Posted: Wed 27 Apr 2005 16:52 Post subject: not Black, not Biracial maybe Other maybe not
In most conversations about who is mixed who is not, the focus tends to be on white looking people or 1/2black 1/2 white biracials(mulattoes)
I've been having some interesting conversations with some 'Mulatto / Creole' identified people who play around seriously with blood percentages and even though they totally detest the "One Drop Rule" will quickly say 'someone who is 65% or more black is basically just Black. Yet if someone is 95% white they are quick to acknowledge them as multiracial or mixed.
I still have no definate answers about this, most likely because it's not really discussed or identified in books on Multiracial identity.
A few examples from some of these people who say: 1.) Whitney Houston is basically Black
Whitneys father is 1/2Native-American
2.)Phylicia Allen-Rashad is mostly black
I know the answers might seem simple... but maybe it really isn't
Many people judge things by percentages as in if a 1/2white 1/2black person has a child with a (monoracial)Black person then the child is 65-70% Black. And they figure looks in with that...
actress Holly Robinson-Peete is a 'visually mixed' woman, her mother looks like a light brown version of Lena Horne (I don't know if she is biracial or not) her husband was Matt Robinson(Gordon from Sesame St) according to some people any child from this union(let's just say Mrs.Robinson is the child of a Mulatto) is more 'Black' and if that child had a child with a 'Black' person then that child would basically be 'black'
Now Holly could be the full sister of actress Rachel True(biracial)
one person even said by looking at Rachel Trues picture that she is like 75% Black (before they found out she is biracial)
And when you look at Holly's children with a 'black' man their kids look just as or more mixed than she (they could actually be thought to be Biracial)
Just want some opinions, no bashing on any particular group.
Last edited by gemini072 on Thu 28 Apr 2005 14:00; edited 2 times in total
That is why I choose identifying as Afro-American and simply that (no "Indian" blood and this or that )! Although our community has its share of problems (as any group of people), as a whole I don't think I've had to deal with the color conciousness that I would have to in other ethnicities/nationalities!
I've listen to enough people on this site to realize that in the "Multiracial community or Movement" is NOT where I want to be anywhere near! I think this kind of colorism is the exact same reason why Multiracial numbers are so darn low on the census, and not the so call "Soul Patrol" as we've been warned!
You got people like the brown skinned/ kinky haired Creole girl I met last Saturday who probably feels she couldn't identified as "Multiracial" because she apperantly looks too "Black". And you got millions of so call Multiracial Hispanics (and Asians) who won't check Multiracial because they'd prefer something that makes them feel more Caucasian even though 2/3 of American Hispanics are of Mexican orgin (and the Mexican goverment claims only 9% of the population IS White/Caucasian)!
A multiracial category will never work in this country!
And if the census is correct, which it is b/c its based on self identity, 95% of people feel comfortable checking off ONLY African-American. I think it doesn't put as much emphasis on apperance or ancestry! Imagine if you're Lisa Bonet and you're on this site and see the thread about "Biracial hair" and you know your hair is just as nappy as can be?! Don't you think even she would feel less "Biracial"?Or imagine if you're Lenny kravtiz and you're on this site and hear someone say "if Blacks were truly 1/10 as mixed as they claimed they'd look like Latinos"?! I'm sure Lenny has never been mistaken for George Lopez
In most conversations about who is mixed who is not, the focus tends to be on white looking people or 1/2black 1/2 white biracials(mulattoes)
I've been having some interesting conversations with some 'Mulatto / Creole' identified people who play around seriously with blood percentages and even though they totally detest the "One Drop Rule" will quickly say 'someone who is 65% or more black is basically just Black. Yet if someone is 95% white they are quick to acknowledge them as multiracial or mixed.
I still have no definate answers about this, most likely because it's not really discussed or identified in books on Multiracial identity.
I dont think that a 65% measurement of African genes is definitive for making someone just black. Most of the time, individuals with 50% African genes are discernibly black to most Americans. This is not to say that these individuals dont look mixed, most of the time, their black ancestry is quite visible. When the black percentage goes higher, the non-black ancestry becomes less obvious. This isnt to say that the non-black ancestry disappears completely, it only becomes less obvious. Malcolm X had a mulatto mother and a dark black father. His hair was reddish and Id say that he had some discernibly non-black features but youd have to be paying attention to notice them. I think these numbers representing percentages are merely a means to quantify a guess for predicting what the offspring is expected to look like. Sometimes these quantified guesses are dead on, other times, they're way off.
The mulatto/Creole identified people that you refer to in your post are not completely free of ODR ideology if they are unable to acknowledge someone who is 95% white (presumably 5% black) as a white person simply because they are aware of this persons remote black ancestry. Most of the time, if a white person says that his grandmother is Cherokee, this person, being presumably 25% Native American and 75% white, will have no trouble at all being seen as white by these mulatto/Creoles. Contrast the 75% white person who gets to be white (even with 25% Indian ancestry) with the 95% white person who is mixed instead of white in the eyes of these mulatto/Creole identified folks because of the known 5% black ancestry. Sounds like a watered down version of the ODR.
gemini072 wrote:
Many people judge things by percentages as in if a 1/2white 1/2black person has a child with a (monoracial)Black person then the child is 65-70% Black. And they figure looks in with that...
actress Holly Robinson-Peete is a 'visually mixed' woman, her mother looks like a light brown version of Lena Horne (I don't know if she is biracial or not) her husband was Matt Robinson(Gordon from Sesame St) according to some people any child from this union(let's just say Mrs.Robinson is the child of a Mulatto) is more 'Black' and if that child had a child with a 'Black' person then that child would basically be 'black'
And when you look at Holly's children with a 'black' man their kids look just as or more mixed than she (they could actually be thought to be Biracial)
We really dont know what Hollys husband is mixed with or if theres any non-black mixture with her husband. It seems like its assumed that this man is 100% black because hes dark. Perhaps her husband is the darker child of two mulatto parents and if you were to see her husbands full-blooded siblings, some of them may be much lighter than Hollys husband. Just because it may be assumed that these children are mostly black, doesnt mean that they actually are. Many multiracial people with African ancestry are labeled black only and their non-black ancestry is reduced to nothing more than an explanation for light eyes, soft hair, light skin etc. Human genetics is not subject to race ideology and other social constructs. My father use to tell me, The genes dont lie.
Posted: Thu 28 Apr 2005 13:53 Post subject: Malcomn X and daughters
mixedmom wrote: Malcolm X had a mulatto mother and a dark black father. His hair was reddish and Id say that he had some discernibly non-black features but youd have to be paying attention to notice them. I think these numbers representing percentages are merely a means to quantify a guess for predicting what the offspring is expected to look like. Sometimes these quantified guesses are dead on, other times, they're way off.
Attalah Shabazz, right, and Malaak Shabazz, two of Malcolm X's daughters, confer during the news conference.
Ilyasah Shabazz
Benedikt Taschen, publisher of GOAT, Attallah Shabazz (eldest daughter of Malcolm X), and Muhammad Ali, pose for the camera as they enjoy the festivities. (Photo credit: Taschen)
On another topic, I often see people writing that Frederick Douglass (who was of at least 50 percent European ancestry) was very dark-complected. How can people know this? The photos back then were all B/W and, due to the pigments used, even bright yellow cavalry sashes looked black.
Posted: Thu 28 Apr 2005 16:56 Post subject: Frederick Douglas
I agree Frank, on both points
I think he may have been one of those more deeply reddish/brown mulattoes but, also certain people have complexions that darken or lighten a bit depending on the seasons.
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And you got millions of so call Multiracial Hispanics (and Asians) who won't check Multiracial because they'd prefer something that makes them feel more Caucasian even though 2/3 of American Hispanics are of Mexican orgin (and the Mexican goverment claims only 9% of the population IS White/Caucasian)!
