Posted: Mon 25 Aug 2008 03:18 Post subject: Black hatred of mixed-race in schools
Quote:
November 26, 2006
Parenting
NY Times
Talking About Race, in School and at Home
By MICHAEL WINERIP
MANCHESTER, Conn.
THIS blue-collar Hartford suburb of 50,000 has seen a change in its population over the last decade. The number of blacks is growing, replacing whites who, in many cases, have moved to suburbs farther out.
The school district’s enrollment is now 46 percent minority students, but at several elementary schools, they make up more than two-thirds of the students. As a result, the state has ordered that the town improve the racial balance of its schools.
To work out an integration plan with broad support, officials have been holding town meetings to build consensus among whites and blacks. They start with a dinner, then break into racially mixed discussion groups.
I spoke with two of the parents helping shape a new integration plan. John Reiser is white. He is a teacher and coach with four children in the schools. Annette Odom is black. She runs two after-school programs and has a daughter in sixth grade. Ms. Odom is also in the midst of adopting four children, who attend Manchester schools.
Mr. Reiser grew up here and has many white friends who have moved away or switched their children to mainly white Catholic schools. He remains committed to the public schools in part because he wants his children to have friends from different backgrounds. Ms. Odom is a newcomer; five years ago, she moved from the East New York section of Brooklyn because she believes there is more opportunity here and that it’s important for black children to feel comfortable and confident among whites.
•
“I come from a big Catholic family of 10 kids, and I always had black friends,” Mr. Reiser said. “My parents were very welcoming. I don’t remember them ever bringing up race, and I don’t either with my kids. It was how my parents acted, not what they said. I try to show my kids by example.”
Mr. Reiser, 45, says his involvement in sports has helped influence and educate him and his children when it comes to race. He coaches Manchester High’s girls’ basketball team, which is about half white and half black (and was 28-0 as state champs two years ago). He also runs a basketball camp with a black business partner.
His children play sports, as do many of their black friends. When Mr. Reiser’s sixth grader, Jake, is asked whether he and his father discuss race, he says, “No, he doesn’t really talk to me about it.” Asked to describe his father’s feelings on race, he says: “My dad has friends who are black at his basketball camp. Some of the coaches are black, and another person who my dad owns the camp with is. And I notice the girls’ team and some of the parents he talks to.”
The phone rang at the Reisers’; it was Teighlor Clare-Kearney calling to speak to 15-year-old John. Teighlor, who is black, and John were planning to go to an open gym together to shoot baskets. Her father, Craig, and Mr. Reiser played ball together growing up here, and they remain close.
Becky Reiser, 17, a top senior academically, a member of the varsity track team and the editor of the school paper, also has a wide mix of friends. She first discussed the issue of racial balance in history class last year when they studied the resistance to school busing in Boston during the 1960s.
Though Manchester High is impressively integrated — 59 percent white, 21 percent black, 15 percent Hispanic, 5 percent Asian — she says you notice divisions in the cafeteria, where kids sit at black, white and mixed-race tables. The divide is so pronounced that when the school holds a multicultural week, everyone is supposed to eat lunch with kids from other groups. Still, when asked if there’s racial tension, Becky says, “Not really.”
Her father is not so sure. “Becky probably wouldn’t notice,” he says. “I was the same way until I got older. I’d guess others would give a different opinion.”
•
Ms. Odom, 44, belongs to a group of black parents who meet monthly with the superintendent, Dr. Kathleen Ouellette, to highlight concerns like increasing the number of teachers of color. She says her philosophy on discussing race with children is, “ ‘Learn by what I do as opposed to what I say.’ ”
“I try not to make it the topic of conversation,” she says. “But I want them to see how I interact with all people, not just people of color, and that I’m forever myself. In the past when people of color got around Caucasians they’d be inoffensive, agree with what they were saying. I don’t laugh if I do not approve and it’s not called for. I tell my kids like my father told me, ‘You should be able to dance on many sets.’ ”
She says her sixth grader, Zipporah, who has attended school here since first grade, understands that “you take people for who they are on the inside.” But she says the four she is adopting — children of a friend who died in childbirth — have had a different experience growing up in a segregated culture in Brooklyn. They have lived with her since August. The oldest, Saliyma, 16, is doing well academically, the only black student in her A.P. chemistry class. But the girl feels an uncomfortable racial divide at school. “At lunch, you see whites on one side, mixed-race in the front and the black on the other side,” Saliyma says. “I stay with the black kids.”
“I feel like black people here are always being judged,” she says. “The in-crowd is mixed, a black father and white mother or vice versa.” As a dark-skinned black, Saliyma says, she feels like an outsider. Asked if there is anything she likes, she says, “Nothing about here is better than Brooklyn.”
Ms. Odom thinks that part of Saliyma’s reaction is because she’s new, and part reflects her racial attitudes. “We talk and she’ll say, ‘You know that light-skinned girl’ or ‘that light-skinned boy with straight hair,’ ” Ms. Odom says. “I try to bring to her attention that color is always an issue for her. I want her to think there is another way to look at it, a better way.
“I don’t say it’s wrong. She’s 16, has her own mind. We talk a little, then go on to something else. It’s a beginning.”
Ms. Odom has suggested that instead of always eating lunch with her black friends, Saliyma could sit with the A.P. chem kids some days. When asked about this, Saliyma said, “My feelings could change as I get to know other people.”
Though Manchester High is impressively integrated — 59 percent white, 21 percent black, 15 percent Hispanic, 5 percent Asian — she says you notice divisions in the cafeteria, where kids sit at black, white and mixed-race tables. The divide is so pronounced that when the school holds a multicultural week, everyone is supposed to eat lunch with kids from other groups. Still, when asked if there’s racial tension, Becky says, “Not really.”
STOP THE PRESSES!!! In a multiracial (and multicultural) school children seek out other children like themselves...No, that can't be.
This mirrors my own high school back in the 80s and noone found this to be a problem, the only exception being the lack of a mixed-race table.
Instead of forcing children who don't want to be together to sit with one another, the school should just leave them alone. They aren't fighting one another and we should be grateful for that.
The divisions in the cafeteria are a natural consequence of the schools diversity coupled with the possible heavy emphasis on difference promoted by teachers and school administrators. The school should leave well enough alone before it does more damage.
Quote:
Ms. Odom, 44, belongs to a group of black parents who meet monthly with the superintendent, Dr. Kathleen Ouellette, to highlight concerns like increasing the number of teachers of color. She says her philosophy on discussing race with children is, “ ‘Learn by what I do as opposed to what I say.’ ”
“I try not to make it the topic of conversation,” she says. “But I want them to see how I interact with all people, not just people of color, and that I’m forever myself. In the past when people of color got around Caucasians they’d be inoffensive, agree with what they were saying. I don’t laugh if I do not approve and it’s not called for. I tell my kids like my father told me, ‘You should be able to dance on many sets.’ ”
What exactly is a person of color in this context and how will hiring more of them improve the academic performance of Ms. Odom's (black) children?
Will an Asian, Middle Eastern, or Latino teacher of color inspire black children to do better in that school? Will black teachers have the same effect on Latino children?
If her daughter Saliyma feels alienated in such a diverse environment, it's unlikely she'll feel less so if there are more non-black teachers of color around.
Finally, I wouldn't interpret the highlighted comments as reflective of black hatred of the mixed-race students in that school. I suppose one could infer that from those statements. But I see the comments as the child's observation of the social situation at that school. Nothing more.
I think the title you put to the forum is just wrong
The way you titled is misleading
This article is 98% about black white interractions and to me is a very positive article
Hatred has nothing to do with this and the 1 teenage black girl's opinion cannot be interpreted as hatred.
Talking About Race, in School and at Home
You should rename the title of to what the auther named it.
I think the title you put to the forum is just wrong
The way you titled is misleading
This article is 98% about black white interractions and to me is a very positive article
Hatred has nothing to do with this and the 1 teenage black girl's opinion cannot be interpreted as hatred.
Talking About Race, in School and at Home
You should rename the title of to what the auther named it.
Posted: Fri 29 Aug 2008 05:21 Post subject: Hatred
Quote:
Ms. Odom thinks that part of Saliyma’s reaction is because she’s new, and part reflects her racial attitudes. “We talk and she’ll say, ‘You know that light-skinned girl’ or ‘that light-skinned boy with straight hair,’ ” Ms. Odom says. “I try to bring to her attention that color is always an issue for her. I want her to think there is another way to look at it, a better way.
I think that the girl clearly shows hatred for part-black mixed-race people. That is a type of hatred common among blacks. In schools, it can make the lives of the mixed children hell.
Posted: Fri 29 Aug 2008 07:51 Post subject: Re: Hatred
Powell wrote:
Quote:
Ms. Odom thinks that part of Saliyma’s reaction is because she’s new, and part reflects her racial attitudes. “We talk and she’ll say, ‘You know that light-skinned girl’ or ‘that light-skinned boy with straight hair,’ ” Ms. Odom says. “I try to bring to her attention that color is always an issue for her. I want her to think there is another way to look at it, a better way.
I think that the girl clearly shows hatred for part-black mixed-race people. That is a type of hatred common among blacks. In schools, it can make the lives of the mixed children hell.
I think you're going to have to explain more than just quoting the article over and over again. It's not "clear" to other people why this quote shows such obvious hatred by a black person toward mixed people, so maybe you should explain.
At any rate. I happen to have been an involuntary honorary member of our class' "mixed girls club" and I swear, those girls' pastime was to make non-mixed "obviously" black girls with natural (read: nappy) hair and strong "SSA" features feel like they weren't really that pretty.
Posted: Fri 29 Aug 2008 23:46 Post subject: Re: Hatred
Powell wrote:
Quote:
Ms. Odom thinks that part of Saliyma’s reaction is because she’s new, and part reflects her racial attitudes. “We talk and she’ll say, ‘You know that light-skinned girl’ or ‘that light-skinned boy with straight hair,’ ” Ms. Odom says. “I try to bring to her attention that color is always an issue for her. I want her to think there is another way to look at it, a better way.
I think that the girl clearly shows hatred for part-black mixed-race people. That is a type of hatred common among blacks. In schools, it can make the lives of the mixed children hell.
hatred is not the word
She said nothing to prove she hates mixed race people.
All that was, was a intro descriptor
I hear black people refer to other similarly "You know that really dark skinned girl"
Withought knowing that young girl we can't come to that conclusion.
And believe me, "Mixed" people can and do make the lives of very dark skinned people hell as well.
I've seen that side most of my life. In the 11th grade there was one dark skinned kid with very big lips who was the smartest kid in the class/very intelligent who would get drilled as soon as he stepped foot in the class room and it was mostly by/started by 'mixed' race girls 2-MGM 1-Biracial.
They would get the class going and before long his grades started dropping really fast and he started acting out by trying to be cool like the rest of the class...He never retaliated.
I think the title you put to the forum is just wrong
The way you titled is misleading
This article is 98% about black white interractions and to me is a very positive article
Hatred has nothing to do with this and the 1 teenage black girl's opinion cannot be interpreted as hatred.
Talking About Race, in School and at Home
You should rename the title of to what the auther named it.
I agree. The title to this thread is ridiculous.
To call it a gross distortion would be an understatement.
Posted: Sat 15 Nov 2008 08:33 Post subject: Re: Black hatred of mixed-race in schools
Powell wrote:
Quote:
November 26, 2006
THIS 'blue'-collar Hartford suburb of 50,000 has seen a change in its population over the last decade. The number of 'blacks' is growing, replacing whites who, in many cases, have moved to suburbs farther out.
who the hell cares, why dont you just hire people that will teach the children? Why does it have to be a big issue with diversity ? Hire teachers that will teach the children properly, whether they are black or not
The school district’s enrollment is now 46 percent minority students, but at several elementary schools, they make up more than two-thirds of the students. As a result, the state has ordered that the town improve the racial balance of its schools.
'minority students', ah, so now you want the students to feel lower than what they should think of themselves. The term minority should be used for huge populations such as that of America. The children in the school are a small population and looking at the stats, they dont seem to make up the 'minority' of the classroom. Im not being politically correct , I just hate the term when its overused.
To work out an integration plan with broad support, officials have been holding town meetings to build consensus among whites and blacks. They start with a dinner, then break into racially mixed discussion groups.
What is this, integration plan. Simply dont hire teachers that are racist idiots. And fire people who arent doing their job. What integration plan? Fire people. IF I was the principle whites and blacks would have to integrate without any special consideration.
I spoke with two of the parents helping shape a new integration plan. John Reiser is white. He is a teacher and coach with four children in the schools. Annette Odom is black. She runs two after-school programs and has a daughter in sixth grade. Ms. Odom is also in the midst of adopting four children, who attend Manchester schools.
Mr. Reiser grew up here and has many white friends who have moved away or switched their children to mainly white Catholic schools. He remains committed to the public schools in part because he wants his children to have friends from different backgrounds. Ms. Odom is a newcomer; five years ago, she moved from the East New York section of Brooklyn because she believes there is more opportunity here and that it’s important for black children to feel comfortable and confident among whites.
Lol, so the white people moved out when they found out about the influx, lol. Typical, typical. When people stop doing this, then there will be real change in America.
“I come from a big Catholic family of 10 kids, and I always had black friends,” Mr. Reiser said. “My parents were very welcoming. I don’t remember them ever bringing up race, and I don’t either with my kids. It was how my parents acted, not what they said. I try to show my kids by example.”
*Claps* finally someone got it. I can't believe it. All this time people talking about 'im not racist, im not racist', finally someone understands, actions over words.
Mr. Reiser, 45, says his involvement in sports has helped influence and educate him and his children when it comes to race. He coaches Manchester High’s girls’ basketball team, which is about half white and half black (and was 28-0 as state champs two years ago). He also runs a basketball camp with a black business partner.
His children play sports, as do many of their black friends. When Mr. Reiser’s sixth grader, Jake, is asked whether he and his father discuss race, he says, “No, he doesn’t really talk to me about it.” Asked to describe his father’s feelings on race, he says: “My dad has friends who are black at his basketball camp. Some of the coaches are black, and another person who my dad owns the camp with is. And I notice the girls’ team and some of the parents he talks to.”
The phone rang at the Reisers’; it was Teighlor Clare-Kearney calling to speak to 15-year-old John. Teighlor, who is black, and John were planning to go to an open gym together to shoot baskets. Her father, Craig, and Mr. Reiser played ball together growing up here, and they remain close.
Becky Reiser, 17, a top senior academically, a member of the varsity track team and the editor of the school paper, also has a wide mix of friends. She first discussed the issue of racial balance in history class last year when they studied the resistance to school busing in Boston during the 1960s.
Though Manchester High is impressively integrated — 59 percent white, 21 percent black, 15 percent Hispanic, 5 percent Asian — she says you notice divisions in the cafeteria, where kids sit at black, white and mixed-race tables. The divide is so pronounced that when the school holds a multicultural week, everyone is supposed to eat lunch with kids from other groups. Still, when asked if there’s racial tension, Becky says, “Not really.”
Her father is not so sure. “Becky probably wouldn’t notice,” he says. “I was the same way until I got older. I’d guess others would give a different opinion.”
For me, until this day I'm confused. But I know one thing, I've never been popular in the black group, nor any group at all. But that's my personal thing. THese days you'll find anyone anywhere, but this is just Canadian writing.
Ms. Odom, 44, belongs to a group of black parents who meet monthly with the superintendent, Dr. Kathleen Ouellette, to highlight concerns like increasing the number of teachers of color. She says her philosophy on discussing race with children is, “ ‘Learn by what I do as opposed to what I say.’ ”
“I try not to make it the topic of conversation,” she says. “But I want them to see how I interact with all people, not just people of color, and that I’m forever myself. In the past when people of color got around Caucasians they’d be inoffensive, agree with what they were saying. I don’t laugh if I do not approve and it’s not called for. I tell my kids like my father told me, ‘You should be able to dance on many sets.’ ”
She says her sixth grader, Zipporah, who has attended school here since first grade, understands that “you take people for who they are on the inside.” But she says the four she is adopting — children of a friend who died in childbirth — have had a different experience growing up in a segregated culture in Brooklyn. They have lived with her since August. The oldest, Saliyma, 16, is doing well academically, the only black student in her A.P. chemistry class. But the girl feels an uncomfortable racial divide at school. “At lunch, you see whites on one side, mixed-race in the front and the black on the other side,” Saliyma says. “I stay with the black kids.”
“I feel like black people here are always being judged,” she says. “The in-crowd is mixed, a black father and white mother or vice versa.” As a dark-skinned black, Saliyma says, she feels like an outsider. Asked if there is anything she likes, she says, “Nothing about here is better than Brooklyn.”
Ms. Odom thinks that part of Saliyma’s reaction is because she’s new, and part reflects her racial attitudes. “We talk and she’ll say, ‘You know that light-skinned girl’ or ‘that light-skinned boy with straight hair,’ ” Ms. Odom says. “I try to bring to her attention that color is always an issue for her. I want her to think there is another way to look at it, a better way.
“I don’t say it’s wrong. She’s 16, has her own mind. We talk a little, then go on to something else. It’s a beginning.”
Ms. Odom has suggested that instead of always eating lunch with her black friends, Saliyma could sit with the A.P. chem kids some days. When asked about this, Saliyma said, “My feelings could change as I get to know other people.”
lol what's wrong with that , the girl is 16 years old. She is still a cultural baby. If she was 20-25 years, I would shake my head. Anyways, I think the teachers' are screwed on right, ,most people dont want to show by 'action' and that is what is most important. Never really experienced this stuff since I live in Toronto. But I probably didnt focus too much on it myself, since I was more concerned with other things.
E-mail: parenting@nytimes.com
Posted: Sat 15 Nov 2008 17:22 Post subject: Re: Black hatred of mixed-race in schools
Though Manchester High is impressively integrated — 59 percent white, 21 percent black, 15 percent Hispanic, 5 percent Asian — she says you notice divisions in the cafeteria, where kids sit at black, white and mixed-race tables. The divide is so pronounced that when the school holds a multicultural week, everyone is supposed to eat lunch with kids from other groups. Still, when asked if there’s racial tension, Becky says, “Not really.”
This situation is indicative of the racism prevalent among Americans. Everyone should be with their own kind; no interracial socializing; that is the mentality in the USA. This is my personal observation but generally the most racist group are the White Americans. Notice I'm not saying all Whites. I don't want to get anyone annoyed here. The statement is reflective of my personal experience. Another Hispanic may have had an entirely different experience. I don't think a Hispanic would mind so much if a Black sat at their table or an Asian.
Last edited by Sadie on Sat 15 Nov 2008 22:51; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Sat 15 Nov 2008 20:02 Post subject: Re: Hatred
Powell wrote:
Quote:
Ms. Odom thinks that part of Saliyma’s reaction is because she’s new, and part reflects her racial attitudes. “We talk and she’ll say, ‘You know that light-skinned girl’ or ‘that light-skinned boy with straight hair,’ ” Ms. Odom says. “I try to bring to her attention that color is always an issue for her. I want her to think there is another way to look at it, a better way.
I think that the girl clearly shows hatred for part-black mixed-race people. That is a type of hatred common among blacks. In schools, it can make the lives of the mixed children hell.
Hatred common among blacks? According to what objective study?
Also, I find it odd that, as shown on this site, many "mixed race" people are not different in appearance of less "white" in phenotype than "light skin blacks" with two identifying black parents.
That being the case, I have never seen someone black randomly walk up to a "light skin-looking" person and just hate on them. LOL
If you did that, this black person would be hating on a lot of "black people" all day long.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Sat 15 Nov 2008 20:10 Post subject: Re: Black hatred of mixed-race in schools
Sadie wrote:
Though Manchester High is impressively integrated — 59 percent white, 21 percent black, 15 percent Hispanic, 5 percent Asian — she says you notice divisions in the cafeteria, where kids sit at black, white and mixed-race tables. The divide is so pronounced that when the school holds a multicultural week, everyone is supposed to eat lunch with kids from other groups. Still, when asked if there’s racial tension, Becky says, “Not really.”
This situation is indicative of the racism prevalent among Americans. Everyone should be with their own kind; no interracial socializing. This is my personal observation but generally the most racist group are the White Americans. Notice I'm not saying all Whites. I don't want to get anyone annoyed here. The statement is reflective of my personal experience. Another Hispanic may have had an entirely different experience. I don't think a Hispanic would mind so much if a Black sat at their table or an Asian.
This is not true everywhere, it depends on the area.
I went to high school in VA Bch, VA...it is a heavily mixed race community due to the military presence.
You have whites, blacks, Asians (mostly Filipino) and various mixed race people of all types (mostly black/white and white/Asian).
If you go to a cafeteria you can see whites and blacks grouped apart, but it depending on cliques.
Among whites you had the burn-outs/punks, surfers, rednecks (we called $#it-kickers)...you had the blacks, the Filipinos (some of them divided by gang)...most white/Asian mixes were split almost evenly between those who associated mainly with Filipinos and those mainly with whites.
That being said you also had the jocks...they were pretty racially diverse and associated with each other.
My friends were a mix of nerds/burn-outs/and lower level jocks (like uncool high school sports like soccer and field hockey) we were very mixed race.
My neighborhood was about 70% white or so, maybe the rest split evenly between black and Filipino and we all hung out if you lived within 2 or 3 blocks for the most part...unless you were a total burnout or wanna be gangbanger...
The only major racial conflict I ever remember was gang related...or one of the rednecks got into with one of the more ghetto black kids and a fight started. Most other folks got along well. I'm not saying there was no grouping by race, but it was fairly fluid and it was not like a strict caste system at all.
The point is that what goes on in this article is not necessarily representative of all of America.
Posted: Sat 15 Nov 2008 23:15 Post subject: Re: Black hatred of mixed-race in schools
My neighborhood was about 70% white or so, maybe the rest split evenly between black and Filipino and we all hung out if you lived within 2 or 3 blocks for the most part...unless you were a total burnout or wanna be gangbanger...
I wasn't referring to blatant racism just a more subtle one. When I tried making friends with Italians or other Whites there would be subtle racist comments such as you have an accent. My first language was English and I lived in New York until I was 10 and then I moved to Puerto Rico for ten years but I never forgot English and I certainly did not pick up an accent. I just did not have their "Staten Island, Italian-American accent." Since I was Hispanic it was immediately perceived as being a "Spanish accent." I've had commments by Whites like you don't look Spanish because your're light. I had a colleague at work who was married to a Puerto Rican show me a pic of her children and tell me, "Not bad for being half-Puerto-Rican." I asked her, Why was your husband a dark man? Not all Puerto Ricans are dark. Some White Americans are just so ignorant. Even dark-skinned Latino and White mixed can produce fair children like Cameron Diaz and Christina Aguilera. Even more insulting was her implication is that there is something wrong with looking Puerto-Rican. I thought it was apalling what she said considering that she was talking about her own children! I held my tongue but I felt like saying you shouldn't have married a Puerto-Rican if you don't like the way we look! She should have stuck to her own kind. It's not like Puerto Ricans need your Irish DNA; I felt like telling her! I just want to make it very clear that I'm talking about the White people I have encountered. I am sure that not all are like this but I haven't met those yet!
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Sun 16 Nov 2008 21:31 Post subject: Re: Black hatred of mixed-race in schools
Sadie wrote:
My neighborhood was about 70% white or so, maybe the rest split evenly between black and Filipino and we all hung out if you lived within 2 or 3 blocks for the most part...unless you were a total burnout or wanna be gangbanger...
I wasn't referring to blatant racism just a more subtle one. When I tried making friends with Italians or other Whites there would be subtle racist comments such as you have an accent. My first language was English and I lived in New York until I was 10 and then I moved to Puerto Rico for ten years but I never forgot English and I certainly did not pick up an accent. I just did not have their "Staten Island, Italian-American accent." Since I was Hispanic it was immediately perceived as being a "Spanish accent." I've had commments by Whites like you don't look Spanish because your're light. I had a colleague at work who was married to a Puerto Rican show me a pic of her children and tell me, "Not bad for being half-Puerto-Rican." I asked her, Why was your husband a dark man? Not all Puerto Ricans are dark. Some White Americans are just so ignorant. Even dark-skinned Latino and White mixed can produce fair children like Cameron Diaz and Christina Aguilera. Even more insulting was her implication is that there is something wrong with looking Puerto-Rican. I thought it was apalling what she said considering that she was talking about her own children! I held my tongue but I felt like saying you shouldn't have married a Puerto-Rican if you don't like the way we look! She should have stuck to her own kind. It's not like Puerto Ricans need your Irish DNA; I felt like telling her! I just want to make it very clear that I'm talking about the White people I have encountered. I am sure that not all are like this but I haven't met those yet!
Like I said, it depends on where you live.
I would also say it depends on where you live, and the average education/class of the people you are dealing with.
I live in Fairfax County, VA, right outside of DC...I'm in my early 30's...I can't imagine someone would make those kind of comments in a negative fashion at my office, in my peer group, etc. People like that would instantly be judged as "trashy" or "low class" and not be associated with.
I can see how younger people (teens) from somewhere know for racial intolerance (Staten Island Guido culture) would make these comments, but I would try to give you some encouragement...
THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY REFLECTIVE OF MOST OF AMERICA IN 2008.
I'm not sure what your age is now, but I can tell you there are far more tolerant places. Some time it is not the place as much as the class of people you are dealing with as well, like I said earlier.
I'm happy you've had such positive experiences. The lady who spoke about her children like that was an older Irish lady who worked as a secretary in the place I worked. The ones who said I had a Spanish accent were college freshmen at The College of Staten Island. Admittedly they were not the brightest since they were taking remedial courses! Perhaps you are right. Staten Island is less multicultural/multiracial than other areas.
Joined: 07 Dec 2007 {Posts: 13 } Location: new jersey
Posted: Thu 20 Nov 2008 22:56 Post subject:
Its seems like it is the whole color thing. The fact that black children don't have straight or curly hair, sandy colored skin..etc. Those are considered desirable traits in black america.
Dragon Horse wrote:
browneyesblue wrote:
Alot of black children feel inferior toward mixed children. I have seen it with little girls especially.
It is mainly little girls due to little boys...dynamic is not hard to figure out.
I don't think most black males feel inferior to mixed males.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Fri 21 Nov 2008 02:36 Post subject:
browneyesblue wrote:
Its seems like it is the whole color thing. The fact that black children don't have straight or curly hair, sandy colored skin..etc. Those are considered desirable traits in black america.
Dragon Horse wrote:
browneyesblue wrote:
Alot of black children feel inferior toward mixed children. I have seen it with little girls especially.
It is mainly little girls due to little boys...dynamic is not hard to figure out.
I don't think most black males feel inferior to mixed males.
Women though, yeah I have seen it all my life..
I think that is less true now than it was in the past, at least with men, with women it has not changed much. In general, Beyonce is still hotter than Kelly Roland.
If you look at the "sexiest" black men, that you constantly see in Ebony or even the mainstream media, I would say there is almost an even split between light and dark, but maybe more dark skinned.
To say "blacks" don't have is not true as there are people as light as Prince who identify as black. My mother had curly hair and yellowish skin and I have brown skin and kinky hair like my father...uhm...I'm not sure how you are separating out "what black folks don't have"...you would be easily dividing family and saying things like, I'm black and my sister is not .
Who is considered the sexist black man among black women? It is obviously Denzel Washington.
Who is considered the sexiest black woman. For many years it was Halle Berry.
I have heard, black folks in my family talk about so-and-so has 'good hair' or 'light eyes', in regard to a boy...but it is odd. I think when most black women in my family talk about an older man that is "sexy" he is usually dark...
I'm not sure why this is, unless being a "light boy" is thought of as "cute" or "pretty boyish" but not "masculine".
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Mon 24 Nov 2008 21:37 Post subject:
G-Man wrote:
Quote:
They do have their own culture, in some areas there own dialect, etc. Culture is binding them and this culture came (not voluntarily) but due to force by the white power structure.
Based on what I've read, I'd contest this. Their culture emerged despite the white power structure (actually Afrikaner power structure) such as it was/is. It simply evolved over time with little to no consideration by the Afrikaners to whom they are partially tied to culturally. A Coloured identity and culture(s) existed before the rise of Apartheid with the Nationalist Party in 1948.
Oh, these were the first racial segregation laws in South Africa:
From the very beginning van Riebeeck's policy, and
that of his successors, was to reduce to a minimum the
contact between the settlers and the original Hottentot
inhabitants, but the men smuggled and distilled, 'and
trafficked clandestinely with the Natives '.11 Slaves, first
brought to the Cape in 1657,12 arrived regularly in shiploads
during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, and
miscegenation, which in its various forms was to produce
the Coloured people, began early with unions between
Europeans on the one hand and slaves or Hottentots on
the other.13 During the first 20 years of the colony's
existence, no less than 75% of the children born of slave
mothers were half-breeds. 13 But official disapproval was
expressed by Commissary Goske in 1671, and in 1685
Baron Von Rheede prohibited the marriage of Europeans
to persons of full colour, while illicit intercourse between
European men and female slaves or Natives was forbidden
completely.14
Notwithstanding these laws, miscegenation continued.
Large numbers of sailors and soldiers came ashore from
ships calling at the Cape, and these men, together with
other temporary European visitors, easily established forbidden
contacts.14 The authorities were caused great
trouble during the seventeenth century by the drunkenness
and dissipation occasioned by the crude spirits, raw
wine and unbridled licence in numberless inns, taverns and
taps. I 5
'
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