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mixedmom Moderator

Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 776 }
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Posted: Tue 28 Aug 2007 19:29 Post subject: |
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| Melani23 wrote: | Speaking as someone who grew up on New Orleans and around Creoles, Blacks, and Whites, I took her implication concerning 'Black girls legs' to mean those that are scarred (by poverty).
My grandparents lived in the projects, and as a child, my siblings and I were often watched by them in the projects. I remember many of these 'Black females legs' looked worse for wear or like 'boys legs' - unshaven, scarred, marked, bruised, etc.
I think she was talking about how they were 'damaged' (via life in poverty) and not shape.....
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Wow, I don't see how the legs of poor white girls would look much different in regards to scarring or bruises.
I have heard it said that "black" women don't shave their legs while white women do. This seemed to be true at the college that I went to. White girls would sometimes comment about the unshaven legs of black girls (ew gross!!!) but I don't believe that this is a universal standard amongst AA women. I once worked with an AA woman who told me that she didn't shave her legs because women in her (black) culture didn't do this. It sounded silly to me because I know AA women who do shave their legs as well as some AA women who don't. It almost seemed to me that more of her reasoning for not shaving her legs was to do the opposite of what is thought of as a "white" thing to do since "white" women are known to shave their legs. White girls/women are also said to wash their hair EVERY SINGLE DAY while black women only do this once or twice a week but this is better explored in a different thread.
I've also heard it said that European women not only don't shave their legs but that they also don't shave their armpits. |
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sagascend Moderator

Joined: 17 Jun 2006 {Posts: 2112 }
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Posted: Wed 29 Aug 2007 13:08 Post subject: |
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| mixedmom wrote: | Thank you for your VERY thought provoking responses Sagascend! I'm thoroughly enjoying the diversity of opinions on this essay.
It is clear that this essay is written from the point of view of a light-skinned woman of New Orleans Creole background. About the "black girl legs" thing, it seems that a lot of groups, both intra-racially and interracially, have peculiar ideas about groups that are different from them as well as having peculiar ideas about their own group. It is wierd when we humans racialize our bodies and hold each other to those unrealistic standards. "Black girl legs" have been described as legs with thin calves on the one end to shapely legs to fat legs! The same has been said about "white girls legs". It is WIERD!!!!! Black and white people will swear that they can discern when a caller on the other end of the telephone line is either a black person speaking or a white person speaking! People are often criticized when they make this observation out loud with rhetorical questions like, "what does a black voice sound like?" or "what is a white voice SUPPOSED to sound like?". What might be interesting is to test this on a show and have someone listen to maybe, 8 different people over the telephone reading a telemarketer's shpeel and then have the person guess the "race" of the speaker and see how many correct guesses most people get. Racializing parts of our bodies (voices, legs, hands, feet, backsides, etc) isn't unique to any particular group but it should be called into question when it happens. I'm not really clear just who in Ms. Heine's girlhood days in New Orleans culture would hold fast to whatever cultural "agreement" that defined what "black girl legs" would look like! Did "blacks" confirm this? Or, was this imposed on "blacks" by Mulatto Creoles and/or the "whites"? Did Ms. Heine make this up all by herself so that NO ONE would have a clue to what she meant except her? In any case, it's doubtful that even most "black" women/girls would have them ("black-girl legs)!
You make a valid point that there aren't any references to a specific pretty black girls with "classical" West African features. (I couldn't find any either). I can see where this can be taken as (passive) disdain towards these features even though nothing disdainful was explicitely stated about West African features in general. |
LOL I hear you on the "racial" voices/traits. It seems like, overall, Americans like to have (or try to impose) racial certainty. We get confused in the process. It may very well be that the timbre of a voice is genetically determined and that a population tends to have genes for a certain timbre. But our racial categories are too unreliable to declare that there is a "black" voice or a "white" voice. I'm sure there are differences in speech (vernacular, pronunciation or intonation) that reflect culture and class. Someone can sound "lower class," "Italian" or like a "New Yorker." Maybe the remnants of our ethnic cultures as Americans show up in our voices, but to distill all that down to sounding "Black" or "White?" Highly suspect to me. Anyway that game show is a good idea. It would help shed light on all of our racial issues. You should pitch it to a network and make some money.  |
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sagascend Moderator

Joined: 17 Jun 2006 {Posts: 2112 }
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Posted: Wed 29 Aug 2007 13:13 Post subject: |
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| mixedmom wrote: | | I've also heard it said that European women not only don't shave their legs but that they also don't shave their armpits. |
This is generally true of the "continental" Europeans but not the Brits. It might be changing though due to American influence.
With Black women not shaving, I think that custom might be regional, like maybe in the deep South and Florida. My mom and aunts don't have to shave because they don't have arm or leg hair but my mom showed me how to shave when I was teenager and started to get "fuzzy." |
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mixedmom Moderator

Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 776 }
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Posted: Wed 29 Aug 2007 14:23 Post subject: |
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| I've heard black women commenting that white women don't wash their hands after leaving the stall in the ladies room. I've heard white women saying that black women don't wash their hands after leaving the stall in the ladies room. I once decided to pay attention to this so I watched for hand washing to see who was and who wasn't washing. I saw that MOST women (all colors) do wash their hands after leaving the stall. There were a few white women who fufilled the stereotype stated by the black women by not washing their hands. There were a few black women who fufilled the stereotype stated by the white women by not washing their hands. Then, there were the occasional data skewers, I called this the "wishy-washy" group who would wash their hands on one visit and not the next. It can be amusing sometimes when people racialize things like this. But I found overall that most women actually do wash their hands. |
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pianoplayer111 Mentor

Joined: 16 May 2007 {Posts: 384 }
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Posted: Wed 29 Aug 2007 17:58 Post subject: |
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LOL, stereotypes can be funny!
I knew a very racist person at university many years ago. She'd grown up in a town with no minorities and her family had brought her up to hate anyone who wasn't "white". She would say that black women stunk, that black men had halitosis, and that blacks rarely took showers...unlike whites, of course.  |
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mixedmom Moderator

Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 776 }
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Posted: Wed 29 Aug 2007 19:58 Post subject: |
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| pianoplayer111 wrote: | LOL, stereotypes can be funny!
I knew a very racist person at university many years ago. She'd grown up in a town with no minorities and her family had brought her up to hate anyone who wasn't "white". She would say that black women stunk, that black men had halitosis, and that blacks rarely took showers...unlike whites, of course.  |
I went to a predominately white college. There was a small black student presence there. I believe that black students made up ~ 10% of the student body. Freshman year, I stayed in a freshman girl's dormitory. I was horrified when I saw that the shower area was a large room with ~ 7 showerheads and NO curtains which meant NO PRIVACY. YIKES!!!! It took some getting use to. Anyway, as the semester went on, I remembered hearing comments from some of the black girls in our dorm saying that the white girls didn't actually wash in the showers. It was said that the white girls would go in and shampoo their hair, shave their legs and then leave without ever having used a washcloth and soap on their bodies. After hearing these comments, I did observe a lot of white girls doing this! It wouldn't be fair or even accurate to say that white girls (implying that ALL of them) did this even though it did seem like it. A lot of times I think that it's good if we all remind ourselves that things are not always what they seem. |
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pianoplayer111 Mentor

Joined: 16 May 2007 {Posts: 384 }
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Posted: Thu 30 Aug 2007 16:37 Post subject: |
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Oh, my!
Pretty much they didn't shower at all, then? I went to an all-girl's Catholic school for one year when I was about 16. I remember the showers there being that way too. Open, with no privacy.
How are the kids, mixedmom?  |
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Melani23 Superuser

Joined: 30 Aug 2005 {Posts: 1082 } Location: USA
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Posted: Thu 30 Aug 2007 19:19 Post subject: |
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Dave Chapelle did a skit, I believe, on how White people do not use wash cloths when bathing/showering.
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mixedmom Moderator

Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 776 }
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Posted: Thu 30 Aug 2007 23:13 Post subject: |
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Bathing is such a personal thing! This the reason why I was so MORTIFIED when I first moved into the freshman dorm and saw that I had to share the shower area with up to 6 other girls! I got over it after a few weeks. Private showers was one of the perks of living in the upperclassman dorms which I got into for my sophmore year.
As for the girls who only shampooed and shaved, yes pianoplayer111, that's all that I saw these girls doing! (eeewww!).
As for white girls in general, it would be wrong to say that "white girls" don't wash because I didn't shower with every white woman on campus! Also, I was primed to really only notice the white girls who were doing this. This is how a lot of stereotyping starts! Yes, there were white girls who really weren't washing BUUUT it was said to me by the black girls in the dorm, "the white girls DON'T WASH!!!!" and without even thinking about it, I saw EXACTLY what I was told to see without much regard for the fact that my sample size was miniscule and I may have been either downplaying or simply NOT noticing the "white" girls who actually were washing.
When I hear "white" people who aren't isolated from "blacks" saying negative things about "blacks" in blanket statements, I often wonder how they seem to have missed the "black" people right under their noses who DON'T fulfill the stereotypes. Are they primed not to notice them? |
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mixedmom Moderator

Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 776 }
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Posted: Thu 30 Aug 2007 23:15 Post subject: |
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| pianoplayer111 wrote: |
How are the kids, mixedmom?  |
They're doing well and quite clean from head to toe, thanks for asking sweetie pie!!!! |
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PassingWoman New User

Joined: 26 May 2008 {Posts: 23 }
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Posted: Tue 17 Jun 2008 04:08 Post subject: |
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Hello Ya'll-
Please understand, my skin is white as snow. (read my name~ PW) Yes, I have often seen white girls NOT wash. I went to summer camp for years and was always shocked and horrified by the fact that people would rub a bar of soap on themselves, and call it "clean." I grew up using a wash cloth and have now switched to a "puff" which does the job very well.
Disgusting, as well, is when women do not wash their hands when walking out of a restroom stall. I have NEVER seen an AA or mixed woman do this, but I've seen plenty of white women do it. |
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pianoplayer111 Mentor

Joined: 16 May 2007 {Posts: 384 }
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Posted: Sun 22 Jun 2008 06:31 Post subject: |
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Your physical description sounds a lot like me, PW!
My fiance is a white American. He is very well-groomed and clean most of the time. He told me once that he has NEVER used a washcloth in his entire life. He showers with a bar of soap only. I've done that before when I had to...I prefer to shower with a "puff". Oh, and I shower in cold water on a daily basis. Brrrr!
Now on a more personal note (I hope I don't offend anyone), we shower together once in a while. I allowed him to, uh, soap me up with only his hands and the bar of soap. I'll do that now and then but I feel cleaner if I've showered with a "puff". |
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