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Angelina Jolie sparks Cont. casting as Marianne Pearl
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odocoileus
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2006 04:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not actual sign waving protests. Maybe some expressions of outrage. An angry editorial or two.

Remember, the woman she's playing wasn't a black American. Black Americans won't recognize her as part of the tribe the way they would a multiracial American public figure.

Use a white actress to play Sally Hemmings (entirely appropriate casting, BTW) - then you'd get protests.
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G-Man
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2006 15:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

odocoileus wrote:
Not actual sign waving protests. Maybe some expressions of outrage. An angry editorial or two.


That's what I meant, but who knows what the future holds. If the media make her playing tan face routine an issue some organized group of people may be inspired to whip out the placards as a sign of their outrage.
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gemini072
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2006 15:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

odocoileus wrote:
Not actual sign waving protests. Maybe some expressions of outrage. An angry editorial or two.

Remember, the woman she's playing wasn't a black American. Black Americans won't recognize her as part of the tribe the way they would a multiracial American public figure.

Not particularly true, it depends on the arena of society the person(s) are from. Or what impact she may have...

Use a white actress to play Sally Hemmings (entirely appropriate casting, BTW) - then you'd get protests.


I didn't think Sally looked white... I thought she pretty much looked mulatta
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gemini072
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2006 15:45    Post subject: Marianne Pearl Reply with quote



I think actress Troy Breyer looks just like her.





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sagascend
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2006 15:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who is playing Daniel Pearl? I'd be surprised if the actor was not Jewish.
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fwsweet
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2006 15:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

gemini072 wrote:
I didn't think Sally looked white... I thought she pretty much looked mulatta

No portrait has survived, so nobody knows for sure what she looked like. She had at most 1/4 sub-Saharan ancestry (only her maternal grandmother). This is the same ancestry as Jennifer Beals or Geraldo, so she could well have looked White to USAmerican eyes. On the other hand, her son Jim-Mad was never accepted into White society, apparently due to his appearance. (Of course, as we all know, her other son Eston looked completely White and was accepted as White.) All in all, her appearance is anyone's guess. Personally, although I think Thandie Newton is a great actress, I think that she was miscast (due to her appearance) in "Jefferson in Paris." I would have gone with someone more European-looking (like Heather Locklear or Linda Ronstadt, say).


Last edited by fwsweet on Mon 16 Oct 2006 18:27; edited 1 time in total
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gemini072
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2006 15:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

fwsweet wrote:
gemini072 wrote:
I didn't think Sally looked white... I thought she pretty much looked mulatta

No portrait has survived, so nobody knows for sure what she looked like. She had at most 1/4 sub-Saharan ancestry (only her maternal grandmother). This is the same ancestry as Jennifer Beals or Geraldo, so she could well have looked White to USAmerican eyes. On the other hand, her son Jim-Mad was never accepted into White society, apparently due to his appeaance. (Of course, as we all know, her other son Eston looked completely White and was accepted as White.) All in all, her appearance is anyone's guess. Personally, although I think Thandie Newton is a great actress, I think that she was miscast (due to her appearance) in "Jefferson in Paris." I would have gone with someone more European-looking (like Heather Locklear or Linda Ronstadt, say).


ok, I've so many descriptors of her appearance

I wonder how the castings go for parts like this, do they go for someone they know? There are definately many actors & actresses that could look the part who are mixed race. I didn't think Thandie was that popular yet when Jefferson in Paris was done.
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gemini072
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2006 18:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://backintyme.com/ODR/about1979.html

This is also being discussed here under Popular Culture
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fwsweet
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2006 18:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

gemini072 wrote:
http://backintyme.com/ODR/about1979.html
This is also being discussed here under Popular Culture

That's right. I forgot about that. Should we merge the two threads (putting this more recent one at the end of the other older one)?
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gemini072
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2006 18:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

odocoileus wrote:
Not actual sign waving protests. Maybe some expressions of outrage. An angry editorial or two.

Remember, the woman she's playing wasn't a black American. Black Americans won't recognize her as part of the tribe the way they would a multiracial American public figure.

I must ask, do we know how she identifies? I think we might be taking a leap with that statement if we don't know. Because she isn't biracial

Use a white actress to play Sally Hemmings (entirely appropriate casting, BTW) - then you'd get protests.
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gemini072
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2006 18:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

fwsweet wrote:
gemini072 wrote:
http://backintyme.com/ODR/about1979.html
This is also being discussed here under Popular Culture

That's right. I forgot about that. Should we merge the two threads (putting this more recent one at the end of the other older one)?


I think we should, Just noticed it
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gemini072
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2006 19:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

fwsweet wrote:
gemini072 wrote:
http://backintyme.com/ODR/about1979.html
This is also being discussed here under Popular Culture

That's right. I forgot about that. Should we merge the two threads (putting this more recent one at the end of the other older one)?



I did a botch job on merging Frank, glad I'm not a doctor
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fwsweet
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2006 19:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

gemini072 wrote:
fwsweet wrote:
gemini072 wrote:
http://backintyme.com/ODR/about1979.html
This is also being discussed here under Popular Culture

That's right. I forgot about that. Should we merge the two threads (putting this more recent one at the end of the other older one)?

I did a botch job on merging Frank, glad I'm not a doctor

Don't worry about it. I could not figure out how to do it either. Maybe it cannot be done. At least the two threads (and the isolated post) now appear in under the same forum.
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G-Man
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PostPosted: Tue 17 Oct 2006 13:20    Post subject: Re: Marianne Pearl Reply with quote

gemini072 wrote:





Though she looks alot like Troy Beyer, Thandie Newton would have been an excellent choice instead of Angelina Jolie. Newton is a better actress and her name is more widely known.
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triguy
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PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct 2006 04:03    Post subject: Re: Marianne Pearl Reply with quote

G-Man wrote:
gemini072 wrote:





Though she looks alot like Troy Beyer, Thandie Newton would have been an excellent choice instead of Angelina Jolie. Newton is a better actress and her name is more widely known.


There are very few decent parts for actresses of color. Whether the actress is mulatta, Chinese, Mestiza, Native American, African, Latina or African-American, getting a role in a serious movie can open tremendous doors.
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gemini072
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PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct 2006 12:54    Post subject: Re: Marianne Pearl Reply with quote

triguy wrote:
G-Man wrote:
gemini072 wrote:





Though she looks alot like Troy Beyer, Thandie Newton would have been an excellent choice instead of Angelina Jolie. Newton is a better actress and her name is more widely known.


There are very few decent parts for actresses of color. Whether the actress is mulatta, Chinese, Mestiza, Native American, African, Latina or African-American, getting a role in a serious movie can open tremendous doors.


I agree, I always believe that someone of same/similar ethnic background will/can bring so much more to the part visually as well as personally
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sagascend
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PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct 2006 13:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to agree that some sort of cultural authenticity improves the performance. For example, I don't think The Sopranos would be the same if there had not been a conscious effort to cast Italian American and Italian actors in those roles. After that, "natural" visual authenticity is important. The reason why the casting choice doesn't sit well with many of us is because there are plenty of fine actresses who would not have to alter themselves much or at all to look like Marianne Pearl. But I guess being involved with the production company's owner was the most important factor in casting (just ask Jennifer Anniston).

But it's trickier when it comes to other elements of making a good film or tv show, like directing, writing, casting, producing. Steven Spielberg was massacred by the mainstream Black media when he directed The Color Purple. Arguably one of the best movies ever made, one of many criticisms was that a Black director was not chosen.

Sometimes a passion for telling a story and a deep respect of the culture by an cultural outsider doesn't lessen the authenticity. Is there anything more English than Ang Lee's Remains of the Day or Sense and Sensibility? What about Kevin Costner's Dances With Wolves or John Sayles's Lone Star?
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gemini072
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PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct 2006 14:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

sagascend wrote:
I tend to agree that some sort of cultural authenticity improves the performance. For example, I don't think The Sopranos would be the same if there had not been a conscious effort to cast Italian American and Italian actors in those roles.

I agree totally.

After that, "natural" visual authenticity is important. The reason why the casting choice doesn't sit well with many of us is because there are plenty of fine actresses who would not have to alter themselves much or at all to look like Marianne Pearl. But I guess being involved with the production company's owner was the most important factor in casting (just ask Jennifer Anniston).

But it's trickier when it comes to other elements of making a good film or tv show, like directing, writing, casting, producing. Steven Spielberg was massacred by the mainstream Black media when he directed The Color Purple. Arguably one of the best movies ever made, one of many criticisms was that a Black director was not chosen.

But wasn't Alice Walker working close with him on this project. The same with Amistad, Debbie Allen & Steven worked very close on that project.


Sometimes a passion for telling a story and a deep respect of the culture by an cultural outsider doesn't lessen the authenticity. Is there anything more English than Ang Lee's Remains of the Day or Sense and Sensibility? What about Kevin Costner's Dances With Wolves or John Sayles's Lone Star?


I totally agree, it's about respect. It can only be a better film with as
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gemini072
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PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct 2006 14:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

odocoileus wrote:
Not actual sign waving protests. Maybe some expressions of outrage. An angry editorial or two.

Remember, the woman she's playing wasn't a black American. Black Americans won't recognize her as part of the tribe the way they would a multiracial American public figure.

Use a white actress to play Sally Hemmings (entirely appropriate casting, BTW) - then you'd get protests.


So many mixed race women who could play the part who don't get the chance because they may not be famous enough.
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Salsassin
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PostPosted: Wed 25 Oct 2006 19:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

gemini072 wrote:
odocoileus wrote:
Not actual sign waving protests. Maybe some expressions of outrage. An angry editorial or two.

Remember, the woman she's playing wasn't a black American. Black Americans won't recognize her as part of the tribe the way they would a multiracial American public figure.

Use a white actress to play Sally Hemmings (entirely appropriate casting, BTW) - then you'd get protests.


So many mixed race women who could play the part who don't get the chance because they may not be famous enough.


Angelina Jolie is mixed as well.
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