First describing someone as "regular black" says nothing about her background since that doesn't say anything about that person's true heritage. The average African American has Caucasian and Native American ancestry in addition to African ancestry.
Second, as Cree Summer's biography on Wikipedia states, "her mother is Lili Red Eagle, a member of the Plains Cree First Nation. " Summer's mother is mixed-race: Native American and African at least.
One thing that I did not know is that Rae's Uncle (her mothers brother) is Floyd Sneed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Sneed who is the original drummer for the popular 60's/70's band Three Dog Night.
Simply put, Floyd is the most unique drummer in the world, at least to my knowledge and taste. Playing with him in 3 Dog Night was an adventure that changed my guitar playing forever. Floyd invented what is labeled by drummers as, "ghost beats" today. Still, the way he achieved it is different than any other method being used by today's drummers. I won't even attempt to try and explain it.
I have seen Floyd play the snare drum back beat with the drumstick in his left hand, play the high hat with his right hand stick ... and also the snare, with the other end of the stick in his right hand. A train thang. Schermie used to say, "He's like 10 African natives, rowing down a river in a canoe ... with the sounds of distant tribal rhythms being beat out on tree trunks and skin covered barrels. Each stroke of the oars in sync with each other ... shoving you gently forward in a deep, rowing groove."
First describing someone as "regular black" says nothing about her background since that doesn't say anything about that person's true heritage. The average African American has Caucasian and Native American ancestry in addition to African ancestry.
Second, as Cree Summer's biography on Wikipedia states, "her mother is Lili Red Eagle, a member of the Plains Cree First Nation. " Summer's mother is mixed-race: Native American and African at least.
I guess you cant tell by looking, but I've seen pics of Crees parents before (i cant find any on the web), and her mother was a very black woman, the kind that many ODR forum members would call " true black" (or whatever). I'm not saying she doesnt have multi-racial backround, but I doubt she was half indian....
Alot of people in those indian organizations, are predominantly black or white, with fractions of indian ancestry
I'm not sure a 1/4th black person would look that different from a 1/2 black person automatically. Halle Berry, Beyonce, Cree Summer, Jennifer Beals, Lisa Bonet, and Rae Dawn Chong are all of African and Caucasian (and some are also of Native American and Asian) descent to various degrees but have skin tones that are only slightly darker or lighter. However, all of them bear a closer resemblance to Marian Pearl. Rae Dawn Chong and Cree Summer for instance are a 1/4 black but are brown-skinned with frizzy/curly hair.
In any event, Jolie is just very arrogant. I think her taking this role is a disservice to young girls and young women of color who need to see more positive examples of women of color. (Did I mention I hate BET and MTV sexist, misogynistic videos that dehumanize and objectify women (of all colors)? Ugh, Destiny Child has this horrible video where they are out in the desert describing all the ways they can and will serve their men to please them. How is that positive, feminist message for young girls? I do love Pink's "Stupid Girls." It's a great song. I have the same issues with male rockers and rappers. Busta Rhyme has his horrible song "I Love My B**ch"? How is that not grotesque? What self-respecting woman wants her honey to call that?)
yeh, i think we are grasping at genetic straws by implying that "a half black woman can't portray a 1/4 black woman" as germanchocolate was saying. i mean C'MON! mulattas come in all skin tones. i am very fair, i would put myself in the same category as jennifer beals when it comes to skin tone. she and i have black fathers however we are several shades lighter than folks like cree and rae dawn who are actually 1/4 black. i am also lighter skinned than ms. pearl.
what i am wondering is how is it better for a monoracial white (okay, angelina has a drop of indian blood, just as my own mom has 1/8 seminole but unless you wanna get real nit-picky both women are WHITE) to portray a woman of color rather than another woman of color portraying a woman of color??? just because thandie newton and gloria reuben are half black instead of a quarter black? uh.... how is that better than being ZERO black like angelina?! furthermore germanchocolate must not understand that many cubans are predominately black. they do not all look like desi arnaz and gloria estafan.
Cree and Rae are likely closer to being half black, than just 1/4th.
You can't say that because you want it to be so. My next door neighbor is an African from Zimbawe whose husband is white. They have a son who is blonde, blue-eyed and fair-skinned. Yep, he causes a few double takes.
Everyone has these theories about how because someone looks a certain way they must be this or that. Genes are codes. Think digital and not analog. A while ago there was a posting about a black man who looked "very" black scientist whose DNA test revealed that he was 40% "white."
Just because some looks a certain way doesn't mean that we know what's in their genes.
yeh, i think we are grasping at genetic straws by implying that "a half black woman can't portray a 1/4 black woman" as germanchocolate was saying. i mean C'MON! mulattas come in all skin tones. i am very fair, i would put myself in the same category as jennifer beals when it comes to skin tone. she and i have black fathers however we are several shades lighter than folks like cree and rae dawn who are actually 1/4 black. i am also lighter skinned than ms. pearl.
what i am wondering is how is it better for a monoracial white (okay, angelina has a drop of indian blood, just as my own mom has 1/8 seminole but unless you wanna get real nit-picky both women are WHITE) to portray a woman of color rather than another woman of color portraying a woman of color??? just because thandie newton and gloria reuben are half black instead of a quarter black? uh.... how is that better than being ZERO black like angelina?! furthermore germanchocolate must not understand that many cubans are predominately black. they do not all look like desi arnaz and gloria estafan
I was speaking on terms of them being accurate. I don't believe it matters if Halle Berry is the same color as Pearl, they are different races. Who wants someone who is the complete opposite race to portray them? That was my point. So I definately don't agree with AJ portraying a mixed race woman. However, I do beg to differ about how ppl who are 1/4 black usually look the same as ppl who are 1/2. They would be more "white" looking, whether their skin tone is tan or not.
As for Cubans being Predominately black..I think it's more on the line of some are cuban, some are mixed, and maybe some are black. Just like Puerto Rico.
As for Cubans being Predominately black..I think it's more on the line of some are cuban, some are mixed, and maybe some are black. Just like Puerto Rico.
This statement doesn't make sense to me. Aren't all citizens of the country Cuba Cubans? It's true that non-White (visual, not ancestral) Cubans are in the majority on the island. Many of the Cuban Americans you see in the States are from the White minority elite that fled after Castro, so there are even less.
Sagascend is right. "Cuban" is a nationality, like American. If we are talking race, the majority of Cuban Islanders are of African descent (black or mulatto) with the rest of the population white, Asian, and some Native.
In the U.S., we are still presented with images of Cubans as white, like Andy Garcia instead of black/mulatta like Cristina Milian. It's too confusing for most Americans, I guess? Of course, since white Cubans have been able to assimilate, gain wealth and acquire power, they have been able to shape the view of the Cuban identity. Has anyone noticed that most of the movies about Cuba are told by and about the white Cuban perspective?
I think once Fidel and the old guard die and make their way to their just infernal reward, the white Cuban elite will be in for an awakening when they return to Cuba. I don't see the Islanders wanting to cede control to folks who have been gone for decades if not half a century. Pre-revolutionary Cuba was for more racist than Cuba is today (which is still racist in that Fidel's government is still mainly white).
As for Cubans being Predominately black..I think it's more on the line of some are cuban, some are mixed, and maybe some are black. Just like Puerto Rico.
This statement doesn't make sense to me. Aren't all citizens of the country Cuba Cubans? It's true that non-White (visual, not ancestral) Cubans are in the majority on the island. Many of the Cuban Americans you see in the States are from the White minority elite that fled after Castro, so there are even less.
exactly. that is why so many cuban-americans look like gloria estafan, desi arnaz or andy garcia. those folks are basically white in racial terms. if you google cuba and look into pics of folks from there, or if you've ever been to cuba, you will see the majority of those folks still living there are very brown. some are mulatto but even more are black (or predominately black). i don't think that halle berry is "a different race" than ms. ruby. they are both racially comprised of black and white. they may not be the same ethnicity because of the difference in where their ancestors actually came from-- i am not sure on that ("ethnicity" can be a tricky and confusing thing). but racially they are basically the same. and ms. ruby doesn't look any less mulatto than halle. in fact halle has more of a european facial construct than ms. ruby. just an observation. i don't like dragging out the old paper bag test to see who is lighter, darker, blacker looking, whiter looking, yadda yadda yadda. mulatto people are so varied in appearance as it is that is an effort in futility.
I'm not sure if Ms. Pearl's approval really matters that much in this context since we don't know her motivations:
1) Was she more interested in getting her husbands story out.
2) She's a single mother and needs the cash.
3) Does she harbor some kind of racial/cultural insecurity that devalues her African ancestry.
The reality is that while Cuba doesn't have the same vicious racism that existed in the U.S., African ancestry was not prized. There is that old story about the dictator President Batista not being able to go to Havana's exclusive clubs because he was mulatto back in the 1950s. From what I've also read, Cuba's white elite were also fearful of a black revolution like Haiti experienced and committed some horrible attrocities like the Race War of 1912, which saw the slaughter of 6,000 Afro-Cubans.
Colonialism takes place not only in the soil of a land but also in the hearts and minds of people.
I remember reading a story about a beautiful Cuban woman who had lightskin but wore a fancy headwrap. At some party, one of her female enemies tore off her head covering to reveal very African-looking kinky hair, thus revealing the woman's "shameful" African heritage.
--Does anyone else remember this? I can't remember where I read the supposedly true story.
Since we don't know her motivations, why provide information that supports reason three and not the other two? Futher, if memory serves, she was not raised in Cuba but in France, or Europe at least, so I don't see how "Colonialism" or Cuban colorism may have influenced her decision.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Thu 10 Aug 2006 17:11 Post subject: Cubans
This is ridiculous.
Yes, most Cubans have Black ancestors, but also most Cubans have European ancestors at the same time. And studies have shown an important Indian genetic presency in them as well. Those "descendent" arguments have little relation with actual phenotype of people. It will depend on the proportions of the mixtures rather than if the fellows have or not this or that ancestry.
The term "Most" is very imprecise, indeed. The best way to "exagerate" the numbers of a population is to count the descendents (Eurodescendents, Indodescendents, Afrodescendents, etc) rather than by phenotypes.
Most Argentineans have Amerindian ancestors, indeed, but once in Argentina you'll find they are white people. Most Black Brazilians of Bahia have Native American ancestors, but that show very little in the phenotype of that particular region. Most Southern Brazilians and Uruguayans have Indian ancestry too, but those are regions where you don't find Indian phenotypes.
For the matter of phenotype, most Cubans look white (Southern Europeans) or light mulatto, with small minorities of Nordic, Black, Indian and Chinese looking people. Most of them are mixed people.
Personally, I could care less about the ancestry. If the person somewhat resembles the person, It's all good to me.
I have to agree with Omar on this one. To claim most cubans look Black is foolish. The majority look mixed and of the rest there are more people that identify as White than Black.
Personally, I could care less about the ancestry. If the person somewhat resembles the person, It's all good to me.
I have to agree with Omar on this one. To claim most cubans look Black is foolish. The majority look mixed and of the rest there are more people that identify as White than Black.
okay, i am not sure if you all are talking about me specifically... i was mainly referring to the person who said ms. ruby is probably only 1/4 black because she is half cuban. the point i was trying to make is her cuban parent could be mostly black which would make ms. ruby closer to 50%. i also said that i hate the whole weighing the genetic ounces thing-- a quadroon should never play a mulatto or vice-versa. that's pointless and silly to me.
soledad o'brien is the perfect example of this. she says her mother is black cuban and her dad is irish-american. she has gotten lauded by african american groups, hispanic groups and irish groups. i think she is wonderful and a very beautiful woman to boot.
Personally, I could care less about the ancestry. If the person somewhat resembles the person, It's all good to me.
I have to agree with Omar on this one. To claim most cubans look Black is foolish. The majority look mixed and of the rest there are more people that identify as White than Black.
okay, i am not sure if you all are talking about me specifically... i was mainly referring to the person who said ms. ruby is probably only 1/4 black because she is half cuban.
M-Dawg, on a lighter note... maybe Angelina Jolie's lips are mixed?
Her and her husband Brad are cool with me. I see your point too though. But me personally, for the record, I just want to say I've got no beef with her playing the part. But I understand your concern to M-Dawg.
Personally, I could care less about the ancestry. If the person somewhat resembles the person, It's all good to me.
I have to agree with Omar on this one. To claim most cubans look Black is foolish. The majority look mixed and of the rest there are more people that identify as White than Black.
okay, i am not sure if you all are talking about me specifically... i was mainly referring to the person who said ms. ruby is probably only 1/4 black because she is half cuban.
M-Dawg, on a lighter note... maybe Angelina Jolie's lips are mixed?
Her and her husband Brad are cool with me. I see your point too though. But me personally, for the record, I just want to say I've got no beef with her playing the part. But I understand your concern to M-Dawg.
m-dawg? awwww! you always make me smile, j-licious. you cutie you.
'
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in
you cutie you. 