I come from a small town that is composed primarily of blacks, whites, and Haliwa-Saponi. I can honestly tell you we don't determine race where I live by looking at you; unless you fall on an extreme, people determine it by whom you are descended from, or your family name.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is an Haliwa-Saponi?
Dragon horse I understand what you're saying. However remember we live in a society where ODR has become a default way of viewing people. If such a range of people can be included in "Black" I'm sure the opposite can occur. At school I can honestly tell you that to me the distinction between Asian/white mixes become kind of blurry. If some who looks like my aunt sally could be called black without anyone blinking an eye and they had first cousins who clearly dipped to the other side of the color line and then moved north then our minds clearly classify people how we have been conditioned to see them and not how they would visually fit if we took off our cultural lenses. I come from a small town that is composed primarily of blacks, whites, and Haliwa-Saponi. I can honestly tell you we don't determine race where I live by looking at you; unless you fall on an extreme, people determine it by whom you are descended from, or your family name. An outsider would come in and divide our town up totally different than we see it visually but that is because they don't carry our cultural baggage they have their own. I think given time and slow cultural change whiteness will expand much larger than it is now, simply because what is normal to Americans will change. Whiteness in America is essentially averageness.
I agree and I think that's the point most have been trying to make, including DH. My reponse to him didn't mean in the future that mulatto=White, no, but that 'quadroon' and lesser mixes would be White and only White. Definately not Black and not 'mixed' either.
Gone are the days that having any known AA ancestry immediately would get one labeled as 'Black', no matter how 'European' or 'Other' one looked. Today, I feel that one has to 'look Black' AND have recent AA ancestry (esp. a parent) to be considered AA and claimed by AAs. Example - many Blacks did claim Mariah Carey early on, but I haven't heard of many that will claim 1/4 Black Jessica Stroizer (Gossip Girl). They will mention she's part Black, but they stop just shy of calling her a 'sister'. That is just my experience, maybe someone else has a different perspective?
Right now, quads, etc are, unless they say otherwise, usually 'taken as Black/AA' or at the most part 'Other', by many White and Black Americans alike. Few would call them White. One can call themselves 'mixed', but the default AA is still there depending, and White is not an option. Of course, this also depends upon your particluar ethnicity and where you live in America.
Overall, I don't think many Americans would have a problem with a person claiming a non-Black identity (as opposed to a White identity), if that person: 1. Doesn't look 'Black', and 2. doesn't have a Black identified parent.
Dragon horse I understand what you're saying. However remember we live in a society where ODR has become a default way of viewing people. If such a range of people can be included in "Black" I'm sure the opposite can occur. At school I can honestly tell you that to me the distinction between Asian/white mixes become kind of blurry. If some who looks like my aunt sally could be called black without anyone blinking an eye and they had first cousins who clearly dipped to the other side of the color line and then moved north then our minds clearly classify people how we have been conditioned to see them and not how they would visually fit if we took off our cultural lenses. I come from a small town that is composed primarily of blacks, whites, and Haliwa-Saponi. I can honestly tell you we don't determine race where I live by looking at you; unless you fall on an extreme, people determine it by whom you are descended from, or your family name. An outsider would come in and divide our town up totally different than we see it visually but that is because they don't carry our cultural baggage they have their own. I think given time and slow cultural change whiteness will expand much larger than it is now, simply because what is normal to Americans will change. Whiteness in America is essentially averageness.
I agree and I think that's the point most have been trying to make, including DH. My reponse to him didn't mean in the future that mulatto=White, no, but that 'quadroon' and lesser mixes would be White and only White. Definately not Black and not 'mixed' either.
Gone are the days that having any known AA ancestry immediately would get one labeled as 'Black', no matter how 'European' or 'Other' one looked. Today, I feel that one has to 'look Black' AND have recent AA ancestry (esp. a parent) to be considered AA and claimed by AAs. Example - many Blacks did claim Mariah Carey early on, but I haven't heard of many that will claim 1/4 Black Jessica Stroizer (Gossip Girl). They will mention she's part Black, but they stop just shy of calling her a 'sister'. That is just my experience, maybe someone else has a different perspective?
Right now, quads, etc are, unless they say otherwise, usually 'taken as Black/AA' or at the most part 'Other', by many White and Black Americans alike. Few would call them White. One can call themselves 'mixed', but the default AA is still there depending, and White is not an option. Of course, this also depends upon your particluar ethnicity and where you live in America.
Overall, I don't think many Americans would have a problem with a person claiming a non-Black identity (as opposed to a White identity), if that person: 1. Doesn't look 'Black', and 2. doesn't have a Black identified parent.
I agree with you. As the US becomes more racially mixed, the definition of who is white may change. In Puerto Rico, that is certainly what happened. There people who would never be considered White in the USA are accepted as White over there.
I don't get how you qoute so I'll just say that my post to G-man. Lol no I'm not form Hawaii, I'm form Warren County, North Carolina. Its a Native American Group with mixed ancestory, in Holister,NC Which is a small community bordering Warren and Halifax county in NC. Hence the Haliwa which was added later. Saponi is one of the native american groups native to the area to which the Haliwa Saponi Owe a large part of their ancestory. They are also decended from serverla other Native Groups and have strains of Black and White ancestory. I'm actually Black but I have some Haliwa Saponi Relatives in both my father and mothers family(a great grand mother on my mothers side, and I don't know how many on my fathers side his side of the family is a lot more mixed than my mothers). [/quote]
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