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odocoileus
Mentor
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
{Posts: 300 }
Location: Chatsworth, CA
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 Posted: Sun 16 Sep 2007 21:18 Post subject: World's most famous multiracial american in trouble again |
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http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-ex-ojarrest17sep17,0,543909.story?coll=la-home-center
OJ's in trouble again.
My guess: the guilt over his crimes is slowly driving him insane. Otherwise, why continue to get yourself in trouble? Why not lay low, move to a foreign country where no one knows you?
Anyway, I'm hoping the Juice gets convicted and the judge sentences him to the max on all counts, to run consecutively.
Thirty years in jail and no parole board in its right mind would give him a break. He dies in jail.
Wishful thinking?
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BillyMadison79
Experienced User
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
{Posts: 133 }
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| Posted: Sun 16 Sep 2007 21:47 Post subject: |
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| O.J is not a Mulatto. |
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odocoileus
Mentor
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
{Posts: 300 }
Location: Chatsworth, CA
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| Posted: Sun 16 Sep 2007 22:11 Post subject: |
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He's unquestionably multi racial. He's also on record as identifying himself as an individual rather than "black".
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=74200&rendTypeId=4
This picture says it all.
F. Lee Bailey, left, Northern European phenotype.
Johnnie Cochran, right, West African phenotype
OJ, center, mixed phenotype.
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Salsassin
SuperWizard
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3515 }
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 00:35 Post subject: |
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| odocoileus wrote: | He's unquestionably multi racial. He's also on record as identifying himself as an individual rather than "black".
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=74200&rendTypeId=4
This picture says it all.
F. Lee Bailey, left, Northern European phenotype.
Johnnie Cochran, right, West African phenotype
OJ, center, mixed phenotype. |
There are Africans with that phenotype. So your assumption is just that. He may be mixed. But don't assume he identifies as such. I await your evidence that he identifies as multiracial or that he does not identify as Black. |
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odocoileus
Mentor
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
{Posts: 300 }
Location: Chatsworth, CA
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 00:58 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | There are Africans with that phenotype. So your assumption is just that. |
But that's not the standard. You'd have to find unmixed people of sub Saharan, West African ancestry.
People of mixed sub Saharan & non sub Saharan ancestry, like some of the Berbers and Tuareg don't count. They're already mixed.
People from East Africa and the Horn of Africa don't count either. The ancestors of black identified Americans didn't come from those places.
Can you find one picture of an unmixed person of sub Saharan, West African ancestry who has a phenotype similar to OJ's?
One Wolof, one Akan, one Yoruba, one Ibo, one Hausa?
Here a some pictures of known biracials who fit the technical definition of mulatto - on black parent and one white one. They have phenotypes similar to OJ's.
http://soccerprofile.imess.net/gullit.html
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42203000/jpg/_42203738_5frankpresser416.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/04/boxing_sports_personality0_what_happened_next0/img/3.jpg
OJ has stated that he identifies as an individual rather than as a black man. In fact, many black Americans have criticized him as a sell out based on this and his marriage to a white woman.
I do believe OJ is America's most famous multi racial person. Barak Obama could be a challenger on this point, but OJ's been famous (and infamous) for much longer than Obama.
One question: how much damage has the whole OJ debacle done to the black/white multiracial community? As much damage as the whole Vick situation has done to the black community? More, less?
Last edited by odocoileus on Mon 17 Sep 2007 05:23; edited 1 time in total |
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Salsassin
SuperWizard
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3515 }
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 02:05 Post subject: |
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| odocoileus wrote: |
But that's not the standard. You'd have to find unmixed people of sub Saharan, West African ancestry. |
Did you check his pedigree to see what specific place his ancestors were brought from?
| Quote: | People of mixed sub Saharan & non sub Saharan ancestry, like some of the Berbers and Tuareg don't count. They're already mixed.
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Mixed with Northern Africans.
| Quote: | People from East Africa and the Horn of Africa don't count either. The ancestors of black identified Americans didn't come from those places.
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And you know this how?
The Portuguese began dealing in black slaves from Africa in the 15th century. Initially, they purchased slaves from Islamic traders, who had established inland trading routes to the sub-Sahara region. Later, as the Portuguese explored the coast of Africa, they came upon the Senegal River, and found that they could purchase slaves directly from black Africans. The European slave trading activity moved south along the African coast over time, as far south as Angola. On the east coast of Africa and in the Indian Ocean region, slaves were also taken from Mozambique, Zanzibar and Madagascar.
While most of the East Coast slaves ended in South America, that doesn't mean all did. Again. You can talk of probabilities, but don't assume.
| Quote: | | Can you find one picture of an unmixed person of sub Saharan, West African ancestry who has a phenotype similar to OJ's? |
You mean like the ones of I have posted of the Ibo?
Or maybe I should point out Nigerians.
Is he probably mixed, sure. But don't just assume he is mixed with non African ancestries. Or even if he is, that it is of any significant amount. Just like others shouldn't assume he is of pure African ancestry.
| Quote: |
OJ has stated that he identifies as an individual rather than as a black man. In fact, many black Americans have criticized him as a sell out based on this and his marriage to a white woman. |
Nice try. That only means he doesn't buy into racial titles not that he identifies as multiracial. He identifies as human. SO do many Africans.
| Quote: | I do believe OJ is America's most famous multi racial person. Barak Obama could be a challenger on this point, but OJ's been famous (and infamous) for much longer than Obama.
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You have yet to prove this.
| Quote: | | One question: how much damage has the whole OJ debacle done to the black/white multiracial community? As much damage as the whole Vick situation has done to the black community? More, less? |
Who says he is multiracial? Who says Vicks isn't multiracial? Did you do DNA tests on them? Did you ask them how they identified? And I am still waiting for your sources. |
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odocoileus
Mentor
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
{Posts: 300 }
Location: Chatsworth, CA
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 02:43 Post subject: |
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Another known multi racial american with a phenotype similar to OJ's.
http://www.popcornreel.com/514_16849_big.jpg
None of the photos you posted match OJ's phenotype the way mine do. In fact, they look more like Johnnie Cochran. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
According to old school definitions, Berbers and Tuaregs are Caucasoid. So being mixed with either would make someone multiracial.
It's common knowledge that the great majority of the ancestors of black identified Americans - O.J.'s parents were black identified Americans - came from West Africa,Central and Southern Africa. The probability that OJ's African ancestors came from anyplace but these is small.
I never claimed that he identified as multi racial. He's made public statements rejecting a black identity. He's visibly multi racial.
I applaud OJ's willingness to reject a black identity, and his resistance to the pressure that black American community has placed on him to identify as such. I applaud his choice to marry who he wanted and not allow himself to be limited by either black racists or white ones. |
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odocoileus
Mentor
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
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Location: Chatsworth, CA
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 02:55 Post subject: |
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Another question:
has O.J. specifically avoided expressing an explicit multi racial identity because of pressure from the black American community? Should he "come out" as multi racial now? If he does, is this a benefit or detriment to the multi racial community? |
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BillyMadison79
Experienced User
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
{Posts: 133 }
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 03:29 Post subject: |
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| O.J does not have a Nonblack parent so why should he adopt a mixed race identity ? |
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odocoileus
Mentor
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
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Location: Chatsworth, CA
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 03:41 Post subject: |
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He should embrace all of his heritage. He shouldn't allow pressure from black Americans to determine how he views himself.
In fact, he clearly hasn't allowed this. He's bravely rejected the black identity. I think he should embrace his multi racial heritage more explicitly.
Why hide your light under a bushel? |
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Salsassin
SuperWizard
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3515 }
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 04:08 Post subject: |
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| odocoileus wrote: | | Another known multi racial american with a phenotype similar to OJ's. |
You have yet to show that all those people are self identified as multiracial.
| Quote: | | None of the photos you posted match OJ's phenotype the way mine do. In fact, they look more like Johnnie Cochran. Not that there's anything wrong with that. |
And who says they look more like OJ? Your biased opinion? FOr that matter, who says Cochrane has an African phenotype? I can easily point to his phenotype in mixed individuals as well.
| Quote: | | According to old school definitions, Berbers and Tuaregs are Caucasoid. So being mixed with either would make someone multiracial. |
Old school definitions were erroneous. Why would we use them. Old school definitions also said Blacks were closer to apes. That was proven wrong.
| Quote: | | It's common knowledge that the great majority of the ancestors of black identified Americans - O.J.'s parents were black identified Americans - came from West Africa,Central and Southern Africa. The probability that OJ's African ancestors came from anyplace but these is small. |
But not non existent. Again, did you do a genetic test on him or did you do his genealogy?
| Quote: | I never claimed that he identified as multi racial. He's made public statements rejecting a black identity. He's visibly multi racial.
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Has he rejected the Black cultural identity or the Black racial identity? Have you interviewed him? And again, your eyeballing falls short of any valid standards.
| Quote: | | I applaud OJ's willingness to reject a black identity, and his resistance to the pressure that black American community has placed on him to identify as such. I applaud his choice to marry who he wanted and not allow himself to be limited by either black racists or white ones. |
Yes to the last part but you still haven't provided a source showing that he has rejected his black identity thus violating the rules of this board.
Simpson said those who faulted him didn't really know him.
In 1974, when a San Francisco newspaper said his movie "The Klansman," would set "race relations back 50 years," he responded, "What do they mean by race relations? I don't trip off the fact that I'm black and you're white. I don't go into the Buffalo Bills and say, 'Let's establish race relations.' That's 10 years old."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/nns056.htm |
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odocoileus
Mentor
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
{Posts: 300 }
Location: Chatsworth, CA
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 04:23 Post subject: |
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| Now that O.J.'s looking at spending the rest of his life in prison, maybe he'll finally be willing to fully, publicly embrace his multi racial identity. Then at least some good can come of this awful situation. |
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Salsassin
SuperWizard
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3515 }
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 04:27 Post subject: |
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| odocoileus wrote: | | Now that O.J.'s looking at spending the rest of his life in prison, maybe he'll finally be willing to fully, publicly embrace his multi racial identity. Then at least some good can come of this awful situation. |
You have yet to show that he has such multiracial identity. Furthermore, you seem to be claiming he is failing somehow if he identifies as Black. Clear violation of the rules again. |
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odocoileus
Mentor
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
{Posts: 300 }
Location: Chatsworth, CA
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 04:44 Post subject: |
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I want O.J. to turn his back on all those who believe that he's somehow not good enough to claim his multiracial identity.
He should reject the ODR and claim his true identity. Start being who he really is, and reject the black racists who want to pigeon hole him. |
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mulan
Experienced User
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
{Posts: 102 }
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 06:09 Post subject: |
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| Oh, OJ definitely is Black multiracial. Look at the shape of his face. |
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bluestocking
New User
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
{Posts: 36 }
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 13:52 Post subject: |
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His daughter Sydney was a blonde, at least as a child. Since light colored hair is usually a recessive trait, she'd probably have to have genes for blonde hair from both parents. I'd say O.J. must have some European ancestry.
But why would you fight over who gets the "honor" of claiming someone like him? |
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Salsassin
SuperWizard
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3515 }
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 14:02 Post subject: |
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| mulan wrote: | | Oh, OJ definitely is Black multiracial. Look at the shape of his face. |
Eyeballing has always shown to be flawed. I believe he is so as well. But do you have actual evidence other than eyeballing? Or using Frank's study that states that ALL African Americans have some admixture?
I can easily see those features in Northernmost regions of Sub Saharan Africa and which were captured as slaves on occasion as well.
Chances are he is not, but can you claim with certainty (and evidence) that he is not? Maybe a statement by him or others of some ancestry of his? |
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Salsassin
SuperWizard
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3515 }
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 14:25 Post subject: |
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| bluestocking wrote: | | His daughter Sydney was a blonde, at least as a child. Since light colored hair is usually a recessive trait, she'd probably have to have genes for blonde hair from both parents. I'd say O.J. must have some European ancestry. |
Now that is better evidence. Not complete but better. |
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mulan
Experienced User
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
{Posts: 102 }
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| Posted: Mon 17 Sep 2007 20:54 Post subject: |
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| Salsassin wrote: | | mulan wrote: | | Oh, OJ definitely is Black multiracial. Look at the shape of his face. |
Eyeballing has always shown to be flawed. I believe he is so as well. But do you have actual evidence other than eyeballing? Or using Frank's study that states that ALL African Americans have some admixture?
I can easily see those features in Northernmost regions of Sub Saharan Africa and which were captured as slaves on occasion as well.
Chances are he is not, but can you claim with certainty (and evidence) that he is not? Maybe a statement by him or others of some ancestry of his? |
Oh, definitely, a statement would confirm all speculation. But I'll continue to strongly speculate. I'm confident in my speculation. |
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Dana
Probationary
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
{Posts: 1 }
Location: Bay Area CA
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| Posted: Wed 19 Sep 2007 05:13 Post subject: |
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I believe in O.J.s murder trial, he was identified as having some
Native American ancestry through a blood test.
As someone who grew up in the same neighborhood and
went to the same elementary school as he did, I can guarantee
that he was a part of the African-American community. He
lived in the projects. The projects was a community overwhelming
consisting of African-Americans. Also, he got into a lot
of trouble as a youth and his early orientation never seems
to have changed in spite of his success as an athlete.
This orientation is far more dominant than any
questions of being an African-American or person of color.
Dana |
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