The Study of Racialism Discussion of U.S. Racialism Please read The Rules before posting.    FAQ   Search     Register     Log in  ' TAINOS OF PUERTO RICO Goto page Previous  1, 2          The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> Caribbean Basin Author Message MisterLawyer Moderator Joined: 02 May 2006 {Posts: 443 } Location: Île-de-France Posted: Thu 17 Aug 2006 00:36    Post subject: Alot of research into mtDNA haplotypes in Puerto Rico have suggested that the Tainos that were present when Colombus arrived were actually descended from three separate migrations. The first very early from the Yucatan before the land bridge to Cuba was submerged by rising sea levels at the end of the last ice age, a second of unclear origin, and the third from the Amazon basin (this one provided the very uniform haplogroup C samples that suggest a recent migration and sucessful reproduction once present.) Quote: Haplogroups A (52.6%) and C (35.8%) represent 88.4% of the Native American mtDNAs. Seventeen restriction sites that had previously been shown to be variable in Haplogroup C mtDNAs of the New World were tested in 79 Haplogroup C mtDNAs. Only two haplotypes representing 49 and 30 mtDNAs were identified. These differed at two sites, one of which was the site known as the most variable in mtDNA, suggesting that Haplogroup C represents one or two very recent migrations to the island that originated in the deep region of the Amazon Basin. Median network analysis of DNA sequences from regions HV-1 and HV-II of 40 Haplogroup A mtDNAs revealed two haplotype clusters that represent at least two Haplogroup A migrations to Puerto Rico, one much older than the other. The average number of sites differing from any sequence to the root in the older cluster suggests that the first migration occurred shortly before the disappearance of the land bridge that connected Cuba with the Yucatan Peninsula. The People of Puerto Rico: A Bio-Genetic Overview, By H.C. Fleming So, my read is there were people in Puerto Rico long before the Tainos who were assimilated by the Tainos upon their arrival, meaning taino culture, but not all taino genes, came from the Amazon. Back to top fwsweet Administrator Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5381 } Location: Palm Coast, FL Posted: Thu 17 Aug 2006 00:42    Post subject: MisterLawyer wrote: The People of Puerto Rico: A Bio-Genetic Overview, By H.C. Fleming. So, my read is there were people in Puerto Rico long before the Tainos who were assimilated by the Tainos upon their arrival, meaning taino culture, but not all taino genes, came from the Amazon. Very interesting indeed. Was this an article or a book? If an article, do you have a PDF or a link to pubmed? I would like to add it to the articles in our Molecular Anthropology index. I knew that the Arawak language had come from what is today Venezuela, but I did not know that there had been prior migrations. Back to top MisterLawyer Moderator Joined: 02 May 2006 {Posts: 443 } Location: Île-de-France Posted: Thu 17 Aug 2006 01:00    Post subject: here is the link where I read it: http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/LR-34.htm And upon closer inspection, it seems he was quoting from the following article: Contemporary mtDNAs reveal pre-Columbian migrations to Puerto Rico, P.Valencia-Rivera (Dep’t. of Biology, University of Puerto Rico at Mayaguez, San Juan, Puerto Rico), et al. Back to top triguy Superuser Joined: 27 Apr 2005 {Posts: 878 } Posted: Thu 17 Aug 2006 03:01    Post subject: Re: Tainos oevega wrote: Hi, Yes, I see some resemblance. Actually Yonomanis look like these: And they are closely related to "fossil" Tainos. Modern populations do have certain admixture, of course. Now, notice that most "pure" Amerindian people do have the typical Japanese look, like some Yonomanis in the pictures above. Omar How do they look Japanese? They look like Indigenous Americans. Back to top oevega SuperMentor Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile Posted: Thu 17 Aug 2006 03:12    Post subject: Re: Tainos triguy wrote: ... How do they look Japanese? They look like Indigenous Americans. Yes, but Japaneses look like Indigenous Americans if you wish. Not all of Japaneses and not all Indians look alike but some do. That's not something I have made of. Actually, the first time I heared that was on an Interview on TV about a Chilean of Mapuche (Native) ancestry, married with Japanese in Japan, who said people in there believed he was local. The second time it was when a Chinese family doctor, who help the birth of my second kid, confess me he was very happy to know the baby had the "mongolian" spot, because that showed we were relatives. As far as I know I have no oriental ancestry... so I could search on Internet same very amazing examples but I am tired now. I'll do later. Omar Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Thu 17 Aug 2006 14:20    Post subject: You can still see pictures of the mainland Caribs of Venezuela, the Galibi: You still see them there: Also if you go to Guyana, you still see the closest relatives off the islands to the Tainos, the Arawaks: The face of a Cuban Arawak: The face of a Trini Carib: What is interesting to note is that the Colla of the Andes are being studied as possible forefathers to the Tainos. Would need to look up why. Back to top oevega SuperMentor Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile Posted: Thu 17 Aug 2006 20:32    Post subject: Notes Salsassin wrote: ... What is interesting to note is that the Colla of the Andes are being studied as possible forefathers to the Tainos. Would need to look up why. Have you found more data? That's very interesting indeed. Omar Back to top werta New User Joined: 09 Nov 2005 {Posts: 31 } Posted: Mon 28 Aug 2006 08:40    Post subject: This is the photo of my great grandmother.Her father was half Amerindian and half European and her mother was dark skinned I believe she was of African ancestry.I'm not sure,but her family weren't slaves.My great grandmother was light skinned with long straight black hair. This is my grandmother my great grandmother's daughter.She is very light skinned with medium wavy hair.Her father was light skinned with red hair.My grandmother took after her grandfather,I think. Back to top oevega SuperMentor Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile Posted: Wed 30 Aug 2006 14:54    Post subject: Great pictures Hi, Nice pictures and nice family. Regards, Omar Back to top werta New User Joined: 09 Nov 2005 {Posts: 31 } Posted: Fri 01 Sep 2006 11:34    Post subject: Hi Omar, Is there any Amerindian ancestry visible in the photo of my great grandmother and that of my grandmother?Is the African ancestry more visible? Back to top oevega SuperMentor Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile Posted: Fri 01 Sep 2006 15:35    Post subject: werta wrote: Hi Omar, Is there any Amerindian ancestry visible in the photo of my great grandmother and that of my grandmother?Is the African ancestry more visible? Yes Werta. This is my guess, only, but I see in your pictures that the lady below has thin lips and a small narrow nose. the shape of the eyes and relative positions match as well in both ladies. I would say, definitively yes. Best regards, Omar Back to top werta New User Joined: 09 Nov 2005 {Posts: 31 } Posted: Wed 30 Sep 2009 14:13    Post subject: What are these people mixed ? werta wrote: Here are some photos of people from Curacao [I edited this post to make the photos show up. When werta gets a chance, you should open up the post in edit mode to see the correct format. Also, there were a couple of tiny misspellings in the image names, probably because they were typed by hand. It is best to copy and past photo names. -- fwsweet] What are these people mixed with? Or do they look mixed or unmixed? What nationalities they can pass for? Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> Caribbean Basin All times are GMT Goto page Previous  1, 2 Page 2 of 2 Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group