Joined: 10 Mar 2006 {Posts: 235 } Location: Atlanta
Posted: Thu 25 May 2006 16:02 Post subject:
Phil345 wrote:
G-Man wrote:
Torain's comments, which cannot be compared to Howard Stern's antics
I take it you are not very familiar with howard stern.
.....and I think its interesting how Howard's many over-the-top "antics", racially insencitive/pejorative comments, and vulgar humor, which has has gotten him sued, fired, and blackballed over the years, are never attributed to White Americans, or rock music.
When the subject of controversy is white, people see the logic in criticizing the individual, and lack the bigotry to make monolithic statements about whites and white cultural norms.
It takes a certain degree of internalized prejudice, to read a story about an individual (black, radio host), and immediately jump to a conclusion about an entire ethnic-group/culture such as the following comment:
Fledgist wrote:
Once again, hip-hop culture has demonstrated its complete worthlessness. If this is something in which black Americans take pride, perhaps they need to carry out a serious self-examination. Somehow, I doubt this will happen.
G-man wrote:
Torain's comments [sic] are indicative of the increased coarsening of the music and the sub-culture IMO.
No. Torain was a Radio Host at a Hip-Hop/R&B radio station....and thats as far as the correlation goes. Torain's comments are indicative of Tarain's very innapropriate and insensitive attitude; and thats it.
Hip hop music does not advocate molesting little children, or any of the things he was saying. He had a personal vendetta with someone, and went much too far with his words. Everybody thought he was out of line, and he was immediately fired; nobody thought what he said was "cool".
Yes but....
Hip-hop considers vendettas to be morally acceptable, since 'respect' is central to the culture. Disrespecting someone is both an attempt to establish your power over that person and grounds for a violent response. These are not simply matters of the behaviour of an individual but central parts of a self-destructive culture that is making it harder for black Americans to survive and succeed.
Posted: Mon 31 Jul 2006 05:13 Post subject: Charges to Be Dismissed Against D.J. Who Threatened Child
Quote:
July 28, 2006
Charges to Be Dismissed Against D.J. Who Threatened Child
By ANTHONY RAMIREZ
NY Times
The furor entangled two of the city’s best-known hip-hop radio disc jockeys. On the air, one threatened to sexually abuse his rival’s 4-year-old daughter, and then offered a $500 bounty to any listener who could point him to the child’s school.
The D.J. who made the threat, Troi Torain, 42, known as D.J. Star, was soon arrested and charged with endangering the welfare of a child, a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in prison.
But yesterday, prosecutors in the Manhattan district attorney’s office said the charge against Mr. Torain would be dismissed in six months if he performed three days of community service and complied with an order of protection that bans contact or communication with the child or her parents.
Barbara Thompson, a spokeswoman for the district attorney, said prosecutors took the action “because it spares the 4-year-old victim from any further attention or exposure.”
In a telephone interview yesterday, Mr. Torain welcomed the decision. “This was the biggest story in regards to freedom of speech in quite some time,” he said.
Mr. Torain made the controversial comments in May on WWPR-FM, known as Power 105, and was fired soon after. The station is owned by Clear Channel Communications of San Antonio, which, through a publicist, declined to comment yesterday.
Mr. Torain’s threats came as part of an on-air exchange of insults with his rival, Raashaun Casey, 28, who is known as D.J. Envy and works at radio station WQHT-FM, known as Hot 97. In addition to threatening Mr. Casey’s daughter with sexual abuse and offering $500 for information on where she went to school, Mr. Torain also used racial and sexual epithets to describe the child’s mother, Gia Casey, who is part Asian.
Mr. Casey did not return calls to his office yesterday seeking comment on the dismissal of the charges, and Ms. Casey could not be reached for comment.
Members of Asian-American groups, including John C. Liu, a city councilman of Chinese descent, had demanded that Mr. Torain, who is black, be punished.
Mr. Liu said yesterday that he was disappointed by the district attorney’s decision. The issue, he said, is not whether Mr. Torain “would have actually done anything to harm the child directly, but whether someone listening on the public airwaves would have somehow gotten it into their head that they were going to get a cash reward” for harming a child.
Asked in the telephone interview if he regretted his language or wanted to apologize to the parents, Mr. Torain replied: “I’m done with that line of questioning. You’ve got a decision by a court. What more are you looking for? Case dismissed means not enough evidence to go forward, or however else you want to interpret that.”
Mr. Torain compared himself to Lenny Bruce, the comedian, and others involved in free-speech cases.
“If you’re in the media you’d better know what happened to me,” Mr. Torain said, “or else you’ll just be another sheep sitting around, and all of a sudden one day you’ll be told that you don’t represent the demands of a certain community and then you’re out of a job.”
Mr. Torain said he had no plans to seek his old job at Power 105 but planned to stay in New York. “I most certainly will be back on radio, and television as well,” he said. “I’ve got a great television deal in the works.”
Once again, hip-hop culture has demonstrated its complete worthlessness. If this is something in which black Americans take pride, perhaps they need to carry out a serious self-examination. Somehow, I doubt this will happen.
Please, that was 1 individual. Do you know how many 'radio personalities' do stuff like that? We had a conservative radio host her, call our mayor a monkey & arangutang(spelling probably wrong) and some other racial slurs. The mayor is a mixed man. Radio personalities think they can say whatever they want. I'll say hip hop has done a lot for cross racial connections...that POP ROCK R&B couldn't.
Torain's comments, which cannot be compared to Howard Stern's antics
I take it you are not very familiar with howard stern.
.....and I think its interesting how Howard's many over-the-top "antics", racially insencitive/pejorative comments, and vulgar humor, which has has gotten him sued, fired, and blackballed over the years, are never attributed to White Americans, or rock music. (or Jewish culture)
When the subject of controversy is white, people see the logic in criticizing the individual, and lack the bigotry to make monolithic statements about whites and white cultural norms.
It takes a certain degree of internalized prejudice, to read a story about an individual (black, radio host), and immediately jump to a conclusion about an entire ethnic-group/culture such as the following comment:
Fledgist wrote:
Once again, hip-hop culture has demonstrated its complete worthlessness. If this is something in which black Americans take pride, perhaps they need to carry out a serious self-examination. Somehow, I doubt this will happen.
G-man wrote:
Torain's comments [sic] are indicative of the increased coarsening of the music and the sub-culture IMO.
No. Torain was a Radio Host at a Hip-Hop/R&B radio station....and thats as far as the correlation goes. Torain's comments are indicative of Tarain's very innapropriate and insensitive attitude; and thats it.
Right.
Hip hop music does not advocate molesting little children, or any of the things he was saying. He had a personal vendetta with someone, and went much too far with his words. Everybody thought he was out of line, and he was immediately fired; nobody thought what he said was "cool".
Right again. When Eminem rapped about 'raping his mother'? It wasn't pointed to Hip Hop Culture but directed to the (white)rapper. And then praised for his articulation of what white youth of his background may deal with.
Yes but....
Hip-hop considers vendettas to be morally acceptable, since 'respect' is central to the culture. Disrespecting someone is both an attempt to establish your power over that person and grounds for a violent response.
Do you really think this just happens in hip hop culture? since the 70's people (radio personalities and paparazzi don't do the exact same thing to stir up trouble and get the 'Stars' to come back on each other, fights included.
These are not simply matters of the behaviour of an individual but central parts of a self-destructive culture that is making it harder for black Americans to survive and succeed.
Your equating Black American culture with Hip Hop. 2 different 'cultures' a lot of black america doesn't even listen to it. The greatest consumers of it are white suburban youth. Hip Hop is a subculture that includes a large percentage of Hispanic & Puerto Ricans. Many of the radio/djs, artist etc are Puerto Rican as well.
Joined: 10 Mar 2006 {Posts: 235 } Location: Atlanta
Posted: Tue 08 Aug 2006 16:31 Post subject:
gemini072 wrote:
Fledgist wrote:
Once again, hip-hop culture has demonstrated its complete worthlessness. If this is something in which black Americans take pride, perhaps they need to carry out a serious self-examination. Somehow, I doubt this will happen.
Please, that was 1 individual. Do you know how many 'radio personalities' do stuff like that? We had a conservative radio host her, call our mayor a monkey & arangutang(spelling probably wrong) and some other racial slurs. The mayor is a mixed man. Radio personalities think they can say whatever they want. I'll say hip hop has done a lot for cross racial connections...that POP ROCK R&B couldn't.
Joined: 10 Mar 2006 {Posts: 235 } Location: Atlanta
Posted: Tue 08 Aug 2006 16:35 Post subject:
gemini072 wrote:
Fledgist wrote:
Phil345 wrote:
G-Man wrote:
Torain's comments, which cannot be compared to Howard Stern's antics
I take it you are not very familiar with howard stern.
.....and I think its interesting how Howard's many over-the-top "antics", racially insencitive/pejorative comments, and vulgar humor, which has has gotten him sued, fired, and blackballed over the years, are never attributed to White Americans, or rock music. (or Jewish culture)
When the subject of controversy is white, people see the logic in criticizing the individual, and lack the bigotry to make monolithic statements about whites and white cultural norms.
It takes a certain degree of internalized prejudice, to read a story about an individual (black, radio host), and immediately jump to a conclusion about an entire ethnic-group/culture such as the following comment:
Fledgist wrote:
Once again, hip-hop culture has demonstrated its complete worthlessness. If this is something in which black Americans take pride, perhaps they need to carry out a serious self-examination. Somehow, I doubt this will happen.
G-man wrote:
Torain's comments [sic] are indicative of the increased coarsening of the music and the sub-culture IMO.
No. Torain was a Radio Host at a Hip-Hop/R&B radio station....and thats as far as the correlation goes. Torain's comments are indicative of Tarain's very innapropriate and insensitive attitude; and thats it.
Right.
Hip hop music does not advocate molesting little children, or any of the things he was saying. He had a personal vendetta with someone, and went much too far with his words. Everybody thought he was out of line, and he was immediately fired; nobody thought what he said was "cool".
Right again. When Eminem rapped about 'raping his mother'? It wasn't pointed to Hip Hop Culture but directed to the (white)rapper. And then praised for his articulation of what white youth of his background may deal with.
Yes but....
Hip-hop considers vendettas to be morally acceptable, since 'respect' is central to the culture. Disrespecting someone is both an attempt to establish your power over that person and grounds for a violent response.
Do you really think this just happens in hip hop culture? since the 70's people (radio personalities and paparazzi don't do the exact same thing to stir up trouble and get the 'Stars' to come back on each other, fights included.
These are not simply matters of the behaviour of an individual but central parts of a self-destructive culture that is making it harder for black Americans to survive and succeed.
Your equating Black American culture with Hip Hop. 2 different 'cultures' a lot of black america doesn't even listen to it. The greatest consumers of it are white suburban youth. Hip Hop is a subculture that includes a large percentage of Hispanic & Puerto Ricans. Many of the radio/djs, artist etc are Puerto Rican as well.
With all due respect, I am not. I work in an environment in which I am exposed to a variety of black American cultures (I teach at an HBCU). I find 'hip hop culture' to be particularly self-destructive as it promotes values that do not help young people to achieve their potential. When a young man tells me that 'a black man needs a gun for protection' and that the punishment of having his driving license suspended was worse than prison because 'a black man needs his wheels' I get the impression that something has gone wrong.
Torain's comments, which cannot be compared to Howard Stern's antics
I take it you are not very familiar with howard stern.
.....and I think its interesting how Howard's many over-the-top "antics", racially insencitive/pejorative comments, and vulgar humor, which has has gotten him sued, fired, and blackballed over the years, are never attributed to White Americans, or rock music. (or Jewish culture)
When the subject of controversy is white, people see the logic in criticizing the individual, and lack the bigotry to make monolithic statements about whites and white cultural norms.
It takes a certain degree of internalized prejudice, to read a story about an individual (black, radio host), and immediately jump to a conclusion about an entire ethnic-group/culture such as the following comment:
Fledgist wrote:
Once again, hip-hop culture has demonstrated its complete worthlessness. If this is something in which black Americans take pride, perhaps they need to carry out a serious self-examination. Somehow, I doubt this will happen.
G-man wrote:
Torain's comments [sic] are indicative of the increased coarsening of the music and the sub-culture IMO.
No. Torain was a Radio Host at a Hip-Hop/R&B radio station....and thats as far as the correlation goes. Torain's comments are indicative of Tarain's very innapropriate and insensitive attitude; and thats it.
Right.
Hip hop music does not advocate molesting little children, or any of the things he was saying. He had a personal vendetta with someone, and went much too far with his words. Everybody thought he was out of line, and he was immediately fired; nobody thought what he said was "cool".
Right again. When Eminem rapped about 'raping his mother'? It wasn't pointed to Hip Hop Culture but directed to the (white)rapper. And then praised for his articulation of what white youth of his background may deal with.
Yes but....
Hip-hop considers vendettas to be morally acceptable, since 'respect' is central to the culture. Disrespecting someone is both an attempt to establish your power over that person and grounds for a violent response.
Do you really think this just happens in hip hop culture? since the 70's people (radio personalities and paparazzi don't do the exact same thing to stir up trouble and get the 'Stars' to come back on each other, fights included.
These are not simply matters of the behaviour of an individual but central parts of a self-destructive culture that is making it harder for black Americans to survive and succeed.
Your equating Black American culture with Hip Hop. 2 different 'cultures' a lot of black america doesn't even listen to it. The greatest consumers of it are white suburban youth. Hip Hop is a subculture that includes a large percentage of Hispanic & Puerto Ricans. Many of the radio/djs, artist etc are Puerto Rican as well.
With all due respect, I am not. I work in an environment in which I am exposed to a variety of black American cultures (I teach at an HBCU). I find 'hip hop culture' to be particularly self-destructive as it promotes values that do not help young people to achieve their potential. When a young man tells me that 'a black man needs a gun for protection' and that the punishment of having his driving license suspended was worse than prison because 'a black man needs his wheels' I get the impression that something has gone wrong.
I understand all of that. But I also understand the diversity of Hip Hop culture from it's start.
What you may hear on Popular Radio does not represent Hip Hop Culture.
I'm going to use Rock as an example. There is classic rock, glam rock, alternative rock, metal and a few others. Each one a sub-culture in itself. Classic rock(there are people who continue the style as well) does not have the dark side that certain other rock styles have. I know you have heard over the years of Rock songs being pointed at as the reason, a kid either killed himself, worships Satan, killed someone else, became an arsonist etc etc For me to say that Rock is responsible and their is nothing good in it is biased.
There is a lot going on with Hip Hop culture that is still considered 'underground', most of the artist are really good and they don't get the airplay the type of stuff you may be talking gets. Hip Hop hasn't always had that bad element to it. That only came in when record deal control was lost, and Ganster Rap from California became popular. Hip Hop culture has connections with other styles of music: NuSoul and more classic styles of RnB & Jazz. Digible Planets, the Roots, Common are some of the more visible ones. From these groups there are music connections with Eryka Badu, Jill Scott(she started out singing back up for them). Your not going to her much about female bodies, bling, and violence here.
Also to say there is nothing good about it, turns a blind eye to the fashion that has sprouted from this sub culture (Sean John, Fubu, BabyPhat etc etc)
Another avenue of Hip Hop culture is slam poetry which is spreading. Another more positive expression of hip hop culture.
Joined: 10 Mar 2006 {Posts: 235 } Location: Atlanta
Posted: Wed 09 Aug 2006 14:06 Post subject:
gemini072 wrote:
Fledgist wrote:
gemini072 wrote:
Fledgist wrote:
Phil345 wrote:
G-Man wrote:
Torain's comments, which cannot be compared to Howard Stern's antics
I take it you are not very familiar with howard stern.
.....and I think its interesting how Howard's many over-the-top "antics", racially insencitive/pejorative comments, and vulgar humor, which has has gotten him sued, fired, and blackballed over the years, are never attributed to White Americans, or rock music. (or Jewish culture)
When the subject of controversy is white, people see the logic in criticizing the individual, and lack the bigotry to make monolithic statements about whites and white cultural norms.
It takes a certain degree of internalized prejudice, to read a story about an individual (black, radio host), and immediately jump to a conclusion about an entire ethnic-group/culture such as the following comment:
Fledgist wrote:
Once again, hip-hop culture has demonstrated its complete worthlessness. If this is something in which black Americans take pride, perhaps they need to carry out a serious self-examination. Somehow, I doubt this will happen.
G-man wrote:
Torain's comments [sic] are indicative of the increased coarsening of the music and the sub-culture IMO.
No. Torain was a Radio Host at a Hip-Hop/R&B radio station....and thats as far as the correlation goes. Torain's comments are indicative of Tarain's very innapropriate and insensitive attitude; and thats it.
Right.
Hip hop music does not advocate molesting little children, or any of the things he was saying. He had a personal vendetta with someone, and went much too far with his words. Everybody thought he was out of line, and he was immediately fired; nobody thought what he said was "cool".
Right again. When Eminem rapped about 'raping his mother'? It wasn't pointed to Hip Hop Culture but directed to the (white)rapper. And then praised for his articulation of what white youth of his background may deal with.
Yes but....
Hip-hop considers vendettas to be morally acceptable, since 'respect' is central to the culture. Disrespecting someone is both an attempt to establish your power over that person and grounds for a violent response.
Do you really think this just happens in hip hop culture? since the 70's people (radio personalities and paparazzi don't do the exact same thing to stir up trouble and get the 'Stars' to come back on each other, fights included.
These are not simply matters of the behaviour of an individual but central parts of a self-destructive culture that is making it harder for black Americans to survive and succeed.
Your equating Black American culture with Hip Hop. 2 different 'cultures' a lot of black america doesn't even listen to it. The greatest consumers of it are white suburban youth. Hip Hop is a subculture that includes a large percentage of Hispanic & Puerto Ricans. Many of the radio/djs, artist etc are Puerto Rican as well.
With all due respect, I am not. I work in an environment in which I am exposed to a variety of black American cultures (I teach at an HBCU). I find 'hip hop culture' to be particularly self-destructive as it promotes values that do not help young people to achieve their potential. When a young man tells me that 'a black man needs a gun for protection' and that the punishment of having his driving license suspended was worse than prison because 'a black man needs his wheels' I get the impression that something has gone wrong.
I understand all of that. But I also understand the diversity of Hip Hop culture from it's start.
What you may hear on Popular Radio does not represent Hip Hop Culture.
I'm going to use Rock as an example. There is classic rock, glam rock, alternative rock, metal and a few others. Each one a sub-culture in itself. Classic rock(there are people who continue the style as well) does not have the dark side that certain other rock styles have. I know you have heard over the years of Rock songs being pointed at as the reason, a kid either killed himself, worships Satan, killed someone else, became an arsonist etc etc For me to say that Rock is responsible and their is nothing good in it is biased.
There is a lot going on with Hip Hop culture that is still considered 'underground', most of the artist are really good and they don't get the airplay the type of stuff you may be talking gets. Hip Hop hasn't always had that bad element to it. That only came in when record deal control was lost, and Ganster Rap from California became popular. Hip Hop culture has connections with other styles of music: NuSoul and more classic styles of RnB & Jazz. Digible Planets, the Roots, Common are some of the more visible ones. From these groups there are music connections with Eryka Badu, Jill Scott(she started out singing back up for them). Your not going to her much about female bodies, bling, and violence here.
Also to say there is nothing good about it, turns a blind eye to the fashion that has sprouted from this sub culture (Sean John, Fubu, BabyPhat etc etc)
Another avenue of Hip Hop culture is slam poetry which is spreading. Another more positive expression of hip hop culture.
That may be so, nonetheless what I see does not fill me with hope for black Americans.
Torain's comments, which cannot be compared to Howard Stern's antics
I take it you are not very familiar with howard stern.
.....and I think its interesting how Howard's many over-the-top "antics", racially insencitive/pejorative comments, and vulgar humor, which has has gotten him sued, fired, and blackballed over the years, are never attributed to White Americans, or rock music. (or Jewish culture)
When the subject of controversy is white, people see the logic in criticizing the individual, and lack the bigotry to make monolithic statements about whites and white cultural norms.
It takes a certain degree of internalized prejudice, to read a story about an individual (black, radio host), and immediately jump to a conclusion about an entire ethnic-group/culture such as the following comment:
Fledgist wrote:
Once again, hip-hop culture has demonstrated its complete worthlessness. If this is something in which black Americans take pride, perhaps they need to carry out a serious self-examination. Somehow, I doubt this will happen.
G-man wrote:
Torain's comments [sic] are indicative of the increased coarsening of the music and the sub-culture IMO.
No. Torain was a Radio Host at a Hip-Hop/R&B radio station....and thats as far as the correlation goes. Torain's comments are indicative of Tarain's very innapropriate and insensitive attitude; and thats it.
Right.
Hip hop music does not advocate molesting little children, or any of the things he was saying. He had a personal vendetta with someone, and went much too far with his words. Everybody thought he was out of line, and he was immediately fired; nobody thought what he said was "cool".
Right again. When Eminem rapped about 'raping his mother'? It wasn't pointed to Hip Hop Culture but directed to the (white)rapper. And then praised for his articulation of what white youth of his background may deal with.
Yes but....
Hip-hop considers vendettas to be morally acceptable, since 'respect' is central to the culture. Disrespecting someone is both an attempt to establish your power over that person and grounds for a violent response.
Do you really think this just happens in hip hop culture? since the 70's people (radio personalities and paparazzi don't do the exact same thing to stir up trouble and get the 'Stars' to come back on each other, fights included.
These are not simply matters of the behaviour of an individual but central parts of a self-destructive culture that is making it harder for black Americans to survive and succeed.
Your equating Black American culture with Hip Hop. 2 different 'cultures' a lot of black america doesn't even listen to it. The greatest consumers of it are white suburban youth. Hip Hop is a subculture that includes a large percentage of Hispanic & Puerto Ricans. Many of the radio/djs, artist etc are Puerto Rican as well.
With all due respect, I am not. I work in an environment in which I am exposed to a variety of black American cultures (I teach at an HBCU). I find 'hip hop culture' to be particularly self-destructive as it promotes values that do not help young people to achieve their potential. When a young man tells me that 'a black man needs a gun for protection' and that the punishment of having his driving license suspended was worse than prison because 'a black man needs his wheels' I get the impression that something has gone wrong.
I understand all of that. But I also understand the diversity of Hip Hop culture from it's start.
What you may hear on Popular Radio does not represent Hip Hop Culture.
I'm going to use Rock as an example. There is classic rock, glam rock, alternative rock, metal and a few others. Each one a sub-culture in itself. Classic rock(there are people who continue the style as well) does not have the dark side that certain other rock styles have. I know you have heard over the years of Rock songs being pointed at as the reason, a kid either killed himself, worships Satan, killed someone else, became an arsonist etc etc For me to say that Rock is responsible and their is nothing good in it is biased.
There is a lot going on with Hip Hop culture that is still considered 'underground', most of the artist are really good and they don't get the airplay the type of stuff you may be talking gets. Hip Hop hasn't always had that bad element to it. That only came in when record deal control was lost, and Ganster Rap from California became popular. Hip Hop culture has connections with other styles of music: NuSoul and more classic styles of RnB & Jazz. Digible Planets, the Roots, Common are some of the more visible ones. From these groups there are music connections with Eryka Badu, Jill Scott(she started out singing back up for them). Your not going to her much about female bodies, bling, and violence here.
Also to say there is nothing good about it, turns a blind eye to the fashion that has sprouted from this sub culture (Sean John, Fubu, BabyPhat etc etc)
Another avenue of Hip Hop culture is slam poetry which is spreading. Another more positive expression of hip hop culture.
That may be so, nonetheless what I see does not fill me with hope for black Americans.
You must not have read or taken into account anything that was said.
HIP HOP DOES NOT REPRESENT BLACK AMERICA, which you said your not doing but you just stated the same thing. That what you see in that subculture of rap is what all or most black americans are taking part in. This isn't true. You pigeonholding black americans into a box. What about Puerto Ricans who are just as much involved in Hip Hop culture?? You do know they had a big part in it's creation right?
Jazz is also a musical subculture that is BLACK, and you are ignoring that when coming to your hopeless conclusion of black america...
You say you are an educator or working in academian arena? Then I say the world of education is hopeless if people working in it have a narrow view of life.
You must not have read or taken into account anything that was said.
HIP HOP DOES NOT REPRESENT BLACK AMERICA, which you said your not doing but you just stated the same thing. That what you see in that subculture of rap is what all or most black americans are taking part in. This isn't true. Your pigeonholding black americans into a box. What about Puerto Ricans who are just as much involved in Hip Hop culture?? You do know they had a big part in it's creation right and continuance?
Jazz is also a musical subculture that is BLACK, and you are ignoring that when coming to your hopeless conclusion of black america...
You say you are an educator or working in academian arena? Then I say the world of education is hopeless if people working in it have a narrow view of life.
Exactly! How can a subculture created in the Bronx in the late 1970s by urban Blacks and Puerto Ricans stand in for an ethnic culture created over centuries? It just doesn't make sense and is inaccurate. Now I will give you hip hop's prominence in U.S. popular culture, but what it popular is generational and subject to change. Many older African Americans abhor hip hop music and fashion, much like the parents of kids who listened to rock and roll and R&B hated their music and fashion.
The themes reflected in the very popular "gansta/thugged out" hip hop are American as apple pie. Blantant consumerism, nihilism, disrespect for women, glorification of violence and machoism are rampant in American cultural forms. If these themes did not resonate in the American mainstream then the White kids and young adults who buy these records wouldn't be making these artists into multimillionaires.
It is an insult to Black people to equate their culture with a form of music. Music is only one way in which a culture represents itself, and there are many musical genres in Black culture - all of which are older than hip hop.
Many black (and white) intellectuals, as well as people in Hip Hop consider Hip Hop a culture not just a music, and very much representative of Black America.
Many black (and white) intellectuals, as well as people in Hip Hop consider Hip Hop a culture not just a music, and very much representative of Black America.
Then they are wrong, intellectual though they may be, and building arguments on an absurdity. There is not one "Black America" and hip hop does not represent Black culture any more or less than another form of music created by Black people.
By analogy, would one ever say that Ozzy Osbourne or Green Day represent White America? Country music is very popular but many White people clearly do not listen to it or identify with it. It's just as absurd but people get away with this illogical thinking all of the time.
We are in agreement and your opinions are those that I share and try to spread when I can, but we should be cognizant of the fact that many black people actually feel this way and their feelings are buttresed by many writers, intellectuals, activists, and leaders in the black community.
Having been young once, and having spent some time mentoring mostly young, black males, I can attest to the strong influence this kind of thinking has on many young black folk (and some Hispanics as well).
We are in agreement and your opinions are those that I share and try to spread when I can, but we should be cognizant of the fact that many black people actually feel this way and their feelings are buttresed by many writers, intellectuals, activists, and leaders in the black community.
Having been young once, and having spent some time mentoring mostly young, black males, I can attest to the strong influence this kind of thinking has on many young black folk (and some Hispanics as well).
That's true. I do agree that the influence of hip hop is strong, especially on young people and young Black men (and increasingly young men of all backgrounds, even outside of the U.S.). One definitely should not ignore the impact that the music and culture have had on the entire world in a sense, and some of this impact has been negative.
Rappers spend a lot of time working on their supermacho images, and that has to appeal to young men who are trying to find themselves. Many of these rappers are also young men who needed guidance and positive male role models and received neither.
This is my opinion but it seems to me that Black people promoting this idea either don't really know or want to admit how diverse Black culture has always been, or are feeling protective towards hip hop and trying to legitimize some of its questionable elements.
Many black (and white) intellectuals, as well as people in Hip Hop consider Hip Hop a culture not just a music, and very much representative of Black America.
We've already stated that GMan, it's a (subculture) and just as many white youth/PR's and other take part in it as well. Yes it represents, but only a segmant of Black America. And even then what segmant of hip hop culture are you dealing with. People who follow groups like the Roots tend to be from a different class, even the dress and look is different. Your going to find less bling, more natural hair does, almost with a hippie edge college attending integrated people. The Roots followed the avenue of A Tribe Called Quest
Many black (and white) intellectuals, as well as people in Hip Hop consider Hip Hop a culture not just a music, and very much representative of Black America.
Hip hop is a culture. I was raised-up in that culture.
Hip hop is more than gangsta rap. All though gangsta rap and said similar types of genres have hijacked Hip Hop.
It is an insult to Black people to equate their culture with a form of music. Music is only one way in which a culture represents itself, and there are many musical genres in Black culture - all of which are older than hip hop.
Hip Hop is not just music. It's a cultural phenomina. It has worked to united various races of people in the U.S. outside of legislative action. The "Cross Color" brand of clothing was an example of that. Today Asians, Whites, all are part of Hip Hop. Hip Hop music as many subgenres of music under it, such as "House Music." I no longer keep up with much of those things though. But I will tell you Hip Hop encompasses an over all social thought, be it on politics, family life, child raising, and economics.
It is an insult to Black people to equate their culture with a form of music. Music is only one way in which a culture represents itself, and there are many musical genres in Black culture - all of which are older than hip hop.
Hip Hop is not just music. It's a cultural phenomina. It has worked to united various races of people in the U.S. outside of legislative action. The "Cross Color" brand of clothing was an example of that. Today Asians, Whites, all are part of Hip Hop. Hip Hop music as many subgenres of music under it, such as "House Music." I no longer keep up with much of those things though. But I will tell you Hip Hop encompasses an over all social thought, be it on politics, family life, child raising, and economics.
It certainly can, which is why I referred to it as a sub-culture in my first post. But the hip hop music that is singled out and conflated as Black culture is only one part of hip hop culture in itself. It is also a very young artform and culture with roots in much older musical genres. Therefore the conflation is not only wrong but absurd, which what I have pointed out other posts.
It is an insult to Black people to equate their culture with a form of music. Music is only one way in which a culture represents itself, and there are many musical genres in Black culture - all of which are older than hip hop.
Hip Hop is not just music. It's a cultural phenomina. It has worked to united various races of people in the U.S. outside of legislative action. The "Cross Color" brand of clothing was an example of that. Today Asians, Whites, all are part of Hip Hop. Hip Hop music as many subgenres of music under it, such as "House Music." I no longer keep up with much of those things though. But I will tell you Hip Hop encompasses an over all social thought, be it on politics, family life, child raising, and economics.
It certainly can, which is why I referred to it as a sub-culture in my first post. But the hip hop music that is singled out and conflated as Black culture is only one part of hip hop culture in itself. It is also a very young artform and culture with roots in much older musical genres. Therefore the conflation is not only wrong but absurd, which what I have pointed out other posts.
Isn't it interesting who it is that someone will always point to failings of one person and connect that to the cultural failings of some component of "Black America." This just never seems to stop.
Mel Gibson's recent anti-Semitic remarks were indicative of the evil of what musical subculture? Or is it that Mel is just an ignorant, hateful man who, like Torain, exposed his true colors.
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