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MP mulattoprince Wizard

Joined: 10 Apr 2007 {Posts: 464 }
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Posted: Mon 11 Jun 2007 18:10 Post subject: Dubois And Garvey (mulattoes and blacks racial tensions) |
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W.E.B. Dubois was mulatto and Marcus Garvey was a dark skin black
| Quote: | | Marcus Garvey said: All mulattoes should be killed |
Marcus Garvey distrusted people with lighter skin all of his life.
At first, W.E.B. Du Bois gave tepid support to Garvey's ideas for black independence and to the idea of Garvey's Black Star Line. But by 1920 Du Bois had become deeply suspicious of Garvey's methods, ideas, and motives, and published his own damning expose of Black Star Line finances in The Crisis. The animosity between the two men became personal and venomous. W.E.B. Du Bois called Garvey the most dangerous enemy of the Negro race -- either "a lunatic or a traitor." He said Garvey "suffered from serious defects of temperament and training" and described him as " a little, fat, black man, ugly...with a big head." Garvey countered by calling Du Bois the Negro "misleader" and said Du Bois was "a little Dutch, a little French, a little Negro...a mulatto. Why in fact," Garvey wrote, "he is a monstrosity."
Last edited by MP mulattoprince on Mon 11 Jun 2007 18:22; edited 2 times in total |
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MP mulattoprince Wizard

Joined: 10 Apr 2007 {Posts: 464 }
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Posted: Mon 11 Jun 2007 18:12 Post subject: |
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| Mulattoes and blacks will never get along to a satisfactory degree and mulattoes need to have their own category separate from blacks. |
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G-Man Moderator

Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2992 }
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Posted: Mon 11 Jun 2007 18:55 Post subject: |
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| mulattoprince wrote: | | Mulattoes and blacks will never get along to a satisfactory degree and mulattoes need to have their own category separate from blacks. |
Self-described mulattos and blacks get along fairly well in other societies outside the U.S., and even in the U.S., mulatto-looking people who consider themselves black get along fairly well with more African-looking black folks. People who are black and opposed to mulattos getting their own category wouldn't get along any better with mulattos (or people who describe themselves that way) once they get official recognition than they do now. |
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Otorongo Experienced User

Joined: 28 May 2007 {Posts: 107 }
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Posted: Mon 11 Jun 2007 19:00 Post subject: |
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| They get along just fine in many countries. |
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MP mulattoprince Wizard

Joined: 10 Apr 2007 {Posts: 464 }
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Posted: Mon 11 Jun 2007 19:08 Post subject: |
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| They get along fine in many other countries because socially they are recognized and accepted as mulattoes. Wherefore, in America there is a one drop blood rule that just unfortunately labels anyone with one drop of black blood black. Many other countries don’t have this, so it is easier to a mulatto and socially accepted as mulatto, but not in America. In America people see that you are different but still put you in the black race, unless you are Latino black. |
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Otorongo Experienced User

Joined: 28 May 2007 {Posts: 107 }
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Posted: Mon 11 Jun 2007 19:17 Post subject: |
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| Not necessarily, many do adopt other terms other than Black, but many adopt Black as well. It is just not imposed. |
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MP mulattoprince Wizard

Joined: 10 Apr 2007 {Posts: 464 }
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Posted: Mon 11 Jun 2007 19:19 Post subject: |
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@ G-man
G-man said: People who are black and opposed to mulattos getting their own category wouldn't get along any better with mulattos (or people who describe themselves that way) once they get official recognition than they do now.
Response: That is true but the advantage for the mulattoes would be that they are free to move on with out blacks. Therefore work on their own culture, politics, educations, society, etc like Latinos. The freedom to be your own with out having to answer to certain black leaders and deal with all of the problems that torment black America, mulattoes can focus on their own up building.
Now people who describe themselves as mulattoes I look at it like this -- if you are looking very different then blacks or whites or some other ethnic group then none should claim you -- you should be allowed to create your own ethnic category and work on your groups development. One of the major problems for blacks is that they have too many mulattoes and various genetically non African black looking people among them. This just keeps the feeling or inferiority about not having light skin and that entire crap going. Then inferior feeling persons want to take their anger and frustrations out on somebody. Usually other blacks and mulattoes are the innocent victims. They need to be separated like they are considered different groups in many other countries |
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MP mulattoprince Wizard

Joined: 10 Apr 2007 {Posts: 464 }
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Posted: Mon 11 Jun 2007 19:22 Post subject: |
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@ Otorongo
| Quote: | | Not necessarily, many do adopt other terms other than Black, but many adopt Black as well. It is just not imposed. |
My response: I agree but the fact like you said it is not imposed, but in America the one drop blood rule is imposed and policed by other reincarnated NEGROES and the certain MULATTO elites. This is not good and it keeps other mulattoes and even to some degree blacks from progressing. |
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Sankofa Mentor

Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A.
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Posted: Mon 11 Jun 2007 20:53 Post subject: |
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mulattoprince
Would you be equally offended if "White" people considered American "Mulattos" "White"?
I ask because I've heard this kind of argument from disgruntled American "Mulattos" before and the underlining complaint by all of them who had your arguing points, was they hated being considered "Black", but they never complained when someone thought they were "Latino/a", "Middle Eastern"/Persian, Italian, Greecian, etc. You only hear about them complaining when someone defines them as simply "Black". Basically, it seems to me that most disgruntled American "Mulattos" are happy being classified and/or mistaken as any other ethnic group and/or nationality except for "Black" American.
Side note: IMO, just because someone assumes you are "Black" doesn't mean they think you have no other ethnic bloodline ancestry in your DNA makeup. It just means that the African traits show up more to the observer so socially they see you as "Black" but that doesn't prove anything genetically or culturally. If they (the observer) discriminate against you because they see you as simply "Black", then screw them because they aren't worthy to be your friend in the first place. Their loyalty or hospitality relies on whether or not you have visible, recent "Black" admixture or if you are a pure "WASP", IMO. Either way, they aren't sh*t in my opinion for doing that. I'm just saying... |
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High School Teacher Mentor

Joined: 02 Feb 2007 {Posts: 255 } Location: California
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Posted: Mon 11 Jun 2007 22:55 Post subject: |
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| Sankofa wrote: | mulattoprince
Would you be equally offended if "White" people considered American "Mulattos" "White"?
I ask because I've heard this kind of argument from disgruntled American "Mulattos" before and the underlining complaint by all of them who had your arguing points, was they hated being considered "Black", but they never complained when someone thought they were "Latino/a", "Middle Eastern"/Persian, Italian, Greecian, etc. You only hear about them complaining when someone defines them as simply "Black". Basically, it seems to me that most disgruntled American "Mulattos" are happy being classified and/or mistaken as any other ethnic group and/or nationality except for "Black" American.
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There is a lot of truth in your statement. My impression of individuals who strongly self-identify as "mulatto" (i.e. advocating a separate identity from blacks) is that they are dealing with some self-hate issues. Sort of like Malcolm X in reverse.
Skip Gates' Wonders of the Africa World PBS series had a moment where Prof. Gates was talking with some of locals in either Kenya or Tanzania who were claiming to be "Arab" even though they look anything but Arab. Skip Gates compared that sort of preference for any identity other than pure blooded negro to the situation of American blacks (and mulattos).
IMO, the so-called friction between mulattos and blacks in the US is entirely overblown. To extent there is and has been friction, I 'd hypothesize that it had its origins in what I would call the 'mulatto superiority complex'. If I may borrow E. Franklin Frazier's terminology in his Black Bourgeosie, reactionary mulattos are trapped in a liminal state between the "World of Reality" and the "World of Make Believe". |
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Metro Probationary
Joined: 18 May 2007 {Posts: 5 }
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Posted: Tue 12 Jun 2007 00:29 Post subject: |
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The Basis of it all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn5IWqCiP3E
I don't separate "Mulattoes" from "other" or regular blacks, unless we are differentiating in the physical appearance department. Other than that i think any attempt to diminish blacks to help arise the mulatto is futile.
Just as it may give a feeling of deprivation by being lumped with blacks of misfortune, that same shame should apply to being akin to whites who carry a superiority complex etc.
have fun, this board looks boring
Metro |
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MP mulattoprince Wizard

Joined: 10 Apr 2007 {Posts: 464 }
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Posted: Tue 12 Jun 2007 06:34 Post subject: |
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@ High School Teacher
I saw that video clip and those people are arab looking the only thing that showed that they had some black ancestry was that the hair was a mixed black and arab hair combined. Outside of that these people had brownish yellow skin like arabs and looked totally different from blacks with dark skin and caramel skin. These people are are lighter than the moors who conquered Spain, and a moor was a person who was part black and part arab. You are just following the phony fake one drop blood rule, and trying to place this one drop blood rule on the Lemu arab tribe in this skip gates (Henry Louis Gates jr.) video. These Lemu arabs have some black ancestry but looking way more arab than black. You are putting the one drop blood rule on them, nothing more.
Frank sweet is Puerto Rican he may in his back ground some where had black ancestry but he looks white totally, so is Frank the owner of onedropbloodrule.org a black man? |
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MP mulattoprince Wizard

Joined: 10 Apr 2007 {Posts: 464 }
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Posted: Tue 12 Jun 2007 07:27 Post subject: |
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@ Sankofa
The reason mulattoes and light skin people in America who have some black ancestry keep having people mistake them for Latinos, Cubans, Puerto Ricans, and other ethnic groups is because people can see they are mixed. Blacks just want to keep these mulattoes with them for various humiliating reasons. Also, Sankofa you are simply going by the phony fake one drop blood rule nothing more, what looks black to you is not a black person in the eyes of Latinos and other ethnic groups. Even Africa does not consider mulattoes official members of the black race. This is why you have coloureds in Africa. The coloureds look less mixed than American mulattoes and light skinned ones. Many backs feel oppressed and want mulattoes to feel the same way. Long ago mulattoes in America were considered coloreds and the America courts considered blacks and mulattoes different ethnic groups. Blacks and whites did consider mulattoes different too.
Let us all go back to what once was. Many blacks hate their dark and caramel skin tones especially dark skin blacks. If blacks considered mulattoes blacks then why do they call them mulattoes, light skin, mutts, and other names? Why not just call them blacks? Because they know that mulattoes are another ethnic group. Also mulattoes if they are called white well they are part white, no one gets upset when mulattoes are called black. And, they are neither fully black nor white, so why not start calling them white. I say give them back their separate category. Some blacks hate being black and are jealous because they can’t pass for something else. |
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Salsassin SuperWizard

Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 }
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Posted: Tue 12 Jun 2007 10:41 Post subject: |
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| mulattoprince wrote: | @ High School Teacher
I saw that video clip and those people are arab looking the only thing that showed that they had some black ancestry was that the hair was a mixed black and arab hair combined. Outside of that these people had brownish yellow skin like arabs and looked totally different from blacks with dark skin and caramel skin. These people are are lighter than the moors who conquered Spain, and a moor was a person who was part black and part arab. You are just following the phony fake one drop blood rule, and trying to place this one drop blood rule on the Lemu arab tribe in this skip gates (Henry Louis Gates jr.) video. These Lemu arabs have some black ancestry but looking way more arab than black. You are putting the one drop blood rule on them, nothing more.
Frank sweet is Puerto Rican he may in his back ground some where had black ancestry but he looks white totally, so is Frank the owner of onedropbloodrule.org a black man? |
I think he is speaking about the Swahili.
http://www.pbs.org/wonders/Episodes/Epi2/2_retel1.htm
From Lamu, in Kenya.
Very similar to the variety seen in Ethiopia. |
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MP mulattoprince Wizard

Joined: 10 Apr 2007 {Posts: 464 }
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Posted: Tue 12 Jun 2007 11:05 Post subject: |
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@ Salsassin
Because I saw the video with gates and the Lemu, the Lemu religious leader was interviewed by gates, and the Lemu leaders son or grandson translated from english into what ever language the Lemu leader spoke.
Your right there is a lot of variety in there look at some of these people, and at the same time they look mixed.
Last edited by MP mulattoprince on Tue 12 Jun 2007 11:31; edited 1 time in total |
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fwsweet Administrator

Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5376 } Location: Palm Coast, FL
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Posted: Tue 12 Jun 2007 11:15 Post subject: |
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| Sankofa wrote: | | [regarding "Mulatto" being a separate category from "Black."]Either way, they aren't sh*t in my opinion for doing that. |
| mulattoprince wrote: | | I say give them back their separate category. Some blacks hate being black and are jealous because they can’t pass for something else. |
The above are expressions of political advocacy, asserting that a separate "Mulatto" catergory is A Good Thing or a Bad Thing. As such, they are not allowed in this forum. Either keep your value judgments to yourselves or move this part of the conversation to the "Issues for Biracial Americans" forum. |
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G-Man Moderator

Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2992 }
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Posted: Tue 12 Jun 2007 12:57 Post subject: |
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| mulattoprince wrote: | | They get along fine in many other countries because socially they are recognized and accepted as mulattoes. Wherefore, in America there is a one drop blood rule that just unfortunately labels anyone with one drop of black blood black. Many other countries don’t have this, so it is easier to a mulatto and socially accepted as mulatto, but not in America. In America people see that you are different but still put you in the black race, unless you are Latino black. |
Being socially recognized as mulatto doesn't necessarily lead to positive relations between those socially or legally recognized as such and blacks. Haiti is a prime example where the two groups have often been at each other's throats but they recognize themselves as distinct.
What fosters positive relations between the two and other groups is, IMO, investment in a common nationality and common culture. Hence, in places like Puerto Rico, Cuba, Venezuela, Seychelles, despite the existence of colorism, there are cordial and intimate relations between people seen as mulatto (or something other than black) and black, and no I'm not saying these places are racial paradises. This is difficult for many Americans to grasp, including the mulatto-identified folks, because we think of racial groups as clearly-defined entities without permeability that are culturally distinct (or should be). Mulatto separatists or race nationalists in the U.S. aren’t any different from any other U.S.-based race nationalist in their refusal to accept the fact that race isn’t the only means by which people in other lands organize their lives.
| High School Teacher wrote: | | Skip Gates' Wonders of the Africa World PBS series had a moment where Prof. Gates was talking with some of locals in either Kenya or Tanzania who were claiming to be "Arab" even though they look anything but Arab. Skip Gates compared that sort of preference for any identity other than pure blooded negro to the situation of American blacks (and mulattos). |
I believe you are referencing Gates’ interview with a Sheik Badawi on Lemu Island who claimed to be of pure Arab lineage. He looked as Arab as many Arabs from North Africa or the Gulf, but he denied having any African ancestry, which given his appearance, was hard to believe. This is hardly akin to any “situation” between American black and mulattos, despite what Gates thinks. Those who identify as mulatto aren’t rejecting their African ancestry like the Sheik, just a black racial or ethnic label, even if they express hostility toward blacks and whites in doing so.
For many people, however, any identity for a person with some African that is anything but black is a sign that the person hates black people and is dealing with self-hatred (directed at their African ancestry). Those who feel this way will point to those who are hostile to black people and contemptuous of their African ancestry as the norm or the inevitable end result of what happens when people reject a black racial or ethnic label.
The interview with the Sheik can be viewed here: http://www.pbs.org/wonders/fr_e2.htm
A brief transcript:
| Quote: |
C.U. GATES.
GATES: You have a noble ancestry. Do you have African ancestors as well?
SHEIKH BADAWI: (SUBTITLES) We don't have African ancestry, but we try not to think badly of those who do
ALI: All his ancestors are coming from, from Arab people. And in the past there was a system of making concubines …
GATES: Concubines?
ALI: Yeah, among those women.
GATES: Yes.
ALI: So it resulted people to, to be considered as inferior.
GATES: Ah. And the concubines were African women?
ALI: Yeah, conflicts, yeah.
GATES: I see. Why did Arab men take African women as concubines?
ALI: Maybe people could not afford to marry mainly Arabs, Arab people, so the Africans who are the local people who are cheap. And other reasons best known to them. |
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MP mulattoprince Wizard

Joined: 10 Apr 2007 {Posts: 464 }
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Posted: Tue 12 Jun 2007 13:52 Post subject: |
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@ G-Man
| Quote: |
Mulatto separatists or race nationalists in the U.S. aren’t any different from any other U.S.-based race nationalist in their refusal to accept the fact that race isn’t the only means by which people in other lands organize their lives. |
America is based upon racial groups and racial group’s cultures, but America has many people from various mixtures example mualttoes (mulattos), but yet America has no way of dealing with these types of people culturally. America just says go join the black race, but being in the black race is a problem and there are tensions because biracials and mulattoes are not fully welcomed. They are black by default, America does not have the cultural system of dealing with people the way Latinos have. Latinos go by culture first not race, and America needs to adopt this type of system.
America has too many people who have out grown that label of racial group. We need the categories of ethnic group which are cultural like Latinos. |
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fwsweet Administrator

Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5376 } Location: Palm Coast, FL
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Posted: Tue 12 Jun 2007 13:57 Post subject: |
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| mulattoprince wrote: | | America needs to adopt this type of system. ... We need the categories of ethnic group which are cultural like Latinos. |
I already mentioned (above) that such political advocacy is forbidden in this forum. Please consider this a serious warning. Again, I suggest that you take it to "Issues for Biracial Americans" or "Improving U.S. Society." This forum is for discussing ethnicity as it is, not how it should be. Your posting privilege will be suspended if you continue political advocacy in this forum. |
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Salsassin SuperWizard

Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 }
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Posted: Tue 12 Jun 2007 14:02 Post subject: |
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| mulattoprince wrote: | @ Salsassin
Because I saw the video with gates and the Lemu, the Lemu religious leader was interviewed by gates, and the Lemu leaders son or grandson translated from english into what ever language the Lemu leader spoke.
Your right there is a lot of variety in there look at some of these people, and at the same time they look mixed. |
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