Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Tue 03 Apr 2007 16:06 Post subject:
fwsweet wrote:
chasbyrd wrote:
oevega wrote:
Even with all the pains that is suffering Subsaharan Africa today, there still exist Zimbabwe and Ife, and many things that could make your people proud.
How can any sane person take pride in the situation in Zimbabwe?....
I think that Omar was referring to "Great Zimbabwe," the old trading city with the stone walls that was abandoned in the 15th century, not the modern nation.
Yes, I was talking of Great Zimbabwe, and about the ancient cultures of South and West Africa. The Eredo walls of Nigeria, for example. Ancient Benin. All of these things show that Subsaharan Africa also have an important heritage people should be aware of.
I think Subsaharan Africa is in the middle of a Dark Age, now. But nothing stops it from having a Renacense in the future. China and India were very poor just half a century ago, for example.
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A.
Posted: Tue 03 Apr 2007 16:32 Post subject:
Dragon Horse wrote:
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It is not disrespectful because it differs from my opinion. It is disrespectful to trash your own people in this country before foreigners and claim there is “something wrong with us” when they live (on average) far more trifflin’ than we do.
Okay. Where in any of my posts on this thread did I "trash my own people before foreigners" and claim there is "something wrong with us" that justifies it? Please copy and paste direct quotes of me saying this and/or eluding to this.
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My comments about Africa are not disrespectful because they are true. If they are not then disprove the information as I have given as lies.
That's a matter of opinion and opinions vary. I don't have to disprove the disinformation you provided, nor will I try. Your mind is already made up and this is not a "pissing contest".
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“uppity elites” = Bill Cosby? What? Bill Cosby has done more for black people in 1 year of his life than you have likely done all your life. If I’m wrong please correct me. Cosby has standards, don’t degrade him for that.
Well, give Bill a jello pudding pop while your at it. Yes, he is, IMO, an "uppity, elite" type of "African-American". What? Standards? And I don't have standards? How have I degraded him? I used him as an example of an "upper"-class "Black"-American...no need to get your panties in a bunch. I see you took issue with the perceived attack on "upper"-class "Blacks" but had no problem with the derogative terms I used for the "lower"-class "Blacks in the same sentence. Hmmmm. Why is that? Yeah. I've seen this movie before, too ( ).
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No I see no intelligence in this authors new “name” calling and it does not make me think, anymore than “oreo” and “sellout” make me reflect on the level of ignorance of the morons using the terminology.
Yet, you and others have no qualms or moral hang-ups about "name" calling the, as you always put it, "the bottom 25% of our black American population", now do you? You can't have it both ways. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones! Beside, his article called out everybody within the "African-American" Community as a whole...from the rich to the poor, showing no favortism as far as I could see.
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As far as culture, a lot more than language defines it. I would say a shared history is the most important. Many Jews don’t speak Hebrew but that does not mean they feel no ties to other Jews who may speak Arabic, Russian, German, French, etc.
Alllllrighty then. Many Jews don't speak Hebrew because they choose to speak Yiddish, instead. And from what I've seen and heard, they look down upon those who don't speak Yiddish, regardless of where they come from. I know for a fact Jews have problems with any Jews with very discernable African ancestry so I don't think those ties are as strong as you claim they are.
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Another conspiracy theorist. You do know that there are many black Africans who work for the WHO, the UN in general, the IMF, and the World Bank right? I already know where your head it at, I saw this movie before.
No, really? And that means what? There are "Blacks" who work in the White House, does that mean there is no racism in America? And for the record, DH... I already know where your head it at, I saw this movie before, too! That door swings in both directions.
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In some countries the answer is definitely yes. It really depends on the region. I would say it is no coincidence that the more Muslim the area in Sub-Saharan Africa the less HIV you have and the further South you go the more it increases. I would say Botswana’s are quite sexually active more than the European average. More than Russians, maybe or maybe not. In Russia HIV is spreading mostly due to drug use. In Africa that is not the case.
And you have evidence of this? From what source(s)? So you actually believe that? So I guess it's true..."Blacks" are more sexually active and We just can't help Ourselves.
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I would say though the more important thing is that Africans use condoms less. Most HIV there is spread by heterosexual sex and it is often from men having multiple sex partners (often prostitutes) and using no protection. This is not rocket science. The disease vector was in West Central Africa and spread probably a long time before anyone knew what it was, but in most countries it is not slowly down, some like Uganda it is, but in others the only reason it is slowly down (as in Botswana) because most people between 20-40 have it.
Wow! So you actually believe that this disease was produced by nature? Do you also believe it came from green monkeys, too?
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What is black culture exactly? Can you define “black culture”? What is the “black” language, the “black religion, “the black dances”, the “black traditions” that would be universally recognized in Africa in any country?
That was the point of the article, man! There is/are none this far west. There are traces of it (Our past African cultures) in almost all hypodescent people's cultures that we've coalesced into the larger, mainstream cultures that We've come to know as Our own...but ultimately, there is/are no "Black" culture(s) unless you are talking about specific African cultures.
That's exactly what I got from the article and that's essentially what I was agreeing with from the article. The term he uses to describe "Us" ("Black" North Americans) seemed accurate within the context of the story. I don't see it as selling out at all. I see it as a point being made to us all within the "African-American" diaspora.
If anything, I think "Blacks" around the world look to "Black" Americans as examples of strength and determination. Everything has been done and/or tried to "Us" but "We" are still here. That says something about Our spirit, IMO, that nobody can lable and/or rename. "Black", "Negro", "Afro"/"African"-American, "Nigger", Boy/Gal, "coon", "Sambo", etc are all names and/or terms meant to define us, but what truely defines "Us" as a people is Our perserverance and Our ability to adapt and overcome, even in extremely hostile environments.
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I agree there is some self hate in our community, no doubt. I also agree we were stripped of our original cultures and languages? However there are many 2nd and 3rd generation non-=white immigrants in this country who do not practice the culture of their forefathers or speak their language and they do just fine.
Yes, but that is/was their choice. Whereas, We weren't given that choice. And I'd argue the fact that these "2nd and 3rd generation non-=white immigrants in this country who do not practice the culture of their forefathers or speak their language and they do just fine" definitely practiced the culture of their parents within their respective homes. The fact of the matter, though, is they choose not to follow their parent's native cultures once here in America. Something Our ancestors didn't have a choice in that decision.
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What I’m saying to you is we aren’t going to get all those languages and cultures back. We are now officially mutts, 100%.
I agree with the second half of this statement completely. I do believe that We could learn those languages and cultures if We want to. Another point the article was making, IMO.
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I have no issue with learning about Africa, especially West Africa. That’s good, I have various books at home on African history.
Good. You are obviously well read in European/Asian cultures. I'd hope you would at least put that same effort and respect into African cultures to round it out. We need more "Black" men teaching children within the "Black" community. Do you do any kind of mentoring within the "hood"? I ask because that's where guys such as yourself would do a lot of good. Those kids need to see more "Blacks" with degrees who work and/or live in their neighborhoods who actually look like them, especially men.
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We have been on this land for about 400 years. We have our own heritage and culture to be proud of. If you can’t find something to be proud of in all that your people have accomplished here then something is wrong. Making up some fake generic “black African” culture is just setting yourself up for a big let down. We are no longer them. We are something else the world has not seen before. Jamaicans don’t pretend to be African. They are proud to be Jamaican although they came from the same place our black ancestors come from.
I am very well aware of how long We have been here. I'm very proud to be a "Black" American because my ancestors slaved for this country with free labor to help make it the richest country on the planet. So many of Our people died in vein for me not to be proud of who I am. I never once displayed any disloyalty to my ethnicity or it's people anywhere in my posts! I reject that implication full heartedly! I've made up no "...fake generic “black African” culture" either. I'm "Black"...and proud of it! I even explained why I choose to call myself "Black" instead of "African"-American in one of the Latino threads. Identifying myself as "Black", IMO, connects me with the "Black" populations across the globe instead of isolating Ourselves here in America to a specific "race"/ethnicity. It's universal, IMO.
Jamaicans are proud to be Jamaicans because they have "independance" and their own flag/country made up largely of African descended people. They were also able to keep a lot of the old customs and traditions from Africa and incorporate them into their mdern day culture. It's deeply rooted in Jamaican culture today. Even the so called "sell-outs" of Jamaica display some form of pride in their African culture that lives within the larger Jamaican culture. Jamaicans weren't discriminated against in the same ways and/or as harshly or as long as We were here in the States. Big difference.
Question: If a dog gives birth to puppies in an oven...does that make the puppies biscuits? Think about that...
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Don’t say we. [Sankofa ] Say they or me. I don’t have these issues and I’m more educated and more wealthy than the average white man in America. The fact that the bottom 25% of our black American population ahs issues is not going to be cured by Afrocentrist, if that was the case it would have been solved 40 years ago when these morons first came up with this nonsense. I don’t see many middle class blacks preaching that crap it is usually folks from the hood or who are in the hood. That is not the solution.
Oops. My bad! My mistake for including you in "Black" America. Well, all I can really say is, "I’m speaking of the “average” and the variance around the mean" and "Every country has outliers, so what?" Also, wouldn't that make you "obviously an outlier" within "Black" America? Personally, I don't most of the problems that I speak of either, but as a whole, there are a lot more "Black" Americans who do have them. That's why I say "We" with quotations...it signifies the group as a whole. You're very callous in your "don't say We" statement because I know damn well you have some family who aren't in your position. Even the Huxtables had family from the "hood", so if you don't then your family is very fotunate and very rare within "Black" America.
That's part of the reason why "We" (excluding you! ) have the types of problems "We" have as a whole. We are the only group in America who gets judged as a whole by the actions of a few (with the exception of Arabs, but even they aren't judged in the same manner as "Us").
Why do you assume that being Afrocentric is a bad thing? Marcus Garvey was a bad person to you? Stokely Carmichael, Bobby Seal, etc...you didn't find their meesages to be honorable? The government squashed the Afrocentric movements because they saw the power in the messages. The messages were of self empowerment, self reliance, knowledge of self and responsibility for community. The government countered the messages of the "Black"/Afrocentric movements with Integration, IMO. Integration is what really destroyed the "Black" community, IMO. Ask some of the old timers in your family if you do not believe me.
I see you took issue with the perceived attack on "upper"-class "Blacks" but had no problem with the derogative terms I used for the "lower"-class "Blacks...
Is Sankofa complaining that some people regard education and civic duty more highly than ignorance and anti-social behavior? It seems reasonable to me.
DH wrote:
You do know that there are many black Africans who work for the WHO, the UN in general, the IMF, and the World Bank right.
Sankofa wrote:
And that means what? There are "Blacks" who work in the White House, does that mean there is no racism in America?
Strawman. The wording is clear. It means that there are many black Africans who work for the WHO, the UN in general, the IMF, and the World Bank.
DH wrote:
I already know where your head it at...
Ad hominem. Where Sankofa's head is at is irrelevant to the discussion.
Sankofa wrote:
And for the record, DH... I already know where your head it at...
Ad homimen. Where DH's head is at is irrelevant to the discussion.
DH wrote:
it is no coincidence that the more Muslim the area in Sub-Saharan Africa the less HIV you have and the further South you go the more it increases. I would say Botswana’s are quite sexually active more than the European average.
Sankofa wrote:
So I guess it's true..."Blacks" are more sexually active and We just can't help Ourselves.
Gross strawman. This strawman is so tacky that it gets a first warning just for sheer grossness.
Sankofa wrote:
So you actually believe that this disease was produced by nature? Do you also believe it came from green monkeys, too?
I do not know about "green monkeys," but there is no doubt that the HIV virus, like every other disease, is produced by nature. If Sankofa wants to argue for a supernatural origin (God's wrath or some such thing), this is definitely the wrong website to do it in.
Sankofa wrote:
That's part of the reason why "We" (excluding you! ) have the types of problems "We" have as a whole. We are the only group in America...
Sankofa's claiming to have been elected spokesperson for millions of people of African descent without a shred of evidence of when, where, and how he was so elected is not against site rules. But, as I tried (unsuccessfully) to point out to Caribj once, it utterly destroys any credibility that Sankofa may have had and makes him look ridiculous.
Sankofa wrote:
Why do you assume that being Afrocentric is a bad thing? Marcus Garvey was a bad person to you? Stokely Carmichael, Bobby Seal, etc...you didn't find their meesages to be honorable? The government squashed the Afrocentric movements because they saw the power in the messages. The messages were of self empowerment, self reliance, knowledge of self and responsibility for community. The government countered the messages of the "Black"/Afrocentric movements with Integration, IMO. Integration is what really destroyed the "Black" community, IMO. Ask some of the old timers in your family if you do not believe me.
The desirability of reimplementing forced segregation of African Americans as advocated by extreme Afrocentrist nationalists is an interesting topic that deserves its own thread in the "Improving U.S. Society" forum.
Alllllrighty then. Many Jews don't speak Hebrew because they choose to speak Yiddish, instead. And from what I've seen and heard, they look down upon those who don't speak Yiddish, regardless of where they come from. I know for a fact Jews have problems with any Jews with very discernable African ancestry so I don't think those ties are as strong as you claim they are.
Many American Jews who are religious go to Hebrew school where they learn Hebrew. Most American Jews do not speak Yiddish, and some, if they are Misrahi or Sephardic, speak Arabic, Farsi or Ladino.
As far as Jews having problems with Jews with any African ancestry, I would argue it depends on the Jew. Quite a few Jews are interracially married to black men and women, so we would be safer saying some Jews have problems with Jews with noticeable African ancestry.
Sankofa wrote:
I am very well aware of how long We have been here. I'm very proud to be a "Black" American because my ancestors slaved for this country with free labor to help make it the richest country on the planet. So many of Our people died in vein for me not to be proud of who I am. I never once displayed any disloyalty to my ethnicity or it's people anywhere in my posts! I reject that implication full heartedly! I've made up no "...fake generic “black African” culture" either. I'm "Black"...and proud of it! I even explained why I choose to call myself "Black" instead of "African"-American in one of the Latino threads. Identifying myself as "Black", IMO, connects me with the "Black" populations across the globe instead of isolating Ourselves here in America to a specific "race"/ethnicity. It's universal, IMO.
If this is your reason for calling yourself Black-it ties you populations across the globe, some which may not view you the same way you view them-then it is contrived.
Sankofa wrote:
Jamaicans are proud to be Jamaicans because they have "independance" and their own flag/country made up largely of African descended people. They were also able to keep a lot of the old customs and traditions from Africa and incorporate them into their mdern day culture. It's deeply rooted in Jamaican culture today. Even the so called "sell-outs" of Jamaica display some form of pride in their African culture that lives within the larger Jamaican culture. Jamaicans weren't discriminated against in the same ways and/or as harshly or as long as We were here in the States. Big difference.
Jamaicans are proud for a variety or reasons, the least of which is the retention of African customs and having their own flag….Trust me. BTW, don’t African Americans have their own flag?
One could conclude from your statement that African-descended people can only be proud of who they are if they’ve retained some African traditions. There is scant evidence to support this. And black people in the United States have their own culture. It may not be what existed “back home” but they have one nonetheless.
Sankofa wrote:
Why do you assume that being Afrocentric is a bad thing? Marcus Garvey was a bad person to you? Stokely Carmichael, Bobby Seal, etc...you didn't find their meesages to be honorable? The government squashed the Afrocentric movements because they saw the power in the messages. The messages were of self empowerment, self reliance, knowledge of self and responsibility for community. The government countered the messages of the "Black"/Afrocentric movements with Integration, IMO. Integration is what really destroyed the "Black" community, IMO. Ask some of the old timers in your family if you do not believe me.
Self empowerment, self reliance, knowledge of self and responsibility for community were not the sole preserves of Afrocentrics, and the government didn’t counter Afrocentric movements or messages by promoting integration. Integration was promoted by the Civil Rights Movement and most black leaders beginning with the Niagara Movement. It was various state governments that were opposed to measures to end de jure segregation in public facilities.
With regard to Garvey, he went beyond self-empowerment, etc., into the realm of back to Africa fantasy and megalomania. This combined with his mismanagement of the Universal Negro Improvement Association and the vendetta other black leaders had against him did him in.
Seale is not Afrocentric. Moreover, in recent years, he has publicly criticized some of the violence and questionable tactics of the Black Panther Party, which even in its heyday, was more into playing with Marxist revolution than promoting race separatism.
Carmichael was just one in a long-line of saber rattlers who offered nothing more than empty rhetoric while he lived high on the hog in Guinea (as opposed to the U.S. or his native Trinidad).
Self empowerment, self reliance, knowledge of self and responsibility for community were not the sole preserves of Afrocentrics, and the government didn’t counter Afrocentric movements or messages by promoting integration. Integration was promoted by the Civil Rights Movement and most black leaders beginning with the Niagara Movement. It was various state governments that were opposed to measures to end de jure segregation in public facilities.
With regard to Garvey, he went beyond self-empowerment, etc., into the realm of back to Africa fantasy and megalomania. This combined with his mismanagement of the Universal Negro Improvement Association and the vendetta other black leaders had against him did him in.
Seale is not Afrocentric. Moreover, in recent years, he has publicly criticized some of the violence and questionable tactics of the Black Panther Party, which even in its heyday, was more into playing with Marxist revolution than promoting race separatism.
Carmichael was just one in a long-line of saber rattlers who offered nothing more than empty rhetoric while he lived high on the hog in Guinea (as opposed to the U.S. or his native Trinidad).
Gordon, would you mind very much copying and pasting the above reply into the new thread in the "Improving U.S. Society" forum? I am trying to split that particular discussion from ethnic self-identity.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Tue 03 Apr 2007 18:14 Post subject:
Sankofa:
The way I interpreted your initial post is that something is wrong with black Americans because we do not act afrocentric enough for some Africans or Caribbean people. I see this as “trashing” our people, implying we do not have a culture of our own to be proud of and holding us to a standard of people who by all measurable metrics are inferior to us.
I did not post “disinformation”. All my sources are widely acknowledged as credible sources that I could also use in academic peer reviewed papers. I have not posted anything from any racial site or right wing site. If you refuse to recognize their validity then I would say that the only issue lies with you. Unless you claim to be an “expert” on the subject and have verifiable evidence to prove the source invalid.
I took issue with your remark against Cosby because he has done quite a bit for black people in this country since my mother was a child, he deserves respect. He has not behaved in a way that is “uppity” he grew up in the hood too during a time when discrimination was very real and overt.
Saying the bottom 25% of blacks (economically) have various problems is not “throwing stones” or “name calling” it is reality. It is what it is. I have not said anything untrue in regard to this segment of our population. If I have please state what is a lie.
First off, Yiddish is only spoken by Ashkenazi Jews who once lived in the Germanic lands, and eventually moved East into Poland and all the way to Russia. Yiddish is a German dialect with a lot of Hebrew words. Most Jews in the world do not speak Yiddish and never have. There are Sephardic, Mizrahi, Ethiopian Jews, Chinese Jews, etc. None of the ladder speaks Yiddish as an native language and the “other” Jews make up more than half of Israel today. Hebrew in the lingua franca there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_languages
If Jews hated blacks, they would not have imported 90,000 of them (over 85% of their population) to Israel in Operations Solomon and Moses. I’m sure there are some racist among Jews but reality is that most of them can not be racist if they agreed to pay for the importation of all these black peoples.
I posted the link to the source. Like I said…I believe some populations of blacks are more sexually active, just as I know Japanese are more active sexually on average than people in Mainland China. The most important factor is not sexual activity but the use of condoms.
Diseases mutate and spread to humans from animals all the time. The majority of diseases that inflict humans are from animals, measles (cattle); tuberculosis (cattle); smallpox (cattle and other live stock); influenza (pigs and ducks); pertussis (pigs and dogs); malaria (chicken and ducks), bubonic plague (rats).
Further more Chimps and some other lower apes have diseases very similar to HIV. Why don’t you look it up this should be common knowledge by 2007. Chimps are the closest animals to us genetically it is not a leap of faith or logic to see that a disease that they have had for thousands of years can jump from them to humans (especially when local populations eat “bush meat”) and become highly virulent in humans. This happens all the time throughout history.
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If anything, I think "Blacks" around the world look to "Black" Americans as examples of strength and determination. Everything has been done and/or tried to "Us" but "We" are still here. That says something about Our spirit, IMO, that nobody can lable and/or rename. "Black", "Negro", "Afro"/"African"-American, "Nigger", Boy/Gal, "coon", "Sambo", etc are all names and/or terms meant to define us, but what truely defines "Us" as a people is Our perserverance and Our ability to adapt and overcome, even in extremely hostile environments.
I agree with this.
It makes no difference if the culture was forced to stop or overtime later generations just stop practicing it, the result is the same. The old culture is gone. To me it after my family has been here for more than 10 generations it means little to hear what you said, I’m sure it had a significant impact on the first couple of generations. In 2007, I’m as Africa as a Polish American kid is Polish…really not at all. How that came to be is significant from a historical perspective but has no barring on what I’m doing right now in my life.
I do some mentoring once a week with a program here in the DC metro area called “College Bound”, so does my wife. Most of the mentors in the program are not black unfortunately, they are white women. This is the first year I have done this and I actually got involved due to a Japanese friend of my wife, whose husband is white.
I see your point about Jamaicans but race does not = culture. Unless you believe that culture is encoded genetically or genetically based. I do not. I believe that you can be black, be raised in France and no nothing about Africa at all and still live a healthy productive life and have self esteem. If history shows us anything it shows us that culture, like countries are not stagnant they are in a state of flux.
2,000 years ago there were no French, no Spanish, no Portuguese, no Russians, no Romanians, no Swiss. All of these “cultures” came into existence in relatively recent history. French no longer consider themselves Roman citizens, and I would be that the average French person knows next to nothing about Roman culture, although many of their descendants were Romans, and some were also Celts and Germanic…but they probably know even less about that. I don’t see them suffering. Hungary was founded by Asiatic nomad who intermixed with the local population, so was Finland, I don’t see them suffering because they don’t practice the cultures of people in Central Asia.
I also don’t think Marcus Garvey, Stokley Carmichael, and Bobby Seal were bad people per se. Well maybe Seal, but the rest I believe were philosophically incorrect. I also do not believe integration is what hurt the lower end of the black community. I believe it was a combination of pathetically stupid government policies, radicalization of the black civil rights movement by “black power” pseudo-revolutionary wanna be communists/socialist who destroyed the basic foundation of black American culture. I also believe that the lower end lacked a culture that was conducive to educational achievement at a time when education was key to improvement in society as the economy shifted from manufacturing to service jobs which required more education.
I do not believe self segregation would have accomplished anything but make us a “target”. Ask the Jews. Integration is and always has been the best policy if the goal is to become one nation, one-nationality. If the goal is to form a nation within a nation or to be segregated, then leave and go somewhere else. We don't need people like that who are black or white. We don't need "ethnic ghetto" promotion (in the classical sense).
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A.
Posted: Tue 03 Apr 2007 21:10 Post subject:
fwsweet wrote:
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Is Sankofa complaining that some people regard education and civic duty more highly than ignorance and anti-social behavior? It seems reasonable to me.
The point I was making was he said nothing about the descriptive terms I used for the "poor" segment of Our community and immediately took issue with the way I described affluent "Black" Americans. To me, that is hypocritical.
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Strawman. The wording is clear. It means that there are many black Africans who work for the WHO, the UN in general, the IMF, and the World Bank.
I know, Frank. I was eluding to the fact that it doesn't matter if there are several "Blacks" who work for those organizations. That doesn't mean those organizations have Africa's best interests at heart. Just like the White House or all forms of American Government. There are plenty of "Blacks" who work in D.C. but that doesn't mean Our communities are being helped. I hope that clears that statement up.
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Ad hominem. Where Sankofa's head is at is irrelevant to the discussion.
I said that because of what he said and eluded to in his post. This is what he said:
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Another conspiracy theorist. You do know that there are many black Africans who work for the WHO, the UN in general, the IMF, and the World Bank right? I already know where your head it at, I saw this movie before.
That's why I put that snide comment in there because he got "uppity" with me and tried to pigeonhole me into a group...so I retaliated. Where were you when he said what he said?
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Gross strawman. This strawman is so tacky that it gets a first warning just for sheer grossness.
Yes, I agree. This was uncalled for but I didn't appreciate what he said so I took a cheap shot and went into facetious mode. I'll try not to do that in the future.
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I do not know about "green monkeys," but there is no doubt that the HIV virus, like every other disease, is produced by nature. If Sankofa wants to argue for a supernatural origin (God's wrath or some such thing), this is definitely the wrong website to do it in.
Oh, no! Don't worry, Frank. That wasn't what I was trying to convey here. I'm no "Jesus freak". No offense to the die hard Christians. I'm still under the belief that this is a man-made virus created in a lab many moons ago. I have links, but that is another argument, I'm sure, on a site full of geneticists.
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Sankofa's claiming to have been elected spokesperson for millions of people of African descent without a shred of evidence of when, where, and how he was so elected is not against site rules. But, as I tried (unsuccessfully) to point out to Caribj once, it utterly destroys any credibility that Sankofa may have had and makes him look ridiculous.
No I'm not, Frank nor am I trying to be! I'm Sankofa and nobody's judge or spokesman. I just call it how I see it. The half a quote you used in your reply is unfair and doesn't put my comment into context with that particular reply I made to DH. I'm just me.
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The desirability of reimplementing forced segregation of African Americans as advocated by extreme Afrocentrist nationalists is an interesting topic that deserves its own thread in the "Improving U.S. Society" forum.
Now where in hell did you get this idea from? Don't tell me from my posts. I was merely commenting on what I think destroyed the "Black" community...BACK IN THE DAY. Not today. We are way past the days of when that could have worked. Nowadays, it's futile to even think of doing that...on purpose. That doesn't negate the fact that there needs to be visible representation of educated "Blacks"/Latinos within the school districts that have a high minority ratio, especially in the poorer school districts. That's not racism, that's reality. They need to see more faces who look like them and who can half way relate to their situations in life. Most "White" folks from the 'burbs cannot do this for the simple fact most of them have never had to live like the kids in those school districts.
In this world we all live in, there will always be racism/colorism/classism because that is how the power structures are built and held onto by the 10% population who owns most of the world's wealth. The darker a person is...the harder the climb will be. It is what it is. We have to teach the poorer less educated folks that they have to rise above the challenges in order to succeed in life...regardless of the racism they may encounter.
Posted: Mon 23 Apr 2007 10:48 Post subject: Re: The Black Anglo Saxon
Hahhahaha Black AngloSaxon. I keep telling those idiots on the mulatto.org debate board that this is the way it is, but noooooo haha, leave it to an actual "black" man to lay it out straight. Now what?
*For all the talk of defining ourselves as African Americans, there are those of us who define ourselves based on the culture we have adopted, which is mostly European. While most of us pretend to be African American, many of us are really Black Anglo Saxons.
Damn straight, thanks for being honest and not lying. But I would say that many of your so called "black anglo saxons", are really just mulattos who identify as afroamericans but have no cultural connection to them.
Even when we were supposedly free, from the end of slavery to the end of Jim Crow and to the beginning of integration, we were still being captured many times over and lied to about freedom, while accepting the lie of acceptance.
Yes yes yes victims victims, lets all obsess over that! For gods sake give me a break man. Like Blacks and Mulattos didnt participate in slavery - pfff.
The goal all along has been to fit in, to melt with mainstream society, but many of us have done that so well that we’ve lost our own sense of history and our own sense of culture in favor of a culture that will never accept us.
Haha. If the rest of you would hurry up and do that then my life would be so much easier, for god's sake what are you waiting for! Furthermore, where does this guy get off talking about "our own sense of culture". Is he blind? Does he realize that every ethnic group has dropped its ethnicity to become white, once they were given the chance to do so? What does he think this country is all about? Pathetic.
And even some of us who claim to be Afrocentric know little of that which is intrinsically African.
Yea sure, like you're american ass knows about africa? Thats like me talking about Russian pride just because I know a little about the history.
This guy just proves everything i have been saying on the mulatto.org debate board. Blacks see themselves as antagonistic to the mainstream society, as outsiders who are oppressed and must fight for their rights. With that kind of archaic 1950s attitude Blacks will never advance. They are gonna stay in their ghettos and segregated communities, with their own society, and be bitter and left out forever!
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Standards? 
And I don't have standards? How have I degraded him? I used him as an example of an "upper"-class "Black"-American...no need to get your panties in a bunch. I see you took issue with the perceived attack on "upper"-class "Blacks" but had no problem with the derogative terms I used for the "lower"-class "Blacks in the same sentence. Hmmmm. Why is that? Yeah. I've seen 
).
You can't have it both ways. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones! Beside, his article called out everybody within the "African-American" Community as a whole...from the rich to the poor, showing no favortism as far as I could see.
So I guess it's true..."Blacks" are more sexually active and We just can't help Ourselves. 
Oh, no! Don't worry, Frank. That wasn't what I was trying to convey here. I'm no "Jesus freak". No offense to the die hard Christians. I'm still under the be