The Study of Racialism Discussion of U.S. Racialism Please read The Rules before posting.    FAQ   Search     Register     Log in  ' Raízes Afro-Brasileiras Goto page 1, 2  Next          The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> Latin America Author Message MisterLawyer Moderator Joined: 02 May 2006 {Posts: 363 } Location: Île-de-France Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 11:47    Post subject: Raízes Afro-Brasileiras Very interesting BBC feature with admixture tests of famous brazilians. http://www.bbc.co.uk/portuguese/noticias/cluster/2007/05/070427_raizesafrobrasileiras.shtml Back to top Salsassin Suspended Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3508 } Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 12:28    Post subject: 71.3% European, 19.5% African and 9.3% Amerindian. 40% European, 39% African, 20% Amerindian 68.2% African, 30.8% European, 1.0% Amerindian. 25.4% Amerindian, 61.4% African, 13.2% European 65% African, 30.1% European e 4.9% Ameríndian 67% European, 32% African 99.3% African 96.7% African, 2.1% European, 1.1% Amerindian 85% African, 12.9%, European e 2% Amerindian Back to top G-Man Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2652 } Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 13:57    Post subject: From musician Seu Jorge: "Miscigenação era barbárie. Não tinha isso de história de amor, era barbárie. Fico feliz em saber que parte da minha galera resistiu e compõe 85% dos meus genes", disse o músico. "Tem que ser negro para saber o que é você entrar em um ônibus, como uma pessoal normal, e ver os passageiros saltando antes do ponto, escondendo relógio, ligando para a viatura. É uma agressão muito forte. É violento", contou. Reading the entry for the actress above, if my understanding of what she said is correct, she has difficulty finding work because she's too white to be black and too black for many acting jobs. In a country where most people allegedly looked mixed to some degree, this means that the majority of actors are expected to look like Europeans, not uncommon in most Latin American countries. Back to top G-Man Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2652 } Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 14:38    Post subject: Related article: BBC delves into Brazilians' roots Back to top Salsassin Suspended Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3508 } Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 14:39    Post subject: G-Man wrote: From musician Seu Jorge: Miscegenation is barbarism. It did not have that history of love, it was barbarism. I am happy to know that part of me resisted and composes 85% of my genes You have to be Black to know to know what it is to enter a bus, like a normal person, and see the passengers jumping before their stop, hiding their watches, calling a cab. It is a strong aggression. Very violent. From actress, Ildi Silva: I knew I had a side from Holland. but its a lot of mixture. My father is Black, with honey colored eyes. My mother is more light complected Ilda says she has had trouble professionally because of the fact she is not considered White or Black. I had problems with that. People never considered me Black. At the same time, I had many jobs that I did not qualify for because I was Black. But I'm fine. She recognizes that less conventional beauty opens doors, but she says that on the other hand she doesn't fit in any character role. Sometimes the character has to be more common. They told me they needed a person that was more normal, more common. According to Ildi, exotic beauty "complicates" the story of the character. Sometimes it is easier to place a more obvious person. Back to top sagascend Moderator Joined: 17 Jun 2006 {Posts: 2112 } Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 15:22    Post subject: I mean I always say that you can't eyeball admixture accurately but these results just bring that point home visually. Back to top Salsassin Suspended Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3508 } Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 15:31    Post subject: sagascend wrote: I mean I always say that you can't eyeball admixture accurately but these results just bring that point home visually. Ya know? Back to top MisterLawyer Moderator Joined: 02 May 2006 {Posts: 363 } Location: Île-de-France Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 15:51    Post subject: They also show the potential for "disconnect" between mitochondrial and y-chromosome DNA and autosomal admixture percentages. Both this guy's mitochondria and Y-chromosome linages are Indigenous (Amerindian). 68.2% African, 30.8% European, 1.0% Amerindian Quote: O teste que rastreou a ancestralidade materna pelo DNA mitocondrial do frade franciscano revelou um conjunto de seqüências genéticas (haplogrupo) que ainda pode ser encontrado nas populações nativas das Américas do Norte, Central e Sul, segundo o relatório. Ao analisar a linhagem paterna de Frei David, por meio do cromossomo Y, a equipe do laboratório Gene identificou o haplogrupo Q3, considerado o "fundador" dos ameríndios nas três Américas e que teve origem na Sibéria, na região das montanhas de Baikal. Back to top Salsassin Suspended Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3508 } Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 17:32    Post subject: MisterLawyer wrote: They also show the potential for "disconnect" between mitochondrial and y-chromosome DNA and autosomal admixture percentages. Both this guy's mitochondria and Y-chromosome linages are Indigenous (Amerindian). 68.2% African, 30.8% European, 1.0% Amerindian Quote: O teste que rastreou a ancestralidade materna pelo DNA mitocondrial do frade franciscano revelou um conjunto de seqüências genéticas (haplogrupo) que ainda pode ser encontrado nas populações nativas das Américas do Norte, Central e Sul, segundo o relatório. Ao analisar a linhagem paterna de Frei David, por meio do cromossomo Y, a equipe do laboratório Gene identificou o haplogrupo Q3, considerado o "fundador" dos ameríndios nas três Américas e que teve origem na Sibéria, na região das montanhas de Baikal. You also get percentages in mtDNA. It just says that he had maternal and paternal Amerindian ancestry. Not that all mtDNA and Y-Chromosome found was Amerindian. Back to top MisterLawyer Moderator Joined: 02 May 2006 {Posts: 363 } Location: Île-de-France Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 17:49    Post subject: Quote: You also get percentages in mtDNA. It just says that he had maternal and paternal Amerindian ancestry. Not that all mtDNA and Y-Chromosome found was Amerindian. When you test 1 individual, you do NOT get percentages in mtDNA or Y-DNA. You get a specific haplotype inherited directly down the maternal or paternal line, respectively. While it is not written in scientific terms, the clear implication of the article is that THIS INDIVIDUAL'S mtDNA and Y chromosome are amerindian, i.e., "O teste que rastreou a ancestralidade materna pelo DNA mitocondrial do frade franciscano revelou um conjunto de seqüências genéticas (haplogrupo) que ainda pode ser encontrado nas populações nativas das Américas do Norte, Central e Sul, segundo o relatório. " Furthermore, the article identifies his Y chromosome haplogoup as Q3, the founding amerindian lineage. This just emphasizes the point that mtDNA and Y-DNA are inherited from 2 of thousands of ancestors and are not very informative with respect to one's admixture percentages. Back to top Salsassin Suspended Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3508 } Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 17:55    Post subject: MisterLawyer wrote: Quote: You also get percentages in mtDNA. It just says that he had maternal and paternal Amerindian ancestry. Not that all mtDNA and Y-Chromosome found was Amerindian. When you test 1 individual, you do NOT get percentages in mtDNA or Y-DNA. You get a specific haplotype inherited directly down the maternal or paternal line, respectively. While it is not written in scientific terms, the clear implication of the article is that THIS INDIVIDUAL'S mtDNA and Y chromosome are amerindian, i.e., "O teste que rastreou a ancestralidade materna pelo DNA mitocondrial do frade franciscano revelou um conjunto de seqüências genéticas (haplogrupo) que ainda pode ser encontrado nas populações nativas das Américas do Norte, Central e Sul, segundo o relatório. " Furthermore, the article identifies his Y chromosome haplogoup as Q3, the founding amerindian lineage. This just emphasizes the point that mtDNA and Y-DNA are inherited from 2 of thousands of ancestors and are not very informative with respect to one's admixture percentages. Oh OK. Fair enough. Back to top Phil345 Wizard Joined: 03 Oct 2005 {Posts: 520 } Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 18:11    Post subject: sagascend wrote: I mean I always say that you can't eyeball admixture accurately but these results just bring that point home visually. I've always wanted to know to what extent admixture correlates with ancestry. Back to top Salsassin Suspended Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3508 } Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 18:18    Post subject: Phil345 wrote: sagascend wrote: I mean I always say that you can't eyeball admixture accurately but these results just bring that point home visually. I've always wanted to know to what extent admixture correlates with ancestry. Ancestry that is in you. Each time a child is born the DNA equivalent of a full person is lost. Half from each parent. Back to top Phil345 Wizard Joined: 03 Oct 2005 {Posts: 520 } Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 23:47    Post subject: Salsassin wrote: Phil345 wrote: sagascend wrote: I mean I always say that you can't eyeball admixture accurately but these results just bring that point home visually. I've always wanted to know to what extent admixture correlates with ancestry. Ancestry that is in you. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that. Quote: Each time a child is born the DNA equivalent of a full person is lost. Half from each parent. This is why I ask how well ancestry corrolates with genetic admixture. Have they done tests comparing admixture results to a persons pedigree, to quanitify its accuracy?? Back to top BillyMadison79 Experienced User Joined: 01 Mar 2007 {Posts: 133 } Posted: Tue 10 Jul 2007 23:52    Post subject: I am surprised this woman identifies herself as being Black when it's almost unheard of in Brazil for somebody of predominantly European descent and minority African descent to identify as Negro/Preto.And it's not just ancestry wise but phenotype wise she also does not fit most Brazilian people's definition of Black or most people in the world's definition for that matter outside of North America ofcourse, but it's reasonable to think that since when the Africans who were shipped to Brazil as slaves certainly did not look anything like her before they mixed with the Portuguese and the Amerindians that for sure, they looked more like Milton Nascimento who is an example of somebody who does not have a New World mixed race phenotype because he looks pure African in phenotype. Back to top Salsassin Suspended Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3508 } Posted: Wed 11 Jul 2007 01:56    Post subject: BillyMadison79 wrote: I am surprised this woman identifies herself as being Black when it's almost unheard of in Brazil for somebody of predominantly European descent and minority African descent to identify as Negro/Preto.And it's not just ancestry wise but phenotype wise she also does not fit most Brazilian people's definition of Black or most people in the world's definition for that matter outside of North America ofcourse, but it's reasonable to think that since when the Africans who were shipped to Brazil as slaves certainly did not look anything like her before they mixed with the Portuguese and the Amerindians that for sure, they looked more like Milton Nascimento who is an example of somebody who does not have a New World mixed race phenotype because he looks pure African in phenotype. Contrary to many "mulatto" popular beliefs, there are Black communities. and those communities do not go by one droppism or hypodescent. Just common heritage and as their fathers were called Negros, so they call themselves that as well. It is false that all light skinned people call themselves pardo or that all dark skinned people call themselves prieto. Back to top BillyMadison79 Experienced User Joined: 01 Mar 2007 {Posts: 133 } Posted: Wed 11 Jul 2007 03:00    Post subject: Not all Salsassin true, but most Brazilians who for example do not look as physically Black as this Haitian women and her child or atleast almost as Black as them, usually tend to not identify themselves as Black. You know how the Dominican Republic's definition of Black = looking like you came straight out of Haiti.In Brazil the definition of Black is very similiar. Back to top Salsassin Suspended Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3508 } Posted: Wed 11 Jul 2007 08:18    Post subject: BillyMadison79 wrote: Not all Salsassin true, but most Brazilians who for example do not look as physically Black as this Haitian women and her child or atleast almost as Black as them, usually tend to not identify themselves as Black. You know how the Dominican Republic's definition of Black = looking like you came straight out of Haiti.In Brazil the definition of Black is very similiar. Not true. Do you have a source for your claim? It depends on the person. Have you ever been to Brazil? In fact there is a battle going on in Brazil between those that and to one drop, or ethnically identify as Black, and those that use other terms. All these people self identify as Black: on another note, other Brazilians that have been tested. 99,2% European, 0,4% indigenous 0,4% African 93% European, 5,5% indigenous 80% European, 15,5% Amerindian e 4,5% African 96,5% European, 2,6% indigenous e 0,9% African Another interesting fact is that 70 percent of Africans in Brazil came from the Angola region 20% from the Mozambique region in East Africa and about 10% from the Nigeria/Ghana region. http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Ciencia/0,,MUL43530-5603,00.html Back to top Salsassin Suspended Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3508 } Posted: Wed 11 Jul 2007 08:26    Post subject: Phil345 wrote: I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that. Your genetics only holds one person's DNA. Bits and pieces oft the DNA combining that has been going on for millenia with your ancestors. Think of it as a DNA lottery. You only get 6 numbers out of the whole bag of balls. Quote: This is why I ask how well ancestry corrolates with genetic admixture. Have they done tests comparing admixture results to a persons pedigree, to quanitify its accuracy?? A person's pedigree is his geneology. Every ancestor that played a role in you coming to existence. A person's admixture is the physical amount of ancestry from different regions in the body. Two different things. Back to top G-Man Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2652 } Posted: Wed 11 Jul 2007 15:30    Post subject: BillyMadison79 wrote: I am surprised this woman identifies herself as being Black when it's almost unheard of in Brazil for somebody of predominantly European descent and minority African descent to identify as Negro/Preto.And it's not just ancestry wise but phenotype wise she also does not fit most Brazilian people's definition of Black Well, she didn't know she was of predominant European ancestry. In any case many people who look like her identify as black and many don't. And to many Brazilians she would not be seen as black; perhaps less than those who don't see actress Camila Pitanga as black. Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> Latin America All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2 Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group