The Study of Racialism Discussion of U.S. Racialism Please read The Rules before posting.    FAQ   Search     Register     Log in  ' African Americans who have visible white ancestry Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next          The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> History of the U.S. One-Drop Rule Author Message dabenzness Probationary Joined: 04 Sep 2007 {Posts: 4 } Posted: Tue 11 Sep 2007 07:40    Post subject: African Americans who have visible white ancestry To my knowledge most of these people identify themselves as Black or African American, though I'm sure some don't. Jesse Moorland, Black Leader and Minister: http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/1141/Jesse_Moorland_civic_leader_and_much_more John Hope, first Black President of Morehouse College: http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/915/Activist_John_Hope_had_a_vision_ Mordecai Wyatt Johnson, First Black President of Howard Univ. http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/23/Educator_Mordecai_Johnson_influenced_MLK_Jr Adam Clayton Powell, Sr., Clergyman: http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/1751/Spiritual_charisma_Adam_Clayton_Powell_Sr Adam Clayton Powell, Jr.-Politician & Rev. http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/1751/Spiritual_charisma_Adam_Clayton_Powell_Sr Ralph Bunche-U.N. Diplomat http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/1751/Spiritual_charisma_Adam_Clayton_Powell_Sr Edward Brooke-D.C. Politician http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/1241/DCs_own_Edward_Brooke__ Ron Brown-Harlem Politician http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Brown_%28U.S._politician%29 Frank Horne-Public Administrator & Poet (and uncle of Lena Horne) http://www.dclibrary.org/blkren/bios/hornefs.html Dr. Charles Drew-Medical Innovator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Drew G.K. Butterfield-Politician from N.C. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.K._Butterfield Ellen Holly-Actress http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/2774/First_black_Actress_cast_on_American_SoapOpera William Allison Davis-Univ. of Chicago Professor http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/2298/William_A_Davis_educator_with_a_historical_slant Allison Davis-Chicago Atty, son of William Davis http://www.chicagoreporter.com/1998/03-98/0398davis.htm http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/06/garden/06DAVI.html?ex=1383454800&en=cc73a25cfbe17145&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND May Jackson, Sculptorist http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/1135/A_great_sculptorist_May_Jackson Wendell Scott-NASCAR Winner http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/1109/Black_race_car_legend_Wendell_O_Scott_ Nina Mae Mckinney-Actress http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/ninamaemckinney/ Bobby Scott-Politician http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_C._Scott Billy Daniels-Big Band Singer http://www.cfhf.net/lyrics/billy.htm Robert Robinson Taylor-Architect http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/2660/Robert_Robinson_Taylor_the_face_of_Tuskegee Cap Wigington, Architect http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/743/Cap_Wigington_was_a_Midwestern_architect__ Earl Dickerson, a Chicago leader http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/938/Earl_Dickerson_a_Chicago_leader Col. Benjamin O. Davis- Tuskegee Airman http://www.yale.edu/glc/tangledroots/tr12bb16.htm George Hardy-Tuskegee Airman http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/082307dnmettuskegee.35e9877.html Olivia Davidson-Educator & administrator http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/947/Olivia_Davidson_a_secret_no_more_ Adella Hunt-Educator http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/1651/From_Georgia_to_Tuskegee_Adella_Hunt__ Coleman Young-former mayor of Detroit http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/900/Detroits_warrior_Coleman_Young Ernest Dutch Morial-first Black mayor of New Orleans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Nathan_Morial Back to top dabenzness Probationary Joined: 04 Sep 2007 {Posts: 4 } Posted: Tue 11 Sep 2007 07:52    Post subject: oops here's the profiles for Adam Clayton Powell, Jr. & Ralph Bunche http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/461/Adam_Clayton_Powell_Jr_Harlem_minister_and_politician_ http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/303/Dr_Ralph_J_Bunche_groundbreaking_diplomat Back to top odocoileus Mentor Joined: 05 Apr 2006 {Posts: 300 } Location: Chatsworth, CA Posted: Tue 11 Sep 2007 21:56    Post subject: Do you mean "African Americans with a mostly European phenotype"? If you actually mean visible Euro ancestry, you end up counting, by my estimation, half the black American population. Jesse Jackson, Coretta Scott King, Will Smith, Charles Barkley, Ziggy Marley, Skip Gates, Spike Lee... It might be easier to list people who don't have visible Euro ancestry. Back to top William Moderator Joined: 30 Mar 2005 {Posts: 1082 } Location: New Jersey Posted: Tue 11 Sep 2007 22:15    Post subject: odocoileus wrote: ...Skip Gates... Did you ever see his father and paternal aunt? They're practically European in appearance. Back to top Dragon Horse SuperMentor Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva Posted: Tue 11 Sep 2007 22:31    Post subject: William wrote: odocoileus wrote: ...Skip Gates... Did you ever see his father and paternal aunt? They're practically European in appearance. Well he has two European Haplogroup (female and male side) he also is 50% European in ancestry according to his admixture test...so no surprising he has phenotypically European family members...some of his grandparents or great grandparent I believe were European. He said once he had 2 Jewish ancestors and I believe a Scottish one...how far back I really don't know. Back to top William Moderator Joined: 30 Mar 2005 {Posts: 1082 } Location: New Jersey Posted: Tue 11 Sep 2007 22:36    Post subject: Dragon Horse wrote: William wrote: odocoileus wrote: ...Skip Gates... Did you ever see his father and paternal aunt? They're practically European in appearance. Well he has two European Haplogroup (female and male side) he also is 50% European in ancestry according to his admixture test...so no surprising he has phenotypically European family members...some of his grandparents or great grandparent I believe were European. He said once he had 2 Jewish ancestors and I believe a Scottish one...how far back I really don't know. Yeah, I saw the programs. Interesting. I also recall that one of his female biracial ancestors of the 1800s owned property and a house. Back to top odocoileus Mentor Joined: 05 Apr 2006 {Posts: 300 } Location: Chatsworth, CA Posted: Tue 11 Sep 2007 22:40    Post subject: I've never seen pictures of them, but I got the impession from Gate's autbio that many people in his family had those kinds of looks. I wonder how his children identify, or how he expects them to identify? Are they black and Jewish? Mixed and Jewish? My understanding is that Shelby Steele, for example, is firm in his contention that he and his children are "black". There aren't a whole lot of West African genes in the family gene pool at this point. Is it good or bad for people to hold fast to the black American identity at this point? Back to top Dragon Horse SuperMentor Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva Posted: Tue 11 Sep 2007 22:40    Post subject: William wrote: Dragon Horse wrote: William wrote: odocoileus wrote: ...Skip Gates... Did you ever see his father and paternal aunt? They're practically European in appearance. Well he has two European Haplogroup (female and male side) he also is 50% European in ancestry according to his admixture test...so no surprising he has phenotypically European family members...some of his grandparents or great grandparent I believe were European. He said once he had 2 Jewish ancestors and I believe a Scottish one...how far back I really don't know. Yeah, I saw the programs. Interesting. I also recall that one of his female biracial ancestors of the 1800s owned property and a house. Yeah that was very unusual indeed for the time period. He almost sounds like a black man from ol'school white money. Back to top jagirl32 Experienced User Joined: 17 Jul 2007 {Posts: 125 } Posted: Thu 27 Sep 2007 02:27    Post subject: ODR IS RACIST! Some of these so called "black" people in these photos have or had no businsess calling themselves black! Back to top Whatareyou? Regular User Joined: 03 Sep 2007 {Posts: 55 } Posted: Tue 23 Oct 2007 05:47    Post subject: Re: ODR IS RACIST! jagirl32 wrote: Some of these so called "black" people in these photos have or had no businsess calling themselves black! I don't think they had a choice in the matter. Back to top lsgh Mentor Joined: 02 Oct 2007 {Posts: 226 } Location: Seattle Posted: Tue 23 Oct 2007 06:45    Post subject: /// VV Last edited by lsgh on Tue 04 Dec 2007 14:43; edited 1 time in total Back to top fwsweet Administrator Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5377 } Location: Palm Coast, FL Posted: Tue 23 Oct 2007 10:23    Post subject: Re: ODR IS RACIST! LSGH wrote: SURE they did! They're SELL OUTS!!! The above is a violation of two rules: 1.3 (moral indignation ouside of the two political advocacy forums) and 2.6 (criticizing someone’s choice of ethnic or “racial” self-identity). This is a formal warning; LSGH's next suspension will be for two weeks. Back to top pianoplayer111 Wizard Joined: 16 May 2007 {Posts: 429 } Posted: Tue 20 Nov 2007 23:35    Post subject: Hmm...half the AA population does not have visible European ancestry, from what I've seen. Charles Barkley? Spike Lee? Nope! It doesn't show, but then...(see below) Skip Gates looks like your average brown-skinned dude, IMO, but oddly enough has 50% European ancestry. That is interesting. Back to top G-Man Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2992 } Posted: Wed 21 Nov 2007 13:28    Post subject: pianoplayer111 wrote: Hmm...half the AA population does not have visible European ancestry, from what I've seen. Charles Barkley? Spike Lee? Nope! It doesn't show, but then...(see below) Skip Gates looks like your average brown-skinned dude, IMO, but oddly enough has 50% European ancestry. That is interesting. To me Charles Barkley and Spike Lee both show visible signs of European (or non-African) ancestry to me. Same with Skip Gates. It could be that in the U.S. people with looks like Barkley and Lee's are so common in the black community we just conclude that these people show no signs of non-African ancestry. But when they are compared to, say, West Africans or people from the Caribbean, the non-African ancestry is more apparent. Back to top sagascend Moderator-at-Large Joined: 17 Jun 2006 {Posts: 2417 } Posted: Wed 21 Nov 2007 14:26    Post subject: G-Man wrote: It could be that in the U.S. people with looks like Barkley and Lee's are so common in the black community we just conclude that these people show no signs of non-African ancestry. But when they are compared to, say, West Africans or people from the Caribbean, the non-African ancestry is more apparent. This is the same reason why many African/European FGM look "Black" to many Americans, even many people who are all about claiming mixed folks. I had someone like this argue with me that Boris Kodjoe could not have a white European mother because he looked like a "regular Black guy." Apparently to this person people with Afro-Euro ancestry have a "special' look that is immediately discernable. I don't know. To me Americans are so used to applying the ODR that they cannot see admixture as readily in Black American people, whereas in the Carribean, Latin America and even Europe more people can see what's obvious...maybe because there are Africans directly from Africa and populations that really haven't mixed significantly as a reference point. It doesn't register because it doesn't matter in our racial classification scheme. I also suspect that "visible European ancestry" simply refers to socially significant cues: Skin lighter than...a paper bag, eye color other than brown, lips or nose that are less broad and straight/wavy/coiled hair that is light brown, red or blond. European ancestry is visible and rampant throughout the A-A population depending on what you are looking at. I also find that many American Whites, compared to Nordic Europeans, look very different. They look mixed to me, indicating the amalgamation of European ethnicities and Native/African ancestry in their appearance. Back to top gemini072 Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2942 } Posted: Wed 21 Nov 2007 14:34    Post subject: Re: ODR IS RACIST! jagirl32 wrote: Some of these so called "black" people in these photos have or had no businsess calling themselves black! They didn't Term like Negro, Colored and Mulatto were in use. Negro & Colored were terms mainly used. Back to top gemini072 Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2942 } Posted: Wed 21 Nov 2007 15:05    Post subject: G-Man wrote: pianoplayer111 wrote: Hmm...half the AA population does not have visible European ancestry, from what I've seen. Charles Barkley? Spike Lee? Nope! It doesn't show, but then...(see below) Skip Gates looks like your average brown-skinned dude, IMO, but oddly enough has 50% European ancestry. That is interesting. To me Charles Barkley and Spike Lee both show visible signs of European (or non-African) ancestry to me. Same with Skip Gates. It could be that in the U.S. people with looks like Barkley and Lee's are so common in the black community we just conclude that these people show no signs of non-African ancestry. But when they are compared to, say, West Africans or people from the Caribbean, the non-African ancestry is more apparent. I agree, Many people think someone with European ancestry means they must look white or have strong Euro admixture. Also someone can be partially Euro even half Euro and not "look partially European" that admixture can make them look partially Native or Asian Gates definately has recent Euro admixture, I read one of his books where he talked about his family and admixture was distributed among his siblings and cousins mainly the follicle prestidigitation." While Gates has stressed the need for greater recognition of black literature and black culture, Gates does not, advocate a “separatist” black canon but, rather, a greater recognition of black works that would be integrated into a larger, pluralistic canon. He has affirmed the value of the Western tradition but envisions a loose canon of diverse works integrated by common cultural connections: “Every black American text must confess to a complex ancestry, one high and low (that is, literary and vernacular) but also one white and black...there can be no doubt that white texts inform and influence black texts (and vice versa), so that a thoroughly integrated canon of American literature is not only politically sound, it is intellectually sound as well.”[2] Moreover, Gates has argued that a separatist, Afrocentric education perpetuates racist stereotypes and maintains that it is “ridiculous” to think that only blacks should be scholars of African and African-American literature. He argues, “It can’t be real as a subject if you have to look like the subject to be an expert in the subject,”[1] If you look at the book their is an image of his family. Lighter father darker mother Back to top anonymouse Wizard Joined: 09 Oct 2007 {Posts: 677 } Posted: Wed 21 Nov 2007 15:34    Post subject: Re: ODR IS RACIST! gemini072 wrote: jagirl32 wrote: Some of these so called "black" people in these photos have or had no businsess calling themselves black! They didn't Term like Negro, Colored and Mulatto were in use. Negro & Colored were terms mainly used. Weren't the terms negro and coloured interchangeable? Back to top anonymouse Wizard Joined: 09 Oct 2007 {Posts: 677 } Posted: Wed 21 Nov 2007 15:37    Post subject: sagascend wrote: G-Man wrote: It could be that in the U.S. people with looks like Barkley and Lee's are so common in the black community we just conclude that these people show no signs of non-African ancestry. But when they are compared to, say, West Africans or people from the Caribbean, the non-African ancestry is more apparent. This is the same reason why many African/European FGM look "Black" to many Americans, even many people who are all about claiming mixed folks. I had someone like this argue with me that Boris Kodjoe could not have a white European mother because he looked like a "regular Black guy." Apparently to this person people with Afro-Euro ancestry have a "special' look that is immediately discernable. I don't know. To me Americans are so used to applying the ODR that they cannot see admixture as readily in Black American people, whereas in the Carribean, Latin America and even Europe more people can see what's obvious...maybe because there are Africans directly from Africa and populations that really haven't mixed significantly as a reference point. It doesn't register because it doesn't matter in our racial classification scheme. hmmm... Back to top gemini072 Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2942 } Posted: Wed 21 Nov 2007 15:56    Post subject: Re: ODR IS RACIST! anonymouse wrote: gemini072 wrote: jagirl32 wrote: Some of these so called "black" people in these photos have or had no businsess calling themselves black! They didn't Term like Negro, Colored and Mulatto were in use. Negro & Colored were terms mainly used. Weren't the terms negro and coloured interchangeable? The way you typed Coloured was not used in America, that is used in South Africa and was not interchangeable with black(s) Coloureds were the generationally mixed people of Zulu and European as well as Muslims & Indians Negro fell out of favor by the 1970s in the United States after the Civil Rights movement. However, it is necessary to note that older "African Americans" from the period when "Negro" was considered acceptable, initially found the term "Black" more offensive than "Negro". Evidence for this is in historical African-American organizations and institutions' utilization of the term--such as the United Negro College Fund. In current English language usage, "Negro" is generally considered acceptable in a historical context or in the name of older organizations, as in Negro spirituals or the United Negro College Fund. The U.S. Census now uses the grouping "Black or African American." NAACP A Coloured family Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> History of the U.S. One-Drop Rule All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next Page 1 of 3 Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group