Last year, for example, Mr. Young, who first became known as a top aide to the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., resigned as a consultant to Wal-Mart after he said that Jewish, Arab and Korean store owners had “ripped off” black communities by “selling us stale bread and bad meat.” He subsequently apologized for the remarks.
GoodWorks has also generated controversy here. Two years ago, for instance, one local activist filed a complaint that, among other things, criticized Mr. Masters for his role in fund-raising for a $50 million, American-style presidential library named after Mr. Obasanjo that is being built in his hometown north of this chaotic and desperately poor city.
Also in 2005, the Nigerian leader was the host for Mr. Masters’s wedding at the official presidential banquet hall, an event that drew outcries from Mr. Obasanjo’s critics.
Several activists in Nigeria said in recent interviews that they believed that Mr. Young had decided simply to profit here from his legacy rather than use it to help a country that remains beset by problems of political corruption, crumbling infrastructure and failed school systems.
“Andrew Young has never been interested in these issues,” said Femi Falana, a human rights lawyer who is also president of the West African Bar Association. “He is just here making money.”
Mr. Young said that while some people still viewed him as an “activist trapped in the ’60s,” he had decided long ago that he could effect more change by attracting private investment to places like Nigeria that needed it.
He also said that the Obasanjo library, which is being underwritten by donations from local politicians and companies, would benefit all Nigerians by serving as a conference center.
Last year, for example, Mr. Young, who first became known as a top aide to the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., resigned as a consultant to Wal-Mart after he said that Jewish, Arab and Korean store owners had “ripped off” black communities by “selling us stale bread and bad meat.” He subsequently apologized for the remarks.
GoodWorks has also generated controversy here. Two years ago, for instance, one local activist filed a complaint that, among other things, criticized Mr. Masters for his role in fund-raising for a $50 million, American-style presidential library named after Mr. Obasanjo that is being built in his hometown north of this chaotic and desperately poor city.
Also in 2005, the Nigerian leader was the host for Mr. Masters’s wedding at the official presidential banquet hall, an event that drew outcries from Mr. Obasanjo’s critics.
Several activists in Nigeria said in recent interviews that they believed that Mr. Young had decided simply to profit here from his legacy rather than use it to help a country that remains beset by problems of political corruption, crumbling infrastructure and failed school systems.
“Andrew Young has never been interested in these issues,” said Femi Falana, a human rights lawyer who is also president of the West African Bar Association. “He is just here making money.”
Mr. Young said that while some people still viewed him as an “activist trapped in the ’60s,” he had decided long ago that he could effect more change by attracting private investment to places like Nigeria that needed it.
He also said that the Obasanjo library, which is being underwritten by donations from local politicians and companies, would benefit all Nigerians by serving as a conference center.
Uh, nowhere in this article is "race" discussed at all? How do you infer that Andrew Young is profiting off "race"? Let's be real about this: older politicians make extra money off speaking trips and business ventures. George H.W. Bush made a mint from his connection with the Moonies and the Saudis. Bill Clinton makes money off speaking engagements. Clinton also had a sleazy arrangement that got him a big donation for his presidential library from the ex-wife of an evil convicted swindler, whom Clinton, coincidentally, would give a Presidential Pardon.
There's a difference between a politicians making a buck off his past glories and using "race" to fill his pockets. Pat Buchanan uses "race" to earn extra dollars by writing vitriolic books that decry how America is being despoiled by the loss of "white" people and "their" culture, etc.
David Duke makes money off race and was happy to attend a Holocaust denial conference in Iran (!!!). Heck, the Republican Party got millions of dollars in donations because of its Southern Strategy.
Last year, for example, Mr. Young, who first became known as a top aide to the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., resigned as a consultant to Wal-Mart after he said that Jewish, Arab and Korean store owners had “ripped off” black communities by “selling us stale bread and bad meat.” He subsequently apologized for the remarks.
GoodWorks has also generated controversy here. Two years ago, for instance, one local activist filed a complaint that, among other things, criticized Mr. Masters for his role in fund-raising for a $50 million, American-style presidential library named after Mr. Obasanjo that is being built in his hometown north of this chaotic and desperately poor city.
Also in 2005, the Nigerian leader was the host for Mr. Masters’s wedding at the official presidential banquet hall, an event that drew outcries from Mr. Obasanjo’s critics.
Several activists in Nigeria said in recent interviews that they believed that Mr. Young had decided simply to profit here from his legacy rather than use it to help a country that remains beset by problems of political corruption, crumbling infrastructure and failed school systems.
“Andrew Young has never been interested in these issues,” said Femi Falana, a human rights lawyer who is also president of the West African Bar Association. “He is just here making money.”
Mr. Young said that while some people still viewed him as an “activist trapped in the ’60s,” he had decided long ago that he could effect more change by attracting private investment to places like Nigeria that needed it.
He also said that the Obasanjo library, which is being underwritten by donations from local politicians and companies, would benefit all Nigerians by serving as a conference center.
Uh, nowhere in this article is "race" discussed at all? How do you infer that Andrew Young is profiting off "race"? Let's be real about this: older politicians make extra money off speaking trips and business ventures. George H.W. Bush made a mint from his connection with the Moonies and the Saudis. Bill Clinton makes money off speaking engagements. Clinton also had a sleazy arrangement that got him a big donation for his presidential library from the ex-wife of an evil convicted swindler, whom Clinton, coincidentally, would give a Presidential Pardon.
There's a difference between a politicians making a buck off his past glories and using "race" to fill his pockets. Pat Buchanan uses "race" to earn extra dollars by writing vitriolic books that decry how America is being despoiled by the loss of "white" people and "their" culture, etc.
David Duke makes money off race and was happy to attend a Holocaust denial conference in Iran (!!!). Heck, the Republican Party got millions of dollars in donations because of its Southern Strategy.
Yes, you’re correct about race not being mentioned in the article. However, there are at least three factoids in the story that allow someone to legitimately raise the question. First, Young’s past relationship with Walmart was clearly based on his social capital as advocate for racial and economic justice. Who better to send on a PR campaign to convince the public that Walmart is the best thing to happen in the inner city than Andy Young? As one black commentator put it elsewhere, Andy cashed in his freedom movement chips for a lucrative business career. Second, and similarly, Andy was paid to represent big oil in Nigeria—another impoverished black population. Surely you don’t think Andy’s race and reputation as a racial justice champion was not a factor in big oil’s PR campaign in Nigeria. Given big oil’s unpopularity among many Nigerians, it is not a coincidence Andy was hired to put a sympathetic face on exploitation. Last but not least, by his own admission Andy acknowledges that people still see him as an “activist trapped in the 60s”, as he dismissively put it. Together, this is more than enough reason to infer race into his business dealings. Whether or not he is deliberately using race for financial benefit is open for debate.
Last year, for example, Mr. Young, who first became known as a top aide to the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., resigned as a consultant to Wal-Mart after he said that Jewish, Arab and Korean store owners had “ripped off” black communities by “selling us stale bread and bad meat.” He subsequently apologized for the remarks.
GoodWorks has also generated controversy here. Two years ago, for instance, one local activist filed a complaint that, among other things, criticized Mr. Masters for his role in fund-raising for a $50 million, American-style presidential library named after Mr. Obasanjo that is being built in his hometown north of this chaotic and desperately poor city.
Also in 2005, the Nigerian leader was the host for Mr. Masters’s wedding at the official presidential banquet hall, an event that drew outcries from Mr. Obasanjo’s critics.
Several activists in Nigeria said in recent interviews that they believed that Mr. Young had decided simply to profit here from his legacy rather than use it to help a country that remains beset by problems of political corruption, crumbling infrastructure and failed school systems.
“Andrew Young has never been interested in these issues,” said Femi Falana, a human rights lawyer who is also president of the West African Bar Association. “He is just here making money.”
Mr. Young said that while some people still viewed him as an “activist trapped in the ’60s,” he had decided long ago that he could effect more change by attracting private investment to places like Nigeria that needed it.
He also said that the Obasanjo library, which is being underwritten by donations from local politicians and companies, would benefit all Nigerians by serving as a conference center.
Uh, nowhere in this article is "race" discussed at all? How do you infer that Andrew Young is profiting off "race"? Let's be real about this: older politicians make extra money off speaking trips and business ventures. George H.W. Bush made a mint from his connection with the Moonies and the Saudis. Bill Clinton makes money off speaking engagements. Clinton also had a sleazy arrangement that got him a big donation for his presidential library from the ex-wife of an evil convicted swindler, whom Clinton, coincidentally, would give a Presidential Pardon.
There's a difference between a politicians making a buck off his past glories and using "race" to fill his pockets. Pat Buchanan uses "race" to earn extra dollars by writing vitriolic books that decry how America is being despoiled by the loss of "white" people and "their" culture, etc.
David Duke makes money off race and was happy to attend a Holocaust denial conference in Iran (!!!). Heck, the Republican Party got millions of dollars in donations because of its Southern Strategy.
Yes, you’re correct about race not being mentioned in the article. However, there are at least three factoids in the story that allow someone to legitimately raise the question. First, Young’s past relationship with Walmart was clearly based on his social capital as advocate for racial and economic justice. Who better to send on a PR campaign to convince the public that Walmart is the best thing to happen in the inner city than Andy Young? As one black commentator put it elsewhere, Andy cashed in his freedom movement chips for a lucrative business career. Second, and similarly, Andy was paid to represent big oil in Nigeria—another impoverished black population. Surely you don’t think Andy’s race and reputation as a racial justice champion was not a factor in big oil’s PR campaign in Nigeria. Given big oil’s unpopularity among many Nigerians, it is not a coincidence Andy was hired to put a sympathetic face on exploitation. Last but not least, by his own admission Andy acknowledges that people still see him as an “activist trapped in the 60s”, as he dismissively put it. Together, this is more than enough reason to infer race into his business dealings. Whether or not he is deliberately using race for financial benefit is open for debate.
Again, he is no more profiting off race than any other older politician. He is the former US Ambassador to the UN. Yeah, he's "black" and Nigerians are "black." But, Andrew Young is well connected. He's doing the same thing that all other politicians of his stature do once they reach a certain age. He's a former ambassador to the UN. As for being "black," Young is ethnically African-American but he's mixed-race. Many Africans wouldn't consider him black.
Frankly, I think you're holding Young up to a higher standard than other politicians because Young is "black." If a George H.W. Bush had been in a business deal in some European country, would he be profiting off his "race"?
Joined: 02 Feb 2007 {Posts: 255 } Location: California
Posted: Fri 20 Apr 2007 04:36 Post subject: Re: Is Andrew Young profiteering off of race . . . in Africa
Quote:
Again, he is no more profiting off race than any other older politician. He is the former US Ambassador to the UN. Yeah, he's "black" and Nigerians are "black." But, Andrew Young is well connected. He's doing the same thing that all other politicians of his stature do once they reach a certain age. He's a former ambassador to the UN. As for being "black," Young is ethnically African-American but he's mixed-race. Many Africans wouldn't consider him black.
Frankly, I think you're holding Young up to a higher standard than other politicians because Young is "black." If a George H.W. Bush had been in a business deal in some European country, would he be profiting off his "race"?--triguy
Juxtaposing Andy Young to Bush and Clinton is an apples and oranges comparison. I most certainly would hold Young to a higher standard; if he is going to use the prestige he acquired as a civil rights activist to do "good works" then I do not expect him to sell out to big oil and corrupt dictators for personal gain. Because everyone else is doing it doesn't excuse him from criticism--in fact, the criticism should be harsher!
Posted: Sat 21 Apr 2007 14:17 Post subject: Re: Is Andrew Young profiteering off of race . . . in Africa
High School Teacher wrote:
Quote:
Again, he is no more profiting off race than any other older politician. He is the former US Ambassador to the UN. Yeah, he's "black" and Nigerians are "black." But, Andrew Young is well connected. He's doing the same thing that all other politicians of his stature do once they reach a certain age. He's a former ambassador to the UN. As for being "black," Young is ethnically African-American but he's mixed-race. Many Africans wouldn't consider him black.
Frankly, I think you're holding Young up to a higher standard than other politicians because Young is "black." If a George H.W. Bush had been in a business deal in some European country, would he be profiting off his "race"?--triguy
Juxtaposing Andy Young to Bush and Clinton is an apples and oranges comparison. I most certainly would hold Young to a higher standard; if he is going to use the prestige he acquired as a civil rights activist to do "good works" then I do not expect him to sell out to big oil and corrupt dictators for personal gain. Because everyone else is doing it doesn't excuse him from criticism--in fact, the criticism should be harsher!
No, that's just plain wrong. All of them are just human beings. Holding Young up to a higher standard than former presidents of the United States is outrageous. Young was the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., a political appointment. What matters most on the international scene? The fact that Young was a former Civil Rights leader or a U.N. ambassador?
Sorry, but I find holding "black" people up to a higher standard than "white" people to be vile and an revolting continuation of the bigotry imposed on "blacks" for years in American society.
Joined: 02 Feb 2007 {Posts: 255 } Location: California
Posted: Sat 21 Apr 2007 22:11 Post subject:
Quote:
Sorry, but I find holding "black" people up to a higher standard than "white" people to be vile and an revolting continuation of the bigotry imposed on "blacks" for years in American society. --triguy
Your hyperbole requires no comment. However, you do miss the point. I hold Young to a higher standard in the areas of racial justice and human rights, not across the board of issues and concerns and not necessarily because he’s black. For example, I would not even hold Thomas Sowell or Larry Elder to Young’s standard. Andy is prostituting his racial justice credentials for white corporate pimps and corrupt black dictators. There’s absolutely nothing more vile and revolting than that, IMO.
Sorry, but I find holding "black" people up to a higher standard than "white" people to be vile and an revolting continuation of the bigotry imposed on "blacks" for years in American society. --triguy
Your hyperbole requires no comment. However, you do miss the point. I hold Young to a higher standard in the areas of racial justice and human rights, not across the board of issues and concerns and not necessarily because he’s black. For example, I would not even hold Thomas Sowell or Larry Elder to Young’s standard. Andy is prostituting his racial justice credentials for white corporate pimps and corrupt black dictators. There’s absolutely nothing more vile and revolting than that, IMO.
But as you say, we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Sorry, but I'm not using "hyperbole." I just don't feel that Young should be held to any higher standard than any other politician. Young has been a politician longer than he was a Civil Rights leader. He was UN ambassador, a congressman, and mayor of Atlanta.
And, the sad fact is that, just like George H.W. Bush, Young switched from politician to corporate shill and kiss ass to foreign leaders. Bush has the Carlyle Group, the Rev. Moon, and Saudi Arabia. Young is a politician and is acting like many other politicians have done for years.
Your stuck on Young's work from 40 years ago in the 1960s but skip over the rest of his career as if the only defining moments were those in the 1960s. Every politician has feet of clay. Putting someone up on a pedestal because he was a Civil Rights leader takes away his humanity and ability to be as flawed as any other human being. As far as I'm concerned only a divine being can be perfect, even them many of those from myth and religion had moments of bad judgment .
I don't expect anyone, especially a politician, to be perfect. Martin Luther King Jr was a great man but he cheated on his wife, a lot. Does this make him any less noble? No. Lyndon Johnson was the bravest president in terms of getting Civil Rights legislation passed and fighting against poverty. However, Johnson cheated on his wife, made money through corrupt deals, and could be especially petty and vindictive (read up on how we blackballed Earth Kitt). I abhor Johnson's misdeeds but I thank the Creator that Johnson was president.
Young never was a King or Johnson. He was one of many Civil Rights leaders. Young was, however, smarter and more determined to grow beyond being just a "Civil Rights leader." How many other Americans become the US Ambassador to the UN?
Finally, sorry, but neither Elder nor Sowell are in Young's league. Comparing either of them to Young is like comparing Ann Coulter or William F. Buckley to Ronald Reagan (the iconic figure who escaped impeachment by a hair for his role in Iran/Contra and will be remembered for ignoring the AIDS crisis and letting his wife set his appointment schedule on the advice of an astrologer).
Joined: 02 Feb 2007 {Posts: 255 } Location: California
Posted: Tue 24 Apr 2007 02:43 Post subject:
Triguy
Quote:
Your stuck on Young's work from 40 years ago in the 1960s but skip over the rest of his career as if the only defining moments were those in the 1960s.
I'm not stuck. I see his career dynamically; it is impossible to divorce his early civil rights activism from his later career in politics and diplomacy. The latter builds on the former in an almost cyclical fashion. Your insistence on compartmentalizing Young's career is what is stuck. In fact, according to Wikapedia, Good Works Int'l, Andy's lobbying firm, boasts that its principals have human rights background. That's a clear example of Andy marketing his past to harvest the future.
Quote:
. . . neither Elder nor Sowell are in Young's league
I didn't mean to suggest that they were. Imagine any black person of equivalent stature without the human rights & civil rights resume and hope you'll get my point.
Your stuck on Young's work from 40 years ago in the 1960s but skip over the rest of his career as if the only defining moments were those in the 1960s.
I'm not stuck. I see his career dynamically; it is impossible to divorce his early civil rights activism from his later career in politics and diplomacy. The latter builds on the former in an almost cyclical fashion. Your insistence on compartmentalizing Young's career is what is stuck. In fact, according to Wikapedia, Good Works Int'l, Andy's lobbying firm, boasts that its principals have human rights background. That's a clear example of Andy marketing his past to harvest the future.
Quote:
. . . neither Elder nor Sowell are in Young's league
I didn't mean to suggest that they were. Imagine any black person of equivalent stature without the human rights & civil rights resume and hope you'll get my point.
No, I don't consider Young's civil rights career as compartmentalized. It was one part of his life but not the majority. He's just another politician.
Bill Clinton started his career in college as a human rights activist by protesting against the Viet Nam War while Hillary Rodham Clinton did that and was dedicated feminist fighting for women's rights.
Should they be held to a lesser standard of scrutiny than Young?
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