Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Thu 05 May 2005 03:27 Post subject: American Indian ancestors of American whites
Hi,
I am a Chilean, or a Latino from austral South America, if you wish.
In my culture we grow up knowing the history of admixture between Europeans and Native Americans, which is not only accepted but celebrated.
Depending on the country, in Hispanic America the admixture of Native American blood can go from a 10% to a 90%, but it is always present in every Hispanic country. Even in Cuba, Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic, where history assumes Natives are extinct, the percentage of Native mtDNA is very high. Showing that they were absorved into the general population.
In countries like Brazil and Canada the intermarriage between Whites and Native Americans was very high, too. The Portuguese pioneers in Brazil marry freely with Native women, and also Canadians speak of the Metis and about the mixing during the fur trade. Both of those countries acknowledge that an important fraction of the genetic heritage of "whites" populations came from Native Americans.
So, every country in the Americas recognize that there was a massive mixture between Natives and Europeans since the beginning of colonization. Every one, except by the United States.
It is true that there was not intermarriage between Natives and European in the Eastern colonies? What happened to the large number of mixed people that existed at the very early times? Was the romantic story of Pocahontas just an extraordinary case, or it was, perhaps, something very common at those times?
In colonial times, Europeans lived very close to Native Americans. They trade fur and food, they visited each other, some were friends, and some whites went to live with them, and were accepted. Natives sometimes where accepted in the towns and assimilated to the general society.
There were wars, afterwards, but does they affected all the Indian population, or just the rebelious one? Where are the details? Were the "civilizated" Natives absorbed into the White population? If they were absorved, they would not be very noticeable today in the regular whites, because of the large waves of migrants that carry tens of millions Europeans to the U.S. up to the middle of the XX century.
I wonder why white Americans always talk about the Cherokee greatmother, and they always look for that imaginary -or real- Indian ancestor.
Is there any study that shows, scientifically, how much Native blood have the regular White American? How much Indian mtDNA and Y chromosomes carry the white population.
Why I am interested in the white population only? Because I know the history of the other peoples, and it seems to me that the Whites are hidding something. It looks like that the Natives that were absorved were, at the same time, forgotten. Perhaps some Whites are ashame of those ancestors. Am I wrong?
Posted: Thu 05 May 2005 03:49 Post subject: White and Indian Mixture
"Pocahontas: The Evolution of An American Narrative" by Robert S. Tilton -- Cambridge University Press.
Tilton explores the role of Pocahontas and the "Indian Princess" legend in creating white elite identity and legitimizing the stealing of Indian lands. The claim of descent from an Indian Princess is very popular among many whites. Tilton argues that is a way of saying that we didn't steal the land but inherited it.
Here's another interesting quote from Tilton:
"...for many base wretches amongst us take up with negro women, by which means the country swarms with mulatto bastards, and these mulattoes, if but three generations removed from the black father or mother, may, by the indulgence of the laws of the country, intermarry with the white people, and actually do every day so marry. Now, if instead of this abominable practice which hath polluted the blood of many amongst us, we had taken Indian wives in the first place, it would have made them some compensation for their lands. ...We should become rightful heirs to their lands and should not have smutted our blood..."
"Mixed-Bloods and Tribal Dissolution: Charles Curtis and the Quest for Indian Identity" by William E. Unrau -- University Press of Kansas.
Unrau relates how mixed blood or "white Indians" were promoted by government as a "civilizing" influence on real or full-blood Indians. Charles Curtis is often listed as an "Indian" (1/8) Vice President of the U.S., but he was fully "white" in every caste or social sense. We should ask what is the difference, if any, between a "mixed blood Indian" and a part-Indian "white?" What is the role of a "mixed" elite (for either Indians or blacks) in reinforcing ideas of white superiority and institutions of white supremacy? Indeed, whenever blacks insist on claiming people who aren't of Negroid phenotype for their "race" aren't they really expressing an inferiority complex and a tacit belief that their genetic stock needs to be improved with the blood of their hatred but adored white "enemy?"
Posted: Thu 05 May 2005 21:05 Post subject: Re: American Indian ancestors of American whites
oevega wrote:
Is there any study that shows, scientifically, how much Native blood have the regular White American? How much Indian mtDNA and Y chromosomes carry the white population.
As Omar points out, his question is about the genetics of the White population, not that of ethnic Indians. Although some studies have looked at this, they are very few compared to the number of studies that examine the DNA admixture of the Black and Indian populations.
Studies are not cheap. Consequently, effort is spent where funding is available. But this just raises the question: Why is there so little funding for studies of the genetic Admixture of U.S. Whites? The lack is frustrating to the historian.
Posted: Fri 06 May 2005 16:14 Post subject: genetic admixture of U.S. Whites
Quote:
Why is there so little funding for studies of the genetic Admixture of U.S. Whites?
Possibilities include:
1) Fear of destroying the assumption that "white" is exclusive and gentically "pure" (which I've heard a few times when arguing with those who endorse hypodescent)
2) The assumption that "white" is by definition "normal" and what is "normal" does not need to be studied.
'
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