Not at all. The site should always try to avoid depictions of extreme conflict or sexuality (violence or lewdness). I, personally, don’t want to be associated with either. Regular posters need to have a greater sensitivity to racial and ethnic issues and groups. Too cavalier an attitude is not a sign of confidence.
When a man is humble, he can grow. (Lao Tzu)
Neither is overreaction and ad hominem attacks in the form of name calling because they heard something they don't like.
That is school yard behavior. The fact is when discussing these issues, someone will always be offended, especially when they hear something they don't want to hear even if it is 100% correct by all measures and evalutions people have emotional responses that are often unreasonable and irrational based on projection and assumption.
Not my problem.
I do my best to follow the rules of this site and post accurate info, I back up most of what I say and when I'm wrong or uninformed I have freely admitted it. I'm not hear to guard people's egos. People say things I find objectionable all the time on this site, such as Mulatto Kid, Powell, and others.
I don't tend tend to go nuts on them. I address what I find objectionable show my point and move on, that is what pluralism is about.
DH,
its never so much what you say, but how you say it. My only contribution to this is to advise a little more sensitivity. I’m not Asian, but I was quite uneasy about the comments about Asian men, not the factual truth, but the flippant way it was said. And I'm pretty sure I wasn't projecting. It is all our problem who gets offended. Frank was just last week trying to figure out how he could lessen the offense many feel the site gives. If we offend too many, there won’t be a site. Just a little more sensitivity is all I’m advising.
LMartin nails the most important point IMO. We all can give offense with our words at times, especially those of us who use sarcasm or like (try) to insert humor in our posts. The majority of posters strike the right balance most of the time; most of us who cross a line can bring our own foot back into the "zone of acceptability" with an apology or clarification of intent.
There are some posters who seem almost physically unable to have a civil discussion. Some members of our community can't resist the lure of name-calling and strawman attacks when they encounter a point of view different from their own, no matter how well-phrased, researched or civil the post may be...the rage and derision in their rhetoric is almost palpable. I never look forward to participating in or mediating exchanges like these.
DH I would add that, from my perspective, you have to be able to take it if you are dishing it out. And when you are dishing out harshness, hyperbole, generalizations and "tough love" statements about various groups that you deem "true" then you are soliciting strong reactions from people who may identify with or feel empathy towards theses groups. To echo what Frank said, if this is the way you wish to express yourself then be prepared for the backlash because some posters are going to come back at you with their "truth" and it won't always be pretty, as we can see from the exchange with Jaime and Leo.
There are other, more empathetic or non-offensive ways to make many of the points that you wish to bring up. It's up to you in the end, but it wouldn't hurt to try a less abrasive approach and see what happens.
I have no problem with DH and I refuse to 'pile on'.
I have no problem with his posts and do not think they are 'out of line'. He dishes and he takes it. Some of you bleeding hearts just don't like it when your "fruit" is 'inspected', lol. Things got hot 1st when the illegal Mexicans topic were discussed. I agree with DH that Julio really needs to go
I did visit the Penis thread and it appears that this frequently mentioned thread was either the proverbial 'straw' for some of you, or that some of you gentlemen have issues
DH usually backs up his comments with citations (even the weak ones ), and has generally behaved on par with the ODR crew.
I do not recall him 'ad homenining' anyone (unlike you know who ), and his comments are blunt, but PROVE him wrong FIRST, then complain.
As for bringing religion up as Leo has done in this thread - stick to the point - expound as Frank has suggested in the approiate category.
This is not a site for those who are weak or easily offended.
Post your issue and keep it moving......
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 168 } Location: Mid-Atlantic States; USA
Posted: Mon 30 Apr 2007 22:52 Post subject:
Melani23 wrote:
I did visit the Penis thread and it appears that this frequently mentioned thread was either the proverbial 'straw' for some of you, or some of you gentlemen have issues
(...)
I do not recall him 'ad homenining' anyone (unlike you know who ), and his comments are blunt, but PROVE him wrong FIRST, then complain.
(...)
This is not a site for those who are weak or easily offended.
Post your issue and keep it moving......
Isn't that cute (heehee)? There it is again, and with the winks and
laughing faces. Does that make the world like you? It's the usual sexual
insult if a Non-Black American male shows any disapproval at all.
Most Americans now seem to accept almost anything so as to not be
called racist or men with sexual problems. But I think Creator has
now shown me to do like most of the rest of America and most
of the rest of the World seems to me to have learned to do on
this racial issue; to just smile, be quiet, and throw up my hands.
Maybe, most Americans know something. Since my help will be
misunderstood and not appreciated, anyway; why keep trying?
Of course I still care deeply, but Creator will never have to repeat
this lesson for me again. Like so many in America, I'm just burnt out.
My heart's full of love, and I know I'll still always care. Yet, like so
many before me, I'm worn out (hahaha). I'm giving it back to Creator.
Mother Earth will send better men or women than me, & maybe they'll be
able to do some good. My prayers willl continue to be with the people.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 168 } Location: Mid-Atlantic States; USA
Posted: Mon 30 Apr 2007 23:37 Post subject:
Dragon Horse wrote:
leosprycat wrote:
Dragon Horse wrote:
Melani just increased her "hotness" rating (well only if she is 1.
Well, you look out for her, and treat her well. She's a nice lady.
Leo Y. "Ireland" Abdulmalik
dude, I'm totally joking.
No problem (hahaha). Everything's cool. We're friends. Everything's
okay (big smile). All is well in the land (hahaha). The birds are singing,
the cows are giving milk, the grass is growing again (heehee). All is well.
I did not make a weak argument in the immigration post, everything I said was backed up and no one refuted anything, not one thing.
Oh hogwash. It was as logical as eugenics. For any type of dictatorship it is logical to exploit the rest.
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I wanted to know the truth, so I went to the World Health Organization.
Sorry by the WHO or similar organizations are full of politics so they are not always correct. I don't take their word as gospel. I would ask the facts behind them. For example, which populations were sampled. What was their height versus their other extremities, etc.
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If people are so sensitive to reality that is not my problem as I made no untrue statements on the thread, and if I did anyone was free to argue against me, but did not. That is not my fault.
No, your problem is your smart alec attitude that would be offensive to any of the people you are talking about.
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What is inaccurate about this statements. East Asians are the least likely racial group in this country to commit murder, let alone double murder, that is not my opinion that is fact. Most East Asian countries also have a very low violent crime rate as compared to Western nations, that is also not opinion.
Again, wrong. Look at crime rates in hmong and vietnamese populations. That certain east asian populations mat have more structure than others doesn't change that different populations vary. The Philippines is Asian. Go look at the moro rebels. Or look up organized crime like triads and yakuza
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I would gladly take 10 million Chinese immigrants over 10 million Mexicans and Central Americans, because based on the numbers of what Chinese do compared to Hispanics when in other nations on average I know the Chinese have a higher potential to be a net positive for society.
Which is a bunch of hogwash as all Chinese are not the same and neither are all central Americans. Furthermore, if you think Latin Americans don't assimilate, LOL 10 million Chinese will really not assimilate. Of course we know you want to be Asian, so I am sure you wouldn't mind.
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Please show me a overseas Chinese community anywhere in the world where Chinese citizens are less law abiding and less educated than the average of the host nation population.
Show me any nation bordering China where the poor can easily migrate to for better economic situation. Most Chinese have to have funds before they can migrate. A few do cross the border illegally to though. Furthermore, Crime in China is also down because punitive law is much harsher.
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I can definitely show you many Hispanic communities where this is the case, but you would be hard pressed to find a Chinese one. That is reality, not opinion.
Again, show me a first world country bordering China in such a way that migration of the poor is easy. And that the Chinese govermnet would allow such to happen.
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Am I the only one who has made statements about attractive nationalities of women on this site? I think not. I did not say anything distasteful or nasty about women, Lebanese women, or Muslim women. What is the issue?
Please show me a country where Christian Lebanese in mass have become radicalized and threatened to murder people due to religious beliefs in their host countries?
I can show you several dozen stories about Lebanese Muslims that do this in Scandanavia and Australia. So yes, I woudl prefer Lebanese CHristians to immigrate over Lebanese Muslims because the former group is more likely to be safe and integrate (as LEbanese Christians have done in America and Latin America) where Muslims have mixed results.
This is illogical why?
Again, nice try. Not all muslims are fanatics. Furthermore, the more that migrate the more exposure they have.
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You take what I said out of context, unless you look at the entire thread this snippet means little. That is my belief though.
Oh I did not take it out of context and I KNOW it is your belief.
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It is also true that South America has historically had unstable politics and economics (over most of the countries, not all) and it is also true there is a lot of colorism/racism. We have talked about this at length on this site and everyone seems to agree with that but Ovega.
Not more colorism and racism than this country though. So I guess we should remove you guys. Politics in latin America are controled by oligarchical interests that hold most of the power. Yet you would blame the ones who seek to escape that environment to a place where they can hope to be seen as equals. A century ago you would have been the Mexican clamoring for them to turn down the negros in the underground railroad trying to go south.
[/quote]1) I never said illegals were lazy. Not once.
I did call them parasites, being a parasite does not mean one does not work.[/quote]
Sorry bub. A parasite feeds of the host, it doesn't get exploited by it.
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Working 12 hours a day illegally can be seen as industrious but not in the classic sense. It is about as industrious as a strike breaker. It is not industrious and hard working to undercut citizens who expect employers to obey the law and live up to standard work conditions as established by the law.
Wrong. strike breakers only work for short periods. migrant workers will work 7 day shifts for years.
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I might agree to work for someone as a slave if they feed my family for 12 hours a day, and put two legal workers out of business, does this mean I'm industrious, that is illogical.
wrong again.Go look up the word industrious. Just because that legal worker can't compete waiting for a hand out isn't the fault of the one who is willing to fight to feed his family.
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2) Having a job does not mean one pays taxes or one does not use public schools, hospitals (without paying), welfare (because you have no documents so you are not legally married here and your baby's momma can apply for welfare), cost money to police, since many immigrant communities (as in LA have high crime rates among illegals and also in the DC metro area). These things all cost money from the tax base, and no one has shown me that most illegals pay their fair share of state and Federal taxes (although some do), this is why Arizona cut off all benefits but emergency medical care and schools to illegals. That being said, I'm sure most illegal immigrants in Arizona have "employment"...this does not mean they do not "get over" when it comes to "rent seeking" behavior from public goods.
Oh hogwash. In most places illegal immigrants share a social security nmber get their taxe taken out and never see any benefits from it. All they want is to be able to take money home.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Tue 01 May 2007 03:11 Post subject:
This is the last time I will respond to your ranting and raving. It is very childish.
Even the moderators have had no issues with what I have said and understand my reasoning.
That is all that matters, if you don't get it then it is not for you to get. That is your problem, not my problem. I have violated no rules on this site.
As far as the WHO...if you have problems with the data and question the validity of the study then you prove it wrong, why should I have to prove your argument for you. The WHO is considered a legitimate site to get various health information and is widely sited by academics and various NGOs. No one is always correct, but neither of us are medical professionals or scientists so as I said if you can determine a flaw in their data or the analysis of said data or have a more legitimate source or a counter please provide it. It really is that simple.
It seems that only two folks on this board were offended. The fact that you were offended honestly doesn't mean much to me at all. I have been offended by what others say on this site, but I do not act in what I consider a childish manner, by way of cursing and ranting on and on about what I didn't like. You have never seen me behave in this way and you will not. What you think my attitude is has no barring on the validity of what I write.
No I am correct. If you look at Interpol data from the link I provided or FBI data in this country East Asian populations (on average, as I say average, the key word) are less criminal minded. This includes organized crime.
Yes the Philippines has an insurgency group in the Muslim areas, and Japan has the Yakuza, but Japanese crime is well documented and per year their violent crime pales in comparison to the United States and is lower than most Latin American countries, also one of the lowest of any Industrialized nation. This is not opinion, I gave you the link.
Let me remind you because you seem to not understand that "average" means just that, it does not mean outlier. We also adjust crime per 10,000 people for a reason to balance it across populations.
As I said if you have problems with the FBI or the Interpol data please state specifically what is flawed or what it is not valid data. Then provide valid data. It is that simple.
As I said if I have made an incorrect statement about Asians in the United States as a group compared to Hispanics as a group or Asians in Asia please show what was incorrect. The fact their are rebels and organized crime does not mean the overall crime rate is higher or lower.
I base assimilate on measurable metrics. Hispanics in this country (and I posted a very good article on Hispanics in America) to not obtain the average education levels, home ownership, income levels, etc of the average American. Asians surpass them. So this is how I am defining assimilation into American life. Asians also out marriage at a higher rate than Hispanics, which we have talked about on this site, which I would say is another way to measure assimilation.
If you believe that is false, then show otherwise, I have shown quite a bit of evidence from studies, the article I posted was originally from Foreign Policy Magazine by Samuel Huntington. This is a legitimate source I could use as a cite in an academic paper, so if you feel it is invalid that is on you to show. As far as I am concerned what I said stands, and no one else has challenged it.
A country close to China where the poor can easily migrate? Russia. Read about them, they are quite industrious and start businesses and trade networks, most go there poor for a better opportunity.
As far as Muslims, I never said they were all fanatics, no where on this site, in fact in the Muslim thread currently going I have argued with Melanie's that all Muslims do not adhere to a strict Sharia law and many Muslims who do interpret it very differently, as High School teacher, a Muslim has agreed with.
What I did say, or what I meant, that everyone else seems to understand, but you, is that on average Muslims have a much higher chance of becoming radicalized along religious lines than Christians from the same country (Lebanon). I have a lot of evidence to back this up by various Muslim minority communities from Russia to the UK and in Canada and America that have in fact become radicalized and quite sympathetic to radical Muslims even if they themselves have no participated or committed any crimes.
That is reality.
So what I said was if given a choice I would choose the population less likely to cause future problems, which would be the Lebanese Christians.
If you can find Lebanese Christians committing and supporting terrorism in even 10 nations outside of Lebanon let me know, because I can definitely find Lebanese Muslims doing it, I have several articles on this happening in the Netherlands, Australia, and Sweden? Want to see?
Migration also has not stopped radicalism in Europe among Muslims who live there. I have plenty of articles on my site concerning this, please read them.
As far as Latin America, FW, a historian did not disagree with me on this, and this is not 140 years ago and there are no slaves here (but for sex slaves or foreign mafia related human trafficking). That has nothing to do with 2007.
Most Negros in the underground railroad did not go to Mexico anyway, they went to Canada.
If Mexico or whatever nation in Latin America is so bad an oppressive then I say that them running here (illegally) will never change the situation. If all black Americans took that attitude we would still have Jim Crow. Sometimes you have to stand up for change even if you are going to die. You have not found something you are willing to die for then you are not fit to live, that is what MLK said. Where would we be today if all our leaders ran away and most of our good people ran away to Canada and never returned?
My suggestion is if you fix your own nation you don't have to be a foreigner in someone else's nation. I know that is easier said than done, but it depends on what their country is worth to me. In any case it is not the American's people responsiblity to take care of every political or economic refugee in the world, nor is it possible. Hell, over 75% of the world might fit into that catagory we obviously don't have room or a large enough economy to support that. Also there is no international law, tradition, or treaty saying we have to do something like that.
Just because you are born does not give you a right to go whereever you want and do whatever you want. If that is the case I will be moving in with Donald Trump or Bill Gates tomarrow. Somehow I think that won't be happening.
As far as strike breakers and illegal alien workers, I don't care how long they work or what conditions that does not justify or legalize what is going on. We have laws. If you want to test that call immigration on someone you find so "hard working" and see what happens when USCIS comes, they get deported like someone who was here illegally for a day because working does not absolve a crime.
As far as immigrants paying taxes, I posted a study from the Heritage Foundation showing that most do not pay taxes.
If you believe this is invalid, please show evidence...I can wait. Sorry it does not touch my heard that some pay taxes and see no SS, that is the price of being a criminal (as in someone who violates laws, federal laws). It really is that simple.
Over a century ago there was really not social safety net, immigrants were productive or they did not eat. There was no welfare, even when my grandfather was a kid during the Great Depression, they might, might be able to get food from a charity or church. Roosevelt introduced all these programs, so comparing current illegal immigrants to legal European immigrants who came over 100 years ago is not at all equivalent.
Trust me, there were no Greeks, Eastern European Jews, Italians, etc on welfare, going to doctors and not paying, hell back then a lot of places had no public schools.
The drain on the system did not happen like it does today. In any case it really does not matter. Any state has a soverign right according to International law to control its borders and determine who it lets in its country and who it does not, for any reason.
If America wanted to deny people for entrance for any reason, if they are blond or have freckles, that might be bad, but it is our right.
Americans (by polls) pretty much agree they do not want illegal immigration, they want the borders secured, many states have had referendums that show a majority of citizens do not want to the state "taking care of" illegal immigrants.
It is pretty clear where the pulse of the average American is on this issue.
What you are saying is because someone is poor they have a right to do whatever they want if it improves their life regardless of the effect it has on any other person or any other nation.
I reject that as not only illogical but unsustanable and unsupportable.
As I said before, I am open to discuss anything, I am not open to emotional arguments, ignorant name calling, childish behavior, etc. Not interested if I want that I can go to any street corner in the hood and get better. I have presented my case, I have answered your complaints in a respectful and logical way. If you refuse to accept it if you are still offended, it is not my problem it is yours and I no longer care. This is the last time I will speak to you on this issue unless you provide more than an emotional rant as a basis for your complaint.[/b]
Last edited by Dragon Horse on Tue 01 May 2007 03:28; edited 2 times in total
This is the last time I will respond to your ranting and raving. It is very childish.
Speak for yourself Oh wannabe.
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Even the moderators have had no issues with what I have said and understand my reasoning.
Whom ever said the moderators are always right. They only enforce procedure, not content.
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That is all that matters, if you don't get it then it is not for you to get. That is your problem, not my problem. I have violated no rules on this site.
Who ever said you violated rules from this site? I just said you were a pedantic opinionated moron with a superiority chip on your shoulder.
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As far as the WHO...if you have problems with the data and question the validity of the study then you prove it wrong, why should I have to prove your argument for you. The WHO is considered a legitimate site to get various health information and is widely sited by academics and various NGOs. No one is always correct, but neither of us are medical professionals or scientists so as I said if you can determine a flaw in their data or the analysis of said data or have a more legitimate source or a counter please provide it. It really is that simple.
False. You posted a claim, not the study. That is a fallacy of arguing from Authority. You are not giving facts you are claiming authority an authoritative source without any evidence as to how they came to that conclusion.
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It seems that only two folks on this board were offended. The fact that you were offended honestly doesn't mean much to me at all. I have been offended by what others say on this site, but I do not act in what I consider a childish manner, by way of cursing and ranting on and on about what I didn't like. You have never seen me behave in this way and you will not. What you think my attitude is has no barring on the validity of what I write.
Not ranting or raving. I am calmly saying you are a pedantic idiot. No Asians or Muslims on this forum to be offended. But you have offended all the Latinos on this board except Frank.
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No I am correct. If you look at Interpol data from the link I provided or FBI data in this country East Asian populations (on average, as I say average, the key word) are less criminal minded. This includes organized crime.
Sorry, no can do. You made the claim you provide the exact source, not just some vague claim and a generic website.
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Yes the Philippines has an insurgency group in the Muslim areas, and Japan has the Yakuza, but Japanese crime is well documented and per year their violent crime pales in comparison to the United States and is lower than most Latin American countries, also one of the lowest of any Industrialized nation. This is not opinion, I gave you the link.
Sorry, bub, exact references. And the Yakuza and crime are down partly because Japan is doing well financially. Not because they are culturally less criminally minded. Crime has moved a lot more into White colar crime.
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Let me remind you because you seem to not understand that "average" means just that, it does not mean outlier. We also adjust crime per 10,000 people for a reason to balance it across populations.
Sorry but Latinos are not part of a monolithic population and Asians aren't either.
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As I said if you have problems with the FBI or the Interpol data please state specifically what is flawed or what it is not valid data. Then provide valid data. It is that simple.
Again, incorrect. reference specific facts, not some generic website.
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As I said if I have made an incorrect statement about Asians in the United States as a group compared to Hispanics as a group or Asians in Asia please show what was incorrect. The fact their are rebels and organized crime does not mean the overall crime rate is higher or lower.
I have already showed where you are inaccurate based on your statistical assumption of uniformity of culture. By your same statistics you could claim Russians are less violent if you claim that Europeans are less violent and Russia is a part of Europe.
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I base assimilate on measurable metrics. Hispanics in this country (and I posted a very good article on Hispanics in America) to not obtain the average education levels, home ownership, income levels, etc of the average American. Asians surpass them. So this is how I am defining assimilation into American life. Asians also out marriage at a higher rate than Hispanics, which we have talked about on this site, which I would say is another way to measure assimilation.
Wrong again. Asian females may integrate more, but Asian males are one of the populations with lowest integration. Hispanics have a much higher gender symmetrical assimilation pattern. Don't talk to me about income in one generation, plenty of Hispanics do just fine after one or two generations. Opportunity. The biggest problem is that many choose to work instead of further their studies because their parents sacrificed their lives to provide for them.
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If you believe that is false, then show otherwise, I have shown quite a bit of evidence from studies, the article I posted was originally from Foreign Policy Magazine by Samuel Huntington. This is a legitimate source I could use as a cite in an academic paper, so if you feel it is invalid that is on you to show. As far as I am concerned what I said stands, and no one else has challenged it.
I have already addressed all your sources.
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A country close to China where the poor can easily migrate? Russia. Read about them, they are quite industrious and start businesses and trade networks, most go there poor for a better opportunity.
Please, don't make me laugh Feel free to show me a major population and walking distances between a major Chinese population and a major Russian city with the level of comfort of the southern states
LMAO. That is one of the harshest environments out there. I doubt mass migration is occuring there, and already you see illegal alcohol there.
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As far as Muslims, I never said they were all fanatics, no where on this site, in fact in the Muslim thread currently going I have argued with Melanie's that all Muslims do not adhere to a strict Sharia law and many Muslims who do interpret it very differently, as High School teacher, a Muslim has agreed with.
What I did say, or what I meant, that everyone else seems to understand, but you, is that on average Muslims have a much higher chance of becoming radicalized along religious lines than Christians from the same country (Lebanon). I have a lot of evidence to back this up by various Muslim minority communities from Russia to the UK and in Canada and America that have in fact become radicalized and quite sympathetic to radical Muslims even if they themselves have no participated or committed any crimes.
Again, I haven't seen this evidence. All I see is that they tend to support their own people when they make it a Muslim issue in this country. Furthermore, what does that have to do with a Muslim girl coming to this country? Oh yeah, every Muslim coming here on their own is indocrinated.
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So what I said was if given a choice I would choose the population less likely to cause future problems, which would be the Lebanese Christians.
No can do. We never mentioned populations. We mentioned an individual female which you stereotyped.
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If you can find Lebanese Christians committing and supporting terrorism in even 10 nations outside of Lebanon let me know, because I can definitely find Lebanese Muslims doing it, I have several articles on this happening in the Netherlands, Australia, and Sweden? Want to see?
Strawman. I can also find plenty of communities that are not. So irrelevant. Individuals are still individuals.
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As far as Latin America, FW, a historian did not disagree with me on this, and this is not 140 years ago and there are no slaves here (but for sex slaves or foreign mafia related human trafficking). That has nothing to do with 2007.
Again, false. Frank is not the only expert on all things Latin America, sorry Frank. He has his fields of experience, but so do I. I have traveled through most of Latin America. Where have you been?
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Most Negros in the underground railroad did not go to Mexico anyway, they went to Canada.
Irrelevant. They still went to Mexico. But since you made the claim, feel free to source it.
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If Mexico or whatever nation in Latin America is so bad an oppressive then I say that them running here (illegally) will never change the situation. If all black Americans took that attitude we would still have Jim Crow. Sometimes you have to stand up for change even if you are going to die. You have not found something you are willing to die for then you are not fit to live, that is what MLK said. Where would we be today if all our leaders ran away and most of our good people ran away to Canada and never returned?
Sorry, but while American Blacks faced social opression, economically there was a much larger presence of middle class Blacks that could lead such a revolution. Feel free to look at all the leaders of the civil rights and none came from sharecroppers without education. Most revolutionary movements are started by intelligencia.
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My suggestion is if you fix your own nation you don't have to be a foreigner in someone else's nation. I know that is easier said than done, but it depends on what their country is worth to me. In any case it is not the American's people responsiblity to take care of every political or economic refugee in the world, nor is it possible. Hell, over 75% of the world might fit into that catagory we obviously don't have room or a large enough economy to support that. Also there is no international law, tradition, or treaty saying we have to do something like that.
Sure there is. Millenia of it. The Nation State with delineated borders is a newcomer. Furthermore, most people just don't have the resources to come to the US. I never said they had to make it easy for them to come, but it should still be an option that is attainable if you jump through enough hoops. Right now they aren't even offered hoops to jump though.
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Just because you are born does not give you a right to go whereever you want and do whatever you want. If that is the case I will be moving in with Donald Trump or Bill Gates tomarrow. Somehow I think that won't be happening.
Well then let the White Separatists split up the US now. They can keep all the good parts and leave the rest for us. And sorry, having an Asian girlfriend doesn't buy you a pass. Hey, why not?
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As far as strike breakers and illegal alien workers, I don't care how long they work or what conditions that does not justify or legalize what is going on. We have laws. If you want to test that call immigration on someone you find so "hard working" and see what happens when USCIS comes, they get deported like someone who was here illegally for a day because working does not absolve a crime.
Hey, Jim Crow were laws too. Back of the bus to you.
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As far as immigrants paying taxes, I posted a study from the Heritage Foundation showing that most do not pay taxes.
Sorry, but the source is questionable. I'll wait to see the references of the study itself.
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If you believe this is invalid, please show evidence...I can wait. Sorry it does not touch my heard that some pay taxes and see no SS, that is the price of being a criminal (as in someone who violates laws, federal laws). It really is that simple.
Like I said, back of the bust to you. I still have not seen evidence. A hearsay article is not evidence. If you quote a study within that articel then refrence it so we can investigate the study and it's methods.
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Over a century ago there was really not social safety net, immigrants were productive or they did not eat. There was no welfare, even when my grandfather was a kid during the Great Depression, they might, might be able to get food from a charity or church. Roosevelt introduced all these programs, so comparing current illegal immigrants to legal European immigrants who came over 100 years ago is not at all equivalent.
Yes, Roosevelt introduced a lot. So did civil rights for Blacks. Are you saying other groups should be discriminated?
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Trust me, there were no Greeks, Eastern European Jews, Italians, etc on welfare, going to doctors and not paying, hell back then a lot of places had no public schools.
And now there are. They just call themselves WHite instead. Your point?
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The drain on the system did not happen like it does today. In any case it really does not matter. Any state has a soverign right according to International law to control its borders and determine who it lets in its country and who it does not, for any reason.
Sorry bub. International law is based on custom. I can cite millenias of custom where people migrated back and forth among nation states. If it is such a drain on the system, make them legal and give them social security numbers. Then make the penalty of working without one much higher, because they have that option to work legally. You will see much more revenue.
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If America wanted to deny people for entrance for any reason, if they are blond or have freckles, that might be bad, but it is our right.
Yep, as was the right to enslave your ancestors and mine. The right to Jim Crow. Gotcha.
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Americans (by polls) pretty much agree they do not want illegal immigration, they want the borders secured, many states have had referendums that show a majority of citizens do not want to the state "taking care of" illegal immigrants.
So give poor people an option to migrate while paying to migrate legally. Then they won't have as much of a problem. Make immigrants pay an immigrant tax. Only if they become nationals can they remove it.
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It is pretty clear where the pulse of the average American is on this issue.
As it was for hundreds of years of slavery, manifest destiny, and a history of destroying entire cultures. Your point?
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What you are saying is because someone is poor they have a right to do whatever they want if it improves their life regardless of the effect it has on any other person or any other nation.
Wrong, I am saying that if they are not doing anything directly to another person to harm them they have a right to fair competition. People in the US do it all the time. People's actions cost others their job and income all the time. It is still legal.
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I reject that as not only illogical but unsustanable and unsupportable.
Yes, we know you would. Hey Jim Crow was sustainable as well. And for Whites it was quite logical. Or more like rationalized, just like you are rationalizing now.
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As I said before, I am open to discuss anything, I am not open to emotional arguments, ignorant name calling, childish behavior, etc. Not interested if I want that I can go to any street corner in the hood and get better. I have presented my case, I have answered your complaints in a respectful and logical way. If you refuse to accept it if you are still offended, it is not my problem it is yours and I no longer care. This is the last time I will speak to you on this issue unless you provide more than an emotional rant as a basis for your complaint.
Yes, your post was much better albeit still pedantic. It still doesn't excuse your demeaning posts in the past. By the way, the overweight lady you posted? Why is it that tons of Black and White Obese American women are dating short little Mexican natives. They descend from Asians. They are probably proportional to them. But they still get the big women. And satisfy them quite well.
Have you ever thought it might be cultural?
Or what about height? Have they estimated that penis size is also related to overall stature. What is the overall height difference between those same populations being compared? What about the rarer tall populations of Chinese males. Have they tested them? A lot of questions not answered, yet I know you like taking that claim with a lot of braggadocio. Tell me, Do Jarawa and Pygmies also score high on the penis size tests? Or is it just coincidence that European and African descent people overall have taller populations? Again, lots of factors not explained.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Tue 01 May 2007 20:51 Post subject:
(sigh)...still irration, still in denial, still uneducated, still not worth dealing with. Oh BTW I didn't read half of that crap, I stopped about 1/4 of the way through it when you started saying childish things like "pedantic idiot".
Last edited by Dragon Horse on Tue 01 May 2007 21:15; edited 1 time in total
(sigh)...still irration, still in denial, still uneducated, still not worth dealing with. Oh BTW I didn't read half of that crap, I stopped about 1/4 of the way through it when you started saying childish things like "pedantic idiot".
You really must enjoy living up to the stereotypes.
Damn, Jaime! When you go out, you sure go out with a bang. You were already under first warning for ad hominem in my message http://backintyme.com/odr/viewtopic.php?p=22894#22894. Salsassin is hereby suspended until midnight, 5/14/2007.
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Some of you 
just don't like it when your "fruit" is 'inspected', lol. Things got hot 1st when the illegal Mexicans topic were discussed. I agree with DH that Julio really needs to go 
), and has generally behaved on par with the ODR crew.
), and his comments are blunt, but PROVE him wrong FIRST, then complain. 
