Cool. :lol: If this isn't what you meant, this is what comes across in your statements IMO.
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Generally, a statistical model is built based on data affecting certain kinds of crime and correlated based on several factors, ethnicity, religion and race, being amongst them. The FBI, statistics are there for all to see.
WTF?! So it's the fault of the victim's of discrimination and racism for being racially profiled? This is the reasoning you and the FBI use? Wow!
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Racial Profiling is unfortunate. But, its equally unfortunate, that there is such inertia in the black community about fixing the perceptions and most important the crime realities that lead to such profiling.
So it's "Black" people's fault that Racial Profiling is a "needed" reality? It's the Arab speaking world's fault they are being Profiled as terrorists? Following that kind of logic then I suppose you think that Americans should be Profiled in other countries that our government have "democracized" or tried to, but in the process of cause/effect, destroyed their way of life, too, huh? No? Well, it's the same kind of logic you used in the above quote, IMO. Food for thought...
Marrying historical racism to current racism is a huge mistake in this instance. (racial profilling by cabbies) It obscures the particulars of the problem. If you want to resolve a problem, you have to look at cause and effect. Current dynamics and variables i.e. personal safety and economics differ in a very big way than say, the dynamics of the Confederacy and Jim Crow.
Soceity is a lot more malleable and elastic, these days. Even the players (MidEastern/Asian men of color)are different as someone astutely observed. And, the biggest factor which you have ignored is that the ideal of a color blind society is supported in all United State institutions considered in moral and good standing. Versus the notion of a segregated society that permeated at the national level in prior centuries.
I think that looking at history to illuminate the evolution of thinking and culture is a good thing. Linking history to obscure or even pardon, some CURRENT anti-social behaviors in the community, results in a bad outcome.
When a person of any of the recognized minority groups in America, commits an act of murder or robbery, its greatest victim is the person who was murdered and their families. But, the people of that recognized minority group also suffer some loss in the perception of innocence.
I am always mystified with thinking on issues like these that I believe are malleable in nature, that are fueled by pessimism, fatalism, and an acquiesence to a lessened social status based on the historical past. As opposed to a fair and unemotional examination of the social landscape, to sort out current dysfunction that correlates with soft bigotry.
Marrying historical racism to current racism is a huge mistake in this instance. (racial profilling by cabbies)
This racist cabbie conversation is so distorted as to be laughable. Having toiled behind the wheel myself for a brief period, I’ve had many discussions with blacks and other “cabbies of color” here in New York City. Even the black cabbies, the few remaining, will tell you that they fear going into certain neighborhoods because of high crime rates. Those neighborhoods tend to largely minority populated. These cabbies will also tell you that the blacks they tend to ignore by driving right on by are the young ones who dress like thugs looking for trouble.
Additionally, there are very few “white” New York cabbies these days, so it’s not the black/white thing that we constantly hear from the media and civil rights talking heads. There are simply cabbies who fear for their lives by going into certain parts of town, but we rarely hear about that side of the equation.
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 {Posts: 300 } Location: Chatsworth, CA
Posted: Thu 08 Feb 2007 18:42 Post subject:
In the D.C. area, most of the cab drivers I've encountered are Africans. They avoid picking up black men because they don't want to be robbed, killed, or stiffed for the fare.
In the DC area, where almost all the whites are middle class, a cab driver can avoid virtually all the people who want to rob and/or kill him by avoiding black men. It's that simple.
Here in So Cal, the situation is more complex. Latinos commit the overwhelming majority of violent crime here, so the stigma associated with African features may not be as strong.
One of the ironies about this situation is the way that African immigrants in the service industries see black Americans. A person of mixed Afro/Euro appearance is most certainly a black American, and therefore, a problem customer. A person of fully African appearance might be an immigrant or diplomat, and therefore not quite as bad.
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A.
Posted: Fri 09 Feb 2007 18:13 Post subject:
This just isn't worth it!
Please continue to harbor and justify your racist, discriminatory habits. I could care less, really. It just proves what most "Black" Americans already know, that most "White" people and/or "Eurocentric" thinking people (Especially Africans and/or West Indians) do not like us. What else is new?
Oh yeah, before I go...here's another one of you guy's buddies with the same kind of reasoning and excuses you all find validation for basically refusing service to "Blacks". Peace!
http://www.nbc30.com/news/10966751/detail.html?taf=har
The talk of black men not being able to get a cab, has always mystified me. I have never - not in Washington D.C, not in NYC, nor anywhere - had a problem getting a cab.
Cab drivers are usually money hungry, and cant wait to get a fare. If a cab doesnt stop for me, its because it was busy.
Joined: 02 Feb 2007 {Posts: 255 } Location: California
Posted: Fri 09 Feb 2007 20:11 Post subject:
Christina wrote:
I think that looking at history to illuminate the evolution of thinking and culture is a good thing. Linking history to obscure or even pardon, some CURRENT anti-social behaviors in the community, results in a bad outcome.
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A.
Posted: Fri 09 Feb 2007 20:18 Post subject:
Phil, just because it never happens to you, doesn't mean it isn't true. I, myself, don't get stopped by the police at all not matter where I'm driving, unless I was actually speeding on the highway. I'm a "Black" man under the age of 40, and to most, I'm a big, athletic guy who looks like a football player, not to mention, I have long dreadlocks and I'm not light skinned at all.
Having said all that, I still know that there are plenty of "AAs" and other men of color who are victims of Racial Profiling everyday, especially where I live (I live in southern New England, Connecticut to be exact).
You probably have never been shot before but you know it hurts like hell, right? So for you to say that it "mystifies" you about "Black" men being unable to hail a cab is irrelavant. You must know someone or know someone who knows about someone who couldn't/can't hail a cab when need be.
I don't get the impression that people are saying they can never get a cab, but rather saying it is more difficult for "Black" men or men who are perceived to be "Black" to get a cab. Big difference.
Please continue to harbor and justify your racist, discriminatory habits. I could care less, really. It just proves what most "Black" Americans already know, that most "White" people and/or "Eurocentric" thinking people (Especially Africans and/or West Indians) do not like us. What else is new?
Oh yeah, before I go...here's another one of you guy's buddies with the same kind of reasoning and excuses you all find validation for basically refusing service to "Blacks". Peace!
http://www.nbc30.com/news/10966751/detail.html?taf=har
Case of mistaken identity, not racism. He thought the guy was someone else.
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A.
Posted: Fri 09 Feb 2007 20:36 Post subject:
Quote:
I think that looking at history to illuminate the evolution of thinking and culture is a good thing. Linking history to obscure or even pardon, some CURRENT anti-social behaviors in the community, results in a bad outcome.
I do not agree. You have to look at history because you will see a pattern of hate emerge that has nothing to do with "CURRENT anti-social behaviors in the community...". If that were actually the case, then the Civil Rights generation wouldn't have been hated the way they were. What was the excuse back then? Did the "Blacks" of yester-year exhibit "anti-social behaviors" that warranted being routinely discriminated against? Hate is hate, no matter what/when/where/how.
Imploring that same kind of logic used in the above quote, would "Blacks" be right for harboring racist thoughts towards "Whites", and/or people who identify as such, because of "CURRENT anti-social behaviors by some within the "White" community towards "Blacks"? I say no, but why isn't this thinking reciprocated when on the other foot?
Phil, just because it never happens to you, doesn't mean it isn't true. I, myself, don't get stopped by the police at all not matter where I'm driving, unless I was actually speeding on the highway. I'm a "Black" man under the age of 40, and to most, I'm a big, athletic guy who looks like a football player, not to mention, I have long dreadlocks and I'm not light skinned at all.
Having said all that, I still know that there are plenty of "AAs" and other men of color who are victims of Racial Profiling everyday, especially where I live (I live in southern New England, Connecticut to be exact).
You probably have never been shot before but you know it hurts like hell, right? So for you to say that it "mystifies" you about "Black" men being unable to hail a cab is irrelavant. You must know someone or know someone who knows about someone who couldn't/can't hail a cab when need be.
I don't get the impression that people are saying they can never get a cab, but rather saying it is more difficult for "Black" men or men who are perceived to be "Black" to get a cab. Big difference.
So what you have to do is factor out all the things you have in common with those guys that have recurrent problems and then see what are the differences, location, attitude, clothing, something, that is getting them unwanted attention.
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A.
Posted: Fri 09 Feb 2007 21:41 Post subject:
Salsassin wrote:
Quote:
Case of mistaken identity, not racism. He thought the guy was someone else.
C'mon, Sal! Stop thinking like a lawyer for a few ticks and think like a normal hue-man being . Semantics, bro! So I guess the "We" all look alike" argument is in full effect here. Sal, you know better than that, MAN. I'm disappointed.
Salsassin wrote:
Quote:
So what you have to do is factor out all the things you have in common with those guys that have recurrent problems and then see what are the differences, location, attitude, clothing, something, that is getting them unwanted attention.
I have more faith in you than this, Sal! I hear you, though, but even when I have my "thug" gear on (baggy jeans, dreads down and flowing, timberland boots, etc) I don't have any problems. I drive a "nice" car, too. No rims or tints but then again, that should matter either. I still go where I want, when I want and how I want...but I just don't get Profiled like others. It is what it is. I have a very silent confidence about myself but I don't exude arrogance, IMO. I think as long as you act like you belong there then they (whoever it may be, i.e. Cops, bigots, a$$holes...whoever!) can't and won't touch you because you have taken that power away from them and put it into your hands. Well, that's how I see it, nonetheless.
In my younger, wilder days (I'm only 32 yrs old, btw) back in college (Prairie View, TX), I would drive back and forth to Houston (approx. 35-45 miles away) speeding while smoking a spliff and still didn't get harassed...in TEXAS!!?? Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! Either I have angels watching over me or it's sheer luck or I don't give off the "I'm a thug, please search my car" vibe...I dunno.
When I have been stopped, it was usually because of something I did illegally while driving and I'll admit that openly. I've only been Profiled, IMO, once or twice. On these occasions I know I did nothing to warrant a stop except for being a "Black" man, IMO, and the cops were younger (18-35 yrs of age) looking, accept for one - he is a Mexican cop known for Profiling "Blacks".
C'mon, Sal! Stop thinking like a lawyer for a few ticks and think like a normal hue-man being . Semantics, bro! So I guess the "We" all look alike" argument is in full effect here. Sal, you know better than that, MAN. I'm disappointed.
If he drove every black man to Jail, you would have a valid point. But if he was really being racist he wouldn't have done that and made an ass out of himself.
Quote:
I have more faith in you than this, Sal! I hear you, though, but even when I have my "thug" gear on (baggy jeans, dreads down and flowing, timberland boots, etc) I don't have any problems. I drive a "nice" car, too. No rims or tints but then again, that should matter either. I still go where I want, when I want and how I want...but I just don't get Profiled like others. It is what it is. I have a very silent confidence about myself but I don't exude arrogance, IMO. I think as long as you act like you belong there then they (whoever it may be, i.e. Cops, bigots, a$$holes...whoever!) can't and won't touch you because you have taken that power away from them and put it into your hands. Well, that's how I see it, nonetheless.
So you do see differences between yourself and them. Maybe they are fidgety, nervous around cops, or something that calls attention to them. Because if it were purely racism, you should have equal chances of getting pulled over.
Quote:
In my younger, wilder days (I'm only 32 yrs old, btw) back in college (Prairie View, TX), I would drive back and forth to Houston (approx. 35-45 miles away) speeding while smoking a spliff and still didn't get harassed...in TEXAS!!?? Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! Either I have angels watching over me or it's sheer luck or I don't give off the "I'm a thug, please search my car" vibe...I dunno.
As do many people. Which bellies that the pull overs are always racism based.
Quote:
When I have been stopped, it was usually because of something I did illegally while driving and I'll admit that openly. I've only been Profiled, IMO, once or twice. On these occasions I know I did nothing to warrant a stop except for being a "Black" man, IMO, and the cops were younger (18-35 yrs of age) looking, accept for one - he is a Mexican cop known for Profiling "Blacks".
Right. But many others would have claimed that all those stops were for profiling.
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How someone speaks or articulates their words has NO bearing on their level of intelligence (maybe their education level, but not always) nor does it acurately reflect their character. If that were the case, politicians would be the world's greatest people! They dress well and usually are very well spoken and usually very educated, but they prove they aren't the brightest people everyday by their decisions made on the Hill. BTW, 
Okay, I get you then. It's okay to be stereotyped against just as long as you are "Black" or "Black-identified". Cool. 
If this isn't what you meant, this is what comes across in your statements IMO.
Why compalin about White Racism (
to their own detriment. Acting civil and being articluate is a badge of honor that all minorities want to achieve, 
And alot of it is just cultural (TV) or ignorance.
I hear you, though, but even when I have my "thug" gear on (baggy jeans, dreads down and flowing, timberland boots, etc) I don't have any problems. I drive a "nice" car, too. No rims or tints but then again, that should matter either. I still go where I want, when I want and how I want...but I just don't get Profiled like others. It is what it is. I have a very