Posted: Wed 01 Dec 2004 00:25 Post subject: A deeper look at an artist who refused to be white
Kilian is trying to make something heroic out of accepting the "one drop" myth. Beardon was only following orders, obeying the status quo, etc. What's heroic about that? Courage lies in defying the status quo and rejecting the ODR.
>--------------------
>A deeper look at an artist who refused to be white
>--------------------
>
>Michael Kilian
Chicago Tribune
>
>November 25, 2004
>
>NEW YORK -- Romare Beardon (1911--1988) was not only one of the most
>talented American artists of the 20th Century but also one of the most
>complicated.
>
>An extremely light-skinned African-American, he easily could have lived
>his life as white but refused to do so, devoting most of his art to
>African-American life and the struggles of blacks to achieve respect and
>equality.
>
>(A star baseball pitcher at Boston University as well as for the all-black
>minor-league Boston Tigers, he declined an offer to pitch for the
>major-league Philadelphia Athletics in 1930 because management insisted he
>pretend to be white.)
>
>Celebrated now with a remarkably comprehensive exhibition at New York's
>Whitney Museum of Art (originally organized by Washington's National
>Gallery of Art), Beardon was as prolific an artist as his skills were
>diverse. The more than 2,000 artworks he produced in his career included
>paintings, drawings, watercolors, monotypes and other prints, cartoons,
>collages and photographs.
>
>(He was also a poet, book author, prolific songwriter, illustrator and
>designer of record album covers and stage sets.)
>
>One sculpture
>
>Yet in all his life he produced only one sculpture: a largely abstract
>work of wood inspired by the tale of Mauritius, a black soldier in the
>Roman army who was beheaded for refusing to abandon his Christianity.
>
>Beardon was a deeply spiritual artist, especially after serving in the
>Army in World War II, but his subjects included highly erotic nudes and
>brothels, as well.
>
>He was born in rural North Carolina and lived there, in Pittsburgh, New
>York's Harlem (where his parents were active in the Harlem Renaissance of
>the 1920s and 1930s), Paris and the Caribbean. Yet one of his best known
>works, the 1973 wall mural "Berkeley -- The City and Its People," was of a
>place he had never visited before undertaking the project.
>
>Beardon studied under German Expressionist George Grosz and was an admirer
>of left-wing Mexican muralist Diego Rivera. He studied European Old
>Masters, post-war Abstract Expressionists and even Chinese art. But his
>style was uniquely his own.
>
>"I am trying to explore, in terms of the particulars of the life I know
>best, those things common to all cultures," Beardon said.
>
>He was a master painter and draftsman throughout his career, but it was
>not until he started making his dramatic collages (using photos clipped
>from newspapers and magazines) during the civil rights movement of the
>1960s that he achieved national recognition as an artist.
>
>"The collages connected him to the modern," said Whitney curator Barbara
>Haskell. "He took the idea of representation, but by using small units of
>shape, he made it more modernist."
>
>One of his most famous collages, his 1964 "The Street," masses cutout
>faces and human figures together with claustrophobic brick and pavement
>and distant architectural cityscape in a hurly-burly jumble. One cannot
>think of its counterpart in the art of the times.
>
>"He wasn't one of the superstars," Haskell said, attributing that to
>Beardon's pursuit of his own vision instead of popular trends.
>
>Beardon used the collage technique to extraordinarily evocative effect in
>his musical pictures, which burst with mood and color and, if you will,
>sound. Among the masterworks of this kind in the 150 works in the
>exhibition are "Of the Blues, At the Savoy" (1974), "Of the Blues,
>Mecklenburg County, Saturday Night" (1974) and "Thank You . . . For
>F.U.M.L. (Funking Up My Life)" (1978).
>
>Black beauty
>
>He was fascinated with the beauty of black women, in all their roles and
>circumstances, from saintly motherhood to prostitution, the latter
>portrayed in such sensual works as "The Twenties, Mecklenburg County,
>Railroad Shack Sporting House" (1978) and "New Orleans, Storyville
>Entrance" (1976).
>
>Beardon was a devotee of the music and life of New Orleans' Jelly Roll
>Morton, who rose to prominence at a time when jazz was inextricably linked
>with that city's tawdry palaces of prostitution. It was a world explored
>by the legendary photographer Ernest Bellocq and one not far removed from
>that inhabited by French painter Henri Toulouse-Lautrec.
>
>But, as the curators of this show note, there's irony in Beardon's
>depicting his black bawds as inmates of the palaces. Storyville, which was
>shut down during World War I, flourished at a time of strict segregation.
>White prostitutes reclined on the chaises longues; black ones more usually
>had to work the streets.
>
>In his last years, when he spent much of his time in the Caribbean,
>Beardon's art underwent a profound change.
>
>"The work ceased to be about race," Haskell said. "It became more
>generally human."
>
>This was particularly true of the brilliant, almost rapturous landscapes
>he produced, some, such as "Birds in Paradise" (1982) and "Mecklenburg
>Autumn, October -- Toward Paw's Creek" (1983), employing virtually every
>color visible to the eye.
>
>Romare Beardon, the artist who refused to be white, received the National
>Medal of Arts from President Reagan in June 1987. He died seven months later.
>
>The Whitney exhibition will be on view through Jan. 9.
>
>
>
i knew Romaire quite well as a child. He spent alot of time in St Martin where my family is from. one of his famous paintings "josies sunset" is the view from my aunties house. He was a HUGE inspiration to me. Has nothing to do with one drop anything. Has everything to do with being and doing what you feel and what you love.
I don't see what the big deal is. If the man identified with the african american coummunity that was his choice. It's not like anyone forced him to be black, he took it upon himself. I don't understand why so many people here are trying to pull people away from being black. Can you explain how he was accepting the one drop myth?
I too wonder why there is such a mass hysteria over a light complexed man choosing to identify with his Afro-American hertiage. It would be a totally different story if he didn't have our ancestry at all! If that were the case, then that would be cause for concern.
I don't see people questioning Hispanics for trying to make Christina Aguliera a LATINA, when she is in fact only HALF Hispanic and was raised "White" in an all "White" family!
Neither is any other group but American Negros (as they would call us), be questioned for wanting to keep their hertiage alive.
Is Bill O'Reily not allowed to speak of being a 'Proud Irish', despite the fact that most Whites who claim to be Irish or Italian are really only a 1/4 or an 1/8 of such hertiages?
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I have yet to see anyone else's PRIDE in their ethnic hertiage questioned other than Black Americans. I suppose others would have us think we have nothing to be proud of, have accomplished nothing since we've been here, and should immediately try to asborb into whatever "superior" race that will take us..............
I find it offensive because they make it seem as if afro americans rely solely on mulattos to make us look good. Sure there's been alot of mulattos and mixed people who've played an important part in our history but they majority of our leaders, musicians etc. are just black. If they wanted to help blacks achieve equality, that's there choice. Nobody forced them to be black or associate with black people.
I find it offensive because they make it seem as if afro americans rely solely on mulattos to make us look good. Sure there's been alot of mulattos and mixed people who've played an important part in our history but they majority of our leaders, musicians etc. are just black. If they wanted to help blacks achieve equality, that's there choice. Nobody forced them to be black or associate with black people.
BlackHaze,
You know I honestly don't think recognizing these people's FULL hertiage (which has been an excuse used by many) is really the case. Or whether which Black people had more White Blood vs. Black. Just think: Whenever a White looking person wins an Olympic gold medal or a wins a Science Award, count how many times you've had reports or MULTRACIAL groups run over and question HIS OR HER hertiage? Do they question White identified (or even Hispanic identified) people about WHAT THEY HAVE IN THEM? Does it really matter if a sucessful White person acknowledges that he is 1/4 Indian or 1/8 Italian? Likewise does Daisy Fuentes have to tell you any other hertiage thats in her Cuban identity??
Why is there not an hysteria for all other non-AA's to claim every drop of themselves?
On the contrary. I think all this fuss is about these people's racial identities (whether or not they consider themselves Afro-American). Most people have been taught that Blackness and a Black identity is shameful. Most foriegners learn this very early on. I suppose most non-Blacks bask in the thought of America being Negro free one day!
Look around at other countries that use to be packed fulled with ebony Africans. Today you could probably count on your fingers the number of people who even claim Black blood neverless consider themselves 'blacks'.
[/b]Is this what Afro-Americans are suppose to look forward to?
Well I personally don't. And I'm going to keep preaching my own self pride message until I get kicked out of this group too. Afro-American hertiage deserves the same respect that Irish, Italian, Hispanic, etc get.
Our descendents/children have the right , whether they are BLONDHAIRED AND BLUE EYED or COMPLETELY AFRICAN IN BLOOD to call them selves by that hertiage: Afro American! I'm not going to let others, most of whom don't have my own hertiage to start with, try to tell ME that someone must have a specific blood quantum to be African American. Has being only HALF CUBAN-AMERICAN stopped Cameron Diaz from being a "latina" or "Hispanic" or "White" or even being called 'Cuban American'? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Does being 1/4 Italian keep all thESE White kids from claiming to be Italians? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I've also seen Mariah Carey's race listed as "Hispanic"...............did it matter then if she was BIRACIAL and the "Hispanic" term did not take into consideration of her AA hertiage, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I hope you don't let anyone pursade you BlackHaze anytime soon (not that I think you will be), into compromising your hertiage to be someone else's either. Their's is no more important than a Black American one![u]
Good post, i couldn't have said it anybetter. As a black american i will never let anyone persuade me into compromising my own heritage. My mother is creole from new orleans and my father is a mulatto but they both identify as black and taught me to be proud of being black. If someone asks me what i am, i'll acknowledge my full mixture but that doesn't mean im not black. In my opinion, black doesn't only apply to people with dark skin but it's also a social label that draws us closer together. By seperateing dark skin from light, it only sperates us because it puts light skinned blacks above the dark. But the thing that i find most disturbing about mutiracial groups is that they encourage black people to date and have children with white people. I see this as an attempt to destroy both black and white people.
All you have to do is take a trip to any third world country south of the border. Most latin countries used to have alot of black people but now there's very few. The few that still exist are so ashamed of being black that they won't even admitt they're black. I don't want to see this happen in america because i allready know what the outcome would be. There would be a nation full of mixed breeds who look down upon the blacks. I won't let this happen to my people and neither should anyone else who takes pride in being black.
I think that people need to understand that the term "African American" was origianally meant to be an ethnicity, not a race. Meaning you could be black, mulatto, 1/4 or 1/8 black but still consider yourself african american. I respect those who choose to identify as something different but for me, it gives me a sense of kinship. I think when mixed people realize this, they'll learn to take pride in both of their races without distancing themselves from the rest of the afo american community.
Good post, i couldn't have said it anybetter. As a black american i will never let anyone persuade me into compromising my own heritage. My mother is creole from new orleans and my father is a mulatto but they both identify as black and taught me to be proud of being black. If someone asks me what i am, i'll acknowledge my full mixture but that doesn't mean im not black. In my opinion, black doesn't only apply to people with dark skin but it's also a social label that draws us closer together. By seperateing dark skin from light, it only sperates us because it puts light skinned blacks above the dark. But the thing that i find most disturbing about mutiracial groups is that they encourage black people to date and have children with white people. I see this as an attempt to destroy both black and white people.
All you have to do is take a trip to any third world country south of the border. Most latin countries used to have alot of black people but now there's very few. The few that still exist are so ashamed of being black that they won't even admitt they're black. I don't want to see this happen in america because i allready know what the outcome would be. There would be a nation full of mixed breeds who look down upon the blacks. I won't let this happen to my people and neither should anyone else who takes pride in being black.
I think that people need to understand that the term "African American" was origianally meant to be an ethnicity, not a race. Meaning you could be black, mulatto, 1/4 or 1/8 black but still consider yourself african american. I respect those who choose to identify as something different but for me, it gives me a sense of kinship. I think when mixed people realize this, they'll learn to take pride in both of their races without distancing themselves from the rest of the afo american community.
Interesting and scary thought.
Well I personally don't think White Americans have anything to fear. I remember reading a CIA ethnic/race fact sheet for each country. They had the United States as 85% WHITE, AND 13% BLACK, the rest was Asian and the few Indians we have left. They didn't include the Hispanic population b/c they said it was an "ethnic group" and NOT a race. Since you are aware of this very issue you surely understand that a 13% Black poplulation can NEVER ABSORB a 85% White IDENTIFIED people. HOWEVER, we CAN be absorbed and our identity/legacy lost forever!
So a White identity is much more dangerous to us than we can ever be to them! Its really scary to think that we might one day be like the forgotten Blacks in Mexico that we shake our head at now.
However, I DON'T think that will happen to us. I'm sure I'm a little bias but I think AA's are a special little people put here for a reason. We've managed to accomplished what most Whites in other countries couldn't do. I think MOST of us will continue to instill PRIDE in our hertiage to our future children in the next generations to come.
______________________________________________________
One thing that I have learned since talking to Multiracialist is that the blood quantity really doesn't count nor does it really matter. Identity is about WHAT PART OF YOUR HERTIAGE YOU TAKE PRIDE IN and not about recognizing ALL of your so call hertiage!!! I read somewhere that Brazilian Whites were about 20-30% non-White in hertiage, yet the majority of them insisted that they were not "mixed" ONLY White (and also that these studies were nothing but lies). Everyone in latin America takes so much PRIDE in being WHITE that they could care less about any other blood no matter how large or small the amount. If folks can do this with White blood why can't Afro-American blood be treated the same way: with uttermost importance???!
.......Black Americans should contine to teach this! No matter how big or small the amount the blood quantum, we have to make it DAMN IMPORTANT, even to the piont were it more important than all other hertiages.
I believe its FOOLS GOLD following the example of other Black peoples who wanted ONLY to assimilate thinking that it would give their children and grandchildren's a better chance at life or either bring pride to their race. Where has it gotten such people? They are at the bottom of the barrow, no political power or voice, they are written out of the countries history (and when they are mentioned it is only comments like "50,000 black slaves were brought to the country ).
I also forgot to add I PERSONALLY don't think America will EVER EVER be a Mixed raced country. I think a countries' Black/White populations must be around the same size to create a mixed raced environment.
I check out the "Mulatto" groups from time to time. I laugh to myself. Anyone who fights to distance themselves from their AA blood will surely become WHITE when given the chance...........eventually. I believe a mixed race people would last about as long as a snowball in hell. Whiteness is very hard to say no to, especially when given the CHANCE. You and I truly don't have anything to fear from 'mixed raced people'. They are only a pain in the neck really. And its one important thing you have to remember about these militant mulattos you meet on the internet. THEY ARE THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF BLACK PARENTS. So truly it is the Black parents fault for not instilling PRIDE in their hertiage as it is these people. Honestly I blame the Black parent MORE than anything actually. I believe they are the sons and daughters of Black men and women who sit around and belittle their own race! Eventually the children pick up on this and make the "joans" and "victorias" of the internet. I've met many other mixes who were very proud of their Afro-American ancestry and wouldn't trade it for the world. That's why I believe this Black bashing isn't a "mixed child syndrom", its more of a BLACK PROBLEM!
**************************************
If 50% of AA's intermarried and called their children "mixed raced" instead of "Black" we'd be something like 6.5% of the population, "mixed folks" would be another 6.5% and Whites would STILL be like 78%!!!!
Truly it wouldn't do a damn thing to them really, but it would destroy us!
Now you understand why A.D. is always talking shit about dark and light skinned AA's marrying yet actually ENCOURAGING Black/White marriages! She knows darn well the only way to slay the Black American "giant" is to destroy his numbers. Right now we are too large and politcally together to do anything too...................but let the "Afro American" numbers slump down to 6 or 7% and we'll be right for the picking![/i]
Now you understand why A.D. is always talking shit about dark and light skinned AA's marrying yet actually ENCOURAGING Black/White marriages!
Please do not attribute motives to (or otherwise disrespect) other members. See Posting Rules item A.3.a. You have been warned.
Wow, that's a new one. You must revise these rules every other day. I never read anything about questioning someone's (group memeber or otherwise) motives.................
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1763 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Sun 02 Jan 2005 00:05 Post subject:
Ah yes, here we go again..........
girlfromthenc wrote:
I also forgot to add I PERSONALLY don't think America will EVER EVER be a Mixed raced country. I think a countries' Black/White populations must be around the same size to create a mixed raced environment.
Really now!!! I hate to break to you, but America is already a mixed race country. It has been for quite some time. Though there does exist a "black" ethnicity which has more to do with environment than it does with blood lines, IMO. No, a countries black/white populations do not have to be about the same size to create such an environment. Check out a large part of Latin America, Brazil in particular.
girlfromthenc wrote:
I check out the "Mulatto" groups from time to time. I laugh to myself. Anyone who fights to distance themselves from their AA blood will surely become WHITE when given the chance...........eventually. I believe a mixed race people would last about as long as a snowball in hell.
Like you questioned me why I frquented black forums, why do you frequent "Mulatto" groups?? I have seen you get slammed with the truth and all you do is come up with rhetoric which most of the time you cannot substantiate. At least I can substantiate what I post.....
Why do you believe that mixed race people would last as long as a snowball in hell??? I'm curious as to your reason if you even bother to address this.
girlfromthenc wrote:
You and I truly don't have anything to fear from 'mixed raced people'. They are only a pain in the neck really.
Wow, what a contradiction!! See below how you contradicted yourself here!!!
Why are mixed race people a "pain in the neck"?? If you relly didn't fear them, then they wouldn't be. You would just live and let live.
girlfromthenc wrote:
And its one important thing you have to remember about these militant mulattos you meet on the internet. THEY ARE THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF BLACK PARENTS. So truly it is the Black parents fault for not instilling PRIDE in their hertiage as it is these people.
FYI, I thought at first it was a typo, but it's throughout all of your posts. It's not hertiage, but HERITAGE, a little tid bit of information for you to use at your disposal.
What evidence do you have that militant mulattos on the net are really the offspring of black parents??
girlfromthenc wrote:
If 50% of AA's intermarried and called their children "mixed raced" instead of "Black" we'd be something like 6.5% of the population, "mixed folks" would be another 6.5% and Whites would STILL be like 78%!!!!
Truly it wouldn't do a damn thing to them really, but it would destroy us!
Ah yes, your quote that contradicts your statement that you do not fear mixed race people!!! This is exactly the reason why black groups oppose such a designation. This amounts to nothing but Stalinistic group think and mind control. You do not want the individual to decide for themselves. You show your true colours (no pun intended) very easily!!!
girlfromthenc wrote:
She knows darn well the only way to slay the Black American "giant" is to destroy his numbers. Right now we are too large and politcally together to do anything too...................but let the "Afro American" numbers slump down to 6 or 7% and we'll be right for the picking!
This is from the person who stated "You and I truly don't have anything to fear from 'mixed raced people'. They are only a pain in the neck really. "
Thhis is not only fear, but an attempt at a scare tactic!!!
girlfromthenc wrote:
Is Bill O'Reily not allowed to speak of being a 'Proud Irish', despite the fact that most Whites who claim to be Irish or Italian are really only a 1/4 or an 1/8 of such hertiages?
Again, this is completely false. I can personally attest that this is false because many of my friends are of Irish or Italian heritage. Many are both. I live in a part of the country where Italians consist of tyhe largest ethnic group (NY State), and Irish are the second.
BlackHaze wrote:
I find it offensive because they make it seem as if afro americans rely solely on mulattos to make us look good. Sure there's been alot of mulattos and mixed people who've played an important part in our history but they majority of our leaders, musicians etc. are just black. If they wanted to help blacks achieve equality, that's there choice. Nobody forced them to be black or associate with black people.
Somewhat true. But you are wrong when you state that the majority of leaders, musicians, etc, are just black.
Here is a sample of a list of the "talented tenth" from the book The Color Complex byKathy Russell, Midge Wilson, and Ronald Hall: 1993, pp 31-32:
Benjamin Banneker Invented Clock mulatto
Frederick Douglas Activist mulatto
Booker T Educator mulatto
Also, Elijah McCoy (the real McCoy) was mulatto or not full blooded black. And of course William Edward Burkhardt DuBois, who was a decendant of the French Huguenot DuBois family of New Paltz, NY.
Even 20th Century prominate blacks were really mixed: Adam Clayton Powell, Thurgood Marshall, Andrew Young, Jesse Jackson, Julian Bond, MLK, David Dinkins, Doug Wilder, Ernest Morial, Colin Powell (distantly related to Princess Diana), Condi Rice....I could go on and on.
Of course a lot of these folks assume a black identity. But put them in Latin America or some parts of the Mid East, and the people there will not consider them black.
MLK and jesse jackson are mixed? where's your proof?
If you think these people to be mixed, then nearly all black americans can be considered mixed. Believe it or not, with the exception of colin powell, all of the people you listed would still be labeled black in latin america. Anyway, i think mixed people should be able to identify anway they choose, why dont you?
MLK and jesse jackson are mixed? where's your proof?
If you think these people to be mixed, then nearly all black americans can be considered mixed. Believe it or not, with the exception of colin powell, all of the people you listed would still be labeled black in latin america. Anyway, i think mixed people should be able to identify anway they choose, why dont you?
HE JUST WANTED TO HEAR HIMSELF TALK! HELL I COULD TELL A SIMILAR LIE AND SAY MOST WHITE ENTERTAINERS ARE REALLY 'MIXED" GOING BY THE MANY WHITE CELEBS THAT CLAIM NATIVE AMERICAN ANCESTRY IN THEIR HERTIAGE!
APPEARANTLY HE DOESN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOMEONE CONSIDERING THEMSELVES "MIXED" AND SIMPLY CLAIMING DISTANT ANCESTRY................
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS PROOF AS WELL BLACKHAZE! AND I DON'T MEAN A COPOUT WITH THE PERSON CLAIMING DISTANT NON-BLACK ANCESTRY.............I MEAN REAL PROOF THAT ALL THESE PEOPLE HAD EQUAL WHITE BLOOD TO MATCH THEIR BLACK HERITAGE!
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1763 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Sun 02 Jan 2005 05:30 Post subject:
BlackHaze wrote:
MLK and jesse jackson are mixed? where's your proof?
Anyone with a set of eyes can see that Jesse Jackson has a Caucasian structured face. In fact he is definetely part Irish. MLK has a colour indicative of someone who is mixed. I am sure if we got a hold of a geneologist, they would deduce that they are both mixed.
BlackHaze wrote:
If you think these people to be mixed, then nearly all black americans can be considered mixed.
Yes this is true, BlackHaze, now you're starting to see the point here.
BlackHaze wrote:
Believe it or not, with the exception of colin powell, all of the people you listed would still be labeled black in latin america.
No, this is not true at all. In the Dominican Republic, the people I listed would not be black. Javier will attest to this fact but he has not been around for a while. They also would not be black in Brazil. There are articles on www.interracialvoice.com you can read and familiarize yourself on how race is perceived in Latin America...it's quite different from North America.
BlackHaze wrote:
Anyway, i think mixed people should be able to identify anway they choose, why dont you?
Oh I do indeed. It's the One Droppers who have the problem...just look at the posts from girlfromthenc...........
girlfromthenc wrote:
HE JUST WANTED TO HEAR HIMSELF TALK! HELL I COULD TELL A SIMILAR LIE AND SAY MOST WHITE ENTERTAINERS ARE REALLY 'MIXED" GOING BY THE MANY WHITE CELEBS THAT CLAIM NATIVE AMERICAN ANCESTRY IN THEIR HERTIAGE!
Are you angry??? Is there a reason why you have to "yell"?? Oh no, what I posted is indeed the truth. I even offered substantiation in the book I obtained my informtion from in case you would like to see for yourself.
girlfromthenc wrote:
APPEARANTLY HE DOESN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOMEONE CONSIDERING THEMSELVES "MIXED" AND SIMPLY CLAIMING DISTANT ANCESTRY................
I guess I'm thick headed, I don't quite understand what you're getting at here. A lot od people considered black in the US have more distant African ancestry than they do European, so I don't even know that YOU know what you are referring to here.
girlfromthenc wrote:
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS PROOF AS WELL BLACKHAZE! AND I DON'T MEAN A COPOUT WITH THE PERSON CLAIMING DISTANT NON-BLACK ANCESTRY.............I MEAN REAL PROOF THAT ALL THESE PEOPLE HAD EQUAL WHITE BLOOD TO MATCH THEIR BLACK HERITAGE!
Proof:
The Color Complex: The Politics of Skin Color Among African Americans as I indicated in an above post. Particularly Chapter 2: The Color Gap in Power and Priviledge
Who is Black?: One Nation's Definition by F. James Davis.
Also read the articles that Frank Sweet has authored on this website. there is a wealth of information regarding race and perception and definition.
Also access Interracial Voice where you will also find a wealth of information.
I find it odd that someone demands proof from me who does not prove what she posts when asked and becomes hostile. You really need to grow up.
girlfromthenc wrote:
OH WISE ONE, TAKE A LOOK AT DEAN LAST COMMENT!
SURELY THERE IS SOMETHING IN THE ODR RULEBOOK THAT CONTAINS TO HIS COMMENTS!
You obviously have not read the rule specified:
Quote:
a. If you disagree with something that another member has written, focus your comments on the content of others post, not on their person. Do not attribute motives to them. Do not try to ridicule them. Address yourself only to what they have written. List members are generally mature enough to refute (or just ignore) unacceptable ideas. But anyone can become enraged when attacked personally. Again, this is just advice; the rule is to not antagonize others.
Where in my post did I antagonize you or anyone else?? You are clearly not mature enough for intelligent discussion. I have been respectful to you even as I prove what you have posted is in a large part, wrong. You on the other hand are hostile and disrespectful. It is proven here because you are trying to antagonize Frank, and yelling at him to boot.
This is the last time I will discuss with you until you have become mature and respectful.
OK Dean, i see what you're saying. I'm sure everybody knows that most black americans have some caucasian or possibly native american admixture but most are predominately african. I read somewhere that the average black american is around 25-30% white. I'm not sure if this is accurate, but even if it is, it's not enough to be considered mixed in my opinion. In my eyes, being mixed is also being a part of two seperate cultures or ethnicities.
I've read the atricle before but i still feel the same way.Most black americans would still be considered black in latin america. The dominican republic and brazil were not good examples because those countries have a mass population of really dark people who look like they came straight out of the congo jungle. Therefore, those countries have different definitions of what it means to be black. In Brazil or DR, i would definately be labeled mulatto. However in puerto rico(where the majority are lighter than me) i would still be considered black. What i'm trying to say is that, racial classifications vary from country to country in latin america. Countires that have alot of black people tend to lower the standards of what it means to be mixed/mulatto.
Girlfromthenc doesn't seem like a one droppist to me, she just seems like person who wants to preserve the legacy of her race/ethnic group. As i said before, i think mixed people should have the right to identify however they want. But the person who created this topic doesn't. She made it seem like mixed people only identify as black because they have no choice.
MLK and jesse jackson are mixed? where's your proof? If you think these people to be mixed, then nearly all black americans can be considered mixed.
Since BlackHaze was talking about ethnic self-identity, rather than about genetics, I agree with him. Judging by the census, almost everyone who claims to be of the "Black race" does so uniquely and without admixture. Very few who check off "Black" on the census also check off anything else (White, Indian, Asian, etc.).
My problem, as moderator, is that this discussion is under the overall category of genetics. Genetically, of course, BlackHaze is dead wrong. Most African-Americans have easily detectable European DNA admixture and about five percent of so-called "Black" Americans lack any detectable African DNA admixture at all. If BlackHaze is interested in genetics, then I suggest that he read the essays recommended in the lead message of this forum category. I especially recommend Afro-European Genetic Admixture in the United States and The Rate of Black-to-White Passing.
My point is simply that it helps to be clear whether someone is talking about ethnic self-identity or about genetics. This discussion thread began about genetics, but has shifted to ethnicity. If it continues to debate ethnic self-identity, I shall move the thread, intact, from the present forum category, "America's Admixed Population," to one of the ethnicity categories: either "History of the Color Line" or "History of the One-Drop Rule." The move will not affect your discussion, of course. I just do not want you-all to be suprised to find the thread moved to a different category.
I'LL TRY TO GIVE THE "NICEST" PARTING WORDS I CAN MANAGE. YOU HAVEN'T PROVED NOR PROVIDED PROOF FOR ANY OF YOUR LAME BRAIN THEORIES SINCE YOU'VE BEEN HERE!
FYI- WHO'S BLACK, IT WAS ABOUT THE HISTORY OF MIXED RACED PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD AND THEIR DIFFERENT SOCIAL POSITION! FYI.FYI. IT DOESN'T "PROVE" THAT BLACK AMERICANS ARE "MIXED". IN FACT THE BOOK (WHICH I READ COVER TO COVER), SPEAKS OF HOW FEW DIRECT WHITE ANCESTORS THE AVERAGE BLACK AMERICAN HAS. "THE MIXENESS" THAT THE FEW AA'S THAT DO CLAIM TO BE MIXED COMES FROM MULATTO-MULATTO AND MULATTO-BLACK PAIRINGS.
THE DAMN BOOK "SAID" THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. I SUPPOSE YOU THOUGHT THIS PITFUL EXCUSE OF "PROOF" WAS GOING TO SLIDE, SINCE YOU FIGURED I HADN'T READ THE BOOK! I'M ALSO WILLING TO BET THAT OTHER BOOK (WHICH I HAVEN'T HAD THE PLEASURE OF READING), ISN'T ANY DAMN "PROOF" EITHER. I BET THE AUTHOR OF THIS BOOK TALKS HIS LIGHT SKINNED FAMILY WHO TRIED TO STAY OUT OF THE SUN AND MARRY LIGHT............AND YOU TRY TO USE THAT AS "PROOF" THAT MOST AA'S ARE MIXED!
GOOD DAY! ITS PIONTLESS TALKING TO YOU AS WELL AS A WASTE OF TIME! YOU ARE ONLY HEAR TO HEAR YOURSELF TALK. YOU HAVE NO ISSUE OR CONCERN OR KNOWLEDGE OF THE SITUATION YOU'RE JUST "HERE".
I ENJOYED YOUR CIRCUS WHILE IT LASTED HOWEVER I'M GETTING TO OLD FOR IT. ITS NO LONGER "ENTERTAINING". I WON'T GO ANYWHERE WERE (ANYMORE) WHERE PEOPLE THINK ITS PERFECTLY OK TO FLAME A GROUP OF PEOPLE SIMPLY B/C THEY DON'T LIKE THEM. I CALL IT IMMIGRANT JEALOUSY, AND AFRO-AMERICANS ARE A VICTIM OF IT. NEITHER WILL I GO ANYWHERE WHERE THE "WEBMASTER" HAS SPECIAL "PETS". AS LONG AS WE ARE FLAMING AA'S EVERYONES' OK. THE MINUTE WE SPEAK OF THE IGNORANCE IN IT AND THE PEOPLE WHO DO IT: ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE AND SOMEONE IS SUPPOSELY 'BREAKING A RULE". .........OF COURSE THE REAL RULE BEING BROKEN IS NOT "SCAPEGOATING".
GOOD LUCK ANYHOW, IN YOUR BOOK SALES AND SUCH! I REALIZED A LONG TIME AGO YOU WERE NOT CONSIDERED WITH AMERICAN HISTORY, YOU WERE TRYING TO SEE TICKETS TO YOUR SHOWS AND BOOKS.
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Whiteness is very hard to say no to, especially when given the CHANCE. You and I truly don't have anything to fear from 'mixed raced people'. They are only a pain in the neck really. And its one important thing you have to remember about these militant mulattos you meet on the internet. THEY ARE THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF BLACK PARENTS. So truly it is the Black parents fault for not instilling PRIDE in their hertiage as it is these people. 
