Black Brazil seeks a better future
By Robert Plummer
BBC News, Sao Paulo
A university named after a 17th-Century rebel slave leader in Brazil is at the forefront of a controversy over the country's complex racial identity.
Unipalmares, as it is known for short, was founded in 2003 as a private college in the run-down Sao Paulo district of Luz.
With its utilitarian classrooms and its array of desktop computers, it could be any Brazilian academic institution.
But uniquely, it reserves 50% of its places for black students, reflecting the fact that roughly half the country's 183 million people have African slaves as forefathers.
The university's rector, Jose Vicente, says its aim is to provide higher education for underprivileged Brazilians in general, but with particular emphasis on black people.
"It has become a reference point as a place where minorities can have the opportunity for access to higher education, taking into account that this access is still very limited in our country," he says.
"A large part of the public, if they didn't have this opportunity, would find it difficult to study elsewhere."
Affirmative action
Brazil has more people with black ancestry than any other country outside Africa. But there are very few black people in the higher echelons of society, including government, Congress and top posts in the civil service and armed forces.
Black people remain socially disadvantaged in Brazil. Last year, a UN Development Programme report found that a huge economic gulf existed in the country between the black and white population.
However, racial mixing has been taking place in Brazil throughout its 500-year history. As a result, many of its citizens regard themselves as neither black nor white, but something in between.
For some, Unipalmares is a chance to change the fact that most black Brazilians remain at the bottom of the heap in the country's rigidly hierarchical society.
For others, it is a threat to Brazil's very nature.
They see it as an attempt to replace the country's hallowed notions of "racial democracy" with US-style affirmative action, polarising the population and forcing millions of people to choose between being black or white.
The issue has come to the fore in Brazil recently because of attempts in Congress to compel other universities to introduce racial quotas.
Efforts are also under way, with the backing of President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, to bring in a statute of racial equality that would extend the same quota system to civil service jobs, the private sector and even television.
Evening classes
Mr Vicente hopes that the 1,000 students at Unipalmares will become the managers and entrepreneurs of tomorrow.
The university already has partnerships with three banks - HSBC, Bradesco and Itau - that offer internships to Unipalmares students.
However, all its lessons are evening classes, because its students work during the day to support themselves.
Clayton Amaral Simoes, aged 29, is in his first year of study. His employment record includes manning the cash desk at a bakery and making pizzas at Pizza Hut.
He now works at a call centre run by Atento do Brasil, a company owned by the Spanish telecoms firm Telefonica.
He hopes that his course in financial administration will help him get a better job in the same line of work.
"I'd like to do something involving team leadership," he says. "What I learn here, I can use in the firm - it's great. I wouldn't have the chance to study at all if it weren't for this place."
'Two-colour nation'
A new best-selling book by journalist Ali Kamel, entitled We're Not Racists, makes the case against racial quotas.
He points out that according to government statistics, 42% of Brazilians do not identify themselves as black or white, but as mixed-race.
He argues that Brazilians come in "a whole rainbow of colours" and rejects the idea that anyone non-white should automatically be labelled black.
His book is described on the front cover as "a reaction to those who want to turn us into a two-colour nation" - a remark that draws scorn from Mr Vicente.
"Brazilian society is effectively a two-colour one. From the point of view of privileges, access and social status, it always was," he says.
"If you look at all the areas of prestige and social value in Brazilian society, it's a two-colour system, because the whites are at the top and everyone else is at the bottom.
"This is no longer sustainable, because those underneath are demanding change. The country will explode if you carry on maintaining these privileges for very few people in just one economic class, while the vast majority of Brazilians have no access to any of these privileged positions."
Physical appearance
In other Brazilian seats of learning, the argument over racial quotas continues. Peter Fry, an anthropologist at the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro (UFRJ), regrets that Brazil has not tried to tackle racism with publicity campaigns, as it has done with Aids.
"I always thought that Brazil could resolve the issue in a different way, without putting race into the letter of the law, which I think is an immense danger," he told the Folha de S Paulo newspaper.
Antonio Sergio Alfredo Guimaraes, a sociologist at the University of Sao Paulo (USP), believes the statute of racial equality is trying to regulate too many aspects of life in one go and has not been properly thought out.
But he thinks affirmative action can work if people's own perceptions of their colour are taken at face value.
"What these policies do is accept self-declaration as a reality. In that sense, there's no problem. But if people start setting up tribunals and commissions to decide people's colour, then it'll all go haywire."
For the first time since Brazil abolished slavery in 1888, legislation to narrow the social gap between black and white people is now a real possibility. But if the law is not carefully drafted, it could end up doing more harm than good.
Antonio Sergio Alfredo Guimaraes, a sociologist at the University of Sao Paulo (USP), believes the statute of racial equality is trying to regulate too many aspects of life in one go and has not been properly thought out.
But he thinks affirmative action can work if people's own perceptions of their colour are taken at face value.
"What these policies do is accept self-declaration as a reality. In that sense, there's no problem. But if people start setting up tribunals and commissions to decide people's colour, then it'll all go haywire."
This means conceivably that someone like actress Camila Pitanga who considers herself black, but looks like many Brazilans who see themselves as white or non-black, could benefit from some quota.
Camila Pitanga:
I can't imagine she would suffer from any color predjudice in Brazil.
Realistically, enforcement of a quota system will lead to tribunals to determine who is or isn't black.
Since "black" and "underprivileged" are so heavily correlated in Brazil I don't know why they don't just do economics-based affirmative action and target the poorest of the poor. Wouldn't virtually the same outcome occur, that the people who need help would receive it (likely blacks)?
Antonio Sergio Alfredo Guimaraes, a sociologist at the University of Sao Paulo (USP), believes the statute of racial equality is trying to regulate too many aspects of life in one go and has not been properly thought out.
But he thinks affirmative action can work if people's own perceptions of their colour are taken at face value.
"What these policies do is accept self-declaration as a reality. In that sense, there's no problem. But if people start setting up tribunals and commissions to decide people's colour, then it'll all go haywire."
This means conceivably that someone like actress Camila Pitanga who considers herself black, but looks like many Brazilans who see themselves as white or non-black, could benefit from some quota.
Camila Pitanga:
I can't imagine she would suffer from any color predjudice in Brazil.
Realistically, enforcement of a quota system will lead to tribunals to determine who is or isn't black.
Yeah, like i said, they are have people who are supposed to eyeball pictures now.
Quote:
For instance, while UERJ uses self-definition as its criterion, the Universidade de Brasília (UnB—University of Brasilia) relies on photographs, which a university committee examines to determine who is of African descent.
To a degree I agree. It is not only what ancestry you have but if your looks cause discrimination. But where do you draw the line? It's still an arbitrary decision. Do you run the pictures through a double blind test with Whites to see if they are selected against?
Since "black" and "underprivileged" are so heavily correlated in Brazil I don't know why they don't just do economics-based affirmative action and target the poorest of the poor. Wouldn't virtually the same outcome occur, that the people who need help would receive it (likely blacks)?
I agree to a point...I think for things like university admissions and such this would be great; it will disproportionately benefit those of significant visible African descent who comprise a large percentage of the truly disadvantaged and benefit the poor who aren't very African looking (and yes there are lots of them in Brazil). However, for such things as employment in professions and what could be considered white collar work, I'd support taking race or color into account, along with tackling employment adds that subtlety make it clear that the too black need not apply.( For example there are ads that still demand that the person have "good appearance", which is code for white-looking.) An educated Brazilian who looks like Denzel Washington, Wesley Snipes, or Will Smith will have a hard way to go in securing employment commensurate with his talents and education.
Since "black" and "underprivileged" are so heavily correlated in Brazil I don't know why they don't just do economics-based affirmative action and target the poorest of the poor. Wouldn't virtually the same outcome occur, that the people who need help would receive it (likely blacks)?
I agree to a point...I think for things like university admissions and such this would be great; it will disproportionately benefit those of significant visible African descent who comprise a large percentage of the truly disadvantaged and benefit the poor who aren't very African looking (and yes there are lots of them in Brazil). However, for such things as employment in professions and what could be considered white collar work, I'd support taking race or color into account, along with tackling employment adds that subtlety make it clear that the too black need not apply.( For example there are ads that still demand that the person have "good appearance", which is code for white-looking.) An educated Brazilian who looks like Denzel Washington, Wesley Snipes, or Will Smith will have a hard way to go in securing employment commensurate with his talents and education.
I'd think "good appearance" would be more in public service jobs versus White colar.
Since "black" and "underprivileged" are so heavily correlated in Brazil I don't know why they don't just do economics-based affirmative action and target the poorest of the poor. Wouldn't virtually the same outcome occur, that the people who need help would receive it (likely blacks)?
I agree to a point...I think for things like university admissions and such this would be great; it will disproportionately benefit those of significant visible African descent who comprise a large percentage of the truly disadvantaged and benefit the poor who aren't very African looking (and yes there are lots of them in Brazil). However, for such things as employment in professions and what could be considered white collar work, I'd support taking race or color into account, along with tackling employment adds that subtlety make it clear that the too black need not apply.( For example there are ads that still demand that the person have "good appearance", which is code for white-looking.) An educated Brazilian who looks like Denzel Washington, Wesley Snipes, or Will Smith will have a hard way to go in securing employment commensurate with his talents and education.
That makes sense. But it is difficult to change such behaviors without using quotas (either in the applicant pool or new hires) because most Brazilians probably can't wrap their heads around the concept of "good appearance" existing compatibly with dark or nonwhite-looking without a little "help" (coercion). They would also do well to put objective performance measures in place so that nonwhite new hires are not discriminated against by being judged by a different set of standards and proven to be "unfit."
It's interesting that affirmative action in the U.S did a lot to improve the employment experiences of Whites, especially White women. While the good ol' boy network will always exist, HR departments in public corporations can only get so creative. As a result, more people in general are now aware of job opportunities that exist within companies.
Since "black" and "underprivileged" are so heavily correlated in Brazil I don't know why they don't just do economics-based affirmative action and target the poorest of the poor. Wouldn't virtually the same outcome occur, that the people who need help would receive it (likely blacks)?
There is an article in the Miami Herald series in another thread on AfroLatins about Brazil. Its states that, based on census stats, the gap between educated whites and blacks is LARGER than it is between those who are less educated. Clearly then we can infer that color (race) has impact that is in addition to social barriers of class. "Blacks" face barriers of color in addition to the barriers faced by the poor of all groups.
I'd think "good appearance" would be more in public service jobs versus White colar.
Brazilian census stats (as described in the Miami Herald series suggests that education doesnt begin to close the gap in earnings of "blacks" realtive to "whites" in Brazil as it does in the USA. In fact the gap increases. Maybe this is because of the "good appearance" criteria which then foprces most educated blacks to work in the public sector which in most countries pays less than does the private sector. We can conclude therefore that while education does allow blacks entry into the middle class color still largely determines their success relative to similarly educated whites.
Since "black" and "underprivileged" are so heavily correlated in Brazil I don't know why they don't just do economics-based affirmative action and target the poorest of the poor. Wouldn't virtually the same outcome occur, that the people who need help would receive it (likely blacks)?
I agree to a point...I think for things like university admissions and such this would be great; it will disproportionately benefit those of significant visible African descent who comprise a large percentage of the truly disadvantaged and benefit the poor who aren't very African looking (and yes there are lots of them in Brazil). However, for such things as employment in professions and what could be considered white collar work, I'd support taking race or color into account, along with tackling employment adds that subtlety make it clear that the too black need not apply.( For example there are ads that still demand that the person have "good appearance", which is code for white-looking.) An educated Brazilian who looks like Denzel Washington, Wesley Snipes, or Will Smith will have a hard way to go in securing employment commensurate with his talents and education.
That makes sense. But it is difficult to change such behaviors without using quotas (either in the applicant pool or new hires) because most Brazilians probably can't wrap their heads around the concept of "good appearance" existing compatibly with dark or nonwhite-looking without a little "help" (coercion).
I was supporting quotas or something similar (patterned to fit the Brazilian reality) in the professions or white collar work. I'm also partial to something similar in jobs that require less education but involve dealing with the public: working in hotels, customer service, etc.
There are professionals of visible African ancestry in Brazil. I definitely saw them while I was down there and the magazine "Revista Raca" focuses on black Brazilians beyond those who are athletes and entertainers. However, they do face obstacles that I don't think your average black professional faces in the U.S.
I'd think "good appearance" would be more in public service jobs versus White colar.
Brazilian census stats (as described in the Miami Herald series suggests that education doesnt begin to close the gap in earnings of "blacks" realtive to "whites" in Brazil as it does in the USA. In fact the gap increases. Maybe this is because of the "good appearance" criteria which then foprces most educated blacks to work in the public sector which in most countries pays less than does the private sector. We can conclude therefore that while education does allow blacks entry into the middle class color still largely determines their success relative to similarly educated whites.
According to an acquaintance of mine who is black, Brazilian and a professional (he's an attorney), the "good appearance" requirement does play a role. How much of one has yet to be quantified, but he had many ancedotes to tell me.
Interestingly enough, I came across some information claiming that black Brazilians (however that's defined) are better educated and have more opportunities as politicians in the South of the county which is overwhelmingly European. Can't remember where though. For example, the former governor of the state of Rio Grande Do Sul, Alceu Colares (sp) was a person of visible African ancestry; he may have been the first in recent memory.
Again, class and resources also play a role. Blacks, even during Jim Crowe had more access to education and resources than Brazilians do.
Salsassin I really want to hear your analysis as to why, according to the Brazil census, income disparities between blacks/pardos and whites INCREASE with levels of education rather than decrease as one would expect. Clearly something else is going on other than classism. One would expect that educated Afrodescendants in Brazil would be better able to negotiate their way and overcome the barriers of colorism. While I am sure they do reach the middle class it appears as if COLOR determines their outcomes as one cannot claim that class does given their access to education.
why, according to the Brazil census, income disparities between blacks/pardos and whites INCREASE with levels of education rather than decrease as one would expect.
I would be interested in finding the original source for this datum. (Where the newspaper got it from.) The most recent study I know of that draws evidence of colorism from the Brazilian census was George Reid Andrews, “Racial Inequality in Brazil and the United States: A Statistical Comparison,” Journal of Social History 26, no. 2 (1992): 229-63. If this is the study that they used, then the answer to Caribj's question was published in the study itself.
Again, class and resources also play a role. Blacks, even during Jim Crowe had more access to education and resources than Brazilians do.
Salsassin I really want to hear your analysis as to why, according to the Brazil census, income disparities between blacks/pardos and whites INCREASE with levels of education rather than decrease as one would expect. Clearly something else is going on other than classism. One would expect that educated Afrodescendants in Brazil would be better able to negotiate their way and overcome the barriers of colorism. While I am sure they do reach the middle class it appears as if COLOR determines their outcomes as one cannot claim that class does given their access to education.
When you make more money, what do you do? You try to raise in class. When you raise in a company who do you interact with? if those people are from a higher class, and racism plays a bigger role the higher up in class you go, then how can that be related to racism overall? It is directly related to class and how racism occurs in higher classes.
[When you make more money, what do you do? You try to raise in class. When you raise in a company who do you interact with? if those people are from a higher class, and racism plays a bigger role the higher up in class you go, then how can that be related to racism overall? It is directly related to class and how racism occurs in higher classes.
In the USA the gap in income between blacks and whites REDUCES with increasing levels of education. The Brazil census indicates the opposite in that nation. Now I think that we all can agree that the USA has a definite history of racism, yet as blacks become more educated this education seems to mitigate its effects to some degree. Yet this does not appear happen in Brazil based on the census.
I question why is it class when it seems clear that middle class "blacks"/pardos in Brazil seem to have a tougher time keeping up with their white peers than do their less educated brethren. Note that these are people who have broken through the class divide by virtue of being college educated so they shouldnt face the problems of poverty. Seemingly there are forms of institutional racism in Brazil that middle class blacks/pardos have to face that their poorer brethren dont.
The interesting point is that class appears plays a bigger role in the USA in explaining the socio-economic status of blacks. Interesting because the USA prodes itself in being a "classless" society. Color in Brazil seems to be more important in explaining the opportunities available to middle class blacks (they are already middle class by virtue of their education) because they lag behind their similarly educated white peers more than uneducated blacks lag behind equivalent white groups.
Are you suggesting that upper middle class whites in Brazil are more racist/colorist than they are in the USA? Because if they arent then the impact of education should be similar in both societies. Apparently it isnt.
Are you suggesting that upper middle class whites in Brazil are more racist/colorist than they are in the USA? Because if they arent then the impact of education should be similar in both societies. Apparently it isnt.
To a degree yes, IMO, or at least they are simply unwilling to tolerate the presence of people unlike themselves in the settings they dominate.
Posted: Wed 11 Jul 2007 22:58 Post subject: Upper class Latin Americans
G-Man wrote:
caribj wrote:
Salsassin wrote:
how racism occurs in higher classes.
Are you suggesting that upper middle class whites in Brazil are more racist/colorist than they are in the USA? Because if they arent then the impact of education should be similar in both societies. Apparently it isnt.
To a degree yes, IMO, or at least they are simply unwilling to tolerate the presence of people unlike themselves in the settings they dominate.
Haven't you noticed that non-whites in general (whether in the USA or other countries) are far more at ease in expressing their prejudices? A "white" American or European will most likely be silent or feel guilty about his prejudices, but his non-white counterpart (I include Latin Americans in this category) will have no guilt whatsoever.
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