The Study of Racialism Forum Index
The Study of Racialism
Discussion of U.S. Racialism
Please read The Rules before posting.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch     RegisterRegister 
   Log inLog in 
'

The misrepresentation of Africa
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> International Stories
Author Message
Salsassin
Suspended
Suspended


Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3508 }

PostPosted: Sat 17 Feb 2007 00:29    Post subject: The misrepresentation of Africa Reply with quote

The misrepresentation of Africa
Selome Araya (2007-02-14)

Africa continues to be misrepresented as a continent of victims of poverty, violence and ridden with HIV/AIDS. Selome Araya says campaigns such as "Save Darfur", the Red Campaign by GAP and the "I Am An African" AIDS campaign all contribute to the stereotyping of the continent as a place of despair.


Ask anyone what they think of “Africa” and you may receive a response related to poverty, AIDS, hunger, ‘tribalism’ or animals. Trails of pity might linger in their words as a hint of disgust shimmers in their eyes. They may give an example of how they helped to “Save Darfur” or dreamed of adopting an “African orphan”. Most likely the view of the continent is that it is not a continent at all, but one large country, where everyone speaks the same language, eats the same food, wears the same type of clothing, and creates the same type of art. Yes, in their eyes, “Africa” is a homogeneous place of simple people with simple activities.

But, for someone who has never been to the continent, can they be blamed for this ignorance? The media and “humanitarian” agencies do an incredible job of misrepresenting the birth of civilization and projecting it as a down-trodden place of mishaps and has-beens. A place of disease, poverty, and chaos, and a place devoid of any history or future. Even today, it is still depicted as “The Dark Continent”, with dark tales of gore and war. And it’s not just the media. So-called “experts”, practitioners, and scholars perpetuate these stereotypes to no end, continually feeding the misrepresentation engine.

This cynicism is not to be taken lightly. “Africa” has been placed at the bottom of every pole on the international scale. It is deemed as possibly one of the worst regions on earth, and this notion is perpetuated continually with images and language, misinformation and racism, and media blitz and negative attention. Very few media outlets provide their viewers and readers with positive information about the plethora of countries and events occurring on the continent. For that would be mundane and not “sexy”. Yes, it seems that “Africa” is sexy these days. A crisis in “Africa” gets more response, more money, and more attention than a positive occurrence.

Granted, there are many issues affecting numerous countries in Africa. But I’m appalled at the fact that every time I hear of this place my family and ancestors call home, it is in a negative light, in a pitiful light, in a savagery light, in a deadly light. What I fail to understand is how all other elements of life are negated for the sake of a “good story” and a dramatic plea for funds. I have seen with my own eyes many elements of life that are beautiful beyond explanation, and I beg someone to explain to me why these elements aren’t projected.

Recently I was skimming Elle Magazine (yes, clearly not a place to be reporting on affairs of an international nature) and was deeply disturbed by the only two pages dedicated to “Africa”. The article disturbed me so much that I had to write a letter to the Editor expressing my utter disgust at their depiction. Africa was [mis] represented as a place where everyone is dying, has AIDS, or who is thirsty and hungry. There was no context provided, nor was there any balance that spoke of the positive elements of the continent. There was no mention of how people are responding to their own needs. All that was discussed were ways in which Europeans are “saving” this dreadful place from falling further into its cave of darkness. I couldn’t help but wonder how many readers of this pretentious high-fashion magazine walked away with a haunting perception of a place that they have never been to. If I were reading about “Africa” for the first time, I surely would think of it as a place that is just a hot mess of hell.

As a graduate student at Columbia University, where so-called “experts” teach aspiring public health students about “Africa”, I experience the same generalizations and stereotypes being perpetuated. These “experts” have dedicated their lives to joining the “saviour” movement that’s happening in certain circles of humanitarian assistance. And so, “women” are all victims and need outsiders to help them do everything. “Child soldiers” need to be rehabilitated by people from European countries. “Women and children” need outsiders to intervene and “save” them from the heathens that are the men in their lives. Everyone is dying of some disease. Every home seems to be in a dilapidated state with no food, water, or electricity. Almost everybody is in need of a program designed from abroad. People don’t know (or remember how) to grow their own food, so they need continual food aid packets dropped in their “communities”. And everyone belongs to a “culture” and has traditional ways that they live their lives, in their villages.

“Health” must be shaped from a Western point of view. It sickens me to hear how excited they become as they talk about the next country they are travelling to, to implement their pre-designed projects on people. They are the Lords of Poverty and aren’t even conscious of the stereotypes they carry with them as they lecture. And they’re producing an entire pedigree. Many of the students make drastic generalizations and proclamations about the countries they have lived in (for three months) and become self-proclaimed spokespersons for this region of the world.

There are also many campaigns today that continue to project negative perceptions of Africa onto the world. For people who have no exposure, direct contact, or knowledge of Africa, these campaigns are down right dangerous and counter-productive. Instead of “raising awareness” about important causes, they invoke pity for “the other” and perpetuate the concept that Africa is backwards and in need of saving. The campaigns I am referring to are the “I am African” campaign, the “Red” campaign from The Gap clothing company, and the numerous “Save Darfur” campaigns occurring in the world. As I walked down the streets of Manhattan today, I retained some of the advertisement for the “Red” campaign at the Gap. It pleads for people to help end AIDS in Africa and to save women and children from dying. Again, another universal representation of Africa for all of the Gap Corporation consumers. The millions of Gap Corporation consumers.

The “I am African” campaign is one that may have good intentions, but is grossly offensive and appalling. Appalling because an African woman is behind it, offensive because of the feathers, face paint, and European superstars posing as “Africans”. So now we have Gwyneth Paltrow with striped paint on her cheek, a plethora of jewellery on her neck, with the phrase “I am African” across her chest. I understand the point is to educate people on the AIDS crisis on the continent, but could it not have been done in a more respectful, tactful, and tasteful manner? But more importantly, what these campaigns do is make “AIDS in Africa” a commodity, something that is fashionable and marketable, and makes the only reference people have to the continent one that is linked to death and poor health. To have celebrities (who are not of African descent) say that they are “African” is to imply that since they are now “African” they also somehow have AIDS. It’s sending a message that being African is synonymous with AIDS.

International Non-Governmental Organizations who do business in “Africa” are no better. They spend much of their time and resources depicting the continent as a place that only they can “fix”, and spew out endless facts to justify their own causes. Yes, they are there to save the lowly Africans, and the more dramatic the picture or story, the more support they receive. And more importantly, the longer they stay in business. What people fail to understand is that, while it is imperative to raise awareness about the global poverty that is the reality for billions of people around the world, it is not helpful in the least to project an entire continent through a one-dimensional lens that is lined with despair and imbalance.

If people are going to campaign and discuss such despair, they need to provide context and background information, and underlying root causes of issues like AIDS and other poverty-related concerns. To simply present them independent of any other information is to represent people as helpless, hopeless victims who need saving. It is time for a change. It is time for “Africa” to be uplifted more often in the media. We need to hear more about the other dimensions of life for “Africans”; those that are not living in abject poverty and dying every second from whichever health concern is “hot” at the moment.

There’s music, there’s movement, there’s knowledge, there’s progress, there’s love, there’s tradition, there’s strength, there’s beauty, there’s nature, there’s power, there’s wealth, there’s health, there’s humanity, there’s history, there’s unity, there’s peace, there‘s LIFE. Sometimes, wouldn’t it be great to hear about these elements too? Because the “Africa” that I know is much more than death.

* Selome Araya is a community activist and freelance writer who is currently finishing her Master's degree in Forced Migration and Health.

* Please send comments to editor@pambazuka.org or comment online at www.pambazuka.org
Readers' Comments

Let your voice be heard. Comment on this article.
http://www.pambazuka.org/en/category/comment/39756
Back to top
oevega
SuperMentor
SuperMentor


Joined: 04 May 2005
{Posts: 2021 }
Location: santiago, chile

PostPosted: Sat 17 Feb 2007 01:16    Post subject: Perceptions? Reply with quote

Well,

Africa is at the bottom, isn't?

People is dying in mass from HIV, hunger and other disseases, and the life expectancy is down to 40 years. While population growth is out of control. It is the continent with the largest percentage of analphabets in the world. Infrastructure is minimal, violence is rampant, problems are infinite.

While the rest of the world has progressed in the last 40 years, Africa is the only place where things go backwards.

Is that just a "perception"?

I am afraid that's the reality. Calling it just a "perception" is just forgetting people of Africa, I believe.

Africa can be a beutiful continent but that has anything to do. Rural China is beautiful, Japan Fuji is beautiful, Northern Canada is beautiful, and South America is not only beautiful but outstanding. That has anything to do with developent and people's quality of life. Haiti is a tropical paradyse but anyone volunteer to live there?


Omar
Back to top
Salsassin
Suspended
Suspended


Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3508 }

PostPosted: Sat 17 Feb 2007 02:51    Post subject: Re: Perceptions? Reply with quote

oevega wrote:
Well,

Africa is at the bottom, isn't?

People is dying in mass from HIV, hunger and other disseases, and the life expectancy is down to 40 years. While population growth is out of control. It is the continent with the largest percentage of analphabets in the world. Infrastructure is minimal, violence is rampant, problems are infinite.

While the rest of the world has progressed in the last 40 years, Africa is the only place where things go backwards.

Is that just a "perception"?

I am afraid that's the reality. Calling it just a "perception" is just forgetting people of Africa, I believe.

Africa can be a beutiful continent but that has anything to do. Rural China is beautiful, Japan Fuji is beautiful, Northern Canada is beautiful, and South America is not only beautiful but outstanding. That has anything to do with developent and people's quality of life. Haiti is a tropical paradyse but anyone volunteer to live there?


Omar

The point you are missing Omar is that Africa is not one nation with one trend.
Recent Economic Trends in Africa and Prospects for 20061
Africa Competitiveness Report
I believe I schooled you on this before.
Salsassin wrote:
Your racism is showing Omar. So are you insinuating Black people can't have stable governments? Or that HIV is rampant in all of Africa?

" Unlike many of its African counterparts, Botswana has managed to shrewdly take advantage of its vast mineral wealth and transform itself from one of the world’s poorest nations to a middle-income economic success story in less than 3 decades ( 2001 per capita GDP of $7,800). "

" All these honors are a testament to Botswana’s commitment to promote free enterprise, free markets, and minimal state interference in business. The country is dedicated to a policy of economic growth through endorsing entrepreneurship, investment and free trade. Botswana has become an increasingly attractive investment for both direct projects and portfolio flows for several reasons. "

http://www.global.ucsb.edu/alumni/botswana.htm

Africa is not a country. Education varies by region, country, culture and social class. Africans in England have the highest level of Academians per capita in that country. In the USA Africans have more kids in college per capita than Afro-Americans Hardly an indication of lack of intelligence or education.

On HIV
http://www.who.int/entity/hiv/AFRO2005.pdf
http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/adultmort/UNAIDS_WHOPaper2.pdf

The USA HIV positive population is 0.33% of the population. .6% of the adult population. In Chile it is .3% of the populations There are some African countries that beat that statistic.

* HIV prevalence statistics as percent of population in various countries:
o 2% of adult population in Somalia (AIDS Epidemic Update, UNAIDS, 2003)
o 2% of adult population in Gambia (AIDS Epidemic Update, UNAIDS, 2003)
o 20% of adult population in South Africa (AIDS Epidemic Update, UNAIDS, 2003)
o 20% of adult population in Zambia (AIDS Epidemic Update, UNAIDS, 2003)
o 37.5% of adult population in Botswana (AIDS Epidemic Update, UNAIDS, 2003)
o 31.5% of adult population in Lesotho (AIDS Epidemic Update, UNAIDS, 2003)
o 38.6% of adult population in Swaziland (AIDS Epidemic Update, UNAIDS, 2003)
o 33.7% of adult population in Zimbabwe (AIDS Epidemic Update, UNAIDS, 2003)
o 12.9% of adult population in Central African Republic (AIDS Epidemic Update, UNAIDS, 2003)
o 9.7% of adult population in Cote d’Ivoire (AIDS Epidemic Update, UNAIDS, 2003)
o 5.8% of adult population in Nigeria (AIDS Epidemic Update, UNAIDS, 2003)
o 15% of adult population in Kenya (AIDS Epidemic Update, UNAIDS, 2003)
o 5% of adult population in Uganda (AIDS Epidemic Update, UNAIDS, 2003)
* Prevalence of AIDS as percent of population by country world-wide:
o 0.1% of adult population have AIDS in Algeria 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 5.5% of adult population have AIDS in Angola 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 3.6% of adult population have AIDS in Benin 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 38.8% of adult population have AIDS in Botswana 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 6.5% of adult population have AIDS in Burkina Faso 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 8.3% of adult population have AIDS in Burundi 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 11.8% of adult population have AIDS in Cameroon 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 0.04% of adult population have AIDS in Cape Verde 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 12.9% of adult population have AIDS in Central African Republic 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 0.12% of adult population have AIDS in Comoros 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 4.9% of adult population have AIDS in Democratic Republic of the Congo 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 7.2% of adult population have AIDS in The Republic of the Congo 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 9.7% of adult population have AIDS in Cote d’Ivoire 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 11.75% of adult population have AIDS in Djibouti 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o Less than 0.1% of adult population have AIDS in Egypt 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 3.4% of adult population have AIDS in Equatorial Guinea 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 2.8% of adult population have AIDS in Eritrea 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 6.4% of adult population have AIDS in Ethiopia 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 9% of adult population have AIDS in Gabon 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 1.6% of adult population have AIDS in The Gambia 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 3% of adult population have AIDS in Ghana 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 1.54% of adult population have AIDS in Guinea 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 10% of adult population have AIDS in Guinea-Bissau 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 15% of adult population have AIDS in Kenya 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 31% of adult population have AIDS in Lesotho 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 9% of adult population have AIDS in Liberia 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 0.2% of adult population have AIDS in Libya 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 12% of adult population have AIDS in Malawi 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 22.5% of adult population have AIDS in Namibia 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 13% of adult population have AIDS in Mozambique 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 5.8% of adult population have AIDS in Nigeria 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 8.9% of adult population have AIDS in Rwanda 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 7% of adult population have AIDS in Sierre Leone 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 1% of adult population have AIDS in Somalia 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 20.1% of adult population have AIDS in South Africa 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 2.6% of adult population have AIDS in Sudan 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 33.4% of adult population have AIDS in Swaziland 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 7.8% of adult population have AIDS in Tanzania 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 6% of population have AIDS in Togo 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 5% of adult population have AIDS in Uganda 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 0.6% of adult population have AIDS in United States 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 21.5% of adult population have AIDS in Zambia 2001 (CIA, 2004)
o 33.7% of adult population have AIDS in Zimbabwe 2001 (CIA, 2004)


Need to educate yourself.
Back to top
oevega
SuperMentor
SuperMentor


Joined: 04 May 2005
{Posts: 2021 }
Location: santiago, chile

PostPosted: Sat 17 Feb 2007 03:09    Post subject: Africa Reply with quote

Yes. First, Subsaharan Africa and North Africa are two different worlds separated by the Sahara. I should have say subsaharan

And, second, this is the HIV map in Africa. The worst is south of the Sahara, and as you can see in here



By the way, you don't need to "school" me in things I already know. I appreciate that, though.

Omar
Back to top
Salsassin
Suspended
Suspended


Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3508 }

PostPosted: Sat 17 Feb 2007 03:18    Post subject: Re: Africa Reply with quote

oevega wrote:
Yes. First, Subsaharan Africa and North Africa are two different worlds separated by the Sahara. I should have say subsaharan

And, second, this is the HIV map in Africa. The worst is south of the Sahara, and as you can see in here



By the way, you don't need to "school" me in things I already know. I appreciate that, though.

Omar

Last I checked Sudan, Somalia, and Madagascar are Sub-Saharan.
Back to top
oevega
SuperMentor
SuperMentor


Joined: 04 May 2005
{Posts: 2021 }
Location: santiago, chile

PostPosted: Sat 17 Feb 2007 13:56    Post subject: Tragedy Reply with quote

My point is quite simple, Jaime: Subsaharan Africa is living a tragedy right now. It is not a matter of image or pride. It is a thing people should realize and help.

Omar
Back to top
Salsassin
Suspended
Suspended


Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3508 }

PostPosted: Sat 17 Feb 2007 18:19    Post subject: Re: Tragedy Reply with quote

oevega wrote:
My point is quite simple, Jaime: Subsaharan Africa is living a tragedy right now. It is not a matter of image or pride. It is a thing people should realize and help.

Omar

Yes, there are aspects of the region that are tragic. And others are not.
Back to top
Dragon Horse
Superuser
Superuser


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
{Posts: 1301 }
Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva

PostPosted: Mon 19 Feb 2007 06:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

oevega:

Rolling Eyes

All of Sub-Saharan Africa is not "tragic"...if you look at Botswana's economic growth, Ghana, Senegal and many other countries they have moderate economic growth rates and governments that have been stable for quite awhile or since impendence. Most nations in Africa are relatively peaceful, there are over 50 on the continent, and maybe only 4 or 5 have active on going conflicts.

As far as overpopulation, that is ridiculous. Africa has been historically under-populated. If you check out most Africa countries population density by person/sq km it is much lower than anywhere in Europe, most of the United States and also much of Latin America, and Asia forget about it. The issue is not land space, it is resources (namely food and fresh water for people).

As far as HIV, that is bad, but when you break it down...there are about...what 40 million people in the entire world that have HIV, most of those in Africa (like what 60% or so)...okay Sub-Saharan Africa has how many folks...800 million (on a continent that is as big as Europe and North American combined with some extra space, with less people than India and China)...so that would mean what? There are 24 million people with HIV in Africa, which is about 3% of the total population. We know that some natoins like South Africa have huge rates, and some like Senegal or Nigeria have rates lower than (Washington DC, NYC, etc)...so 3% is not as bad as the media makes it out.

I would also say that more Africans die from treatable communicable diseases every year other than HIV, such as dysentery.

As far as Latin America having a beautiful country side and Africa being horrible what is the source of this information? Africa has deserts, savannah, rainforest, and temperate lands. Africa has such low population density many countries, have large amounts of wide open land and some of the largest national parks in the world. Also rural China is not beautiful who told you that. I lived in China in 1999, in Shanghai when I studied at the Shanghai Foreign Language University. I took many trips out to Jiangsu province, where Nanjing is, and the cities that Marco Polo visited (Wuxi and Huangzhou) and almost all the rivers are filthy, so are the lakes. There is run off from factories and poor agricultural practices. Almost all of my friends in Shanghai got throat infections from the pollution (coal burning among other things) that make the air so dark it looks like it is raining on days when it is supposed to be sunny. How is it that China is cleanlier than rural Kenya where people pay big money to go on Safari? Also don’t get me started about Mexico…geezz…highly polluted and dirty, even in rural villages.

As far as economic growth, as a continent there has been a lack of sustained growth, but if you look at the last 20 or 30 years it is not true that Africa has collectively had negative economic growth…that is nonsense. I think you need to go to the African Development bank or World bank websites…IMF also and check the data. Botswana has had one of the highest economic growth rates in the world for the last 25 years. The situation is bad but not as bad as you make it out to be. It is not like Latin America is a model for economic or political stability. How many economic crisis and bailouts have their been since the early 1980’s? What about civil wars and revolutions?

As far as violence there have been a lot of civil wars on the continent, but not in the majority of countries..not even close to the majority. Remember there are over 50 countries in Africa. Also if you check the UN Crime surveys on the UNs website you can see that crime in many African countries (violent crime) is lower than in Eastern Europe and in countries like Brazil or Columbia by far. All of Africa is not Nigeria or Congo.

I really think you are allowing bias (if it be racial/continental/cultural) to influence your thinking more than real world facts and data.
Back to top
oevega
SuperMentor
SuperMentor


Joined: 04 May 2005
{Posts: 2021 }
Location: santiago, chile

PostPosted: Mon 19 Feb 2007 12:51    Post subject: UN Reply with quote

Well,

Looking to U.N. statistics Africa looks pretty bad.

Perhaps is time for U.N. to change theirs numbers.
All those campains to help Africa also help to produce a terrible imagine of Africa.

Yes, if it were so good, they don't need our help. simple.

Omar
Back to top
Dragon Horse
Superuser
Superuser


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
{Posts: 1301 }
Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva

PostPosted: Mon 19 Feb 2007 14:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

What UN statistics? Which ones? Anyone can make vague statements. Give me the name of the stats.

Same can be said for much of Latin America. If it were so great they would not need constant financial bailouts, America Peace Corp (as well as other foreign nations help), they would not have had so many civil wars, political upheavals, politicians literally ran out of office, intervention from the United States, so on and so forth.

My point is not that Africa is a hidden paradise. The point is that it is unfair to misrepresent how bad things are based on stereotypes. Rolling Eyes

Also as discussed, Africa, like Latin America is not one country. There is a lot of variation on the continent, to claim the entire continent is a horrible place and not qualify the statement is more than a misrepresentation when you are talking about over 50 nations.
Back to top
Dragon Horse
Superuser
Superuser


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
{Posts: 1301 }
Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva

PostPosted: Mon 19 Feb 2007 14:47    Post subject: Reply with quote


There are obviously countries in Africa that have serious problems according to the world development index, there are also those that are equal to or surpass much of Latin America, China, and India, and Southeast Asia.
Back to top
oevega
SuperMentor
SuperMentor


Joined: 04 May 2005
{Posts: 2021 }
Location: santiago, chile

PostPosted: Mon 19 Feb 2007 15:10    Post subject: Africa Reply with quote

Latin America, in average is a lot richer than subsaharan Africa. Only the white segment of South Africa compites.

Who are you trying to trick?

Comparing Subsaharan Africa with Latin America is like comparing Mexico with Japan. Just compare the alphabetism figures or the life expectancy figures and you'll realize that.

Omar
Back to top
Dragon Horse
Superuser
Superuser


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
{Posts: 1301 }
Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva

PostPosted: Mon 19 Feb 2007 19:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

On average this is true, but that does not mean it is always the case. Also I see more states on average as good as many Latin American countries than South Africa, which have no significant white populations. Unless you are color blind then I would assume the UN map speaks for itself.

There is no fooling involved, data speaks for itself. As i said, it is not mystery that Africa as a whole is in a worst state but it is intellectual dishonest to claim the entire continent is hell on earth, when it is not. From what you said initially it tells me you have little real knowledge of the continent and rely on stereotypes that are likely racially motivated. That's fine...we all have stereotypes, but it is another thing to be shown reality and still live in denial, that is not ignorance...it is quite another thing.
Back to top
oevega
SuperMentor
SuperMentor


Joined: 04 May 2005
{Posts: 2021 }
Location: santiago, chile

PostPosted: Mon 19 Feb 2007 20:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dragon Horse wrote:
On average this is true, but that does not mean it is always the case. Also I see more states on average as good as many Latin American countries than South Africa, which have no significant white populations. Unless you are color blind then I would assume the UN map speaks for itself.

There is no fooling involved, data speaks for itself. As i said, it is not mystery that Africa as a whole is in a worst state but it is intellectual dishonest to claim the entire continent is hell on earth, when it is not. From what you said initially it tells me you have little real knowledge of the continent and rely on stereotypes that are likely racially motivated. That's fine...we all have stereotypes, but it is another thing to be shown reality and still live in denial, that is not ignorance...it is quite another thing.


I said "subsaharan Africa" not Africa.

Now, South Africa has a significan White population. There are more Whites in South Africa than Blacks in the U.S. And they are still in power. One of my custumers is a South African minning company. All people in here (Chile) are White South Africans, and if you ask them where are they from, they say England. No kidding. They live in South Africa better than most upper classes in Latin America. The differences are pathetic. And I am talking about the after-Mandela age.

Dishonesty is changing fact to fit dreams. If you want to fix something you have to start by recognizing it has a problem. That's all.

Now, a region were people live only 40 years on average is not a paradise.

Omar
Back to top
Dragon Horse
Superuser
Superuser


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
{Posts: 1301 }
Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva

PostPosted: Mon 19 Feb 2007 21:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

oevega wrote:
Dragon Horse wrote:
On average this is true, but that does not mean it is always the case. Also I see more states on average as good as many Latin American countries than South Africa, which have no significant white populations. Unless you are color blind then I would assume the UN map speaks for itself.

There is no fooling involved, data speaks for itself. As i said, it is not mystery that Africa as a whole is in a worst state but it is intellectual dishonest to claim the entire continent is hell on earth, when it is not. From what you said initially it tells me you have little real knowledge of the continent and rely on stereotypes that are likely racially motivated. That's fine...we all have stereotypes, but it is another thing to be shown reality and still live in denial, that is not ignorance...it is quite another thing.


I said "subsaharan Africa" not Africa.

Now, South Africa has a significan White population. There are more Whites in South Africa than Blacks in the U.S. And they are still in power. One of my custumers is a South African minning company. All people in here (Chile) are White South Africans, and if you ask them where are they from, they say England. No kidding. They live in South Africa better than most upper classes in Latin America. The differences are pathetic. And I am talking about the after-Mandela age.

Dishonesty is changing fact to fit dreams. If you want to fix something you have to start by recognizing it has a problem. That's all.

Now, a region were people live only 40 years on average is not a paradise.

Omar


I was also speaking about SubSahara Africa...

All countries in SubSahara Africa do not have that low of life expectatancy in fact I would dare you to find any data that shows the average life expectancy of SubSahara Africa 40 years of age. I am not denying there are nations like that in Africa, but that is not the norm.

As far as facts you have provided none. I have not changed anything. What fact have I distorted?

There are not more whites in South Africa than blacks in the US...that is false.

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sf.html#People


Quote:
black African 79%, white 9.6%, colored 8.9%, Indian/Asian 2.5% (2001 census)


That means in South Africa there are roughly 44 million folks, with 9.6% of them as white or 4.2 million whites.

In America there are 300 million people, with 13% being African American...39 million people almost the entire population of South Africa.

Do you want to rephrase that statement?

Anyway, South Africa is also one nation there is more than one nation on that map that is in SubSahara Africa that has a standard of living roughly equal to Brazil or Columbia, such as Camroon, Gabon, Ghana...all on the map. Camroon has "non-African less than 1%"

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cm.html#People

Hmmm


Laughing

You want to look at crime rates? Lets look at Murder rates since they are easy to track and fairly consistant in definition. We can do that too.

Lets look at Columbia, Brazil, El Salvador.


Columbia:

"During the late 1950s and early 1960s, Colombia had the third highest rate of homicides in the world."

"less than 10 percent of the crimes committed were adjudged related to political violence."

In 2000, "Columbia will be compared with Japan (country with a low crime rate) and USA (country with a high crime rate). According to the INTERPOL data, for murder, the rate in 2000 was 69.98 for Columbia, 1.10 for Japan, and 5.51 for USA."

Brazil:

"According to the INTERPOL data, for murder, the rate in 2001 was 22.98 per 100,000 population for Brazil, 1.10 for Japan, and 5.61 for USA."


El Salvador:

"According to the INTERPOL data, for murder, the rate in 1998 was 38.80 for El Salvador, 1.10 for Japan, and 6.80 for USA. "


Now lets look at Camroon, Gabon, and Ghana:

Camroon:

"For the year 1998, the rates of crime for various offenses per 100,000 population were murder rate 0.38"

Gabon:

Unreported

Ghana:

"for murder, the rate per 100,000 population in 2000 was 2.48 for Ghana, 1.10 for Japan, and 5.51 for USA."


All data from http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/rwinslow/africa/ghana.html

hMMM...South America is such a paradise that people murder each other like it is going out of style in major countries in the region, but although Africa is poor, in countries that have similar standards of living Africans have a much much lower violent crime rate. Hmmmm....

Should we look at some more data?
Back to top
Salsassin
Suspended
Suspended


Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3508 }

PostPosted: Mon 19 Feb 2007 23:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL. Good response Dragon.
Back to top
oevega
SuperMentor
SuperMentor


Joined: 04 May 2005
{Posts: 2021 }
Location: santiago, chile

PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb 2007 01:26    Post subject: statistics Reply with quote

What is surprising is that you have statistics,

In many cases they don't even know how many people live in theirs countries, no kidding

Omar
Back to top
oevega
SuperMentor
SuperMentor


Joined: 04 May 2005
{Posts: 2021 }
Location: santiago, chile

PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb 2007 01:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salsassin wrote:
LOL. Good response Dragon.


[ad hominem edited out -- FWS]
Back to top
Salsassin
Suspended
Suspended


Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3508 }

PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb 2007 01:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

oevega wrote:
Salsassin wrote:
LOL. Good response Dragon.


[ad hominem edited out -- FWS]

Touché Frank. Laughing
Back to top
Dragon Horse
Superuser
Superuser


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
{Posts: 1301 }
Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva

PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb 2007 02:02    Post subject: Re: statistics Reply with quote

oevega wrote:
What is surprising is that you have statistics,

In many cases they don't even know how many people live in theirs countries, no kidding

Omar


Neither does the United States, primarily due to illegal immigration, which is primarily from South of the U.S. border. Confused
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> International Stories All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group