There is that statistic again... Yes, upwards of 90% of black men are married to black women. However, which kind of black woman is the true question.
Are you saying that most "married" black women have light skin?
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A black woman like this;
or a black woman like this;
Black men could marry either one, and still proclaim to have a black wife.
I always find it odd that in these types of discussions, the debaters almost never show two people with similar looks.
Jill Scott
and
India Arie.
Who would a black man be more likely to date?
What if you put
Alicia Keys
next to
Kerry Washington?
Zoe Saldaña
with
Gabrielle Union
I know black guys who would jump over Alicia Keys for Kerry Washington. India Arie for all of these girls. Again, this is only from my personal experience. My brother, on the other hand, has dated white and biracial girls his entire life.
I don't think one blanket statement could be made one way or the other--especially when you start mixing nationalities. I have no idea what a South African or Ethiopian or Ghanaian man prefers.
1. Alek wek may not be typical of most west africans, but she is close, therefore, she is a relatively good example of a "negro" phenotype.
2. I observe that most black music videos girls, female tv personalities, female magazine models, female tv ad models, and famous actresses, are (a) colored in appearance and often very light, and (b) I deduce they are almost certainly mulatto in ancestry. This implies that negro-women are neither what blacks, nor whites, want to see. The likely reason is that they are not considered attractive.
3. It doesnt matter how many people you personally know who love negro women, the preponderance of evidence negates your personal experience for conclusions which are on the national level.
1. Alek wek may not be typical of most west africans, but she is close, therefore, she is a relatively good example of a "negro" phenotype.
Alek Wek is EAST African. Sudanese Dinka. And no, she is not typical of WEST Africans.
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2. I observe that most black music videos girls, female tv personalities, female magazine models, female tv ad models, and famous actresses, are (a) colored in appearance and often very light, and (b) I deduce they are almost certainly mulatto in ancestry. This implies that negro-women are neither what blacks, nor whites, want to see. The likely reason is that they are not considered attractive.
There is a media bias in this country, absolutely. That bias does not reflect marriage patterns.
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3. It doesnt matter how many people you personally know who love negro women, the preponderance of evidence negates your personal experience for conclusions which are on the national level.
And I will wait for you to post any evidence of marriage patterns at a national level to claim anything.
Yes she IS typical of west africans! Just because she can be dissociated from them by her phenotype doesnt mean she does not overall have a very similar appearance. The same could be said for an eastern european being typical of western europeans. Overall they are.
Also, I didnt say anything about marriage, except that you cannot make sweeping judgements based on your personal experience. I was talking specifically about attractiveness.
Furthermore, what marriage patterns do you mean? Be specific.
Yes she IS typical of west africans! Just because she can be dissociated from them by her phenotype doesnt mean she does not overall have a very similar appearance. The same could be said for an eastern european being typical of western europeans. Overall they are.
Again, if you have no clue on phenotypes, don't make opinions. Dinka do not look like Bantu. Nilotic people may be dark skinned, but that doesn't mean they are the same as Bantu.
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Also, I didnt say anything about marriage, except that you cannot make sweeping judgements based on your personal experience. I was talking specifically about attractiveness.
And marriage and choice of life partner plays into what men find attractive.
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Furthermore, what marriage patterns do you mean? Be specific.
African American men with African American women.
Media personalities tend to choose lighter, but the general populace tends to date the spectrum. It may be who the elbows are rubbing with. I did not see the same trend with AA polititians as with media personalities.
Yes she IS typical of west africans! Just because she can be dissociated from them by her phenotype doesnt mean she does not overall have a very similar appearance. The same could be said for an eastern european being typical of western europeans. Overall they are.
Also, I didnt say anything about marriage, except that you cannot make sweeping judgements based on your personal experience. I was talking specifically about attractiveness.
Furthermore, what marriage patterns do you mean? Be specific.
Again, if you have no clue on phenotypes, don't make opinions. Dinka do not look like Bantu. Nilotic people may be dark skinned, but that doesn't mean they are the same as Bantu.
Prove it. You love to post pictures Sal, so go ahead and prove your point. If infact you are correct, your point will be made and mine defeated in one move. But dont worry, you will only show me to be correct.
Prove it. I say she does, you say she doesnt. Either you provide evidence, or I do, or we both retract our claims. If you dont provide evidence, I will not either, and we both have to retract our claims. If you provide it, then you will show me to be correct, I am fairly sure.
Again, if you have no clue on phenotypes, don't make opinions. Dinka do not look like Bantu. Nilotic people may be dark skinned, but that doesn't mean they are the same as Bantu.
Prove it. You love to post pictures Sal, so go ahead and prove your point. If infact you are correct, your point will be made and mine defeated in one move. But dont worry, you will only show me to be correct.
LOL. It would be proving the negative. It is up to you to post a West African Bantu woman with features like that of Alek Wek. There are similarities, but Regional variations do exist. Most West Africans are not as dark as the Dinka,
Again, if you have no clue on phenotypes, don't make opinions. Dinka do not look like Bantu. Nilotic people may be dark skinned, but that doesn't mean they are the same as Bantu.
Prove it. You love to post pictures Sal, so go ahead and prove your point. If infact you are correct, your point will be made and mine defeated in one move. But dont worry, you will only show me to be correct.
LOL. It would be proving the negative. It is up to you to post a West African Bantu woman with features like that of Alek Wek. There are similarities, but Regional variations do exist. Most West Africans are not as dark as the Dinka,
No true. The correct claim on your part is: "it is not clear whether or not she looks typical of west africans".
By making a definate claim, you incurr the burden of proof as much as I do. The positive-burden rule actually has an equally logical corrallary. The difference is, while you cannot for sure prove a negative, you can provide very good evidence.
Again, if you have no clue on phenotypes, don't make opinions. Dinka do not look like Bantu. Nilotic people may be dark skinned, but that doesn't mean they are the same as Bantu.
Prove it. You love to post pictures Sal, so go ahead and prove your point. If infact you are correct, your point will be made and mine defeated in one move. But dont worry, you will only show me to be correct.
LOL. It would be proving the negative. It is up to you to post a West African Bantu woman with features like that of Alek Wek. There are similarities, but Regional variations do exist. Most West Africans are not as dark as the Dinka,
No true. The correct claim on your part is: "it is not clear whether or not she looks typical of west africans".
By making a definate claim, you incurr the burden of proof as much as I do. The positive-burden rule actually has an equally logical corrallary. The difference is, while you cannot for sure prove a negative, you can provide very good evidence.
Therefore, you need to do it.
Nice try but incorrect. I have stated that the typical West African does not look like Alek Wek. This was a response to your claim that she does. I can post a ton of pictures of West Africans that do not look like her. But there is no way I can post everyone. You, on the other hand just have to post a few samples of West African women that look like her.
But you are still making a positive claim, thus you must prove the validity of your position. It doesnt matter that you cannot prove a negative, you dont have to. You only have to show that she is in fact different, from typical faces of west africans. Daunting yes, impossible, no.
The correct claim on your part, should be:
"it cannot be said that west africans look like alek wek"
Would you like to change your position or go for the 10,000 dollars?
But you are still making a positive claim, thus you must prove the validity of your position. It doesnt matter that you cannot prove a negative, you dont have to. You only have to show that she is in fact different, from typical faces of west africans. Daunting yes, impossible, no.
The correct claim on your part, should be:
"it cannot be said that west africans look like alek wek"
Would you like to change your position or go for the 10,000 dollars?
Not close
Not close
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She is closer (not quite the same), but no evidence that she is West African.
http://www.iac-ciaf.com/
Let's look at what populations where brought over the most to the Americas. We will look first by country and then by the largest ethnicities.
"During the trans-Atlantic slave trade, slaves were taken in greatest numbers from the ‘Slave Coast’ (Benin and Nigeria), West Central Africa (Zaire, Congo, and Angola), and the ‘Gold Coast’ (Ghana)."
http://www.econ.ubc.ca/nnunn/empirical_slavery.pdf
If you look at the chart to be more specific, the ones that imported more than 100,000:
3,607,020 Angola
1,614,793 Ghana
1,406,728 Nigeria
759,468 Dem Rep of Congo
456,583 Benin
382,378 Mozambique
350,149 Guinea
331,748 Mali
289,634 Togo
278,195 Senegal
180,752 Guinea-Bissau
167,201 Burkina Faso
Now I am just going to look at the first four that account for 72% of African slaves brought over to the Americas
In Congo the largest group are the Kongo or Bakongo
A large range of features. And overall the average is lighter than that of the dinka. Overall the features are different from the dinka. (Some Yoruba looked somewhat similar) And in general, Alek Wek a East African Dinka is hardly a good representative of the looks of the majority of West Africans and especially African slaves taken to America.
I disagree. You said that some of the faces were not similar at all, I disagree. They are similar.
Oval eyes, dark skin, thick lips, and a wide, long nose, and very curly hair. Thats all thats needed to produce a relatively similar phenotype.
Are the dinka distinict looking? Yes.
Can you tell them apart easily? Yes.
To the trained eye do they look like west africans? No.
But do they look generally like west africans as an approximation????
Absolutely.
You are creating a strawman and its annoying. I keep telling you, they generally look similar. You keep saying: "no, they are NOT EXACTLY THE SAME AND CAN EASILY BE TOLD APART". Well thats fine, but its not what I said. You need to start arguing my point, not yours.
So, again: Alek Wek generally looks like west africans because they share the most basic features in common. She, however, as can other people from her tribe and related peoples, can be easily told apart by anyone who looks carefuly. Nevertheless, she is a good approxiamation, when speaking on a regional scale.
Remember, I said eastern europeans generally look like europeans from aroudn the continent ( well, let me say except for the far south. ). That doesnt mean they cant be told apart easily. Seriously.
I disagree. You said that some of the faces were not similar at all, I disagree. They are similar.
Oval eyes, dark skin, thick lips, and a wide, long nose, and very curly hair. Thats all thats needed to produce a relatively similar phenotype.
Are the dinka distinict looking? Yes.
Can you tell them apart easily? Yes.
To the trained eye do they look like west africans? No.
But do they look generally like west africans as an approximation????
Absolutely.
You are creating a strawman and its annoying. I keep telling you, they generally look similar. You keep saying: "no, they are NOT EXACTLY THE SAME AND CAN EASILY BE TOLD APART". Well thats fine, but its not what I said. You need to start arguing my point, not yours.
So, again: Alek Wek generally looks like west africans because they share the most basic features in common. She, however, as can other people from her tribe and related peoples, can be easily told apart by anyone who looks carefuly. Nevertheless, she is a good approxiamation, when speaking on a regional scale.
Remember, I said eastern europeans generally look like europeans from aroudn the continent ( well, let me say except for the far south. ). That doesnt mean they cant be told apart easily. Seriously.
If you have a discerning eye for features, body type and skin color Alek Wek looks exactly like what she is: East African, specifically of the Dinka. Manute Bol (sp?) has a similar look although I can't confirm that he is also Dinka. He is from southern Sudan though.
What is the "regional" approximation of a sub Saharan phenotype? For that matter, what is the "regional" approximation of a European phenotype? What is the general, similar look that Europeans share that Arabs and some East Indians do not? Can you be sure that you could pick out an Italian from an Iranian? A Russian from a Mongolian? An Albanian from a Dravidian?
The Eurasian continent is as regionally specific as the African continent. Just like there is a Mediterranean "look" there is a Nordic "look." There is a "Bantu" look and a "Khoisan" look. The only reason why it seems normal to collapse them is due to racialization.
Why is it that "White" folks look the same and "Black folks" do too to some (USAmericans)? To me it is a direct result of being raised in a society that aggregates very different phenotypes into two huge groups. It's not because they "really look the same."
I disagree. You said that some of the faces were not similar at all, I disagree. They are similar.
Only to someone who has no clue about African features. These same people claim Melanesians look African as well.
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Oval eyes, dark skin, thick lips, and a wide, long nose, and very curly hair. Thats all thats needed to produce a relatively similar phenotype.
Wrong. And Wek does not have a long nose, and she has a semi epicanthic fold.
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Are the dinka distinict looking? Yes.
Can you tell them apart easily? Yes.
To the trained eye do they look like west africans? No.
Exactly
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But do they look generally like west africans as an approximation????Absolutely.
Only to someone who has no clue about African features. These same people claim Melanesians look African as well.
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You are creating a strawman and its annoying. I keep telling you, they generally look similar. You keep saying: "no, they are NOT EXACTLY THE SAME AND CAN EASILY BE TOLD APART". Well thats fine, but its not what I said. You need to start arguing my point, not yours.
You stated: "1. Alek wek may not be typical of most west africans, but she is close, therefore, she is a relatively good example of a "negro" phenotype." I disagree. There is no "negro" phenotype. Just a generic stereotype. And Alek Wek is not representative of West Africans.
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So, again: Alek Wek generally looks like west africans because they share the most basic features in common. She, however, as can other people from her tribe and related peoples, can be easily told apart by anyone who looks carefuly. Nevertheless, she is a good approxiamation, when speaking on a regional scale.
As pointed out above. No.
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Remember, I said eastern europeans generally look like europeans from aroudn the continent ( well, let me say except for the far south. ). That doesnt mean they cant be told apart easily. Seriously.
Seriously. Using a Slavic woman to represent all of Europe wouldn't be very accurate either. And Europe went through a genetic bottleneck that Africa didn't.
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