Naomi Campbell Model, her mother is Black (Jamaican), her father is Multiracial, at least partly Chinese.
If you mean somewhere back in her genetic woodpile there may have been one "pure" European ancestor, I'll agree that's quite possible. But I find it extremely unlikely for someone with her appearance to have one white parent if that's what you litteraly meant by your statement. Maybe that's not what you meant at all and you were simply referring to ancestry. If so - given your definition - sure she could be considered mixed-race. So could everyone on this planet. How many people "black", "white", or other can really say with complete certainty they're 100% of what they claim to be/think they are?
I really want to understand this. In Latin America you can be of completely West-African appearance but because of one mixed race parent or Grandparent you can still be considered Mulatta/Mulatto in spite of your appearance? Even if you're not a professional athlete, fashion model, actor, or celebrity? Wow. So it's kind of like the ODR in reverse then. One drop of "non black blood" and you're no longer considered black? If true this is fascinating considering how very different the mindset is in the U.S.
Naomi herself has admited she never knew her biological father. Therefore he may or may not be of mixed race. Some parents tell their children all sorts of things that turn out to be not true...
CAMPBELL: I don't know my real father but I've got two -- I've got three wonderful great men, one I think you know. One is Quincy Jones, who's like an amazing father figure to me.
KING: I passed him on the street yesterday.
CAMPBELL: You did?
KING: He cut me off.
CAMPBELL: And the other is Chris Blackwell and they have both taken the roles as my father and they both take it very seriously.
KING: Your mother never married?
CAMPBELL: I have a father, stepfather but they're divorced.
KING: So you never knew your father?
CAMPBELL: No.
Naomi naturally has brown eyes but often wears green and sometimes blue contacts. She also wears hair weaves/wigs (as do most female celebrities regardless of "race") which Europeanizes her African looks more so.
Still, even dark 50/50 black white biracials are usually distinguishable from the Naomi Campbells and Tyson Beckfords of the world.
Well remember that is comparing 1/2Euro/1/2African with 1/2Asian 1/2African
Your going to get different looks and skin tones.
It also depends on what Euro ethnic group your dealing with, Giancarlo Esposito (1/2Sicilian) is a darker mulatto.
It seems pretty clear to me from reading this thread that the US tendency/preference is to declare dark-skinned people of mixed races "monoracial" because they are dark without considering or knowing what the person's actual ancestry is. I think that is a consequence of our binary color line rather than any authority on how much melanin can be legitimately be present in a mulatto/a. There seems to be a fixation on equating light skin with mulatto-ness, or switching to features to "grade" the ancestry when two mixed race people have some combination of African features (i.e., Lenny Kravitz "looks more Black" than Boris Kudjoe).
In contrast, in Latin America there seems to be a more global discussion about skin color, hair, features and body type when classifying mulattos/as. In terms of trying to identity ancestry without DNA results, at least this approach tries to analyze a person more thoroughly before coming up with the answer!
I think this may also be true in Europe, especially where there are large African populations who have not recently or significantly mixed with Europeans. I lived in Germany for most of my life and I was never taken for African. There would have been no shame in it (indeed I wish someone would declare something purely African in my hodgepodge of features), it just doesn't happen.
Alec Wek is certainly exotic-looking with her own appeal (personally I don't like the cherub-like Sudanese face but I do think she is attractive as a model), but her features are nothing like Naomi Campbell's or Tyson Beckford. Naomi and Tyson are also of Chinese descent, btw, which is also evident.
There is great diversity in sub-Saharan Africa, and we should not "claim" darkskinned beauties have to be mixed in order to explain why they are so, as Iman so correctly stated. But we shouldn't claim that they cannot be as mixed or aren't mixed at all because they don't look like Jennifer Beals.
We are seeing with our cultural eyes. We cannot ascertain ancestry 100% by eyeballing it.[/b]
It seems pretty clear to me from reading this thread that the US tendency/preference is to declare dark-skinned people of mixed races "monoracial" because they are dark without considering or knowing what the person's actual ancestry is.
I agree totally, Many people who are part Asian or part Native American tend to be darker in coloring. My granddad(fathers side) is 1/2 Native American and he is very dark. He was married 3 or 4 times and he married women who are more on the reddish brown side. But all of his children, some lighter some darker have very distinct mixed features. Many have very wavy hair to more puffy curly hair, non have what we call -Negroid features, they have features associated with native americans high cheekbones, very small lips, long thin curved noses and they Asiatic eyes. And something we were picking on them about, They have flat behinds.
There are many biracial(black/euro) people who look more or less not having that stereotypical mulatto look. Lise Funderburgs book:Black White Other featured a biracial girl who talked alot about that. She didn't looked biracial and she had a different experience...
I think that is a consequence of our binary color line rather than any authority on how much melanin can be legitimately be present in a mulatto/a. There seems to be a fixation on equating light skin with mulatto-ness, or switching to features to "grade" the ancestry when two mixed race people have some combination of African features (i.e., Lenny Kravitz "looks more Black" than Boris Kudjoe).
In contrast, in Latin America there seems to be a more global discussion about skin color, hair, features and body type when classifying mulattos/as. In terms of trying to identity ancestry without DNA results, at least this approach tries to analyze a person more thoroughly before coming up with the answer!
I think this may also be true in Europe, especially where there are large African populations who have not recently or significantly mixed with Europeans. I lived in Germany for most of my life and I was never taken for African. There would have been no shame in it (indeed I wish someone would declare something purely African in my hodgepodge of features), it just doesn't happen.
Alec Wek is certainly exotic-looking with her own appeal (personally I don't like the cherub-like Sudanese face but I do think she is attractive as a model), but her features are nothing like Naomi Campbell's or Tyson Beckford. Naomi and Tyson are also of Chinese descent, btw, which is also evident.
There is great diversity in sub-Saharan Africa, and we should not "claim" darkskinned beauties have to be mixed in order to explain why they are so, as Iman so correctly stated. But we shouldn't claim that they cannot be as mixed or aren't mixed at all because they don't look like Jennifer Beals.
We are seeing with our cultural eyes. We cannot ascertain ancestry 100% by eyeballing it.[/b]
I think this may also be true in Europe, especially where there are large African populations who have not recently or significantly mixed with Europeans. I lived in Germany for most of my life and I was never taken for African. There would have been no shame in it (indeed I wish someone would declare something purely African in my hodgepodge of features), it just doesn't happen.
I really donīt know how most people tende to classify you, recently I read something like that in a Eurasian board.
About a white-chinese young man that was always picked at school for being "Asian" but when he moved to germany a student partner was very surprised when he told him about his chinese heritage, saying that he looked like a dark skin german, and most people in germany couldnīt see the chinese part. Which of course brought him several identity questions back home.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Fri 30 Jun 2006 22:26 Post subject:
interesado wrote:
...
I really donīt know how most people tende to classify you, recently I read something like that in a Eurasian board.
About a white-chinese young man that was always picked at school for being "Asian" but when he moved to germany a student partner was very surprised when he told him about his chinese heritage, saying that he looked like a dark skin german, and most people in germany couldnīt see the chinese part. Which of course brought him several identity questions back home.
Hi,
Curiously enough, many white-chinese people if moved to Mexico will be considered locals.
Posted: Sat 08 Jul 2006 10:07 Post subject: Mixed features and biased perceptions
This is something I have been pondering obsessively in recent weeks. I have found it impossibly difficult to find a stereotypic "mulatto" look, or even a range of typical mulatto looks. Having thought about it for a while, I realize that it cannot be done. The reason is very simple: because Mulattos are of mixed ancestry, we will have twice as much variations in our apperances as any monoancestral group. Thus, whereas Blacks and Whites allready have 10 or so typical appearances each, we may very well have over 20! Such a great number of different looks are just impossible to categorize.
Furthermore, I came to a very distrubing conclusiong today. I realize that if you think about it, most human features are not particularly telling of a person's particular ancestry. Oval Eyes, Straight Hair, Wide Noses, Black skin, Big Lips, all these features are found independently all across the planet, and they dont overlap in such a way that we could accurately guess a persons origin just by looking someone who has them. Sometimes you can do this, but actually, in the case of mixed people, its almost impossible. Now hold up and think about what I said for a moment.
We seem to beleive that we can guess peoples ancestry, but actually, there are many possibe ancestries that wil produce similar or identical phenotypes. For this reason Brazilians are hard to identify if you did not allready know what they looked like. You see, the way we really know what mixed people look like, and is that we know something about their parents. We build template stereotype faces and memorize them, and we compare people we meet to these templates inorder to guestimate their place of origin. When we have trouble guessin it is because either multiple template mixes fit the observed face, or because none of them do, which means we dont have enough templates. We figure everything by using stereotypes, individual features are just not enough information to make accurate judgements. What this means, is that WE DONT REALLY KNOW WHAT PEOPLE LOOK LIKE, AND MIXED PEOPLE DONT ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE PREDICATBLE CROSSES BETWEEN ONLY THEIR PARENT GROUPS.
Thus, I am feeling totally hopeless and about to the point of giving up on having a "mulatto look" as part of my personal criteria for what a true mixed person is. I am moving toward the feeling that looking mixed is more about knowing what a person of such and such ancestry allready looks like, than it is guessing how the parents features will combine. Thus, it means very little to say this is a mulato look, and this is a mestizo look.
Zack
______________________
Mulatto Pride, World Wide
Posted: Sat 08 Jul 2006 11:23 Post subject: Re: Mixed features and biased perceptions
TheMulattoKid wrote:
...all these features are found independently all across the planet, and they dont overlap in such a way that we could accurately guess a persons origin just by looking someone who has them.
Yes. All human traits have localized concentrations, but they all vary continuously across the globe in gradients called "clines." The very fact that no two human traits' concentrations align (the population with the darkest skin is nowhere near the population with the kinkiest hair) is what led physical anthropologists to abandon the whole notion of replicable "races" over half a century ago. Our species is unusual in this regard. There are definite "races" (breeds, varieties, subspecies) of dogs, cats, cows, birds, etc. But in a biological sense there are no human "races"; human traits simply do not vary in clusters.
Last edited by fwsweet on Sat 08 Jul 2006 11:52; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sat 08 Jul 2006 11:37 Post subject: Human traits
Yes Frank. It took you saying this for a while and me doing a lot of thinking on my own to finally accept the conclusion in its interiety. I tried in vain to predict what cross-breeds would look like, and I finally realized that you were right and that it implied that these predictions were not consistent or reliable. Incidentally, last night I say a girl with black skin, long straight-wavy black hair, a thin high nose, black eyes, medium lips, and an angular face. What is she? Hehehee. I couldnt figure it out! Theres too many possibilities!
Zack
___________________
Mulatto Pride, World Wide
Posted: Sat 08 Jul 2006 17:45 Post subject: Re: Mixed features and biased perceptions
TheMulattoKid wrote:
Thus, I am feeling totally hopeless and about to the point of giving up on having a "mulatto look" as part of my personal criteria for what a true mixed person is. I am moving toward the feeling that looking mixed is more about knowing what a person of such and such ancestry allready looks like, than it is guessing how the parents features will combine. Thus, it means very little to say this is a mulato look, and this is a mestizo look.
There are trends, but no absolutes. Don't feel hopeless, just realize you are human. One look can be replicated elsewhere for different circumstances.
Posted: Sat 08 Jul 2006 17:46 Post subject: Re: Human traits
TheMulattoKid wrote:
Yes Frank. It took you saying this for a while and me doing a lot of thinking on my own to finally accept the conclusion in its interiety. I tried in vain to predict what cross-breeds would look like, and I finally realized that you were right and that it implied that these predictions were not consistent or reliable. Incidentally, last night I say a girl with black skin, long straight-wavy black hair, a thin high nose, black eyes, medium lips, and an angular face. What is she? Hehehee. I couldnt figure it out! Theres too many possibilities!
'
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