Posted: Mon 02 Feb 2009 01:26 Post subject: East Asian genetics??
I've noticed a few people I've talked to reporting they have found some "East Asian" genetic markers showing up in their admixture tests and none of them have any known east asians in their ancestry.
What could explain this? Could this actually be a native american marker since they came from Asia? Could it be the result of the waves of Asian invasions of Europe during the dark ages and middle ages (Mongols, Huns, Bulgars, Magyars, Avars, ect)?
Joined: 30 Mar 2005 {Posts: 1082 } Location: New Jersey
Posted: Mon 02 Feb 2009 17:27 Post subject:
Excellent question! Either possibility (or both possibilities!) you mentioned could have contributed.
Central Asian genes are not uncommon in people of Mediterranean and Eastern European descent. East Asian genes are found sporadically in various regions of Europe, but are found in higher frequencies in eastern Europe, due to the various invasions. All of the Asiatic invaders left some genes behind. Many settled amongst the locals and intermarried with them.
Native Americans often have both Central Asian and East Asian genes. The ancestors of Natives came from various parts of Asia, with important contributions from SW Siberian populations and also Mongolian populations. The latter are very much a mixed people, with genes from East and Central Asia. During the migrations of Central Asians through East Asia to America, there must certainly have been admixture with East Asians.
What's confusing about AncestryByDNA's nomenclature is that they refer to Central Asian markers as "NA" markers, ignoring the fact that true Natives are not solely descended from Central Asians. So, when you see the "NA" label, think "Central Asian" (which can include the SW Siberian area, as mentioned, as well as Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, etc.).
Joined: 07 Oct 2007 {Posts: 248 } Location: United States
Posted: Tue 03 Feb 2009 03:11 Post subject:
Are there any markers at all that can be used to distinguish native americans from central asians? How about South Americans, who I've heard have been there a bit longer?
Joined: 24 May 2007 {Posts: 129 } Location: Danville, VA
Posted: Thu 12 Feb 2009 16:46 Post subject: East Asian and South Asian
After visiting the mixed race community described in my post on the biracial issues forum, I started to wonder about another possible source of East Asian DNA. Several East Indians indentured themselves and came to Virginia, and some of their descendants ended up in northeastern NC. My largest non-European admixture MLE was not on the AncestrybyDNA 2.5 test, but on the EuroDNA 1.0, where I came up with 8% South Asian. The folks at DNAPrint say this is normally a sign of Roma ancestry when it comes up for Americans. In northeast NC it could be more directly from India.
Since my only non-European admixture on the MLE for the AncestrybyDNA 2.5 was 6% East Asian, I wonder if that could be an artifact of Roma or East Indian descent. I spent some time in India and noticed considerable variation in people's looks, with some strikingly East Asian appearances, more in Delhi than Mumbai or Chennai. So if the Indian migrants into Virginia came from certain parts of India-- or the Roma did-- that might also be a source of East Asian DNA. Bengal being easternmost might be the most likely major region to produce such results.
Posted: Thu 12 Feb 2009 18:28 Post subject: Re: East Asian and South Asian
kpauljohnson wrote:
Bengal being easternmost might be the most likely major region to produce such results.
That is very possible indeed. There was quite a bit of passenger traffic between India and the colonies in the 1700s. The St. Augustine FL (Spanish) census of 1790 shows about a half dozen Bengali families living in town--cobblers mostly, as I recall. They had come in during the 20 years when Florida was a British colony.
Come to think of it, one of the founding families of Florida society descends from a Bengali woman. Nancy Gallum was a teenager from Bengal, brought from London to Florida as indentured servant around 1765. She fled the plantation, swam the St. Johns river to Seminole territory and joined the tribe. She became an Indian Indian, so to speak. There she met and married Job Wiggins, the manager of one of the Indian trading posts operated by Panton and Leslie, Inc. Eventually they became wealthy and influential and, as I said, a founding family of Florida.
So I would not at all be surprised to hear that many 18th-century colonists came from India.
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