Posted: Tue 11 Jul 2006 16:03 Post subject: The Dismissed Black Woman
I'm intrigued by this poster's epiphany. We've discussed the topic of black men hating black women before and it seems that there's more discussion being generated about this by black women. I found this on a black messageboard that I lurk on sometimes. Here's the link. I'll post the first message.
Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 10:57 pm:
by Sumjones
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Hello all. Let me start by saying that I have been a reader of these messageboards for a few months (after reading Kola's autobiography - love it!) and I just had to register in order to post this story.
Let me begin by saying that I am a 37 year old black female who has never been married and has no children. I work in corporate America, own my own very beautiful brand new home and I am very attractive. I have spent the last 7 years really honing in on my career but I have also been looking for love as I would like to get married and have children. As a personal choice, I would not have a child out of wedlock. I must admit that as I got more serious about settling down, I only considered black men for marriage. First of all, I actually love being black which is a trait that sadly, I don't think the majority of black people (at least the men) share anymore. Secondly, my thinking being that I have a historical and moral obligation to stand beside the black man. We need to build strong black families and why should I after struggling and fighting white people (at every step) in corporate America for everything that I have, go and hand it back to the white man.
As background, let me also say that my brother who my mother put through undergrad and post-graduate school (no loans on his part) recently married a white woman. He was unable to find a suitable job when coming out of college, while the black women he knew in college were getting their jobs as lawyers, doctors etc. To be honest, he did not really try to find a job post-graduation. He sat around alot. But anyway...during this time he started to talk about dating white, turned Republican, a few months later found a white girl and married her. She is absolutely nothing special. No personality at all, not a professional, not particularly good looking while he is very handsome(and I give her more credit than others in the family on that front). Let's put it this way...if she were black, she would unacceptable to him. This was really disappointing to me because my mother and I (and countless black girlfriends of his) have always tried to build up his black manhood, support his dreams, and help him financially so that he would not "slip through the cracks." He also showed himself to me to be someone who would try to use me and others in my family by stating after meeting a cousin that we hadn't seen in years "Hmm, so how can we use what she does to our advantage!" I was quite upset over his complete change and his decision to marry this girl. Please note, that both our black mother and father, who are divorced, said NOTHING about his decision (a point NOT lost on me).
I hate to admit it but I just don't see him in the same way anymore. I look at pictures of him and it is like we are not related. This is the truth and what I feel in my heart, I know it might not be right but it is the truth. I have also made a decision not to ever help him in the future. If I should die (remaining unmarried), he will inherit nothing - I will leave it to a black charity.
Ok, so here is the start of my story. I was recently speaking on the phone to one of my oldest friends of 20+ years who is of Hispanic decent but looks white (blond hair, blue eyes). She was telling me about her 4th of July and how she went with her neighbor to a Dominican (read black) girl's house for a party. The girl that she went with is a white Jewish girl who she always says craves attention. Initially the Jewish girl did not think that they would have fun because the Dominican girl is now dating a black Jamaican guy and the Jewish girl thought that they would have "thugish" friends at the party. She even suggested that they take seperate cars in case she wanted to leave early. Immediately, my ears tweaked up at this reference to "thugish" friend but I let it go for the moment.
She then recounts for me how they actually ended up having a nice time because the Jewish girl was getting alot of attention from the black guys at the party. Even to the point of sitting on ones lap and flirting with him (hmmm, my intuition is telling me). So then my friend tells me that she has conversations with the Jewish girl before and she has said that she would never have a serious relationship or marry a black man. Ok, so back to the party.
The host, who if you recall is Dominican (although they never cop to being black even if they are black as a night), says to my friend "Oh, I see (Jewish girl) is having a great time. I didn't know that she liked black guys. Since apparantly she does, I have a black male friend that I would like to set her up with. He has his own business and even has a few race cars. He is 39, no kids, never married and he is now looking for a serious relationship. But he DOESN'T DATE BLACK GIRLS."
At this point, the Jewish girl comes over and catches the tail end of the conversation and says "Sure, I'll meet him." The Dominican girl gets the black guy and they are introduced. The black guy gives the Jewish girl his number. Let me also say that this Jewish girl has no education, no desire to do anything with her life other than be married, doesn't cook and doesn't have a pot to pee in or window to throw it out of. The Jewish girl then tells him, "Oh, well thanks, but just to let you know, I am not ready for anything heavy right now so I don't want to give out my number." Of course not, because she knows that she wouldn't marry his black azz and doesn't want him to take this seriously. He then debases himself, why clearly anxious to speak more to the girl and says "Well, ok, but if you ever want to go out just call me."
My friend says she asked the girl why she even took his number and the Jewish girl was like "Oh well, it doesn't matter." By this time, I could feel my head about to pop off. I am normally a fairly calm person but something just happened to me at that moment and it was like I SNAPPED. As I started the first three words of a rant that then lasted about 1/2 hour in which I was quite clear about which noose this sellout could swing from with his balls cut off and placed in his mouth by no other than me. Like I said, I snapped. As I started to actually get the first three words of the rant out, my friend had the F-ing nerve to say, "And I was like, you should have let me take that number for my friend if you weren't interested." As if I would want some low life trash like that who woud debase his own mother, sister, aunts, and historically every black women ancestor with his statement. Well, her comment just served to rachet up my blood pressure and the level of my rant. I honestly don't think that I have ever used so many curse words in one conversation in my life. Well, you get the point. And at one point, my friend said "well why does it matter, he said he DOESN'T DATE BLACK GIRLS, it's just his preference. Besides, I am just recounting the story" And during my rant, she just kept saying, "Well why does it matter, I am just telling you a story." It was like 20 years of conversations and her knowing me all went out the window and she had NO IDEA who I was or what the history of black people in this country has been.
I couldn't even sleep that night. I felt like someone had kicked me and kept kicking me right in my stomach and the ache was just going through me until it hit every nerve ending that I had. On the way to work the next morning, I had to hold back the tears because I just felt like crying but I knew that I couldn't and wouldn't.
And then it hit me...
She wasn't just recounting a story. Which didn't ring true when she kept saying it. She was trying to let me know that "You see, you may have everything in life materially - great paying career, big house, and be pretty - but the "black man" who should be your mate will not even CONSIDER you. Instead, he will debase himself just to with someone who looks white and has NOTHING - like she does."
I knew that when I moved into my house, she was jealous because she would not come to see it for a long time. But I blew this off to be normally jealousy that happens with friends sometimes. I have always helped her when I could, over the last few years because she has had very difficult financial times, And she has done the same for me much earlier in our friendship (and vica versa - that's what friends are for). I consider her one of my best friends but would have to admit that she has not been financially prudent over the last 10 years. She has no savings, no home, her car is constantly getting repoed, bad credit...you know the deal. She is slightly older than me and also unmarried. She has been dating a married man for 2 years now which I tell her is not going to get her the marriage and children that she wants in the end. I don't bring it up much though because she tunes me and her sisters out and at the end of the day, it's her life. But the next morning, thinking with a clearer head, I realized exactly what she was trying to do and could more clearly see her motives.
Anyway, back to this sellout story. As I continued to analyze my previous nights rage over the story, I realized what I looked and felt like as I raged:
A widow just before they close the coffin at a funeral parlor. If you've ever seen this, you will know EXACTLY what I am talking about. It seems like just before the coffin closes the widow and some family members start to LOSE IT. They start screaming and throwing themselves on the coffin etc. Because it's the moment when you realize that this person is REALLY dead, not coming back, it's OVER. Do you ever notice that by the time they bring the coffin to the grave site and lower it in the hollering has stopped and there are just slight wimpers.
Then I realized that I had finally come to terms with the fact that the black men DOES NOT feel the love for the black woman any more. No matter what we do, what we accomplish, how we look, how we stay loyal to them..it's just NOT there. At the very least, they devalue us. At the other side of the spectrum, they actually hate us. I realize that this is a form of self-hate but it is still being inflicted upon us. It pains me to think that for all those years I held out misguided loyalty and love that for a ghost, a historic fairytale. I cannot reclaim time, but I realize that I have to take responsibility for my life and my happiness and let this go. Really let it go. I can't blame anyone, not even the black man because he has been showing me signs for sooooo long now and I have been in utter denial. I also realize that the black Dominican woman and black parents like my mother and father also aid in the overall sellout and dismissal of the black woman. The Dominican woman does not see herself as black and have their own serious issues with self-hate. But my own mother. Too filled with low self-esteem and too concerned about losing the only black man who she has ever felt any unconditional love from, her son, to speak. It's a shame. And it's only getting worse out there. I know there will be wimpering but the hardest part for me, I think, is over.
To make matters worse, not only can I name 10 black women just like me but I see the EXACT same thing happening to black women 10 years younger than me. My cousin's mother tells her to "pray." Which really pisses me off, I feel like as her mother she should arm her with more than prayer but realistic expectations. She may be alone for the rest of her life. That is the reality, to sugar-coat it does her a disservice. Or counter to what she has been taught all her life, she may have to date and consider for marriage men of other races. The thing about that is that you have to stop telling the stories of the white man raping black women for centuries if you expect that to be a viable option. The stories breed resentment and hate.
Perhaps in my "friends" attempt to level a slight or blow, she actually helped me to see the truth and finally begin to come to terms with it. I don't know how I will move ahead but I am just going to take it one day at a time because, truthfully, I've never navigated this desert before and I have no idea what lies ahead.
As for White men raping Black women during slavery.
Black men have been raping and chopping up Black women for Centuries past and STILL DO.
All men have raped Black women--because Black men never protected us.
Not in Africa and not in America.
And when a tribe African men conquers another tribe of African men---the first thing they do is rape the women.
THINK about what you're basing your loyalty on.
NO ONE reveres or cherishes Black women.
NO ONE.
So your loyalty should be to your womb and nothing else.
Kola is certainly making gross generalizations here about black women not being loved, cherished, or revered by anyone which is an outright LIE when you apply this comment to all black women globally. Some and perhaps many (I wouldn't know because I don't associate with people so totally hurt and traumatized) can identify with this statement. But there are also plenty who do not.
And when it comes to loyalty... Any thinking person who loves themself will be loyal to those who love and are loyal to them in return. Ideally your mate. Is it really that difficult a concept?
DAMN Kola is such a downer...
What I WILL agree with her on is the fact that people - especially black women need to stop living in the past and start looking at what's happening in the HERE AND NOW. That's why I make a point of addressing anyone at this group who brings up the topic of rape back in the day during slavery times. They really need to be educated to the fact that black men TOO have been the culprit. Statistically they are (and have been) much more likely to rape black women than white men. Heck, women in general regardless of "race" are more likely to be abused by "their own" rather than someone outside of their group.
For numerous reasons, some people don't want this truth to be told and would rather pretend that only white men can act in these evil ways. This lie indeed holds black American women who by into it back (out of fear) when it comes to exploring their options like every other woman on this planet does.
I thought this was a good post...
Quote:
Yup, and that is why so many attractive, educated sistas are alone. They are waiting for their IBM (ideal Black man), yet they don't know exactly who this is. A mature woman should understand herself, and realize that if her objective is to be married and have children one day, she needs to know the difference between things she must have and things that are nice to have.
For example:
If you need a man who has drive and direction, determine exactly what that means. Does it mean that he has to have an advanced degree? Can a tradesman who contracts out his services have drive and direction?
Do you really need a man who is over 6 feet? Is a man who is 5'8" totally unattractive to you?
When someone shares the same ethnicity as you, what is it exactly that you have in common? Is it the knowledge of the same food and music, or is it something deeper, like shared VALUES? Do you know exactly what values you hold in the highest esteem? I, for example, value family, responsibility and respect. I therefore, would seek someone who holds those values in the same esteem as well, regardless of his ethnicity. He can always learn about the food and music of my heritage later.
Determine what you need from what you would like to have in a mate. Retrace the steps of your past failed relationships. Why didn't they work? The common factor in all of these past relationships is YOU. You have yet to realize what you need. And, until you do, you will either keep going back to the same type of failed relationships, or you will remain alone. It's that simple.
It seems some American black women, judging from some of the members at thumperscorner, are straight up masochist who don't have the backbone to remove themselves from communities/family members who encourage their unhealthy addiction to this mythic idea of "the black man". Really, a good deal of what I've read is SO sick and sad...
People are people. Some good and some bad in ALL "races". If you willingly limit yourself, and are complaing about the slim pickings you have and how horrible and Demonic they are, you are a FOOL not to broaden your horizons. But your attitude has to be right and self-esteem intact in order to attract ANY man regardless of "race". White, Asian, Arabic, Indian, and Hispanic men don't want (and won't accept) a Black woman with issues and emotional baggage. You've got to get your OWN house in order (on your own) before you can even think of attractive a positive, healthy, and loving relationship into your life regardless "race". And people really need to remember that their personal reality is NOT everyones.
As for White men raping Black women during slavery.
Black men have been raping and chopping up Black women for Centuries past and STILL DO.
All men have raped Black women--because Black men never protected us.
Not in Africa and not in America.
And when a tribe African men conquers another tribe of African men---the first thing they do is rape the women.
THINK about what you're basing your loyalty on.
NO ONE reveres or cherishes Black women.
NO ONE.
So your loyalty should be to your womb and nothing else.
Kola is certainly making gross generalizations here about black women not being loved, cherished, or revered by anyone which is an outright LIE when you apply this comment to all black women globally. Some and perhaps many (I wouldn't know because I don't associate with people so totally hurt and traumatized) can identify with this statement. But there are also plenty who do not.
And when it comes to loyalty... Any thinking person who loves themself will be loyal to those who love and are loyal to them in return. Ideally your mate. Is it really that difficult a concept?
DAMN Kola is such a downer...
What I WILL agree with her on is the fact that people - especially black women need to stop living in the past and start looking at what's happening in the HERE AND NOW. That's why I make a point of addressing anyone at this group who brings up the topic of rape back in the day during slavery times. They really need to be educated to the fact that black men TOO have been the culprit. Statistically they are (and have been) more likely to rape black women than white men. But some people don't want this truth to be told and would rather pretend that only white men can act in these evil ways. This lie indeed holds black American women who by into it back (out of fear) when it comes to exploring their options like every other woman on this planet does.
I thought this was a good post...
Quote:
Yup, and that is why so many attractive, educated sistas are alone. They are waiting for their IBM (ideal Black man), yet they don't know exactly who this is. A mature woman should understand herself, and realize that if her objective is to be married and have children one day, she needs to know the difference between things she must have and things that are nice to have.
For example:
If you need a man who has drive and direction, determine exactly what that means. Does it mean that he has to have an advanced degree? Can a tradesman who contracts out his services have drive and direction?
Do you really need a man who is over 6 feet? Is a man who is 5'8" totally unattractive to you?
When someone shares the same ethnicity as you, what is it exactly that you have in common? Is it the knowledge of the same food and music, or is it something deeper, like shared VALUES? Do you know exactly what values you hold in the highest esteem? I, for example, value family, responsibility and respect. I therefore, would seek someone who holds those values in the same esteem as well, regardless of his ethnicity. He can always learn about the food and music of my heritage later.
Determine what you need from what you would like to have in a mate. Retrace the steps of your past failed relationships. Why didn't they work? The common factor in all of these past relationships is YOU. You have yet to realize what you need. And, until you do, you will either keep going back to the same type of failed relationships, or you will remain alone. It's that simple.
It seems some American black women, judging from some of the members at thumperscorner, are straight up masochist who don't have the backbone to remove themselves from communities/family members who encourage their unhealthy addiction to this mythic idea of "the black man". Really, a good deal of what I've read is SO sick and sad...
People are people. Some good and some bad in ALL "races". If you willingly limit yourself, and are complaing about the slim pickings you have and how horrible and Demonic they are, you are a FOOL not to broaden your horizons. But your attitude has to be right and self-esteem intact in order to attract ANY man regardless of "race". White, Asian, Arabic, Indian, and Hispanic men don't want (and won't accept) a Black woman with issues and emotional baggage. You've got to get your OWN house in order (on your own) before you can even think of attractive a positive, healthy, and loving relationship into your life regardless "race". And people really need to remember that their personal reality is NOT everyones.
Amen. I couldn't have said it better. Call me a pie in the sky idealist, crazy, or whatever, but I am SICK and TIRED of living my life as though I have to be inferior, downtrodden, angry and sad because of my rich melanin content and hair texture. It's the biggest lie ever sold and I refuse to give credence to it anymore. It saps my personal power and drains me of my hope and faith. Without hope and faith a person really has nothing to look forward to in life. No wonder so many Black women have issues.
I realized that I don't have to take this CRAP that society is trying to shove down my throat. Instead of pouting about what Wesley Snipes said about Black women I can realize that there are men all around me, of all backgrounds, who would love the opportunity to get to know me if I let them. Every Black man in jail or with a non-Black mate is not "my man" who was taken away. Every person who shares my cultural background is not going to relate to me, nor will I relate to them.
Slavery is OVER - I don't own any Black man or woman and no one owns me! Imagine if Black women like this realized the truth of that statement -that we are enslaved only to our pathologies in the year 2006.
When did this happen to Black women??? And not that other women don't go though similar issues - it seems that the competition for men, getting married and having babies can consume our sense of selves and affect our relationships with one another more than any other thing else can.
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 {Posts: 185 } Location: Southern California
Posted: Tue 11 Jul 2006 17:19 Post subject:
Interesting rant. However it is quite disturbing on many levels that I don't know where to begin.
I can understand where someone wishes to isolate oneself from a family member/friend if they appear to be "moochers" as nobody likes to be taken advantage of. However it appears that the ranter is more upset with her brother's choice of mate than with his supposed character flaws (i.e. "mooching"). Again I could understand if his mate were say, a very dangerous, abusive, or dishonest individual but that is not mentioned in the rant. I can therefore assume that he's being "disowned" simply for marrying someone of the "wrong color". Even though the brother's reasons for marrying white might be offensive..I still conclude that we humans owe absolutely no one or no race/ethnicity anything when it comes to the selection of a spouse, as I find it to be a highly personal decision.
I can therefore assume that he's being "disowned" simply for marrying someone of the "wrong color". Gee lady, not everyone can be a professional who makes a six-figure income and have the looks of Miss Universe. For a brief moment I wondered who was being more superficial.
As far as her other rantings, thats quite some heavy subject matter and she is obviously very frustrated. I'm more disturbed by her "sellout" and "traitor" mentality. I don't think I would even know how to respond to such an individual. I would almost be tempted to tell her to seek professional help. Sure, I've heard of the plight of the black professional female finding a spouse but I really don't know what the solution would even be, as I find marriage to be a very personal decision.
Take my dad for example, he married my mom, one of the reasons being because she isn't black. He made no bones about it either. He doesn't find black women attractive, even mulattos have to lean more towards the white side (Jennifer Beals for example). But he finds women of every other race attractive.
I can understand where these angry black women are coming from. They are successful in life and want to share that success with a black man. Yet, most want to be with women of other races. Ouch! Must burn!
I'm all for interracial relationships(I'm the product of one, and in one), but I guess it is sucky when other races are desireable to black men just because they are'nt black. Not because of personality. Then it sends the message that black women are ugly, undesirable, the worst race to be with, etc. Very hurtful.
These women should flip the script and start dating other races. With only black men in mind their choices are very limited.
What I do not want to see happen is reactionary exogamy...i.e, the Wesley Snipes syndrome. A Black woman who turns angrily away from Black men to date non-Black men is doing no one any favors, least of all the poor man that she ends up with! Imagine the burden of having to be the non-Black saviour - only a very insecure person would regard that favorably. People who choose significant others in reaction to a negative experience are subject to change if they have another negative experience. I have personal experience with this one on both ends. I have dated a White guy who refused to date White women. He was very bitter and it turns out that he was hurt badly by a couple of White girls and racialized it for whatever reason. Needless to say that relationship did not last long and had to end on a good note lest he turn into a Nazi skinhead after being hurt by a Black girl!
I also dated a biracial man (White mother) who made me "the exception" to his rule of never dating darkskinned Black/mixed women. I guess he was surprised that "dark" and "pretty" are often compatible, and though I was happy to have freed his mind I have no tolerance for colorism.
Plus all of this racialist indoctrination can make personal preferences or interpersonal compatibility suspect when they shouldn't be. Some people are genuinely not attracted to people who look like themselves or whatever stereotypical ethnic "look" within their culture, but don't have negative views. Yet these people are also seen as racist/colorist.
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