The Study of Racialism Discussion of U.S. Racialism Please read The Rules before posting.    FAQ   Search     Register     Log in  ' MUTTS, MULATTOS, AND PAPER BAGS Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next          The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> Racial Identity and The Multiracial Experience Author Message GermanChocolate New User Joined: 08 Jul 2006 {Posts: 44 } Posted: Sat 30 Jun 2007 21:33    Post subject: Editor's note Quote: We come in every color from ebony to ivory, with every hair texture and eye color under the sun. And none of us is any more- or less -Black because of it. I had to comment on the ignorance of this first. I have yet to see a ivory colored AA. Talk about one dropping.. As for Mary J. she was all the rage when I was a teen in the early 90's, and was never considered light skinned. I used to live in New Orleans and a black guy said, "Hey Red.." and my complexion is not like the girl second from the right. So it depends on where you live, and the individual. Back to top Phil345 Wizard Joined: 03 Oct 2005 {Posts: 524 } Posted: Sat 30 Jun 2007 21:33    Post subject: fwsweet wrote: Phil345 wrote: Salsassin wrote: For me a redbone would be the second to from the left. I'm sure it varies widely by region ... See http://redboneheritagefoundation.com/ interesting..... Modern usage of the term "redbone" among african americans is completely unrelated to this original ethnic group. I wonder how this became. Back to top Phil345 Wizard Joined: 03 Oct 2005 {Posts: 524 } Posted: Sat 30 Jun 2007 21:43    Post subject: GermanChocolate wrote: Quote: Editor's noteQuote: We come in every color from ebony to ivory, with every hair texture and eye color under the sun. And none of us is any more- or less -Black because of it. I had to comment on the ignorance of this first. I have yet to see a ivory colored AA. Whats ignorant about it? If you havent met any, then you havent been around. Quote: Talk about one dropping.. thats not "one dropping". Back to top fwsweet Administrator Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5381 } Location: Palm Coast, FL Posted: Sat 30 Jun 2007 21:46    Post subject: Phil345 wrote: Modern usage of the term "redbone" among african americans is completely unrelated to this original ethnic group. I wonder how this became. If you go to the site, then click on "Photo Gallery," and scroll down to the snapshots of the 2005 and 2006 conferences. Mary Lee and I attended both conferences and we are in many of the photos (in one photo we are even in costume, performing). One of the photos of the 2005 conference shows Mary Lee and A.D. Powell and me sitting at a table together, selling and autographing our books. (Incidentally, the Redbones run about 6 percent subsaharan DNA admixture--a bit less than Argentineans but a bit more than Melungeons.) The two usages of the term are not unrelated. The descriptive term common among A-As derives from the name of the triracial maroon ethnic group, although few of the term's users know its derivation. It is sort of like the terms "booze" (for whisky) or "his name is 'mud'," where Mr. Booze and Dr. Mudd were real people, although only historians are aware of it today. Last edited by fwsweet on Sat 30 Jun 2007 22:57; edited 1 time in total Back to top Wiingashk83 New User Joined: 29 Jun 2007 {Posts: 10 } Location: Ypsilanti, MI, United States Posted: Sat 30 Jun 2007 22:01    Post subject: Historically speaking, Redbone's have nothing to do with AA's, except in the fact that some of them have a percentage of African heritage. A redbone used to be, from what I recall a derogatory term for a mixed Native American(like myself). They have varied skin tones. My tone is a lighter(not quite caramel) red-brown. I have a first cousin with very pale, almost white skin with a hint of red. She has blue-green eyes, mine are brown. Some people consider them a subgroup of the melungeons. Wiingashk Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Sat 30 Jun 2007 22:47    Post subject: fwsweet wrote: Phil345 wrote: Salsassin wrote: For me a redbone would be the second to from the left. I'm sure it varies widely by region ... See http://redboneheritagefoundation.com/ Yeah, I am aware of the ethnic group called redbone as well. Back to top BillyMadison79 Experienced User Joined: 01 Mar 2007 {Posts: 133 } Posted: Sat 30 Jun 2007 22:55    Post subject: Ivory colored Black person is an oxymoron IMO, unless ofcourse your talking about Black Albinos.But if we're talking about regular Blacks who were not born with the Albino disease than having an Ivory complexion is not possible at all. Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Sat 30 Jun 2007 23:05    Post subject: fwsweet wrote: Phil345 wrote: Modern usage of the term "redbone" among african americans is completely unrelated to this original ethnic group. I wonder how this became. If you go to the site, then click on "Photo Gallery," and scroll down to the snapshots of the 2005 and 2006 conferences. Mary Lee and I attended both conferences and we are in many of the photos (in one photo we are even in costume, performing). One of the photos of the 2005 conference shows Mary Lee and A.D. Powell and me sitting at a table together, selling and autographing our books. (Incidentally, the Redbones run about 6 percent subsaharan DNA admixture--a bit less than Argentineans but a bit more than Melungeons.) [Photo replaced with link at A.D.'s request -- FWS] http://redboneheritagefoundation.com/2005_conference_photos.htm Barely recognize her. But it is her. Quote: The two usages of the term are not unrelated at all. The descriptive term common among A-As derives from the name of the triracial maroon ethnic group, although few of the term's users know its derivation. It is sort of like the terms "booze" (for whisky) or "his name is 'mud'," where Mr. Booze and Dr. Mudd were real people, although only historians are aware of it today. I think it may be a case of convergent terms. The other term that pre-dates redone was red igbo used in the islands. I posted about it before. http://onedroprule.org/about625.html As well as here: http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mulatto/vpost?id=962668 Quote: In Jamaica they use the word ‘Red Ibo’ to describe certain fair-skinned people who live in the harbour areas. Merchant seamen, sailors’ cargo ships and so on bring foreigners who sleep with local women and so there are many mixed race people in these areas. Anyway, the term ‘Red Ibo’ was used (it is no longer in common use) to describe fairer than average Jamaicans. The thing is, the term would not have come into use if it wasn’t for the fact that originally among the slaves taken to Jamaica were a good number of fair Ibo’s among dark skinned Ibo’. Ibo are the lightest population of the Bantu populations, in fact, the term for Whites was Oyibo, which comes from Onye Ibo, Which means "Like an Ibo" Last edited by Salsassin on Sat 30 Jun 2007 23:12; edited 2 times in total Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Sat 30 Jun 2007 23:07    Post subject: BillyMadison79 wrote: Ivory colored Black person is an oxymoron IMO, unless ofcourse your talking about Black Albinos.But if we're talking about regular Blacks who were not born with the Albino disease than having an Ivory complexion is not possible at all. As the term is ethnic too, any person with predominant European ancestry who doesn't tan well who identifies as Black is such if Ivory is being used as a simile. Back to top BillyMadison79 Experienced User Joined: 01 Mar 2007 {Posts: 133 } Posted: Sat 30 Jun 2007 23:16    Post subject: Ivory complexion in non Albino groups is mostly common in people of European descent/predominantley European descent and also among many North East Asians like North Chinamen, Korean, and Japs. Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Sat 30 Jun 2007 23:34    Post subject: BillyMadison79 wrote: Ivory complexion in non Albino groups is mostly common in people of European descent/predominantley European descent and also among many North East Asians like North Chinamen, Korean, and Japs. Yep, including those born in a Black ethnicity. Back to top pianoplayer111 Wizard Joined: 16 May 2007 {Posts: 429 } Posted: Sat 30 Jun 2007 23:34    Post subject: Hi, Phil...I don't know where you grew up but I'm with the person who mentioned the girl second from the left side as being "redboned". She isn't light-skinned but she does have a reddish tint to her light brown skin. I'm paler than the one on the right in the photo, a LOT paler. My skin is white with no warmth to it, except a bit of ruddy color in my cheeks now and then. Back to top Wiingashk83 New User Joined: 29 Jun 2007 {Posts: 10 } Location: Ypsilanti, MI, United States Posted: Sun 01 Jul 2007 02:07    Post subject: Just because there is a red bone heritage foundation does not mean that 'all' red bones look like that. I feel that since skin tone has very few DNA markers dedicated to it, that it is the mixture of the person, NOT what they happen to look like. Using pictures from a specific group of ANY type really does nothing to make an argument. Also, I fail to see any proof that red bones have 6 percent African admixture. This almost feels like a red bone 'paper bag test' the way the argument is going... Course, I wouldn't use something that was historically used as an insult to name my 'type' as it were. I'm just a mixed Gaeilge Aniyunwiya/Anishaabeg putting in her cents. Just my POV! Wiingashk Back to top fwsweet Administrator Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5381 } Location: Palm Coast, FL Posted: Sun 01 Jul 2007 02:21    Post subject: Wiingashk83 wrote: Just because there is a red bone heritage foundation does not mean that 'all' red bones look like that. Which message here implied any such thing? Please provide the message number. The photos at the RHF website show a broad spectrum of appearance, including one lecturer who looks Black while her daughter looks White. Wiingashk83 wrote: I fail to see any proof that red bones have 6 percent African admixture. See the paper that Alvie Walt gave at the 2006 conference. Here are his slides and handouts. Wiingashk83 wrote: This almost feels like a red bone 'paper bag test' the way the argument is going... Please clarify. What do you mean by this statement? There is no distinction within the Redbones community based on phenotype. What are you suggesting? Wiingashk83 wrote: Course, I wouldn't use something that was historically used as an insult to name my 'type' as it were. Virtually every ethnic designation from German and Irish to the maroons (Seminole, Metis, Croatan, Melungeon, etc.) was once an insult. That is how ethnicities are formed. The mainstream segregates them and applies an insulting label. The minority embraces the label and uses it to define a political voting bloc that thereby acquires political power. Politicial power (and one other trait) leads to acceptance under the ever-expanding canopy of Whiteness. If you are interested in this, the best introduction to current thinking on ethnicity formation is Werner Sollors, The Invention of Ethnicity (New York: Oxford University, 1989). The best historical summary is Werner Sollors, Theories of Ethnicity: A Classical Reader (Washington Square NY: New York University, 1996). The best reference (to look up the story of any ethnicity, not to buy) is Stephan Thernstrom, Ann Orlov, and Oscar Handlin, eds. Harvard Encyclopedia of American Ethnic Groups (Cambridge MA: Belknap, 1980), available in the reference section of most large libraries. Back to top fwsweet Administrator Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5381 } Location: Palm Coast, FL Posted: Sun 01 Jul 2007 02:59    Post subject: Salsassin wrote: I think it may be a case of convergent terms. The other term that pre-dates redone was red igbo used in the islands. ... Yes. As I understand their history, the redbones of the Cane River (Natchitoches) region migrated there from the delta to escape Jim Crow. They migrated to the delta from South Carolina during Reconstruction. They first appear historically in Barbadian South Carolina during colonial times. At that time they were still called "Red Ibos." I am not sure at which point of their wanderings their name got shortened. Back to top Wiingashk83 New User Joined: 29 Jun 2007 {Posts: 10 } Location: Ypsilanti, MI, United States Posted: Sun 01 Jul 2007 03:16    Post subject: [quote="fwsweet"] Which message here implied any such thing? Please provide the message number. The photos at the RHF website show a broad spectrum of appearance, including one lecturer who looks Black while her daughter looks White.[quote="fwsweet"] I disagree with your statement that she looks black, and neither does her daughter look white. I apologize if you got the wrong idea by my statement. It seemed to me, in my humble opinion, that since you had posted or referred to the same photos at least twice, that you were implying that red bones looked a specific way, as a result that most of the people in the photos looked very similar. [quote="fwsweet"]See the paper that Alvie Walt gave at the 2006 conference. Here are his slides and handouts.[quote="fwsweet"] This is not proof that is complete to me, as this is one source from your organization. Personally, if I were trying to prove something, which I am not, I would give a few different sources to attempt to prove my claim. However, this is an interesting paper. [quote="fwsweet"] Wiingashk83 wrote: This almost feels like a red bone 'paper bag test' the way the argument is going... Please clarify. What do you mean by this statement? There is no distinction within the Redbones community based on phenotype. What are you suggesting?[quote="fwsweet"] I felt as though there was a lot of arguing over which skin tone you have to be a red bone. It simply reminded me of something from my own experience, that's all. fwsweet wrote: Wiingashk83 wrote: Course, I wouldn't use something that was historically used as an insult to name my 'type' as it were. Virtually every ethnic designation from German and Irish to the maroons (Seminole, Metis, Croatan, Melungeon, etc.) was once an insult. That is how ethnicities are formed. The mainstream segregates them and applies an insulting label. The minority embraces the label and uses it to define a political voting bloc that thereby acquires political power. Politicial power (and one other trait) leads to acceptance under the ever-expanding canopy of Whiteness. If you are interested in this, I recommend Werner Sollors, The Invention of Ethnicity (New York: Oxford University, 1989). [quote="fwsweet"] First, thank you for the link. I may check this out. Second, neither German or Irish stem from insults, they are simply language, and translation based. I am not so sure about the term Melungeon, however...although I did not think that Metis, Croatan, or Seminole stemmed from insults. Most N.A. names come from translations of tribal names. A few examples of this are Anishnaabeg=Ojibwe and Aniyunwiya=Cherokee. Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Sun 01 Jul 2007 03:36    Post subject: German stems from the Latins first encountering them as allies fo the Gauls. They were called Kindred, Germani to the Gauls. They got stuck with the name. Irish is a derivation of their goddess, Eirinn. Interestingly, another Irish goddess, Brighit, is also an exalted Lwa in Haitian Voudoun. Maman Brigitte. Quote: Maman Brigitte, surprisingly enough for a lwa of a primarily African tradition, is British in origin, descended from Brigid/St. Brigit, the Celtic "triple goddess" of poetry, smithcraft, and healing. She must have come to Haiti in the hearts of deported Scottish and Irish indentured servants. There is even a song we sing in ceremonies which goes "Maman Brigitte, li soti nan anglete", Maman Brigitte, she comes from England...'. Back to top sagascend Moderator-at-Large Joined: 17 Jun 2006 {Posts: 2418 } Posted: Sun 01 Jul 2007 22:07    Post subject: Phil345 wrote: pianoplayer111 wrote: I've had one or two black people describe me as "red" or "redbone" or "yellow"...none of which are true descriptions of my color or how I look. I'm very pale with visible blue veins beneath my skin. " Thats what a "redbone" is...at least where I grew up. Example: The girl second from the right would be a "redbone". The very lovely and sophisticated lady in question would be called "high yellow" by my more articulate family members in Louisiana. Sorry, couldn't help myself - I'm an AKA. Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Sun 01 Jul 2007 23:37    Post subject: LOL Salmon Pink and Apple Green. Back to top Powell Guru Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2462 } Posted: Mon 02 Jul 2007 12:45    Post subject: Finding Faith - biracial Buddhist Nun Finding Faith - biracial Buddhist Nun I note the contradiction in not questioning the "blackness" of a dark mulatto who was reared by white identified people but self-identifies as black compared to the demonization of people who do the opposite, a la "Imitation of Life." http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/110413.html Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> Racial Identity and The Multiracial Experience All times are GMT Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next Page 4 of 5 Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group