Well here is a few pics of Half Mexican half African-Americans
Earl Watson
Quote:
The Nuggets may have two players on Mexico's national team this summer. Earl Watson, whose mother is Mexican, has been invited to participate. Eduardo Najera, a former Cornerstone star, already is a member.
Mark Aguirre's father was born in Mexico, while his mother was born in the United States. Very little is advertised about his Mexican roots even though his last name is a Latino last name.His father resides in Chicago.
Now you see what a 50% black- Mexicam nix looks like.
I did not see any individuals in Veracruz who looked like these 2 NBA players. So the myth of the average Veracruzano being 40% is incorrect.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Wed 09 May 2007 03:51 Post subject:
looks like we got another, can someone explain population genetics to him and teach him the difference between ancestrial origin and current phenotype.
n the years to come, slavery would become a critical component of the colonial economy with approximately 2,000 slaves arriving each year 1580-1650; it is estimated that a total of 200,000 Africans were brought to Mexico during the colonial period.
There are no Mexicans that look like this? If you say so, I lived in Houston, TX and about every 3rd Mexican looks like this, short, dark, stalky, curly hair...hmmm
Most of those blacks (who were more numerous than pure blood Spaniards in Mexico):
Quote:
The point that must be made here is the fact that the black population in the early colony was by far larger than that of the Spanish. In 1570 we see that the black population is about 3 times that of the Spanish. In 1646, it is about 2.5 times as large, and in 1742, blacks still outnumber the Spanish. It is not until 1810 that Spaniards are more numerous.
Many mixed with Amerindians. Overtime many people do not look black at all, but if you test their DNA they still carry genetic markers that could have only come from Africa, on both their Y Chromosone (father's side) and MtDNA (mother's side).
For example...
These white British women have DNA genetic markers from a direct Native American ancestory that was likely brought to the UK as a slave.
They obviously look as white as anyone else in the UK...that does not change all their genes though.
If you can't understand something so basic, then you are in denial.
also:
Quote:
Wednesday, 18 December, 2002, 01:20 GMT
Colour 'no guide to ancestry'
Rio carnival, AP
Brazil's population derives from diverse ethnic groups
Physical characteristics associated with race - such as skin or hair colour - do not necessarily reflect a person's genetic ancestry, a new study suggests.
Our study makes clear the hazards of equating colour or race with geographical ancestry
A group of scientists - writing in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences - have found that people who appear white may genetically be mainly African, while people who look black may genetically be European or Amerindian.
The scientists, from the University of Minas Gerais in Brazil and the University of Porto in Portugal, said their data indicated that, in Brazil, colour was a weak predictor of African ancestry.
"There is wide agreement among anthropologists and human geneticists that, from a biological standpoint, human races do not exist," said one of the researchers, Sergio Pena.
"Yet races do exist as social constructs," Dr Pena and his colleagues said.
Colour roots
The research took place in Brazil and on the island of Sao Tome, a former Portuguese colony off the African coast.
Races do exist as social constructs
Brazil's population comes from three separate ethnic groups: the original Amerindians, Europeans, and Africans.
These groups have inter-married and inter-bred, yet some Brazilians are popularly regarded as white, others as black.
The researchers found 10 gene variations that could reliably tell apart - genetically - 20 men from northern Portugal and 20 men from Sao Tome.
But the genetic differences did not have anything to do with physical characteristics such as skin or hair colour, the researchers found.
Poor guide
They next tested two groups - 173 Brazilians "classified" as white, black, or intermediate based on arm skin colour, hair colour, and nose and lip shape, and 200 men living in major metropolitan areas who classified themselves as white.
The results threw up some surprises: maternal DNA suggested that even the "white" people had about 33% of genes that were of Amerindian ancestry and 28% African - indicating that European men often fathered children with black and Indian women.
"It is interesting to note that the group of individuals classified as blacks had a very high proportion of non-African ancestry (48%)," they wrote.
"Our study makes clear the hazards of equating colour or race with geographical ancestry and using interchangeably terms such as white, Caucasian and European on one hand, and black, Negro or African on the other, as is often done in scientific and medical literature," the scientists' report said.
I can produce more scientific or academic articles, but this pretty much says it all in plain English, if you can't understand this or refuse to accept it I hope you are banned because you are obviously a troll.
n the years to come, slavery would become a critical component of the colonial economy with approximately 2,000 slaves arriving each year 1580-1650; it is estimated that a total of 200,000 Africans were brought to Mexico during the colonial period.
Where did they go?
Mexicans with African ancestory:
Emiliano Zapata
There are no Mexicans that look like this? If you say so, I lived in Houston, TX and about every 3rd Mexican looks like this, short, dark, stalky, curly hair...hmmm
These people also claim black ancestory.
The thing is this, and it is very simple.
Those people were listed as Indiginas,not Afro-Mexican. Trying to cheat huh? And Emiliano Zapata was not part black either.And what do Brazileans have to do with Mexicans?
The Whole Gang - I took this picture in the Costa Chica village of La Petaca in 1992. This village is not an Afro-Mexican community, but is made up mainly of Amuzgos (a indigenous ethnic group), and mestizos. I visited this tiny town of about 50 houses in 1997, and was pleased to find the 8 x 10 duplicate of this very photograph that I gave them years ago proudly displayed on the wall. The economic activity of this village revolves around the immense mango grove adjacent to it, and nearly everyone in town depends on it.
Quote:
The point that must be made here is the fact that the black population in the early colony was by far larger than that of the Spanish. In 1570 we see that the black population is about 3 times that of the Spanish. In 1646, it is about 2.5 times as large, and in 1742, blacks still outnumber the Spanish. It is not until 1810 that Spaniards are more numerous.
Haha!! You are going to believe that? Then why is it that the average Mexican is atleast 50% Spanish, and if lucky 1% Black? Haha
Biased studies but that should give you a clue. Spanish decendants were always larger in Mexico than blacks.
Curly hair among Mexicans is not to common.
Dragon horse, you said that many mixed with Amerindians. But according to a study LOLOLOL, 40% of Veracruzanos are 40% black. A 40% black person looks no different than those Blaxican NBA players i posted. And i did not see any Veracruzanos who looked like those NBA Blaxican players.
So those studies were obviously done in Afro-Mexican towns in Veracruz not on the whole Veracruzano population.
Afro-Mexican from Veracruz, Tomas Campos born in Tuxpan,Veracruz.
Garciaparra posted a half-dozen consecutive messages within the space of half an hour. I have taken the liberty of combining them all into one message for clarity. He was previously warned against attempting to flood the board with irrelevant messages. He is now warned against attempting to flood the board with relevant messages either. In the future, he should think through what he wants to say before posting.
Garciaparra wrote:
Emiliano Zapata was not part black either.
Biased studies but that should give you a clue.
Spanish decendants were always larger in Mexico than blacks.
Garcia parra has 24 hours to produce credible, preferably peer-reviewed, sources for all three of his factual claims: (1) That Emiliano Zapata was not part black, (2) That the genetic studies cited are biased, and (3) That Spaniards always outnumbered Africans in colonial Mexico. Failing that, he will be suspended for one month.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Wed 09 May 2007 11:14 Post subject:
Quote:
40% of Veracruzanos are 40% black. A 40% black person looks no different than those Blaxican NBA players i posted. And i did not see any Veracruzanos who looked like those NBA Blaxican players.
You really don't understand population genetics.
I would recommend a book to explain this, so that you may educate yourself:
The study above is not saying these people are 40% black.
It is saying that 40% of their direct ancestors came from Africa.
That is very different.
As I posted above, there rae people in the UK and Brazil who have a direct ancestor from Africa or Native American population but are totally white in phenotype.
It is quite simple.
If one black man, in 1800, moves to Veracruz, marries a local indigenous woman. His male children are 1/2 black African, however their Y Chromosone shows them to be 100% African, but that chromosone only comes from the father. You get one Y and one X.
The other chromosones are paird, meaning you get one from your father and one from your mother.
So all the male decendants of this one black male have a Y Chromosone that denotes them as having a male ancestor from Africa, even if they only had one in 1800.
this is what the study is showing. 40% of the people in veracruz have a direct black ancestor.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Wed 09 May 2007 11:18 Post subject:
Also parra, unless you have examined the study and reviewed the methodology you have no reason to claim bias.
You can not claim bias basedon what you observed with your eyes, that is a bias sample that has nothing to do with ancestory of the individual, as was spoken to in the BBC article on Brazil and the women in the UK.
40% of Veracruzanos are 40% black. A 40% black person looks no different than those Blaxican NBA players i posted. And i did not see any Veracruzanos who looked like those NBA Blaxican players.
You really don't understand population genetics.
Dragon Horse, methinks he's willfully obtuse on this subject. He simply doesn't want to believe that there are Mexicans who look like other Mexicans but have significant African ancestry. He continues to confuse African admixture with being "Blaxican" because he wants to. If he continues to confuse things after you and others explain what is being discussed both on this board and the study he cites, then there's no hope for him.
black ancestry is quite high on the coasts, ranging from 0.127 to 0.405 on the east coast,
That means that on the east coast of Mexico, the population avarages 12.7% to 40.5% african ancestry. In the abstract at least it did not say where.
And to answer you question, maybe like this:
or maybe like this
or this
Who knows. They are all from Veracruz. My guess is you would be shocked by the potential phenotypes on someone who has a most likely estimate of 40% sub-saharan ancestry based on autosomal testing.
Garciaparra posted a half-dozen consecutive messages within the space of half an hour. I have taken the liberty of combining them all into one message for clarity. He was previously warned against attempting to flood the board with irrelevant messages. He is now warned against attempting to flood the board with relevant messages either. In the future, he should think through what he wants to say before posting.
Garciaparra wrote:
Emiliano Zapata was not part black either.
Biased studies but that should give you a clue.
Spanish decendants were always larger in Mexico than blacks.
Garcia parra has 24 hours to produce credible, preferably peer-reviewed, sources for all three of his factual claims: (1) That Emiliano Zapata was not part black, (2) That the genetic studies cited are biased, and (3) That Spaniards always outnumbered Africans in colonial Mexico. Failing that, he will be suspended for one month.
Can you explain why Spanish ancestry among Mexicans is 19 times more than African ancestry?
Quote:
MORELOS: THE LAND OF ZAPATA, 2
By John P. Schmal
Continued from History of Morelos
Emiliano Zapata was born on August 8, 1879 in the village of Anenecuilco, Morelos as the ninth of ten children of Gabriel Zapata and Cleofas Salazar, both mestizos of campesino (peasant) background. Professor Brunk writes that "Zapata enjoyed the work of a campesino, especially when it involved animals.
40% of Veracruzanos are 40% black. A 40% black person looks no different than those Blaxican NBA players i posted. And i did not see any Veracruzanos who looked like those NBA Blaxican players.
You really don't understand population genetics.
Dragon Horse, methinks he's willfully obtuse on this subject. He simply doesn't want to believe that there are Mexicans who look like other Mexicans but have significant African ancestry. He continues to confuse African admixture with being "Blaxican" because he wants to. If he continues to confuse things after you and others explain what is being discussed both on this board and the study he cites, then there's no hope for him.
A Mexican with significant black ancestry (more than 15%) just will not look tipical Mexican. No way.
40% of Veracruzanos are 40% black. A 40% black person looks no different than those Blaxican NBA players i posted. And i did not see any Veracruzanos who looked like those NBA Blaxican players.
You really don't understand population genetics.
Dragon Horse, methinks he's willfully obtuse on this subject. He simply doesn't want to believe that there are Mexicans who look like other Mexicans but have significant African ancestry. He continues to confuse African admixture with being "Blaxican" because he wants to. If he continues to confuse things after you and others explain what is being discussed both on this board and the study he cites, then there's no hope for him.
A Mexican with significant black ancestry (more than 15%) just will not look tipical Mexican. No way.
Garciaparra posted a half-dozen consecutive messages within the space of half an hour. I have taken the liberty of combining them all into one message for clarity. He was previously warned against attempting to flood the board with irrelevant messages. He is now warned against attempting to flood the board with relevant messages either. In the future, he should think through what he wants to say before posting.
Garciaparra wrote:
Emiliano Zapata was not part black either.
Biased studies but that should give you a clue.
Spanish decendants were always larger in Mexico than blacks.
Garcia parra has 24 hours to produce credible, preferably peer-reviewed, sources for all three of his factual claims: (1) That Emiliano Zapata was not part black, (2) That the genetic studies cited are biased, and (3) That Spaniards always outnumbered Africans in colonial Mexico. Failing that, he will be suspended for one month.
Can you explain why Spanish ancestry among Mexicans is 19 times more than African ancestry?
Quote:
MORELOS: THE LAND OF ZAPATA, 2
By John P. Schmal
Continued from History of Morelos
Emiliano Zapata was born on August 8, 1879 in the village of Anenecuilco, Morelos as the ninth of ten children of Gabriel Zapata and Cleofas Salazar, both mestizos of campesino (peasant) background. Professor Brunk writes that "Zapata enjoyed the work of a campesino, especially when it involved animals.
Emiliano Zapata was born in San Miguel Anencuilco, a village in the state of Morelos, on August 8, 1879. He was the son of a strong farmer who trained and sold horses. Zapata spoke Náhuatl, his local indigenous language
So Emiliano Zapata spoke Nahuatl language of the Aztecas. It's obvious that he came from Nahuatl villages.
Quote:
El 8 de Agosto de 1879 nació el General Emiliano Zapata y una ceremonia indígena se realizará la noche anterior en su natal Anenecuilco. Emiliano Zapata es un héroe del pueblo Mexicano
Translation. On August the 8th of 1879,The General Emiliano Zapata was born,and a day earlier an Indigena ceremony was performed in his home town of Anenecuilico. Emiliano Zapata is a hero to the Mexican country.
black ancestry is quite high on the coasts, ranging from 0.127 to 0.405 on the east coast,
That means that on the east coast of Mexico, the population avarages 12.7% to 40.5% african ancestry. In the abstract at least it did not say where.
And to answer you question, maybe like this:
or maybe like this
or this
Who knows. They are all from Veracruz. My guess is you would be shocked by the potential phenotypes on someone who has a most likely estimate of 40% sub-saharan ancestry based on autosomal testing.
Show some proof that these 3 Mexicans from Veracruz are part black.
El 8 de Agosto de 1879 nació el General Emiliano Zapata y una ceremonia indígena se realizará la noche anterior en su natal Anenecuilco. Emiliano Zapata es un héroe del pueblo Mexicano
Translation. On August the 8th of 1879,The General Emiliano Zapata was born,and a day earlier an Indigena ceremony was performed in his home town of Anenecuilico. Emiliano Zapata is a hero to the Mexican country.
Nonresponsive. There is nothing in that link that addresses whether Zapata had subsaharan ancestry.
El 8 de Agosto de 1879 nació el General Emiliano Zapata y una ceremonia indígena se realizará la noche anterior en su natal Anenecuilco. Emiliano Zapata es un héroe del pueblo Mexicano
Translation. On August the 8th of 1879,The General Emiliano Zapata was born,and a day earlier an Indigena ceremony was performed in his home town of Anenecuilico. Emiliano Zapata is a hero to the Mexican country.
Nonresponsive. There is nothing in that link that addresses whether Zapata had subsaharan ancestry.
You ignored the other links were it says that he was indigena and spoke Nauhtl? hmm..
Since Emiliano Zapata is Mexican. It is not me who has to prove if he has African ancestry or not. The people who that claim Emiliano Zapata was partly black have no proof at all. It is just hear say. No DNA test were taken from him to prove he had African ancestry.
Emiliano Zapata grew up in a Indigena village and Spoke Nahuatl.
So he was an Indigena .His Indigena ancestry that goes back thousands of years.
Demand proof from people who claim that Emiliano Zapata was partly black. Like DNA test.
Ovenga left, i probably will to, since you only demand proof from me,when it's obvious i show more than proof.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Thu 10 May 2007 01:51 Post subject:
Garciaparra wrote:
fwsweet wrote:
Garciaparra wrote:
El 8 de Agosto de 1879 nació el General Emiliano Zapata y una ceremonia indígena se realizará la noche anterior en su natal Anenecuilco. Emiliano Zapata es un héroe del pueblo Mexicano
Translation. On August the 8th of 1879,The General Emiliano Zapata was born,and a day earlier an Indigena ceremony was performed in his home town of Anenecuilico. Emiliano Zapata is a hero to the Mexican country.
Nonresponsive. There is nothing in that link that addresses whether Zapata had subsaharan ancestry.
You ignored the other links were it says that he was indigena and spoke Nauhtl? hmm..
Since Emiliano Zapata is Mexican. It is not me who has to prove if he has African ancestry or not. The people who that claim Emiliano Zapata was partly black have no proof at all. It is just hear say. No DNA test were taken from him to prove he had African ancestry.
Emiliano Zapata grew up in a Indigena village and Spoke Nahuatl.
So he was an Indigena .His Indigena ancestry that goes back thousands of years.
Demand proof from people who claim that Emiliano Zapata was partly black. Like DNA test.
Ovenga left, i probably will to, since you only demand proof from me,when it's obvious i show more than proof.
Being amerindian has nothing to do with anything. Many former black slaves in Mexico intermixed with indigenous populations in Southern Mexico.
We have post on this site about that. So the fact he could speak a native language and grew up in a mostly native village does not prove any ancestory.
I have a great grandmother who was half Native who grew up on a reservation in North Carolina. Her father was a runaway slave who ended up there and married a local woman. It was not that unusual in parts of the United States, and by the genetic studies we have seen on this site not strange in Mexico either.
Joined: 02 May 2006 {Posts: 443 } Location: Île-de-France
Posted: Thu 10 May 2007 02:18 Post subject:
The last guy, Veracruzano Armando Chacha, would certainly tell you he is of partial African descent.
Quote:
MATAMBA: EXPRESIÓN DE LA ESCLAVITUD, LA LIBERTAD, EL DESEO, LA IMAGINACIÓN Y LOS SUEÑOS
Armando Chacha se refiere a las ideas, conceptos y sentimientos que dieron origen a su nueva producción Matamba, que completa una tercia en su discografía junto con Biografía Rota (1985) y Litorales (1991). El disco será presentado la noche de este viernes 30 de abril en el Museo Nacional de Culturas Populares de Conaculta, con la participación de los poetas Eduardo Langagne y Eudoro Fonseca y del productor de Discos Pentagrama, Modesto López.
Para el compositor, este disco representa la posibilidad de decirle al mundo que somos un país culturalmente rico, que tiene como una de sus vertientes la influencia de la cultura negra, la cual ha estado y está presente no sólo en la vida de los pueblos del Golfo de México y del Pacífico, sino en todo nuestro mestizaje cultural.
Por eso se llama Matamba, una palabra de origen africano que da nombre a un pueblo del centro de Veracruz, situado a orillas del río Jamapa, cercano al Puerto: "Me platicó la gente de ahí que habían encontrado grilletes enterrados. Y no son más que una expresión, un residuo, de esa historia tan dolorosa que vivió el negro en México, y en toda América Latina, en la esclavitud.
"Retomo ese nombre porque simboliza mucho: Al mismo tiempo que esos grilletes representan el esclavismo, son la manifestación del coraje y la liberación del negro. Porque los negros cimarrones preferían huir al monte y sobrevivir como pudieran, antes que vivir en la barraca esclavizados y atados al grillete".
De acuerdo con Chacha, el disco no es una expresión del africanismo, porque el negro" —como se dice coloquialmente—, perdió aquí. A diferencia de países como Cuba, no creó sistemas culturales, se diluyó. Pero de todas formas está ahí; con Matamba quiero decirle a la gente: existió y existe, es parte de nuestro mestizaje".
[Translation: According to Chacha, the album is not an expresion of africanism, because as is said colloquially, the black man lost here. Unlike countries like Cuba, he did not create cultural systems, rather, he [his blood] was diluted. But regardless, he is there; with "Mataba" I want to tell people: he existed and he exists, he is part of our mixture." ]
Is there a reason having african admixture bothers you so much? Here is the link.
I think its interesting about how mexican 40% black people would look like,i also see people who are from spanish countrys and some look white,black,spanish, i can tell that the black and spanish looking ones are mixed but i don`t know about the white people,i think that america or where ever would acknowledge them as spanish/latino people even though they might have a black background,but because i have family from the caribbian who aren`t spanish i think they would see me as a black person even though i`m mixed. So i want to know is the one drop rule not regarded towards spanish people because spanish is seen as a race no matter what race orgin the person is from? i know my question sounds crazy but its what i always been thinking of.
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