Posted: Sun 10 Jun 2007 19:02 Post subject: Creoles & Cajuns: At the Octoroon Balls by Wynton Marsalis
Creoles & Cajuns: The Cultures and it's people
(Creoles, Cajuns, And The One Drop Blood Rule)
(did having few blacks among the Cajuns help keep them safe from the curse of the one drop blood rule, and the presence of many blacks and mixed folks with some visible black ancestry help lower, and destroy the creole ethnic group’s status as an independent ethnicity?)
This is my opinion and that is Cajuns don't have many or any large number of blacks in their group, most if not 90% of Cajuns look white and are white. Creoles suffered because too many blacks of all various skin complexions started calling themselves creoles. This allowed the one drop blood rule to come into play and any one with one drop of black blood was labeled black. Now the creoles of color that had among theme blacks of dark skin, caramel skin, light skin etc fell under the one drop rule and ended up being labeled black, this labeling them black started the destruction of the creole culture and ethnicity. It istrue too that some white creoles and white french married black women and had children by them, and this helped create the creole of color who had black and other non white ancestry, but there was no one drop blood rule at this time either. The one drop blood rule came years later.
Cajuns are still around culturally for a few reasons; one of the major reasons is that they don’t have large numbers of people among them who show visible signs of black ancestry. Most Cajuns are white and some are octoroons and quadroons, therefore, they look more white than non-white or black. This being white and predominantly white looking octoroons and quadroons, and without having many blacks claiming Cajun is -- the major reason that protected Cajun culture from being labeled black. Cajuns did not fall under the one drop blood rule because they are made up of mainly and mostly white people. Mestizo Latinos (Hispanic mestizos) also have a lot of white ancestry and a little black ancestry but they are predominantly white and native Indian mixed.
Whites accept Cajuns and mestizo latinos because they have a lot of visible white ancestry and only a very small percentage of Cajuns and mestizo latinos show black ancestry. So, whites accept Cajuns because they are made up of mostly white people. Creoles came in two groups white creoles and creoles of color, creoles of color had blacks and mixed people. White creoles were white and some were octoroons and quadroons. Allowing blacks and unfortunately even mixed people who have some black ancestry top inter marry or join your ethnic culture will cause your ethnic group and culture to come under the one drop blood rule. Then blacks will claim your ethnic groups as theirs (blacks), and white Americans will agree with blacks that you are now a sub sect (lower group) of the black race. The other non white ethnic groups in America will also, agree -- that your ethnic group is now a part of the black race, and your ethnic group will be subjugated to all of the mistreatment that black Americans go through.
So the question is, were the Cajuns and white creoles in the past justified in trying to semi exclude blacks from being apart of their groups -- because they feared that blacks would bring in the one drop blood rule curse? Also, dear reader do you feel that many whites and non whites fear having their sons and daughters marry blacks because they fear that their grandchildren will show signs of visible black ancestry, and this visible black ancestry will cause their grand children to fall under the curse of the one drop blood rule?
This is just food for intellectual thoughts
Last edited by MP mulattoprince on Wed 10 Oct 2007 09:38; edited 1 time in total
From what I understand, Creole in itself isn't a racial designation especially soley for those of mixed African-French blood or Mulattoes. Creole is a probably predominately in reference to mixture of cultures, so the Negre' of New Orleans Haiti or the Dominican Republic are Creole.
Creole is also term used for those of French/Spaniard mixture as wel as the offspring of the French born outside of France in the Carribbean.
Yes that is true, but I am talking about the creoles of New orleans, la and how their culture ended up being a victim of the one drop blood rule. The one drop blood rule kills cultures, and people should be careful about letting their culture get labeled black in America because it can fall into the one drop blood rule, and become a sub sect of black america. I do think this is harder and more difficult to happen in today's time. Cauuns survive the one drop blood rule and many of the white creole of New orleans no longer claim creole they just say they are white, because of the one drop blood rule that made even white creoles look as though they were possibly light skin blacks passing for white.
From what I understand, Creole in itself isn't a racial designation especially soley for those of mixed African-French blood or Mulattoes. Creole is a probably predominately in reference to mixture of cultures, so the Negre' of New Orleans Haiti or the Dominican Republic are Creole.
Creole is also term used for those of French/Spaniard mixture as wel as the offspring of the French born outside of France in the Carribbean.
it means born/bred locally. But you don't use it for native indigenous people/products. You know they are local. It is used to differentiate those that are not of local ancestry/origin but whose source/culture/identity/birthplace is.
The one drop blood rule kills cultures, and people should be careful about letting their culture get labeled black in America because it can fall into the one drop blood rule, and become a sub sect of black america. I do think this is harder and more difficult to happen in today's time.
One of the most puzzling questions about cultural assimilation into the dichotomous U.S. world-view is why some groups succumb almost immediately upon arrival (BWI's), some survive as a distinct mutiracial community for generations before finally coming unglued and splitting into White and Black branches (Cape Verdeans, Ramapo Mountain people), and still other demand and receive consideration as a separate group, exempt from the ODR or even from the color line itself (Puerto Ricans, Melungeons) and show no sign of being torn apart. As a Puerto Rican, I suppose that this defiance is what so attracts me to the Melungeons as kindred folk under pressure to split. As a scholar, I would give much to learn what makes some groups cave in quickly, others slowly, and others not at all.
The one drop blood rule kills cultures, and people should be careful about letting their culture get labeled black in America because it can fall into the one drop blood rule, and become a sub sect of black america. I do think this is harder and more difficult to happen in today's time.
One of the most puzzling questions about cultural assimilation into the dichotomous U.S. world-view is why some groups succumb almost immediately upon arrival (BWI's), some survive as a distinct mutiracial community for generations before finally coming unglued and splitting into White and Black branches (Cape Verdeans, Ramapo Mountain people), and still other demand and receive consideration as a separate group, exempt from the ODR or even from the color line itself (Puerto Ricans, Melungeons) and show no sign of being torn apart. As a Puerto Rican, I suppose that this defiance is what so attracts me to the Melungeons as kindred folk under pressure to split. As a scholar, I would give much to learn what makes some groups cave in quickly, others slowly, and others not at all.
English speaking Caribbean people, in many instances, already have a strong Pan Africanist , Black power identity coming here, so even though they might be mixed.
Yes that is true, but I am talking about the creoles of New orleans, la and how their culture ended up being a victim of the one drop blood rule. The one drop blood rule kills cultures, and people should be careful about letting their culture get labeled black in America because it can fall into the one drop blood rule, and become a sub sect of black america. I do think this is harder and more difficult to happen in today's time. Cauuns survive the one drop blood rule and many of the white creole of New orleans no longer claim creole they just say they are white, because of the one drop blood rule that made even white creoles look as though they were possibly light skin blacks passing for white.
Creole culture is still alive in New Orleans, my post was directed there as well. Creoles aren't specifically people who are Mulatto. If I'm not mistaken Creoles were first those of Spaniard&French mixture in New Orleans as well as the French U.S. born people. the Mulatto-Creoles ranged from Sacatras to Sang Mele's.
The entertainer Beyonce is of acknowledge Creole heritage, her mother is Creole. There whole clothing line is centered around New Orleans creole culture.
Yes I am very aware of the history of the creoles, I know that they were originally of white French and Spaniards settlers who came to New Orleans and the western world. If I had added the history of the creoles and Cajuns if would have took up a lot of time and made the post too long and boring. My point is that Creole was similar to some degree to what Latinos are today, and that is they were considered a separate ethnic group and culture like Latinos. Until the one drop blood rule came into play.
My emphasis is not on the origins of creole or Cajun cultures and ethnicities, but on why the Cajuns remain a unique predominately white ethnic group and culture and why creole culture and ethnicity has become just a semi insignificant sub sect group of the black American race.
Gemini072 said: The entertainer Beyonce is of acknowledge Creole heritage, her mother is Creole. There whole clothing line is centered around New Orleans creole culture.
Mulattoprince: If you look at Beyonce and observe her life style, behavior, and culture you will there is nothing unique her culture is definitely black American culture. This verifies what I say that creole of color is nothing but a sub sect of black American culture. So far all of the blacks who claim creole that I have met can’t speak French creole and show nothing culturally of creole heritage. They claim creole but it comes across as status only, meaning in certain parts of new Orleans saying that you are creole is impressive. But culturally all you see from these blacks daily is black American culture, when you see Puerto-Ricans you see culturally they speak Spanish, music, religion, foods, politics, businesses with signs in Spanish, codes of conduct that are acceptable to fellow Puerto Ricans, etc with these blacks who claim creole you meet any where in America on average you see no constant creole culture. If you do it is very little. Most of it it is left over from the creoles who lived 100 years or more ago.
Creole is nothing more now than a sub group of the black American race, and this tragic
I would give much to learn what makes some groups cave in quickly, others slowly, and others not at all.
I know the answer to this question and I am going to write an essay on it and post. There are about three reasons (answers) that work together that causes this to happen I will reveal two the third one is true, but can’t be post here because of controversy, meaning some people will get upset and feel I beating up on blacks. I will write an essay and reveal what have observed that lead to this caving into the one drop blood rule and why others don’t. I will have it up this week on onedropbloodrule.org some of the reasons you may have already heard before.
Gemini072 said: The entertainer Beyonce is of acknowledge Creole heritage, her mother is Creole. There whole clothing line is centered around New Orleans creole culture.
Mulattoprince: If you look at Beyonce and observe her life style, behavior, and culture you will there is nothing unique her culture is definitely black American culture.
This makes no sense, How is a Creole supposed to behave? Culture is culture, I have a Puerto Rican female friend who is always told she doesn't behave like a Puerto Rican... what is that??I think your statement was a bit stereotyping.
You don't know how the Knowles family lives. Maybe there culture is a combo of Southern AA & Creole, unique is not the question. And I brought up Beyonce, not to make a point but to say I heard her and the mother talking about it on a talk show.
This verifies what I say that creole of color is nothing but a sub sect of black American culture. So far all of the blacks who claim creole that I have met can’t speak French creole and show nothing culturally of creole heritage. They claim creole but it comes across as status only, meaning in certain parts of new Orleans saying that you are creole is impressive. But culturally all you see from these blacks daily is black American culture, when you see Puerto-Ricans you see culturally they speak Spanish, music, religion, foods, politics, businesses with signs in Spanish, codes of conduct that are acceptable to fellow Puerto Ricans, etc with these blacks who claim creole you meet any where in America on average you see no constant creole culture. If you do it is very little. Most of it it is left over from the creoles who lived 100 years or more ago.
Creole is nothing more now than a sub group of the black American race, and this tragic
The reality is creole is just a sub sect of the black American race, and no longer carries a separate identity like Latino does. Once upon a time creole had a separate identity from black Americans and this separate identity brought them social status and privileges that the average black America who was in slavery did not have. Forget about slavery and creole the fact was that creole was once on the level of Latino identity meaning it was treated as an ethnic group and culture. It was destroyed by the one drop blood rule, that's all I am saying nothing more.
I have been by both those sites long ago when I was doing research on creoles and Cajuns. The fact still remains that regardless of creole heritage and culture main stream America and blacks when they see someone with black ancestry claiming Creole they still labeled that person a Negro (black). Beyonce and her mother is a perfect example. They are considered simply blacks. Also, a lot of what is very valuable about the creole culture is not based upon what is now, the fascination is based upon the creoles past cultural history. People are more fascinated with creole history than with the creoles of today. Because creole of today has not added a lot of new cultural advancement to their culture they added a little but not much. People see creole mainly as a sub sect of the black race of America.
Posted: Wed 13 Jun 2007 00:07 Post subject: Cajuns and Creoles
Cajuns are thriving because they are not divided by race and caste, unlike the Creoles. However, I am sure the Cajuns are not nearly as "black blood free" as they like to pretend.
Recommended:
The Cajuns: From Acadia to Louisiana (Hardcover)
by William Faulkner Rushton
Rushton is one of the few authors to address the issue of Creole infiltration into the Cajun group.
Beyonce's father is African-American, and her mother is of Creole descent (French, African and Native American). Beyonce's maternal grandparents were French-speaking Louisiana Creoles, and Beyonce's name is a tribute to her mother's surname.
This is the kind of crap that has contributed to the destruction of Creole ethnicity:
Quote:
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
Beyonce is African American just like her mother, father, and sister. Creole isn't an ethnicity, just another term for light skin southern black people. Besides, the lights and makeup make her look appear really light, like Tyra Banks. African Americans come in all shades from the lightest to the darkest.
Beyonce Giselle Knowles was born in Houston, Texas. Her name was inspired by her mother's maiden name, Beyince. Her maternal grandparents, Lumis Beyince and Agnes Dereon, were Creole. Her younger sister is songwriter and producer, Solange Knowles. In 2005, Beyonce and her mother, Tina Knowles, established House of Dereon, a clothing line named after her grandmother Agnes, who was a seamstress.
This just verifies what I say that, creoles have become a sub sect to blacks. The fact that blacks get angry that Beyonce and Solonge are part creole shows that blacks don’t view creole as a unique separate ethnic group. They view creole as a culture but nothing more, because as soon as they saw that beyonce and solonge had black ancestry they put the one drop blood rule on them as claimed them as black. If they were Puerto Ricans blacks would say nothing Puerto Ricans are Latinos.
This just verifies what I say that, creoles have become a sub sect to blacks. The fact that blacks get angry that Beyonce and Solonge are part creole shows that blacks don’t view creole as a unique separate ethnic group. They view creole as a culture but nothing more, because as soon as they saw that beyonce and solonge had black ancestry they put the one drop blood rule on them as claimed them as black. If they were Puerto Ricans blacks would say nothing Puerto Ricans are Latinos.
But Mulattoprince, you did the same thing you accuse 'blacks' of doing. You and I went back n forth a bit because you said there is nothing Creole about them.
Thanks for adding to this, Solange & her husband(ex?)/father of the child are both obviously mixed people. I don't know if he is biracial but it's simple for those 2 to produce a child with blond hair & blue eyes.
(from left, cousin Angela Beyince, Kelly Rowland, Beyoncé, DanielSmith, Solange, mom Tina and dad Mathew).
Last edited by gemini072 on Mon 15 Oct 2007 13:41; edited 1 time in total
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