Joined: 24 Sep 2008 {Posts: 102 } Location: Santiago, DR
Posted: Wed 24 Sep 2008 18:27 Post subject: Radical thought - ignore racial classifications
Hey I'm a newbie here but thought I would like to postulate the effectiveness of just altogether ignoring racial classification in one's everyday lives? In other words, give no deference to supposed or real racial social characteristics and classifications and therefore choose friends and mates based on character alone.
Hey, if you think that this is such a radical idea - think again. I am "white" (as they say) person raised in Charleston SC by strict Catholic parents, went to private school and was rasied in a non "racial" aware setting as I believe is possible in the US.
In fact, we had "black" or otherwise different friends including my best friend, a central American Indian. It wasn't until I entered a public high school and then the Army that I first confronted racism but even then as odd as it seems I was the subject of racism by "blacks" who didn't want me as part as their "group". Unbeknownst to them my father and my faith had taught me not to look at them any differently. Furthermore, my first real confrontations with white racism were while I was in the Army and then afterwords while working in Fayetteville NC.
To continue, I eventually ended up marrying a "black" Dominican women and we live in the Dominican Republic with our three "mulato" daughters.
Needless to say, my daughters will be raised the way I was as well.
I'm sure some people will be offended by this lack of deference to my "racial" background (or any for that matter), but all I can say is I don't believe it has done me any harm - on the contrary, it has helped me to realize that the color of ones skin, and even "apparent culture" are really superficial qualities, ie we as a human race are a whole lot more similar that it may seem.
With respect to my daughters "black" heritage, rest be assured it won't be ignored but stressed positively given my belief that God has no racial preferences.
I'm on the fence as to whether to recommend my daughters working in the US or staying here in the DR when they are adults. There are certainly racial "issues" here in the DR, but they don't even compare to the mess there is in the States.
Anyway, this is my first post and I offer this as a message of hope, and I hope I haven't broken any of the rules in posting my opinions.
Welcome, Chip. Various opinions on racial categorization and racial identify are welcome here as long as they are expressed with adherance to our rules. One central tenet that I work hard to enforce in this forum is the respect for self-identity, the right for each one of us to self-identify as we please, and naysayers be damned (or just warned and suspended).
No rules were broken in your post, by the way. If so someone would have quickly let you know.
Posted: Tue 30 Sep 2008 17:58 Post subject: Re: Radical thought - ignore racial classifications
chip wrote:
Hey I'm a newbie here but thought I would like to postulate the effectiveness of just altogether ignoring racial classification in one's everyday lives? In other words, give no deference to supposed or real racial social characteristics and classifications and therefore choose friends and mates based on character alone.
Hey, if you think that this is such a radical idea - think again. I am "white" (as they say) person raised in Charleston SC by strict Catholic parents, went to private school and was rasied in a non "racial" aware setting as I believe is possible in the US.
In fact, we had "black" or otherwise different friends including my best friend, a central American Indian. It wasn't until I entered a public high school and then the Army that I first confronted racism but even then as odd as it seems I was the subject of racism by "blacks" who didn't want me as part as their "group". Unbeknownst to them my father and my faith had taught me not to look at them any differently. Furthermore, my first real confrontations with white racism were while I was in the Army and then afterwords while working in Fayetteville NC.
To continue, I eventually ended up marrying a "black" Dominican women and we live in the Dominican Republic with our three "mulato" daughters.
Needless to say, my daughters will be raised the way I was as well.
I'm sure some people will be offended by this lack of deference to my "racial" background (or any for that matter), but all I can say is I don't believe it has done me any harm - on the contrary, it has helped me to realize that the color of ones skin, and even "apparent culture" are really superficial qualities, ie we as a human race are a whole lot more similar that it may seem.
With respect to my daughters "black" heritage, rest be assured it won't be ignored but stressed positively given my belief that God has no racial preferences.
I'm on the fence as to whether to recommend my daughters working in the US or staying here in the DR when they are adults. There are certainly racial "issues" here in the DR, but they don't even compare to the mess there is in the States.
Anyway, this is my first post and I offer this as a message of hope, and I hope I haven't broken any of the rules in posting my opinions.
Take care
Hi Chip,
You might be interested in these articles by a Dominican-American, William Javier Nelson:
Interesting to read Chip’s first posting, because after reading his recent answer to me on 'Black Presidents,' I thought he sounded like those people in 'Beloved' who came to get Sethè after she cut slavery. He sounds so hateful!
Interesting to read Chip’s first posting, because after reading his recent answer to me on 'Black Presidents,' I thought he sounded like those people in 'Beloved' who came to get Sethè after she cut slavery. He sounds so hateful!
Codfried has now posted more than 100 messages. This means that he is no longer exempt from the last sentence of rule 1.2 ("Your every message should seek either to inform or to become informed."). As explained in the topic 1.2 You should inform or seek to become informed, "Once [members] have posted 100 messages, they will be required to follow the last sentence of rule 1.2 or face suspension."
The quoted message seeks neither to inform (about U.S. racialism) nor to become informed. It merely expresses personal emotion. This is a formal warning. The next message from Codfried that neither seeks to inform nor to become informed will trigger suspension of his posting privileges.
[A subsequent message by Chip suggested changing rules 1.1 and 1.3. It was split off to Proposed changes to rules 1.1 and 1.2 in the "Site Management" forum (the forum set up to discuss proposed rules changes).]
The splitting off of a rules-change suggestion by Chip does not mean that this thread's topic cannot be discussed. Everyone is free to advocate that people resist "racial" classifications, or alternatively to advocate that such classifications be embraced.
I happen to be among those who agree that the entire U.S. obsession with "racial" classification is a social pathology that should be ended.
But one problem I see is that refusal to self-classify is akin to passive civil disobedience. Such refusal may bring bureaucratic power crashing down on your head. You might not be allowed to register in a college. Your child might be kept out of school. You might not be allowed to vote. And, if your refusal is interpreted by a bureaucrat as fraudulently denying your true "race", you might be jailed for criminal fraud. In short, people who decide to engage in passive civil disobedience should do so with their eyes open to the possible consequences.
Posted: Thu 26 Feb 2009 14:21 Post subject: Re: identity
Powell wrote:
If you look white and say you're white, almost no bureaucrat is going to challenge that.
Of course. If you acquiesce, grovel at the feet of the bureaucracy, and obsequiously pick one and only one classification, then U.S. society will accept your surrender.
But what I was explictly talking about was refusing to choose any "race". Do that, and you will not be matriculated into Nova Southeastern University, you will not be allowed to vote in Alachua County Florida, you will not be allowed to put your children in public school in most jurisdictions, and you will not be interviewed for a job by any employer who does not want to be shut down by the feds for violating EEOC regulations.
Please tell me, Frank, how did you find out this information?
By applying to grad school at Nova Southeastern, by helping a friend register to vote in Alachua County, by corresponding with mothers of mixed children, and by owning a business with employees, thus being forced to become familiar with EEOC regulations. May I ask in return, have you never applied for a job in the United States? Did the application form not ask your "race"? (This is federally mandated.) Did you ask what would happen if you refused to choose?
To learn precisely how hysterically Americans treasure their governments' mandate to forcibly compel citizens to confess their (one and only one) "race" (at every government level), just google "Ward Connerly". To my knowledge, Connerly's American Civil Rights Institute is the only political action group in the U.S. trying to stop government from coercing citizens' racial identity.
As a result, he is villified and slandered by liberals as a racist who wants a return to Jim Crow, and he is villified and slandered by conservatives who fear that this will lead to uncontrolled Black "passing." He is probably the only living American who is hated and attacked by Whites, Blacks, Liberals, Conservativres, extremists, and moderates alike. The reason given by the media for this universal hatred is that not forcing people to choose a "race" will end affirmative action.
To fully grasp the depths of America's obsession with forcing people to choose one and only one "race," you might want to read Ward Connerly, Creating Equal: My Fight Against Race Preferences (San Francisco: Encounter Books, 2000).
Joined: 02 May 2006 {Posts: 444 } Location: Île-de-France
Posted: Fri 27 Feb 2009 14:09 Post subject:
Quote:
By applying to grad school at Nova Southeastern, by helping a friend register to vote in Alachua County, by corresponding with mothers of mixed children, and by owning a business with employees, thus being forced to become familiar with EEOC regulations. May I ask in return, have you never applied for a job in the United States? Did the application form not ask your "race"? (This is federally mandated.) Did you ask what would happen if you refused to choose?
When my wife initially exchanged her PR drivers license for a WI one, the form had check off boxes for race. She engaged in "civil disobedience" and left that part of the form blank, fully expecting the person at the window to tell her she had to choose one and prepared to give a speech and see where it all ended up. Well, the person at the window said nothing. That was about 12 years ago. First time she has to renew her license, same thing. She leaves boxes blank, nothing is said. Last December, same thing, same result. I don't know if the person behind the counter simply checked a box or if there really is no race listed in the records.
When my wife took our daughter to enroll her in school in WI, she left the race boxes on the form blank. The Principal said nothing at the time, but we found out later that she checked the hispanic box on the form herself. Oh well.
When my wife initially exchanged her PR drivers license for a WI one, the form had check off boxes for race. She engaged in "civil disobedience" and left that part of the form blank, fully expecting the person at the window to tell her she had to choose one and prepared to give a speech and see where it all ended up. Well, the person at the window said nothing. That was about 12 years ago. First time she has to renew her license, same thing. She leaves boxes blank, nothing is said. Last December, same thing, same result. I don't know if the person behind the counter simply checked a box or if there really is no race listed in the records.
When my wife took our daughter to enroll her in school in WI, she left the race boxes on the form blank. The Principal said nothing at the time, but we found out later that she checked the hispanic box on the form herself. Oh well.
I have had similar experiences. The luck of the draw. If you draw an officious bureaucrat (or one in a bad mood that day) they can refuse service. If you draw a kind one (or in a good mood), they will assign you a "race" after you have left the window.
On one occassion, I filled out a form for Mary Lee and me to volunteer to perform our 19th-century songs and stories at Flagler County schools. I left my "race" blank. I requested the principal and assistant principal to please submit the form without filling anything in. They said that the county school board would simply send it back as incomplete, but I persuaded them to go along with me. So they sent it up with no "race" and, much to their surprise, it was accepted. It turns out that when it arrived at the county school board, a clerk there immediately filled it in by assigning me a "race."
They will check the boxes off for you if you do not fill it out, even though the gov't forms say OPTIONAL REPORTING INFORMATION.
Case in point: I recently re-fi'ed my mortgage and left all that 'optional information' stuff blank. Upon review and prior to sending in my signed forms, low and behold, everything was filled out for me. When I questioned this, they just said: Oh, if its blank, we are supposed to fill it out for you because of gov't regulation and we can't not have that part not filled out.
There are two distinct matters, here, related to "ignoring racial classifications." One pertains to the matter of whether or not one can legally pull it off, in relation to the government. The second pertains to the matter of whether or not people can and/or should ignore racial classifications as a matter of self-identity. That there is such a divide between these two discussions seems to me the definition of tyranny.
BTW, if you don't mind my asking...what did they fill out for you in the "race" section?
I hope this isn't too personal. I'm genuinely curious.
Well, I faxed them my driver's license and they put Black. I did check non-Hispanic though..... I would bet most people would look dark from a faxed copy too. Also, I did speak with the guy on the phone, so there is that (I'm Southern)..... And my real name is a female name...
I could have had them change it, and the broker was apologetic after I said I left it all blank on purpose. But, whatever!
My broker said the 'gov't' (FHA), perhaps lenders (Bank) would send the application back due to EEOC regultions.
Lastly, I have checked many things in my day anyway - Black, Other, Multi-racial, _______ , bi-racial
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I would bet most people would look dark from a faxed copy too. 
And my real name is a female name...
