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Beauty
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{Posts: 102 }

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2007 12:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

mulattoprince wrote:

@ Beauty
Beauty said: In my opinion, the fray is not going to be helpful. My prediction, is there going to many people spouting a lot of nonsense which is not based on any facts or foundation. I suspect there will be many militant blacks, whites and mulattos pushing there agenda on everybody.

You did not give a prediction all you did was stated what I said the fray was going to be for, and that is so that all kinds of advocacy can be presented. Whether by blacks, whites, mulattos, militants, pushing their advocacy (agendas), etc…. I stated this, so you gave no prediction you in general repeated what I said the Fray is going to be for.

I am uncertain if you understood my comment clearly, so I am going to rephrase it differently. From my own perspective pushing your agenda and advocating share similarities but differ in meaning particularly the context I am using. Advocacy is arguing/speaking on the behalf of a issues, people, organisation and so on. Although pushing an agenda is similar it also implies to me, trying to convert peoples or trying to forcibly impose your opinions/will on others. In this context, I am concerned primarily with the militants trying to push propaganda on others. Do you understand my points?

That’s what the fray is going to be there for the name fray should its purpose. Yes people are going to hammer it out this will keep them from advocating in the other forums. As stated the fray is not a scholarly forum but no doubt there will be some intellectual scholarly work posted over there. The fray is for advocating you are Beauty are thinking of the fray as a scholarly forum when stated clearly in my post that it is not. Also, like I said if the fray is created some people will lurk.


Mulattoprince, I would appreciate if you do not state what I am thinking as a fact because you are not in my head. Please if you have any doubt on what I said, ask me for clarification. I did not suggest the fray will be a scholarly forum. I will clarify what I mean in another way. I am suggesting, I suspect that many people will try and convert people to their way of thinking. Thus will encourage an competitive element because I suspect it will be a case of proving/being right and wrong. Therefore I have concluded the exchanges will be purposeless and meaningless. I have also taken into consideration, the goal of the site of the site is to learn and inform about racialism in the US.

Mulattoprince, I understand fray will not be a scholarly forum. However that does not mean it is right to state things that are factually untrue or things that lack a foundation. This is particularly true when stating ones opinion as fact. This another of my primary concerns, the fray will encourage some people to state their opinion as a fact when it is clearly untrue. In my eyes this will defeat the purpose of the site.

I have given a examples to demonstrate what I mean:

1. The sky is orange.

2. All white men are paedophiles‘.

3. Every Black man is a robber.

All the above examples are stated as facts. The first example lacks foundation. The second and the last do have foundations because they are based on stereotypes and they may or may not be based on some truth. However they are being stated as a fact. In both of these instances, it would be better to inject words such as some, minority, many and so on. Also you can based on my own experiences …………………
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Salsassin
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2007 13:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

lady marmalade wrote:
Yeah but it seems like that board is just all militant mulatto rhetoric, all the time - with a little racism towards Blacks thrown in for good measure.

Only because mulatto militants are dominant there. But People asked for a place where all of the above could be done. It can be done over there.
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MP mulattoprince
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2007 13:46    Post subject: Reply with quote



@ Beauty

As me and Mr. Sweet have said only, people who want to be in the fray forum will be there and this is the only way some can get converted by a zealot, and on top that if it is not against your will you agreed with the ideology of that converter.

That why it is why it is called the fray meaning you are more free to speak. Like I said, if you are not going to be participating don’t waste time people telling us why you don’t like the fray stay in the scholarly forums. Also, another reason is this many people who give opinions may not be frequent posters or commenters (may leave soon or comment once in awhile) people come and go leave and stay. Also I feel that some people who may secretively or publicly say they don’t like the fray if that fray forum is opened I bet you find them there. The only way to find out whether the fray will help contribute to the mission of this website is to open a fray forum and let see. Never know until you try it.

I feel it will help.


Beauty said: have given a examples to demonstrate what I mean:

1. The sky is orange.

2. All white men are paedophiles‘.

3. Every Black man is a robber.

It is the fray, and they can say some of these silly things, anyone can see that a poster who would even post something like that is just trying to get you into an debate. Also, it is up to the commenters in the fray to decide whether they even want to go comment on that posters thread. There will be other very intelligent posts (essays) in the fray to comment on. Let us not speculate on the fray let us create the fray and see how it turns out. The only way to find out whether the fray will help contribute to the mission of this website is to open a fray forum and let see. Never know until you try it.
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MP mulattoprince
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2007 14:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Salsassin

Originally when mulatto.org opened you got banned machito called you a troll. Now you are back over there Hmmmmm!
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Beauty
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2007 14:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="mulattoprince"][size=15]

That why it is why it is called the fray meaning you are more free to speak. Like I said, if you are not going to be participating don’t waste time people telling us why you don’t like the fray stay in the scholarly forums. Also, another reason is this many people who give opinions may not be frequent posters or commenters (may leave soon or comment once in awhile) people come and go leave and stay. Also I feel that some people who may secretively or publicly say they don’t like the fray if that fray forum is opened I bet you find them there. The only way to find out whether the fray will help contribute to the mission of this website is to open a fray forum and let see. Never know until you try it.

I find your comments a bit rude. You have made a suggestion and I have offered my opinion. This does not give the right to dictate what I should read. I understand this is an open discussion, and since I am a member I exercise the right to my opinion. I noticed the you used the word "us" which implies you are speaking on the behalf of others, I think you should speak for yourself only.

I agree, many of the people who are not keen on it will probably visit the forum. I also agree that is impossible know if the fray will be useful until it tried. However, I suspect it won't, which is different from me saying I know it won't work.
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MP mulattoprince
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2007 14:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Beauty

I am sorry if you find my comment I bit rude, I am sorry for that no ofense meant in an evil way, I apologize for that BEAUTY.

I used the term us to mean us as in those who might want to try it out, and are interested. But I am speaking for myself. Yes, you have the right to speak, you are a member of this site and I respect that right to speak as a member. I would not wnt to have someon try to take mine away, your opinion was appreciated. I feel it will more than likely work, but at the sametime you are rght it may not work or it may work. If Mr. F sweet opens up a FRAY forum then I will be able to see if it would work.

Thank you for your opinion.
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chasbyrd
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Joined: 27 Nov 2004
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Location: NYC

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2007 15:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

gemini072 wrote:
and as far as the religious section we have forum that is open to religious discussions...Improving U.S. Society


Though I’ve posted religious missives, I was never quite sure as to whether there was a forum that was indeed “open to religious discussions.” The goal of this website is a Discussion of U.S. Racialism, yet religion and race are inextricably linked – at least in the American context. This is particularly true in the “black” community where a large percentage of the self-appointed political leadership doubles as members of the priestly caste.
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MP mulattoprince
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2007 17:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ chasbyrd

I also posted this comment over in the Slaves and reincarnation essay Chasbyrd.


Yes I am familiar with the Bhagavad gita that celestial song, that holy song (book). Lord Krishna the hero of the bhagavad gita who encouraged Arjuna to fight against the enemy. Krishna an avatar of Vishnu and Vishnu is represented ganesha the great elephant. Lord Vishnu rides on garuda (a bird). Rama and Sita Rama the hero of the Ramayana. Valmiki wrote the Ramayana and thousands of years later tulsidas rewrote the Ramayana and called it Rāmacaritamānasa ("The Lake of the Deeds of Rama"). Tulsidas is said to have been a reincarnation of Valmiki. Tulsidas’s version of the Ramayana is similar but a little different from the Valmiki version Valmiki’s version have 24, 0000 verses. Tulsidas’s version is often written in prose. Krishna and Radha Rama and Sita Buddha and Yasodhara, husbands and wives, wow! The Hindu epics are powerful and inspirational.

The 10 avatars that the Hindu scriptures speak of 9 have come -- one more to go. The next and final (last) avatar will be called the Maitreya Buddha. It is said in the Hindu scriptures that Maitreya Buddha will come on a riding on a white horse. The Bible also speaks of a savior on a white horse.
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MP mulattoprince
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2007 17:49    Post subject: Reply with quote


There needs to be a religious forum the religious forum must not be a part of another forum. The first words people should see on that forum is religion.
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chasbyrd
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Location: NYC

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2007 18:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

mulattoprince wrote:
There needs to be a religious forum the religious forum must not be a part of another forum. The first words people should see on that forum is religion.


Be prepared for a lot of arguing back and forth. A religion forum in itself would be a sort of "fray” between passionate defenders of the various faiths.
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fwsweet
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Joined: 26 Nov 2004
{Posts: 5380 }
Location: Palm Coast, FL

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2007 18:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

chasbyrd wrote:
A religion forum in itself would be a sort of "fray” between passionate defenders of the various faiths.

Does that mean that you recommend against the idea? (I hate to put you on the spot, but I regret that I must.)
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chasbyrd
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2007 18:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

fwsweet wrote:
chasbyrd wrote:
A religion forum in itself would be a sort of "fray” between passionate defenders of the various faiths.

Does that mean that you recommend against the idea? (I hate to put you on the spot, but I regret that I must.)


No. I'm not recommending against it. In fact, I think it can be useful and educational as long as people are respectful. My experience shows that the world’s religions agree on 95% of the issues, but they’re willing to argue, fight and kill over the remaining 5%. I’d like to see such a forum.

I'm not so sure, however, about the other forum that mulattoprince conceived – The Fray.
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Salsassin
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{Posts: 3515 }

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2007 20:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

mulattoprince wrote:
@ Salsassin

Originally when mulatto.org opened you got banned machito called you a troll. Now you are back over there Hmmmmm!

LOL. Machito called me many things. But let's talk facts:
I asked to be banned from the forum the first time because they were deleting posts that didn't fit their agenda.
Then they re invited me.
Out of boredom, I returned. Eli couldn't handle reality and banned me again.
I have not rejoined that site. I joined the Debate forum because it does not supposedly allow too much moderator censorship. But the fact is that Mulatto.og has NEVER been able to handle honest debate. So they already banned me from their supposed open debate forum because I challenged their mulatto nationalist propaganda. The board is just a farse, like Egyptsearch to claim free speech while actually using censorship tactics.
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Melani23
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
{Posts: 1193 }
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jun 2007 14:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinions:

I would be against having 'The Fray' as part of ODR simply because there are many sites that already serve the purpose of 'flame wars'. And it is very amusing to see 'zealots' of all stripes try to get around ODR site rules (pre and post banning). Laughing Laughing Laughing

A religion forum could be interesting, but only if it was listed under the political advocacy forums. Perhaps a sub-forum? My only requirement would be that that religious text be cited to 'verify' doctrine, belief, etc. Afterall, you can't really quantify 'faith', now can you? Wink

Cool
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DChapman
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Joined: 27 Nov 2004
{Posts: 1763 }
Location: Hudson Valley, NY

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jun 2007 14:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

gemini072 wrote:
fwsweet wrote:
mulattoprince wrote:
People who are not going to participate in the FRAY should not comment and say, "please MR F. Sweet don’t create the Fray."

Whether or not I create your proposed forum will not depend on those who dislike flame wars. As you say, they will either lurk or avoid it entirely.

The thread Who are the "Black Zealots" in this form is trending in the same direction, and so I asked HST and Jaime to join us here.

The question is: "Would it be beneficial to have a place where advocates of every stripe could hammer it out with minimal rules?"

My only goal is to accomplish the mission of this site. The site mission is to enable people to inform and to become informed about U.S. racialism, nothing more. (A guy who threatened to sue us once said its goal was to sell books, but that is incorrect. There are easier ways to sell books.) And so, the only question I have is whether such a forum would help or hinder that mission.

Pro: The two political advocacy forums are popular. Each has more posts than any two other forums. Each has eight times as many posts as my own pet forums (the history ones). I suspect that the proposed mud-wrestling forum (may I call it that without offending anyone?) would be even more popular yet. My hope would be that by attracting visitors to such a spectacle, a few might accidentally visit a scholarly forum and learn something.

Con: There are a zillion other sites that already do exactly that. Even mulatto.org now has what I call a mud-wrestling forum. Why should we try to compete with them?


we should not try to compete, this is a totally different setting. I personally would not take part in the fray.

and as far as the religious section we have forum that is open to religious discussions...Improving U.S. Society


I agree completely.
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MP mulattoprince
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Joined: 10 Apr 2007
{Posts: 464 }

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jun 2007 13:58    Post subject: Reply with quote




We need a forum like this because there is a problem in the other forums, and I feel it is hurting the website too some degree -- and good intentions sometimes make things a little bit ruff. We need a forum independent of the scholarly forums we really do. Forget about flame wars it is not all about that there needs to be a forum separate from the others so things can run smoother.
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