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Articles about Racism in Pre- & Post Revolutionary Cuba
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triguy
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun 2005 03:12    Post subject: Articles about Racism in Pre- & Post Revolutionary Cuba Reply with quote

I really like the last article in particular.

Articles on racism in Cuba:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0934934339/102-7999539-6061719?v=glance
http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y01/may01/18e1.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/pr/red/cuba/cuba_anti_racism.htm
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/6813598.htm
http://www.hope.edu/delatorre/articles/jhlt.html

In the last article, MASKING HISPANIC RACISM: A CUBAN CASE STUDY

Dr. Miguel A. De La Torre:

Quote:
Paradoxically, while the African man is constructed as a non-macho, he is feared for the potential of asserting his machismo, particularly with white Cuban women. White women who succumb to the black man, it was thought, are not responsible for their actions because they were bewitched through African black magic.[41] Thus, attraction becomes witchcraft and rape. Likewise, the seductive negra (Negress) is held responsible for compromising the virtues of the white men.[42] A popular Cuban saying was "there is no sweet tamarind fruit, nor a virgin mulatto girl." Fanon captures the white Caribbean's sentiments when he wrote:

As for the Negroes, they have tremendous sexual powers. What do you expect, with all the freedom they have in their jungles! They copulate at all times and in all places. They are really genital. They have so many children that they cannot even count them. Be careful, or they will flood us with little mulattoes . . . One is no longer aware of the Negro but only of a penis; the Negro is eclipsed. He is turned into a penis. He is a penis. (italics mine)[43]

The African-Cuban may be a walking penis, but a penis that lacks potency. White Cubans project their own fears and forbidden desires upon the African-Cuban through a fixation with the black penis which threatens white civilization. The black penis is kept separate from power and privilege that come only to Cubans constructed as white. Casal documents this white Cuban fixation with the black penis in recounting oral history of blacks being hung on lamp posts by their genitals in the central plazas throughout Cuba during the 1912 massacre of blacks.[44] The massacre was fueled by news reports of so-called black revolt leading to the rape of white women. This peculiar way of decorating the lamp posts perfectly express the sexual mythology created by Cuban white racism.


I find it hilarious this absurd fear that whites have about non-white men whether African, Indian, or Amerindian all in search for the glorious white woman. On the one hand, the racist want to categorize non-white men as boys, then on the other male sex machines who can easily sway white women, thus ending white purity. Of course, historically, it was the white men taking advantage of aboriginal or enslaved women. But history and logic rarely collide easily in the minds of bigots.
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oevega
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun 2005 17:40    Post subject: Myth Reply with quote

Just a question.

When was that thing written. And for whom.

Regards,

Omar Vega
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triguy
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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jun 2005 01:28    Post subject: Miguel De La Torre's Masking Hispanic Racism Reply with quote

Here's the Google search link for you to research Dr. De La Torres' work:

http://www.google.com/search?lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=MASKING%20HISPANIC%20RACISM%3A%20A%20CUBAN%20CASE%20STUDY
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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jun 2005 04:16    Post subject: Re: Miguel De La Torre's Masking Hispanic Racism Reply with quote

triguy wrote:
Here's the Google search link for you to research Dr. De La Torres' work:

http://www.google.com/search?lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=MASKING%20HISPANIC%20RACISM%3A%20A%20CUBAN%20CASE%20STUDY


I search for it and the first thing I found out was this:

"The very term Spanish Cuban tends to hide the fact that Spaniards themselves have a strong African heritage"

So I found out the ideas of the fellow are not very serious at all. The African heritage he talks about is the people of Magreg: Morocco and Mauritania. The ones known as the Moors and that look pretty much similar to Spaniards, Arabs, and Southern Italians. Those are the AFRICANS. And they concluded that those Africans are exaclty the same that the people that lives South of the Sahara, and that are the ancestors of the Blacks of the New World.

Modern DNA analysis have shown about 1% of South of the Sahara blood in Spaniards, which means the actual number of Black in Spain should have never reach more that 1 in 1.000 people. Which is very low indeed, and that might have been carry by non-Black people to Spain as well.

Also I found the skillfull handling at manipulating numbers when they say African descendents are 70% in Cuba. That trick is very good to convince people by is a fallacy. Cuba very well can be 70% African descendent, 90% European descendent, and 50% Native descendend!!! But the numbers don't add 100%!! So, to classify populations one has to segment them and determine the genetic proportion in each group. As far as I know, Cuba is 50% Mulatto and 50% White with all the degrees in between.

Therefore I concluded that source is just Afrocentric rethoric.

I hope I could find a more serious and reliable source for so interesting issue.

Regards,

Omar Vega
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triguy
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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jun 2005 05:28    Post subject: Racial/Ethnic Breakdown Reply with quote

Here's the breakdown of Ethnicity in Cuba according to the CIA World Factbook:

mulatto 51%, white 37%, black 11%, Chinese 1%

Dismissing someone's work as 'afrocentric' because you don't agree with the author's conclusion without learning more about the source and the totality of author's work doesn't seem quite fair. Dr. De La Torre's resume can be found here:
http://www.hope.edu/academic/religion/delatorre/cvitae.html

Why don't you write to Dr. De La Torre and find out his real motivations?
(Looking at the majority of his works, the professor seems more focused on religion than "race" or Afrocentrism.)

As for the numbers, when talking of people being descendants of groups of people, the numbers don't have to add up unless you are talking in terms of "pure" people. In reality, there is the intersection of people. So, it's possible for "whites" to have African and/or Native ancestry as it is for the others to any other combination. Unless, of course, you believe in the ODR, then God knows how those number shift around.

Here's the breakdown of Ethnicity according to the CIA World Factbook:

mulatto 51%, white 37%, black 11%, Chinese 1%

As for the moors, they were, as A.D. Powell has pointed out, mixed-race. Pretending that Subsaharan people did not mix with North Africans runs afoul of the historic Arab slave trade. (BTW, have you taken a look at the Saudi Arabian Royal family? The Crown Prince could could walk the streets of Memphis and fit right into the crowd. So, could the Saudi Ambassador, Prince Bandar.)

In contrast, what of Portugal where the royal house freely wed its African slaves. Through those unions we were given Queen Charlotte, Sophia of Mecklenburg-Streilitz, the biracial wife of Britain's King George III.

Also what do you think is worse: Eurocentrism or Afrocentrism? Given that the former has been the defacto accepted philosophy and theology since 1492, I'm not exactly impressed with its child, white supremacy.

Having travelled in Latin America, I have been saddened by the obsession with rubias, the fair skinned, blonde ideal of womanhood. How does an "india" or "negrita" or "morena" or "parda" or "mullata" woman ever measure up to an impossible and warped sense of beauty.

When walking in Caracas, surrounded by so many brown, mixed-race people, all of the advertisements on billboards for products featured "whites." It is was surreal in comparison to the US where we see whites, "blacks," mixed-race, Latinos, and Asians.
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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jun 2005 14:27    Post subject: Re: Racial/Ethnic Breakdown Reply with quote

Hi Triguy:

You won't believe it but is a pleasure to discuss with you, in friendly terms, of course. As I say before, you are a "hard bone to bite", because you seem to know a lot more about Latin America than the average American. Most Americans don't know us as well as you do.
However, my Spanish ancestors (that part of the family tree) gave me a "hard head", so let continue.


triguy wrote:
Here's the breakdown of Ethnicity in Cuba according to the CIA World Factbook:

mulatto 51%, white 37%, black 11%, Chinese 1%



That's a lot better. Those statistics are a lot closer to reality. You can see from them that most peoples are mixed, but that there are also an important segment that is still European. And an important minority that is still pure African. As the matter of fact I know Cubans very well because they migrate to my country. I have notice that "white" cubans are a lot whiter than average Chilean for the simple fact we are mostly mestizos (Native-Europeans). But also we know that "Black" cubans are lighter that Africans because they are mixtures as well.

I believe discrimination in Cuba is mainly against the pure African minority, and that is something we percive in the "Mulatto"countries of Latin America: Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Brazil and even Haiti. In those countries "colorism" is very important. So much that in Dominican Republic there is a saying that says "whiteness is a gift of God". I have never hear something more racist than that.

Quote:

Dismissing someone's work as 'afrocentric' because you don't agree with the author's conclusion without learning more about the source and the totality of author's work doesn't seem quite fair. Dr. De La Torre's resume can be found here:
http://www.hope.edu/academic/religion/delatorre/cvitae.html

Why don't you write to Dr. De La Torre and find out his real motivations?
(Looking at the majority of his works, the professor seems more focused on religion than "race" or Afrocentrism.)


I have developed a distrust for racial idealogies that make me be alert. In Latin America we have suffered Nazis ideologies for too long. Those ideas that claim that mixed people is inferior have affected us quite a lot. Now, I consider Afrocentrism is just another Nazi ideology of a different color. They are trying to rewrite Latin American past with ideologies, and I won't accept that. Look at these lies:

Olmecs were Blacks. Emiliano Zapata was Black. Tango was a Black invention. Mexicans are Blacks, etc., etc.

Those are not facts. It is just a political agenda.

Quote:

As for the numbers, when talking of people being descendants of groups of people, the numbers don't have to add up unless you are talking in terms of "pure" people. In reality, there is the intersection of people. So, it's possible for "whites" to have African and/or Native ancestry as it is for the others to any other combination. Unless, of course, you believe in the ODR, then God knows how those number shift around.

Here's the breakdown of Ethnicity according to the CIA World Factbook:

mulatto 51%, white 37%, black 11%, Chinese 1%

Totally agree

Quote:

As for the moors, they were, as A.D. Powell has pointed out, mixed-race. Pretending that Subsaharan people did not mix with North Africans runs afoul of the historic Arab slave trade. (BTW, have you taken a look at the Saudi Arabian Royal family? The Crown Prince could could walk the streets of Memphis and fit right into the crowd. So, could the Saudi Ambassador, Prince Bandar.)


That's better. Moors were Magreb people and they have a distinctive aspect we do know. The cline theory explain very well why they have an intermediate aspect between European and African.

Quote:

In contrast, what of Portugal where the royal house freely wed its African slaves. Through those unions we were given Queen Charlotte, Sophia of Mecklenburg-Streilitz, the biracial wife of Britain's King George III.


That's more in the side of a lay. That Queen Charlotte has African ancestors is a fact. That Portugueses are Blacks is another common lay of Afrocentrists. I know Portuguese peoples and although they have a Black minority of recent times, comming from ex-colonies, Portugueses as a whole are just another Mediterranean people that look very much like most Southern Europeans.
Also, the fact that Queen Charlotte was African descendent does not make Queen Elizabeth a Nubian. Or does it?

Quote:

Also what do you think is worse: Eurocentrism or Afrocentrism? Given that the former has been the defacto accepted philosophy and theology since 1492, I'm not exactly impressed with its child, white supremacy.


1492 is an Spanish date, not an European date. Please, Spainiards were not Europeans until they enter the Europen Union!!! Eurocentrism and Afrocentrism are both wrong!

Quote:

Having travelled in Latin America, I have been saddened by the obsession with rubias, the fair skinned, blonde ideal of womanhood. How does an "india" or "negrita" or "morena" or "parda" or "mullata" woman ever measure up to an impossible and warped sense of beauty.


Yes, we love blondy women because we consider them to be very exhotic. What wrong with that? However, we don't miss the opportunity of being in love with an "indiecita", "negrita", "morenita", "mulatita" o "chinita" if we have a chance. Actually, our dream is to have an harem Smile
Although our religion (mainly Catholic) forbidde us that, deep inside our minds we still feel Moors Smile

Quote:

When walking in Caracas, surrounded by so many brown, mixed-race people, all of the advertisements on billboards for products featured "whites." It is was surreal in comparison to the US where we see whites, "blacks," mixed-race, Latinos, and Asians.


Commercial advertisement appeal to the dreams of people. If one does not see blondy girls but on TV, and associate blondies with successful gringos, guess what people is dreaming about.

Regards,

Omar Vega
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triguy
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2005 03:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have developed a distrust for racial idealogies that make me be alert. In Latin America we have suffered Nazis ideologies for too long. Those ideas that claim that mixed people is inferior have affected us quite a lot. Now, I consider Afrocentrism is just another Nazi ideology of a different color. They are trying to rewrite Latin American past with ideologies, and I won't accept that. Look at these lies:

Olmecs were Blacks. Emiliano Zapata was Black. Tango was a Black invention. Mexicans are Blacks, etc., etc.


But why does that prevent you from writing to Dr. De La Torre to understand whether or not he really is a hard afrocentrist? Again, if one says that 70% of Cubans have African ancestry, the combination of blacks and mullatos reaches that number. Similarly, the combination of mullatos and whites reaches almost 90%, again almost the same as Dr. De La Torre's numbers.

As I stated, if you review the link to the professor's resume, you'll see that his specialty is religion. From the titles of his work, only a tiny percentage have anything to do with "race." Thus, I find it hard to believe that he is a hardcore afrocentrist.

Quote:

I believe discrimination in Cuba is mainly against the pure African minority, and that is something we percive in the "Mulatto"countries of Latin America: Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Brazil and even Haiti. In those countries "colorism" is very important. So much that in Dominican Republic there is a saying that says "whiteness is a gift of God". I have never hear something more racist than that.


Although I agree that colorism is part of the bigotry present in Latin America and Cuba, I'm not sure of that mullatos escape discrimination. Batista, the Cuban president before Fidel Castro, was barred from entry into most Havana's exclusive, whites-only yacht clubs. Racism has decreased since Bastita's day.

Quote:
That's more in the side of a lay. That Queen Charlotte has African ancestors is a fact. That Portugueses are Blacks is another common lay of Afrocentrists. I know Portuguese peoples and although they have a Black minority of recent times, comming from ex-colonies, Portugueses as a whole are just another Mediterranean people that look very much like most Southern Europeans.
Also, the fact that Queen Charlotte was African descendent does not make Queen Elizabeth a Nubian. Or does it?


I'm not sure what you mean by a "lay." Do you mean "lie"? I've never heard that Portugal was a "black" country. However, it is true that the royal family of Portugal commonly married Africans. Given that the enslavement of Africans did not end in Portugal until 1755, it stands to reason that more than just the royal family has African ancestry. That, of course, does not make Portugal a "black" nation. Just helps to prove that that genes flow everywhere.

Frankly, I've never heard anyone claim Queen Elizabeth called "black." However, I do think that pointing out that she has African ancestry is important in eliminating stereotypes. (How many one droppers would choke if they new Queen Victoria's line had African blood. Would all the girls stop swooning over Princes William and Harry?)


Quote:
1492 is an Spanish date, not an European date. Please, Spainiards were not Europeans until they enter the Europen Union!!! Eurocentrism and Afrocentrism are both wrong!


Um, 1492 is year in recognized global calendar. So, how could it not be a European date? I'm not sure what you mean.

As for Spain not being a part of Europe, isn't it on the European continent? Wasn't Spain a colony of Rome? Didn't Pope protest Henry VIII's mistreatment of Catherine of Aragon? I don't understand how Spain, which was considered at one point the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world not be a European country.


Quote:
Commercial advertisement appeal to the dreams of people. If one does not see blondy girls but on TV, and associate blondies with successful gringos, guess what people is dreaming about.


That doesn't make it right. In fact, it's horrible to make people dream to be "white." Why shouldn't people find beauty in themselves? What you describe as a dream is colonialism of the psyche and poison for the soul.

In Canada, France, and Germany (along with other countries) there are limits on the film, TV, and music content from the United States that may air in their countries. All of these countries believe that their cultures are distinct and should not be replaced with American culture.

Being "white" should NOT be something that one aspires to be. That's at the core of white supremacy: white is more beautiful and more intelligent than anything else.

Don't you realize that this "dream" is the nightmare that made Michael Jackson mutilate himself through surgery and skin bleaching until he looks inhuman? In the U.S., advertisers tailor their ads to different communities to tie into their aspirations: showing a Latino driving a Cadillac or an African American running a business. By seeing people like themselves, people can see that there is a place in their society for them. They can be a doctor, lawyer, scientist, or astronaut.

Yellow, brown, black, olive, and copper skin are just as beautiful as white skin.
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2005 06:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
lmecs were Blacks. Emiliano Zapata was Black. Tango was a Black invention. Mexicans are Blacks, etc., etc.


Yes. And I've heard
Cleopatra was a black African. Beethoven was black. Mozart was black. The reason that many noses are chipped off of ancient Egyptian relics is that white archaeologists who found them wanted to hide their African noses.

Thomas Edison I have heard is Mexican.

Can't think of anything else.



Quote:
Yellow, brown, black, olive, and copper skin are just as beautiful as white skin


In my opinion more so. Super white skin where blue veins show underneath really turns me off.

B
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2005 11:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

triguy wrote:
Batista, the Cuban president before Fidel Castro, was barred from entry into most Havana's exclusive, whites-only yacht clubs.

This is the second time that you have posted this claim, and this is the second time that I ask for a source. In the interests of your own credibility, I urge you to either provide a source or stop making the claim.
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2005 14:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

fwsweet wrote:
triguy wrote:
Batista, the Cuban president before Fidel Castro, was barred from entry into most Havana's exclusive, whites-only yacht clubs.

This is the second time that you have posted this claim, and this is the second time that I ask for a source. In the interests of your own credibility, I urge you to either provide a source or stop making the claim.


I've read similar things about Batista's treatment. Earlier Triguy mentioned the existence of a branch of the Klu Klux Klan in Cuba. It did exist, but was short-lived.

For further reading on the issues of race and racism in Cuba (pre and post revolutionary), I suggest that people on the board read Alejandro De La Fuente's A Nation for All: Race, Inequality, and Politics in Twentieth-Century Cuba (Envisioning Cuba). The author discusses the existence of the Klu Klux Klan Kubano in the 20s and 30s in Cuba. I just started it. It's an excellent read, although there is much to anger both those who romanticize Castro's Cuba and those who look fondly at the pre-Castro days.

Another book I recommend is Robin Moore's Nationalizing Blackness: Afrocubanismo and Artistic Revolution in Havana, 1920-1940.

Finally, for those who wish to know how some black Cubans feel about the current state of race relations in Cuba (as much as anyone can openly express themselves in communist Cuba), I suggest reading Afro-Cuban Voices: On Race and Identity in Contemporary Cuba.

All three, in my opinion, provide a balanced and nuanced presentation of the history of race, racism and race relations, in Cuba without projecting U.S. conceptions of blackness/whiteness and racism onto the Cuban situation.
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2005 14:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-Man wrote:
I've read similar things about Batista's treatment. Earlier Triguy mentioned the existence of a branch of the Klu Klux Klan in Cuba. It did exist, but was short-lived.

My point was not that dark Cubans were/are mistreated by light Cubans. My point is that Fulgencio Batista was a ruthless dictator with life-or-death power. I was in Cuba when he was in power. He could order a club or casino shut down in a heartbeat, and could do so at a whim with no accountability to anyone. The notion that he would arrive at a club with his bodyguard platoon of machine-pistol-armed soldiers and be turned away at the door by some two-bit bouncer, then slink away with his tail between his legs is ludicrous. Anyone who openly defied the man had a life-span measured in minutes. I want to see a specific source (if a book, then give the page number) that says that the owner of a private club denied him entry and was still alive 24 hours later.
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2005 15:45    Post subject: Fulgencio Batista Reply with quote

I have also heard this story about Batista supposedly being denied entry to "whites only" clubs. This is probably an urban legend invented by North Americans.
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2005 16:55    Post subject: Professor's De la Torre Reply with quote

triguy wrote:
As I stated, if you review the link to the professor's resume, you'll see that his specialty is religion. From the titles of his work, only a tiny percentage have anything to do with "race." Thus, I find it hard to believe that he is a hardcore afrocentrist.


I'll take a look

Quote:

Although I agree that colorism is part of the bigotry present in Latin America and Cuba, I'm not sure of that mullatos escape discrimination. Batista, the Cuban president before Fidel Castro, was barred from entry into most Havana's exclusive, whites-only yacht clubs. Racism has decreased since Bastita's day.


I think that argument lacks a base. Batista was a brute, regardless of race. I doubt anyone could close him the door. I know the reality of Cuba and you don't see there segregated peoples. Most people is mixed and they have relatives of every shade. The problem of Cuba, I believe, is not racism but poverty at painful levels.

Quote:

Frankly, I've never heard anyone claim Queen Elizabeth called "black." However, I do think that pointing out that she has African ancestry is important in eliminating stereotypes. (How many one droppers would choke if they new Queen Victoria's line had African blood. Would all the girls stop swooning over Princes William and Harry?)


I don't remember the reference -I did not think at that time it was important- but I recall the Queen herself recognized that branch of her family tree. Yes, it would be very interesting to know the reaction of one-droppers. What is more symbolic of the White aristhocracy than the British Royal Family?

Quote:

Um, 1492 is year in recognized global calendar. So, how could it not be a European date? I'm not sure what you mean.


1492 is an important date because it changed the world: (1) It was the time when Christians recovered Spain; marking the beginning of the end of Islamic imperialism; (2) It was the year the Spanish Jews were forced to convert or expulsed from Spain; marking the worst injustice they've never done and the beginning of Spain's decline; (3) It was the year of the "discovery" (for Europeans) of America.

All these three events were done by Spaniards, not Europeans as a whole.

That date, for better of worst, marks the beginning of modern Spain, and the beginning of the "new race" that today is known as the Hispanics.
Is our date. I believe so.

Quote:

That doesn't make it right. In fact, it's horrible to make people dream to be "white." Why shouldn't people find beauty in themselves? What you describe as a dream is colonialism of the psyche and poison for the soul.


I don't believe is colonialism at all. It is just a vicious circle between the business men and the publicity agencies. Actually, not all the advertisements in Latin America select only blondies. Certain mall chains, fashion and telecommunication companies are the ones that insist in Nordish beauty.

But Latino men also find Nordish women very beauty. I believe that's an heritage from the old Arabs of the cammel carivans, who always dreamed of pretty pale women, and that in the Middle Ages imported them from Northern Europe and Russia.

A Chilean mall chain -I believe it was Ripley- installed a branch in Peru not long ago, and they received a demand because of the blond-only publicity they were shown in Peru. Perhaps the day will come when we won't see blondies anymore on TV. Perhaps we will miss those ladies Smile

Quote:


In Canada, France, and Germany (along with other countries) there are limits on the film, TV, and music content from the United States that may air in their countries. All of these countries believe that their cultures are distinct and should not be replaced with American culture.



Well. What you may not be aware of is that most blondie blue-eyed women that appear in Latino TV are Latinas as well. They are local people.
Xuxa, Valeria Mazza, Josefa Ibssen, are all local women that look like sweedish girls. Abroad people don't know but there are many blonds in Latin America. And that people who have features as blue-eyes or green-eyes are not uncommon either.

So the supply of blond models is usually satisfied with local women. In Brazil and Argentine you will find them by the millions. And in other countries there are always enough Nordish looking models to make those commercials.

Quote:


Being "white" should NOT be something that one aspires to be. That's at the core of white supremacy: white is more beautiful and more intelligent than anything else.



Well. Latin Americans don't believe whites are more intelligent or supperior in moral terms at all. In the case of beauty we appreciate it in all races and peoples. Beauty is armony and that is not the privilege of a single race.

Quote:


Don't you realize that this "dream" is the nightmare that made Michael Jackson mutilate himself through surgery and skin bleaching until he looks inhuman?



Latinos would never ever do that. We are proud of satisfy the three rules of Latino machos: (1) To be ugly; (2) To smell bad; (3) To be very hairy Smile Well, those were the rules of men up to some generations ago Smile

Quote:


In the U.S., advertisers tailor their ads to different communities to tie into their aspirations: showing a Latino driving a Cadillac or an African American running a business. By seeing people like themselves, people can see that there is a place in their society for them. They can be a doctor, lawyer, scientist, or astronaut.



Yes, in the United States every people lives in an world for its group. Every sheep with its couple, as would we say in Spanish. Every one in his own Guetto. That's sad as well.

Quote:


Yellow, brown, black, olive, and copper skin are just as beautiful as white skin.



I agree. However -that must be genetics I think- althought Latinos appreciate the beauty of women of any race, they get mad with Marylin Monroe Smile

Regards,

Omar Vega
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2005 17:55    Post subject: Cathy Freeman Reply with quote

Quote:

Yes. And I've heard
Cleopatra was a black African. Beethoven was black. Mozart was black. The reason that many noses are chipped off of ancient Egyptian relics is that white archaeologists who found them wanted to hide their African noses.

Thomas Edison I have heard is Mexican.

Can't think of anything else.


Hi Dear Liana:

Have you heard that Walt Disney was really a Spaniard?

Well, I believe there have been many people of African ancestry in the history of Europe and the Americas that are never mentioned. I do not know why. For example: Ludovico the Moor, so important for the Italian Renassence; Saint Martin of Porres, the peruvian saint; Aleijandhino, the Brazilian barroque sculptor; Alexander Dummas the French writter, etc.

Perhaps the problem is that whites always claim they developed civilization. But that is not true. At least if one consider that by white they mean germanic. Civilization started in Mesopotamia, Egypt and India, all of them countries that does not fit with the image that "white americans" have of themselves.

Besides, what if one people did not develop a civilization at all. Does it means that people is inferior?

No! That's absolutely false. Intelligence and artistic talent is evenly distributed across the globe. And the Native of the Amazons, the Koisan of Africa, the dravidians of India or the Aborigines of Australia, all of them have the same potential than the so called "civilizated men".

What one needs to developed advanced science or superb arts is not intelligence alone but money. We have an excess of inteligence in this world, what we lack is money. Those resources are needed to finance research, art works, and anything that the "superior" civilizations produces. Without money no "rocket science" is possible.

For me the best example of this is Cathy Freeman, the Australian aboriguine runner that won the olympic medal in 2000 games of Australia.

http://www.geocities.com/geetee/bios/cathy.html

The merith of Cathy was to show Australian Aboriguines were able to fight and win. With her effort she show the whole world Australian Aboriguines are as human as you and me. She show the Australians what they really are: people that deserve to be treated as such.
When she won that medal I cried. I really did because she and her people deserved it so much. In that way justice came after all those centuries of suffering. That, and nothing less, is Cathy for me.

I love Cathy very much.

Regards,

Omar Vega
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2005 18:02    Post subject: Battista Reply with quote

Quote:
have also heard this story about Batista supposedly being denied entry to "whites only" clubs. This is probably an urban legend invented by North Americans.


Hi all

I have heard this too and Frank I think I can get a source for you

Give me a day or two

If not then I can verify that it is an urban legend if it is

Regards

B


Last edited by Liana on Mon 27 Jun 2005 18:30; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2005 18:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hi Dear Liana:

Have you heard that Walt Disney was really a Spaniard?

Well, I believe there have been many people of African ancestry in the history of Europe and the Americas that are never mentioned. I do not know why. For example: Ludovico the Moor, so important for the Italian Renassence; Saint Martin of Porres, the peruvian saint; Aleijandhino, the Brazilian barroque sculptor; Alexander Dummas the French writter, etc.



Hi Omar

No I had not heard that - Actually I was just pointing up the fact that in other parts of the world, one is not seen as black because of one drop. But afrocentrists have tried to "kidnap" people like Beethoven etc sayign he was black because he supposedly had some black ancestry

If he had black ancestry that is fine - and it is ice as you say for us to hear the whole story. But it is a jump to call him "black" since that is using the American way of defining race. That was all I was saying

B
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2005 22:13    Post subject: Batista begging for acceptance? Reply with quote

Here are some sources for the stories of Batista being excluded from whites-only clubs:


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/castro/peopleevents/e_precastro.html


Quote:
Two Worlds

Racism also blighted Cuban society. The island's private clubs and beaches were segregated. Even President Fulgencio Batista, a mulatto, was denied membership in one of Havana's most exclusive clubs. "One might best summarize the complex situation by saying that urban Cuba had come to resemble a Southern European country (with a living standard as high or surpassing that of France, Spain, Portugal and Greece) while rural Cuba replicated the conditions of other plantation societies in Latin America and the Caribbean," according to analyst Mark Falcoff.



http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/castro/peopleevents/p_batista.html

Quote:
Status Seeker

Batista's return to power did not herald a return to progressivism. He became obsessed with gaining the acceptance of Cuba's upper classes, who had denied him membership into their exclusive social clubs. Increasingly, his energies were devoted to amassing an even greater fortune. Batista opened Havana to large scale gambling, announcing that his government would match, dollar for dollar, any hotel investment over $1 million, which would include a casino license. American mobster Meyer Lansky placed himself at the center of Cuba's gambling operation. At the same time, Batista sponsored massive construction projects -- the Havana-Varadero highway, the Rancho Boyeros airport, train lines, an underwater tunnel.


[url]
http://www.fombrun.com/article.php/20050226I151[/url]

Quote:
The American corporate presence was strong and corrupt. The racist tradition of the USA of those days was firmly transplanted in Havana. Segregation was more subtle but it existed. President Batista, himself of mixed blood, was not accepted in some private clubs. Gambling was in the hands of the American mafia. A good portion of the poor could not fend for themselves, and abuses of power and privileges by the establishment provoked outcries among the less fortunate.. An important part of the peasant population could not read or write…



http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/Tapes/Tapes/TapeTranscripts/Q952.html

Quote:
There was clearly defined color line in Cuba, a product of 400 years of colonialism that included 60 years under the United States’ direct influence, particularly the Southern United States, which made Cuma— Cuba a miniature of a Southern state. No blacks were allowed in the American hotels here, and the Havana Club, the yacht club wouldn’t even admit President Batista, who was considered a mulatto" and yet he would be— I don’t know, Batista is light— light-skinned— This young lady, stand up. Yeah. Batista was lighter than she. And he could not even go on the beaches or in the uh yacht club. He was the president. He was a dictator, under capitalism, but the president— the prejudice was so ingrained that even he couldn’t override it. Now racism is severely punished with fines and jail sentences. It hasn’t disappeared altogether, but it is almost gone.



http://hnn.us/readcomment.php?id=25129

Quote:

"Are you aware of the mixed blood of many - if not most - of the Cuban Presidents from Batista to Prio to Gomez to Machado?"
Absolutely incorrect. All but one of them were universally recognized as white. Batista, yes, was identified by others (never by himself) as a mulato and as I'm sure you've heard, he was famously snubbed when he was barred from Havana clubs because of his ancestry.
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2005 23:58    Post subject: Three Sources for Batista's Exclusion from Havana Yacht Club Reply with quote

Havana Journal May 23, 2005

Smithsonian Museum of American History opens Celia Cruz exhibit

By Teresa Wiltz | Washington Post Staff Writer

To describe Celia Cruz is to invoke hyperbole: She was La Reina de Salsa , the Queen of Salsa, she was thunder and lightning, she was a force of Mama Nature wrapped in chocolate skin, broad of nose and broader of smile, a woman for whom joy was everything and the only thing. When she growled her trademark " Azúcar! ", you knew that she was talking about much more than sugar, but referring as well to her ancestors, slaves who worked the sugar fields of Cuba, of escaping hard times, of an approach to living: The sweeter, the better.

Life was made that much sweeter by some ghetto-fabulous wigs, over-the-top duds and shoes that would do Imelda proud. So much so that at her wake in Miami, there were pauses in the action so that la Reina could make two final costume changes. She would've wanted it that way.
And now, nearly two years after her death from brain cancer, the National Museum of American History has launched a retrospective, "Azúcar! The Life and Music of Celia Cruz," spanning the Cuban singer's six-decade career as a much-adored singer. She made more than 80 recordings and collected five Grammys, the Presidential Medal of Arts and three honorary doctorates. Curated by Marvette Perez, the exhibition will travel the country.

It begins with her beginnings: She was born Ursula Hilaria Celia Caridad Cruz Alfonso in 1925 in the working-class Havana neighborhood Santos Suarez. Her father, Simon, wanted her to be a teacher. Singing wasn't an honorable profession. She did it anyway. There are pictures of her as a pouty baby, as a serious girl facing her first Communion and as a beaming, pony-tailed young chanteuse in the '40s, singing son and rumba, Cuba's native rhythms. From there, it traces her move to Mexico and her defection to the United States.

There is footage of her performing with Tito Puente, the New York-born godfather of salsa who gave her an orchestra. All of this is lovingly and exhaustively detailed, with archival video footage, nine costumes, scads of wigs, her crazy, heel-less platform shoes, never-before published photos, music videos and a moving, 12-minute documentary of her life, with Gloria Estefan, Quincy Jones, David Byrne and Johnny Pacheco, among others, talking about her fabulousness. (Then, too, there is a heartbreaking interview with her husband of 42 years, Pedro Knight, a man clearly unmoored by the death of his wife, who says that throughout their marriage they were together "25 hours of the day.")

It's such an exhaustive exhibition that it's surprising, and disappointing, that the not-so-happy moments in her life are glossed over. Yes, she left Cuba, six months after Fidel Castro took over. But there's no explanation of why she left, beyond that the revolution brought a lot of changes for musicians. (Well, yeah, and um, everybody else on the island, too.) There is, however, a picture of her leaving the country, standing by an airplane she's about to board. And she looks royally ticked, a departure from her normally sunny demeanor. You look at it, and you want to know: What happened there? Perhaps we can find a hint in her song "Cuando Salí De Cuba," ("When I Left Cuba"): "When I left Cuba / I left my heart / I left my love. . . . " (She never went back. She tried, when her mother died in 1962, but Castro refused to let her into the country, a decision that broke her heart and hardened her resolve to never return.)

The exhibition gives only passing mention to troubles that she encountered in her new homeland: There is a copy of her wedding certificate to trumpeter Knight, the love of her life. They wed in 1962 in Connecticut. His profession is listed as "musician"; hers, "housework." By this time, she was already a household name throughout Latin America and had performed throughout the States, as well.

The exhibition also calls for a little more context, particularly along matters of race. Before the revolution -- and some say, after it, as well -- Cuba was a country rived by race. As an Afro-Cubana living in a country where even the mulatto dictator Fulgencio Batista was barred from joining the Yacht Club there, Cruz must have encountered racism. One of her first performing gigs was singing with a group of dancers called "Las Mulattas del Fuego" ("The Fiery Mulattas"). Then, too, there are pictures of dancers in the Tropicana, a famous nightclub, prancing with dolls in blackface.

Context is needed here, because Cruz embraced her blackness with gusto, often performing in afro wigs and dashiki caftans in the height of the '60s and '70s, always acknowledging her African roots in her music, and singing, "I'm so proud of being black / I'm so proud of my black people." (She also had fun with it, too, singing boastfully in her last album, "La Negra Tiene Tumbao," that is, "The Black Lady's Got Funk.") And at the same time, she transcended race, becoming, as her manager Omer Padillo-Sid described her, "the passport to Latin America," with Latinos of all colors adoring her with a fervor on par with fans of the Beatles, Elvis, Madonna and the Rolling Stones.

Azúcar! The Life and Music of Celia Cruz , a bilingual exhibition at the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History, opens today on the Mall at 14th Street and Constitution Avenue NW. Open daily 10 a.m.-5:30 p.m., except Christmas Day. Admission is free. Call 202-633-1000 or visit http://americanhistory.si.edu/celiacruz


Cuba's struggle against racism
By Roberto Jorquera
[from Green Left Weekly, March 11 1998]

Since 1959, Cuba's revolutionary government has embarked on the task of eliminating centuries of racial prejudice dating from the arrival of the Spanish in 1492, when the indigenous people of the island were massacred and the black slave trade was introduced.

To gain a full appreciation of the advances that have been achieved in combating racial prejudice in revolutionary Cuba, it is important to have an outline of the history of race relations in Cuba. The major historical periods are the colonial period, the period of the republic 1901-1959 and after the 1959 revolution.

Racism is an ideology that justifies the social practice of racial oppression, of institutionalised inequality based on racial categorisation. The invasion of the Americas following its "discovery" by Christopher Columbus was central to the development of capitalism in Europe. After the invasion it was necessary for the colonial ruling class to develop racist bigotry to justify the oppression of the indigenous people and the development of the slave trade.

Since the victory of the revolution, racist oppression has been systematically combated and defeated. However it would be utopian to suggest that individual racial prejudices do not still exist in sections of the population. The Cuban revolution laid the economic and social foundations for the effective elimination of racism, but, with increasing political and economic attacks by the US, even the gains that have been achieved face pressures.

The history of Cuba is a history of socio-economic discrimination against the overwhelming majority of the population. This discrimination was based not only on race but more importantly on class, leading many scholars to define the pre-revolutionary period as that of a colour/class system. The post-revolutionary government, therefore, correctly realised that to overcome racism it needed to overcome the class system itself.

Colonial period
One of the difficulties in looking at the issue of race politics in Cuba is in finding the most accurate statistics on who is, or defines themselves as, black. According to the 1955 Cuban census, negroes or mulattos comprised the following percentages of the population: in 55.85 per cent in 1827; 32 per cent in 1899; 25.2 per cent in 1943; and 26.9 per cent in 1953. Though these are the official figures it is important to note that they are based on a person's own definition, rather than on any objective definition of who is considered black, mulatto or white. Such figures are useful, however many other studies suggest that the percentage of blacks or mulattos is closer to 35-40% of the population in the post-revolutionary period.

The 1800s were a period of revolutionary battles, many of which began to raise the issue of race. It was also a time of massacres of the black population, such as that in Aponte in 1812 and La Escalera in 1844. The Cuban revolutionary hero Jos Mart was one of the most outspoken and aggressive campaigners for the liberation of blacks. The ten-year war that erupted in 1868 was begun by Carlos de Cespedes' act of freeing his slaves, opening the way for a greater political role for blacks.

The right-wing backlash which promoted a "fear of the black" was answered by Mart in 1868: "There can be no race hatred, because there are no races ... What then is there to fear? ... Shall we fear he who has suffered most in Cuba from the privation of freedom, in the country where the blood he shed for her has made her too dear to be threatened ... The revolution, which has brought together all Cubans, regardless of their colour, whether they come from the continent where the skin burns, or from peoples of a gentler light, will be for all Cubans." It was the battles lead by Mart and others that led to the abolition of slavery in 1886. The late 1880s also led to an increasing involvement of blacks in the struggle for independence, particularly the wars of independence 1895-98.

The republic
The 1901 constitution effectively imposed discriminatory practices which hit blacks the hardest. Voting was restricted to males over 21 years of age who could either read and write, or owned real property valued over 250 pesos, or proved that they had fought in the liberation army. In response to such practices, the Association of Black Voters was formed in 1908, soon after changing its name to the Party of Colour. Part of its platform stated: "Freedom is not asked or begged for, it is won; and rights are not handed out anywhere, rights are fought for and belong to all. If we go on asking for our rights, we will die waiting because we will have lost them."

However, in 1910, the government, in a clear attempt to curtail black political participation, introduced a law banning the formation of political parties on race lines. The banning led to the race war of 1912 that saw a genocide of blacks by the military.

By the turn of the century a systematic form of racial oppression was firmly in place in numerous parts of Cuban society. These included the formation of exclusive social clubs, bars, restaurants, beaches, movie theatres and night clubs. Exclusion was also maintained through income levels. Lourdes Casal, in an article entitled "Race Relations in Contemporary Cuba", writes:

"In Havana, upper class social clubs excluded blacks and mulattos systematically. ](Even Batista, during his term as President of the Republic, was banned at the Havana Yacht Club, the most exclusive of the upper class clubs.) These clubs controlled private beaches in Havana which, therefore, excluded blacks. Middle class clubs, especially those organised around professional associations, admitted those blacks who belonged to the respective professional organisations."

"In Cuban small towns and provincial capitals, segregation was rigidly enforced in formal social life and in the patterns of informal association related to courtship, such as in public parks. The private school system was predominantly, although not totally, white. Elite schools practised racial discrimination but it was hardly necessary because few blacks could afford the high tuition costs and other expenses", writes Casal.

Race discrimination was also evident in occupational distribution, with blacks occupying the overwhelming majority of lower-paid and less skilled jobs in the economy. The republic's immigration policy encouraged white workers from Spain and promoted an assimilationalist policy. The government even went to the extent of introducing a process of reclassification of many mulattos as white, effectively trying to erase Cuba's black history.

Revolutionary period
The victory of the revolution provided the opportunity for a fundamental change in the way in which blacks were treated and the way in which black history and culture was viewed within Cuban society. Casal writes: "The egalitarian and redistributive measures (such as land reform) enacted by the revolutionary government have benefited blacks as the most oppressed sector of the society in the pre-revolutionary social system."

As early as March 1959, Fidel Castro spoke of the need to begin the struggle against racial prejudice. In a speech on March 21, 1959, Castro said: "In all fairness, I must say that it is not only the aristocracy who practise discrimination. There are very humble people who also discriminate. There are workers who hold the same prejudices as any wealthy person, and this is what is most absurd and sad ... and should compel people to meditate on the problem. Why do we not tackle this problem radically and with love, not in a spirit of division and hate? Why not educate and destroy the prejudice of centuries, the prejudice handed down to us from such an odious institution as slavery?"

Castro also acknowledged that the "blood of Africa runs deep in our veins. People's mentality is not yet revolutionary enough. People's mentality is still conditioned by many prejudices and beliefs from the past ... One of the battles which we must prioritise more and more every day ... is the battle to end racial discrimination at the work place ... There are two types of racial discrimination: one is the discrimination on the recreation centres or cultural centres; the other, which is the worst and the first one which we must fight, is racial discrimination in the job."

These remarks led to the Proclamation Against Racism: "We shouldn't have to pass a law to establish a right that should belong to every human being and member of society ... Nobody can consider themselves to be of pure race, much less a superior race. Virtue, personal merit, heroism, generosity, should be the measure of men, not skin colour." Castro then denounced racial discrimination and racial prejudice as "anti-nation". "What the eternal enemies of Cuba and the enemies of this revolution want is for us to be divided into a thousand pieces, thereby to be able to destroy us."

It was clear from the start of the revolution that the new government would look at the race issue more from a class perspective than on purely racial grounds. From the start the revolution introduced various affirmative action programs that helped the most disadvantaged sectors of the population, including women and Afro-Cubans.

The revolution has always prioritised socio-economic changes: they abolished the private heath care and education system which economically discriminated against blacks. The government's introduction of free health care and education has particularly benefited the black population of Cuba, who made up the bulk of the working class.

Castro said in March 1959: "There is discrimination at recreation centres. Why? Because blacks and whites are educated apart. At the public grade school, blacks and whites are together. At the public grade school, blacks and whites learn to live together, like brothers. And if they are together at the public school, they are later together at the recreation centres and at all places." The right wing responded with slogans like "neither black nor red".

On the eve of the revolution, roughly 15 per cent of Cuban primary school children and 30 per cent of high school students attended private schools, which were primarily white. The underfunded and poorly-staffed public education sector further enforced the so called "colour-class system". The segregation of the elite also made it difficult for the development of social networks across racial lines. Castro's comments were a very direct attempt to overcome those problems. Che Guevara also raised the issue in a speech to university students in 1960, stating that the "university must be painted black, worker, campesino".

The situation today
On a political and cultural level the revolution has opened many doors for greater Afro-Cuban involvement and recognition. In April 1976, Castro became the first white Cuban head of state to recognise the mulatto character of Cuban culture and nationhood stating in a speech: "We are a Latin-African people."

Casal writes that: "Cuban culture, which has slowly been evolving during several centuries, is undoubtedly Afro-Hispanic. In spite of the efforts of the white-dominant class, in spite of their resistance, black cultural elements are integrated into Cuban music, Cuban popular lore, Cuban art, poetry, in such fashion that, without their component of black heritage , they would not be what they are, they would not be Cuban. And this must not be seen as a result of an assimilationist option, but rather as a consequence of true mestizaje."

Greater recognition was given to the Afro-Cuban culture with the 1991 decision to allow religious believers into the Cuban Communist Party. This change particularly affected Afro-Cubans and further opened the door to political participation through being allowed to be nominated for party membership.

Housing
Prior to 1959, blacks tended to be concentrated in the most dilapidated areas of Havana. However the revolution immediately reduced rents by 50 per cent and eventually ownership was granted to tenants. Thus, more blacks now own their houses in Cuba than any other country in the world.

One indicator of the level of people's consciousness on racial issues is that of inter-racial unions. Thirty-nine years of revolution has produced structural changes that have placed young people in daily contact with others of all races, but housing patterns and family ties continue to shape the kinds of inter-racial relationships they form.

Nadine Fernndez, a doctoral candidate in anthropology at the University of California, spent two years in Cuba in 1992-93, gathering information on the issue, which culminated in an article titled "The Color Of Love: Young Inter-racial Couples in Cuba". Though Fernndez admits that prejudices still exist she makes it clear that since the revolution's victory there has been a steady increase in the numbers of inter-racial unions. There are many reasons for this, primarily the increased social mobility that blacks have enjoyed since 1959.

"Parents and grandparents built their lives and families around the revolution, integrating to a greater or lesser extent the revolution's struggle for racial, class and sexual equality. Often parents and grandparents find themselves holding contradictory views on these issues - caught between a legacy of discrimination and revolutionary ideas of equality", writes Fernndez.

Her study found that there was a level of prejudice among the older generation when it came to inter-racial unions, particularly white women with black men. However the number of inter-racial marriages varies geographically. In the Carraguao section of Havana a survey found that 32 per cent of the marriages were inter-racial, while nationwide the proportion is only 14 per cent according to the 1981 census.

The structural changes that the revolution has undertaken in the social and economic sectors have fundamentally changed the social and economic inequalities that had plagued Cuban society during centuries of slavery, colonialism and neo-colonialism.

Since 1959, the revolution has opened the door to an ever increasing level of racial integration in all spheres of social and economic life. However, racial prejudice has not disappeared in Cuban society. It is still around particularly in a section of the older generation, but such views that do not receive much attention. The Cuban revolution clearly provides the example that racism can only be fought and undermined through a fundamental change in the social, economic and political structures of a society along socialist lines.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Miami Herald
Sun, Sep. 21, 2003

THE REVOLUTION AND RACISM

Despite claims of equality for all, inequities persist, many Cubans say

BY DAKARAI AARONS
Posted on Sun, Sep. 21, 2003

In a section of Habana Vieja, a 20-something man sits at the base of the Catedral de La Habana dressed in red and black. A black knitted hat with ``Canada emblazoned on it covers his fuzzy cornrows. Alan dresses his best to look the part of a tourist. But it doesn't fool the armed policemen who routinely pass by to make sure he isn't talking to tourists.

In the warm January sun, Alan, who asked that his last name not be used, laughs with his friends, who, like him, sit outside the cathedral every day after work, looking for tourists with whom they can practice their English.

When the conversation turns to race, however, the black electrical technician stops laughing.

``We are not free, he says. ``Listen to me when I tell you that.

When President Fidel Castro's revolutionary regime took over in 1959, the government changed laws to curb Jim Crow-style practices that had kept Cuban black and mixed populations on the fringes of society. Several Cuban officials and citizens say that, as a result, racism in Cuba is an issue of a distant past.

``We don't have problems with racism, said Pedro Alvarez, chairman and CEO of Alimport, Cuba's importing arm.

But others tell a different story. To them, racism is alive and well in Cuba. They say being black in Cuban society means being singled out for mistreatment because they are perceived to cause many of the country's problems.

''We have practically apartheid in this country sometimes,'' said Rogelio Polanco Fuentes, director of the Communist Party-owned Juventud Rebelde newspaper.

Nevertheless, Cuba has what many consider one of the most integrated societies in the world. Interracial marriages are common and not the contentious issue they often are in the United States. Indeed, mixed couples mingle freely everywhere in Cuba, on the streets, on the beaches and in parks.

Still, many Cuban citizens are reluctant to discuss the matter. And some government officials also don't want to address it, or they become uncomfortable when pressed.

Said Ricardo Alarcón, president of the National Assembly of People's Power, Cuba's parliament: ``Unfortunately, these things [disparities in the treatment of blacks and whites] are very common in Cuba.

It is a situation exacerbated, he said, by the introduction of capitalism into Cuba's socialist society by the country's burgeoning tourism industry.

Polanco Fuentes, Juventud Rebelde's director, said racism is deeply rooted in Cuba's history and will not disappear overnight.

``It is not something you can solve by decree, he said.

While the constitution guarantees Cubans the right to stay in any hotel and be served at any public establishment, several black Cubans said that right exists only on paper. The reality, they say, is that black Cubans won't be served. (Cubans in general say they are barred from places frequented by tourists, regardless of race.)

``As a policy, we blacks never go to hotels, said Juan, a tourism employee who asked that his real name not be used.

Alan said even dollars don't guarantee service.

``[Hotel security doesn't] let you take your break in the hotel, he said. ``If you don't have foreign friends, you can't sit down and be waited on.

The discrimination goes beyond the hotels into the streets, where black Cubans say they are constantly asked to show their national identification cards and are generally harassed hy police.

Cops do stop white Cubans as well, Alan said, but less frequently than they stop black Cubans.

Cuban officials say such racial profiling is not the norm.

``Black people are not being detained on the streets of Havana or any other city just for being black, said Roberto de Armas, of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. ``If there is someone being detained by police, it is for a reason. It's not because of a policy.

Meanwhile, Alan would love to get a job in the tourism industry, but for now is relegated to his low-paying job as an electrical technician. The problem he said, is not his qualifications -- he is university educated -- but his skin color.

``The best jobs are all in tourist areas: hotels, restaurants, anywhere that uses dollar, he said.

``All the good jobs in Cuba go to white people.''

According to Alarcón, the U.S. government's embargo on Cuba has serious implications for socioeconomic equity among races.

``For example, Cuban blacks are not in Miami -- that means that those who send remittances to Cubans are white Cuban Americans.

Remittances are received by 30 percent to 40 percent of whites, compared with 5 percent to 10 percent of blacks, according to an article by Cuban independent journalist Claudia Márquez Linares.

The same article states that, according to Cuba's Center for Anthropology, 80 percent of those in the tourism industry are white and 5 percent are black.

Those statistics are indicative of the racial division that exists, said Omar Lopez Montenegro of the Miami-based Cuban American National Foundation.

He said things were better for Cuban blacks under the leadership of President Fulgencio Batista because they had the opportunity to move up in society.

But according to Cuba historian Christopher Baker, there were places even Batista was not allowed, simply because he was mulatto.

The Havana Yacht Club, for example, turned out the lights when Batista approached -- to let the Cuban president know he was not welcome, Baker said.
However, Lopez said, there is a difference between Batista not being able to enter an exclusive club and Cuban blacks today not being able to go to hotels.

``Even all the people who were white weren't allowed in, he said.

``It has gone from blacks being unable to go to exclusive clubs to not being able to enter any hotel in Cuba. Things are worse.
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PostPosted: Tue 28 Jun 2005 00:04    Post subject: A Little Backgrd on Clubs in Cuba Reply with quote

Institute for Cuban & Cuban-American Studies

 2001 All Rights Reserved, University of Miami

SOCIAL CLUBS (centros). Social clubs were cooperatively organized for mutual aid and social purposes in Cuba throughout the 19th and 20th centuries. The earliest were mainly quintas: associations of persons from provinces and regions of Spain, particularly Galicia, Asturias and Andalucia, formed originally by wealthy Spaniards to help their compatriots when first arriving. Members, who paid regular dues, ranged in numbers from 10,000 and 90,000. The largest clubs also maintained chools, houses for the aged, mausolea, as well as excellent hospitals and clínicas. Most members were chiefly interested in their entitlement to free ealth care and providing this came eventually to be the clubs' chief urpose. Following independence, several purely Cuban social clubs were founded, such as the very exclusive Havana Yacht Club, Miramar Yacht lub and Vedado Tennis Club. After the Revolution of 1959 all these clubs were taken over by government; membership is now determined by ffiliation to particular trade unions or branches of the armed forces.
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PostPosted: Wed 29 Jun 2005 06:22    Post subject: And a Personal Perspective from a Cuban Friend Reply with quote

This is a resposne from a very highly educated Cuban friend - a somewhat older lady - not really old but older than I am.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi ...very busy these days...as I am SERIOUSLY considering transfering/moving to South Florida.

Now..about your question.

The private clubs in Cuba were indeed a part of the times..wrong or wrong :-0)
Many people of European Spanish extractions were also not "invited" to join...because they were not part of the "right" society..business..and yes, even the "right" decendency from certain parts of Spain.

Because of the times, indeed..it cannot be denied..that Cubans of African extraction were not invited to join the membership..BUT...it is most interesting...if a Cuban of African extraction had attained a certain political/economic status..indeed they were "allowed" to be "guests" of the members.

This is what happened with Fulgencio Batista..he was not offered a membership to the most exclusive clubs (about 3 in La Habana)..but he was always welcomed as a guest because of his position...as the President..and a most important man behind the scenes after 1944.
This does not EXCUSE for one moment the selective membership in private clubs..but it ended up being more about political position of some..than even class..class being THE most significant qualifier..as in most part of the Caribbean & the rest of Latin America.

I am from the Oriente..and up to the 1950s..there was this "separate but equal" clubs..yet, it was not written in stone...there was a more liberal exchange between the two than most people would tend to believe. My own family (of European extraction) felt confortable in going back and forth. It is not so easy to explain..it is a society circumstace/uniqueness yet to be fully to be understood.

I am still trying to understand it myself.

What I know is that my family had no problem with having teachers of color teach me & my brothers..they had no problems with the fact that some of our friends were of color..no problem with the fact that one of our pediatric doctors was of color...

It was a most unique complex inter-relationship..

But there was an existing Constitution that protected minorities in the public service arena..even if some parts of society adhered to draconian concepts. There was in the books the LAW that protected the minority...
I grew up with Cubans of every shade..both in my neighborhood..and school.

The segregation de facto occured in the highest echelons of the society..the rest of us..part of the middle class..and lower classes...lived and worked hand in hand with Cubans of every shade..It was the norm to all of us...until we came to this country in the early 1960s & for the first time confronted legalized segregation..it was a shock to someone like my mother..and an epiphany to me..throwing me into the civil rights movement.

One thing is to accept/understand the inherent prejudices of any given people..any people..and another is to confront the systematic descrimination defined/justified/set up by the law of the land.

Sorry..kind of typed fast. Let me know if I failed to answer your original question adequately.
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