Posted: Thu 19 May 2005 05:15 Post subject: Does this sound like a familiar experience you've had?
Just after high school, a friend (Who happened to also be Mulatto) decided to declare himself monoracially "Black". Futhermore, he decided that he was going to be a militant "Black" and only date people from his "race". Coincidentally, both of us had signed a football scholarship to the same undergraduate school. When he got to school his whole persona changed. He and I played in a band when we were going to high school (Metallica, old stuff not their new sissy stuff....lol, Zeppelin, and intermittent 80's heavy metal) suffice to say, we were both "metal heads". He went from this genre to hardcore rap music. His speech and dialect changed to that of a poor southern person. Lastly, most importantly to this story, he actively pursued what he viewed as "monoracial Black women" e.g. very dark complexioned with bold Afrocentric physical features. A side note, this guy looked very similar to me in phenotype (Except he was very lean, and i'm bulky, a euphamism for chunky.lol) Needless to say, he was blatantly rejected by all of the women, he also pursued some lighter complexioned "black" women, which also rejected him. Their "excuse", they thought he was to "white" for them in phenotype. Anyways, he acquiesced, and decided to go out with a "White" girl. My God, you'd think the world had ended.......All the self-identifyed "Black" women that wouldn't give him the time of day were all of a sudden "outraged" that a "brotha" was "steppin' outside his race........Has this ever happened to anyone?
Posted: Thu 19 May 2005 14:10 Post subject: Re: Does this sound like a familiar experience you've had?
Wortman_J wrote:
Just after high school, a friend (Who happened to also be Mulatto) decided to declare himself monoracially "Black". Futhermore, he decided that he was going to be a militant "Black" and only date people from his "race". Coincidentally, both of us had signed a football scholarship to the same undergraduate school. When he got to school his whole persona changed. He and I played in a band when we were going to high school (Metallica, old stuff not their new sissy stuff....lol, Zeppelin, and intermittent 80's heavy metal) suffice to say, we were both "metal heads". He went from this genre to hardcore rap music. His speech and dialect changed to that of a poor southern person. Lastly, most importantly to this story, he actively pursued what he viewed as "monoracial Black women" e.g. very dark complexioned with bold Afrocentric physical features. A side note, this guy looked very similar to me in phenotype (Except he was very lean, and i'm bulky, a euphamism for chunky.lol) Needless to say, he was blatantly rejected by all of the women, he also pursued some lighter complexioned "black" women, which also rejected him. Their "excuse", they thought he was to "white" for them in phenotype. Anyways, he acquiesced, and decided to go out with a "White" girl. My God, you'd think the world had ended.......All the self-identifyed "Black" women that wouldn't give him the time of day were all of a sudden "outraged" that a "brotha" was "steppin' outside his race........Has this ever happened to anyone?
It seems that the women picked up that he wasn't 'real', I actually knew a monoracial Black dude that went thru something similar. I told him your trying waayyyy to hard. The women he went after could have been totally different than the ones that became 'outraged' (I've seen that before)
But I've also seen women who ignore a (single)guy, then when they see him with a women(possibly dating) they act like they are interested.
I think that could be at the root of it, married guy get more phone number than single guys sometimes...
I wish to GOD a number of black and biracial women at BWWBC could read this.
The topic "which race do you want your children to marry" came up for discussion a while back.
The vast majority of members STRONGLY prefered their biracial sons to marry black women. Some, even went as far to say they would disown their sons if they married white or Asian women. I thought (and still think) this was sick and the height of hypocrisy. Some even strongly prefered their biracial daughters to be with black men over white men. This, I truly could not understand. If I were a white man and my black wife suggested such a thing? We would have to have a SERIOUS talk...
What's wrong with prefering your children to be HAPPY? Isn't that more important than "race"? Shouldn't it be?
Truth of the matter, these women were afraid of having "white" Grandchildren. They didn't want to be the forgotten/denied black Grandmother.
They were SO afraid their blackness would be "washed away" for good.
Which is strange because a good deal of them also believe in the ODR.
Very strange and sad...
Whites really need to weed out blacks with this mindset in the dating stage, before marriage and children. IMO
It's really weird. It's as if biracial people, men & women of their own childs "racial" make-up for Gods sake, did not even enter the equation as possible potential spouses/love interests!
Crazy...
TOO many black and black identified mixed-heritage women think it is their responsibility to be the protectors/progenerators of "the black race" instead of baring children that belong to the HUMAN race.
The whole "strong black woman" bull s--t MYTH that is killing (physicaly and certainly psychologically) black and black identitied mixed women everyday.(Whether they want to admit it or not)
Couple that, with the constant blatent bombardment in the media (white and especially black) of super "negroid" looking black males and "light-skinned black"/mulatto women...
This has ALWAYS disturbed me, because it in essence renders invisible the countless numbers of light skinned-black(and dark)/biracial/creole etc... women who prefer Biracial/White/Creole/Hispanic etc... men.
We DO exist whether "society" recognizes us or not.
But you see, it threatens "Black Supremacy" for black/biracial women to like/prefer biracial/white men to black ones because the "hypothetical children" will be lighter. It threatens "White Supremacy" for black/biracial women to like/prefer white men because the "hypothetical children" will be darker.
America has a very racist black and white mentality. It is very suspicious of and threatend by ambiguity. THIS is why the commercials are the way they are Javier. To keep the status quo. To "keep the peace" between "the races".
I have a beautiful son and will be happy just as long as he chooses a woman who is worthy of him. I could care less about the color of her skin or her "race".
We're starting on number two later this year, and if it's a girl, you better believe we're going to be discussing this brainwashing aspect of the media from the begining. Most of the time, that television is going to be OFF. She won't have this guilt complex about her light-skin, blended/whiter features, and "good" hair.(Assuming this is her phenotype) Out of guilt, many a black/biracial woman has been conditioned to prefer dark-skinned black males over light-skinned black/biracial & white ones.
I don't mean to be prejudicial, because in many cases love truly brings people together. Many cases. But, sometimes there are underlying sub-conscious reasons also.
Most black/black raised biracial American women are simply brainwashed into believing dark/nappy haired/stereotypically "black" looking men should somehow be prefered.
I mention American, because it's been my experience that non American women of color often times DO NOT limit themselves racially when it comes to dating/marriage the way black American women have been CONDITIONED to.
Couple ALL of that, with the fact that at least half of black women grew up in single parent homes without their black fathers.
What a sad condition...
The first and most important male in their life, was not there.
Therefore, I believe some black women are trying to receive the love that they didn't receive from their fathers, through this promotion of and sometimes unhealthy sacrifical "love" of "the brothers".
Despite a very slow start, growing numbers of women of color are doing that inner work necessary to attract positive realtionships with men regardless of color.
Just some thoughts thrown out there...
Felicia
P.S. Joel, tell your friend to date who he wants and IGNORE the haters. He should also give up us this stereotypical "black" act. He needs to just be himself. The RIGHT woman will appreciate him and love him the way he is.
I wish to GOD a number of black and biracial women at BWWBC could read this.
The topic "which race do you want your children to marry" came up for discussion a while back.
The vast majority of members STRONGLY prefered their biracial sons to marry black women. Some, even went as far to say they would disown their sons if they married white or Asian women. I thought (and still think) this was sick and the height of hypocrisy. Some even strongly prefered their biracial daughters to be with black men over white men. This, I truly could not understand. If I were a white man and my black wife suggested such a thing? We would have to have a SERIOUS talk...
What's wrong with prefering your children to be HAPPY? Isn't that more important than "race"? Shouldn't it be?
Truth of the matter, these women were afraid of having "white" Grandchildren. They didn't want to be the forgotten/denied black Grandmother.
They were SO afraid their blackness would be "washed away" for good.
Which is strange because a good deal of them also believe in the ODR.
Very strange and sad...
Whites really need to weed out blacks with this mindset in the dating stage, before marriage and children. IMO
It's really weird. It's as if biracial people, men & women of their own childs "racial" make-up for Gods sake, did not even enter the equation as possible potential spouses/love interests!
Crazy...
TOO many black and black identified mixed-heritage women think it is their responsibility to be the protectors/progenerators of "the black race" instead of baring children that belong to the HUMAN race.
The whole "strong black woman" bull s--t MYTH that is killing (physicaly and certainly psychologically) black and black identitied mixed women everyday.(Whether they want to admit it or not)
Couple that, with the constant blatent bombardment in the media (white and especially black) of super "negroid" looking black males and "light-skinned black"/mulatto women...
This has ALWAYS disturbed me, because it in essence renders invisible the countless numbers of light skinned-black(and dark)/biracial/creole etc... women who prefer Biracial/White/Creole/Hispanic etc... men.
We DO exist whether "society" recognizes us or not.
But you see, it threatens "Black Supremacy" for black/biracial women to like/prefer biracial/white men to black ones because the "hypothetical children" will be lighter. It threatens "White Supremacy" for black/biracial women to like/prefer white men because the "hypothetical children" will be darker.
America has a very racist black and white mentality. It is very suspicious of and threatend by ambiguity. THIS is why the commercials are the way they are Javier. To keep the status quo. To "keep the peace" between "the races".
I have a beautiful son and will be happy just as long as he chooses a woman who is worthy of him. I could care less about the color of her skin or her "race".
We're starting on number two later this year, and if it's a girl, you better believe we're going to be discussing this brainwashing aspect of the media from the begining. Most of the time, that television is going to be OFF. She won't have this guilt complex about her light-skin, blended/whiter features, and "good" hair.(Assuming this is her phenotype) Out of guilt, many a black/biracial woman has been conditioned to prefer dark-skinned black males over light-skinned black/biracial & white ones.
I don't mean to be prejudicial, because in many cases love truly brings people together. Many cases. But, sometimes there are underlying sub-conscious reasons also.
Most black/black raised biracial American women are simply brainwashed into believing dark/nappy haired/stereotypically "black" looking men should somehow be prefered.
I mention American, because it's been my experience that non American women of color often times DO NOT limit themselves racially when it comes to dating/marriage the way black American women have been CONDITIONED to.
Couple ALL of that, with the fact that at least half of black women grew up in single parent homes without their black fathers.
What a sad condition...
The first and most important male in their life, was not there.
Therefore, I believe some black women are trying to receive the love that they didn't receive from their fathers, through this promotion of and sometimes unhealthy sacrifical "love" of "the brothers".
Despite a very slow start, growing numbers of women of color are doing that inner work necessary to attract positive realtionships with men regardless of color.
Just some thoughts thrown out there...
Felicia
P.S. Joel, tell your friend to date who he wants and IGNORE the haters. He should also give up us this stereotypical "black" act. He needs to just be himself. The RIGHT woman will appreciate him and love him the way he is.
Actually the part where you mentioned biracial(mulatto) people dating other biracial(mulatto/mixed ancestry) people, is very significant. Why do people feel they have to jump between Black or White, why not other biracial or mixed ancestry people. Especially if you appreciate your admixture...
Joel, said something to this effect in a different post where he would always try to get to know or date other mixed/biracial women that came in and they would only date white men. Without giving him a chance
Posted: Thu 19 May 2005 15:01 Post subject: White grandchildren?
You do find a great deal of schizophrenic behavior on the part of black-identified folks who marry whites ("pure" or "mixed") or other nonblacks and then go ballistic at the thought of their children or grandchildren identifying as white or otherwise nonblack (considered the equivalent of "denying" them). No other "race" seems to be worried about being "denied." It is the "one drop" myth of "inferior black blood" that creates "denial." Get rid of it and there is no denial. Unfortunately, too many blacks have internalized the ODR and fight to maintain the racist genetic principles that traditionally branded them as less than fully human.
If an intermarried white threw a hissy fit about not having "white" children or grandchildren, the blacks would be the first to say the person should have married another white. If a "black" truly wants "black" kids or grandkids, it is easy to maximize the chances of that. The truth is that they DON'T often want really black kids. They want mulatto or even white kids but feel that they must chain them with a "black" label because the bonds of affection aren't enough to maintain the relationship. This says more about them than the people they are trying to socially imprison.
In this infamous case, Lonnae O'Neal Parker cherishes the physical whiteness of her cousin Kim but wants to put a "black" label on that whiteness.
White Girl? Cousin Kim Is Passing. But Cousin Lonnae Doesn't Want to Let Her Go.
Posted: Thu 19 May 2005 15:16 Post subject: Re: White grandchildren?
Powell wrote:
You do find a great deal of schizophrenic behavior on the part of black-identified folks who marry whites ("pure" or "mixed") or other nonblacks and then go ballistic at the thought of their children or grandchildren identifying as white or otherwise nonblack (considered the equivalent of "denying" them). No other "race" seems to be worried about being "denied." It is the "one drop" myth of "inferior black blood" that creates "denial." Get rid of it and there is no denial. Unfortunately, too many blacks have internalized the ODR and fight to maintain the racist genetic principles that traditionally branded them as less than fully human.
If an intermarried white threw a hissy fit about not having "white" children or grandchildren, the blacks would be the first to say the person should have married another white. If a "black" truly wants "black" kids or grandkids, it is easy to maximize the chances of that. The truth is that they DON'T often want really black kids. They want mulatto or even white kids but feel that they must chain them with a "black" label because the bonds of affection aren't enough to maintain the relationship. This says more about them than the people they are trying to socially imprison.
In this infamous case, Lonnae O'Neal Parker cherishes the physical whiteness of her cousin Kim but wants to put a "black" label on that whiteness.
White Girl? Cousin Kim Is Passing. But Cousin Lonnae Doesn't Want to Let Her Go.
Good points there, I think most of them in interracial relationships want their kids to look 'mixed' like a combo of either parent
The interesting thing about cousin Kim, is that she doesn't look white, I've seen a few pictures of her and I just wouldn't think she was white at all, I easily assume she was mixed. It was sorta funny but in the article Kim talked about the time she went over a friends house for the first time, and found out the father was a grand wizard, and she sucked in her lips and something else to not appear black at all...
"No other "race" seems to be worried about being "denied." It is the "one drop" myth of "inferior black blood" that creates "denial." Get rid of it and there is no denial. Unfortunately, too many blacks have internalized the ODR and fight to maintain the racist genetic principles that traditionally branded them as less than fully human."
"the bonds of affection aren't enough to maintain the relationship. This says more about them than the people they are trying to socially imprison."
DAMN that is deep A.D.! Especially that last part...
See, that's what I was trying to explain to them. Even if their grandchildren look and identify as white, the love can STILL be there. Why shouldn't it be? There doesn't have to be a denial or feeling of being ashamed.
But that's what the propaganda film "Imitiation of Life" does to some people. Whole generations have been poisoned and scared by that film.
Gemini,
I don't know how the mixed/biracial population could be skipped over either. Personally, I think it would be GREAT if my son fell for a mixed heritage "beige" girl. They would have something in common and would sure bring us some beautiful grandchildren... BUT, if she's "white", "black", "asian", etc... I will STILL love my future daughter in-law because she loves my son.
I wouldn't dare mention being pleased if my son brought home a clearly biracial woman at BWWBC however. I'd be eaten alive by some...lol Many blacks are VERY insecure about the notion of "light on light" love. Because of their own insecurity, some feel that "light-skinned black" i.e. biracial/multiracial/creole etc... couples and families (especially attractive ones) are a threat. The truth is, it's often envy & jeolusy that is at the root of the tension.
On a side note, I believe that socieoeconomic status may play a part in the preferences of some biracial women. From personal observation, it seems like the ones raised in white environments lean towards white, biracial, and eurasian men. Some lean towards black men if they have money. The ones raised in inner-cities/ghettos tend to prefer black, sometimes hispanic.
Of course it also may have to do with which part of the country you're in...
Posted: Thu 19 May 2005 17:51 Post subject: Re: Does this sound like a familiar experience you've had?
Wortman_J wrote:
Just after high school, a friend (Who happened to also be Mulatto) decided to declare himself monoracially "Black". Futhermore, he decided that he was going to be a militant "Black" and only date people from his "race". Coincidentally, both of us had signed a football scholarship to the same undergraduate school. When he got to school his whole persona changed. He and I played in a band when we were going to high school (Metallica, old stuff not their new sissy stuff....lol, Zeppelin, and intermittent 80's heavy metal) suffice to say, we were both "metal heads". He went from this genre to hardcore rap music. His speech and dialect changed to that of a poor southern person. Lastly, most importantly to this story, he actively pursued what he viewed as "monoracial Black women" e.g. very dark complexioned with bold Afrocentric physical features. A side note, this guy looked very similar to me in phenotype (Except he was very lean, and i'm bulky, a euphamism for chunky.lol) Needless to say, he was blatantly rejected by all of the women, he also pursued some lighter complexioned "black" women, which also rejected him. Their "excuse", they thought he was to "white" for them in phenotype. Anyways, he acquiesced, and decided to go out with a "White" girl. My God, you'd think the world had ended.......All the self-identifyed "Black" women that wouldn't give him the time of day were all of a sudden "outraged" that a "brotha" was "steppin' outside his race........Has this ever happened to anyone?
Never had that experience, but I know of people who had. Many people like your friend change when they go to college. Its not just mulattos or light skinned blacks, many black folks who dont fit into the established molds face this problem too.
College, or more specifically the people who attend colleges, can place an incredible amount of pressure on a student to conform to certain expected behaviors.
Your friend seems to have fallen prey to the need to overcompensate for his background. This, in my experience, is much more common in women than in men. Some extreme symptoms include engaging in hatin whitey rhetoric and acting black. I get the impression from your comments your friends behavior exhibited these elements.
The most unfortunate aspect of this is the extreme self-deprecation of ones appearance. This is usually engaged in for the purpose making others aware that you dont think you are better then they are because of how you look. This is more extreme in women than men, in my opinion. Sadly both the person who does this and the people he/she is doing it for are aware of the charade.
Your friends experience with dating doesnt surprise me. Despite his new-found identity, many women who look like him may have been dissuaded from dating him because he was too light and they didnt want to be perceived as favoring their own kind. Further, many want real black men (read dark and thuggish and or militant; sophisticated black men a la Sydney Potier need not apply) and are definitely not interested in him no matter how black he thinks hes acting. Black women may have rejected him because hes too light and they too want a real black man.
With women who are light, mixed, mulatto, etc. it can be much worse because men will often cast their gaze in their direction exclusively and they are often considered a prize by many black men. Consequently, they may be perceived as uppity if they decline a guys advances at the same time they may be perceived as thinking they are cute by women who have to compete with them for mens attention.
"No other "race" seems to be worried about being "denied." It is the "one drop" myth of "inferior black blood" that creates "denial." Get rid of it and there is no denial. Unfortunately, too many blacks have internalized the ODR and fight to maintain the racist genetic principles that traditionally branded them as less than fully human."
"the bonds of affection aren't enough to maintain the relationship. This says more about them than the people they are trying to socially imprison."
DAMN that is deep A.D.! Especially that last part...
See, that's what I was trying to explain to them. Even if their grandchildren look and identify as white, the love can STILL be there. Why shouldn't it be? There doesn't have to be a denial or feeling of being ashamed.
But that's what the propaganda film "Imitiation of Life" does to some people. Whole generations have been poisoned and scared by that film.
Gemini,
I don't know how the mixed/biracial population could be skipped over either. Personally, I think it would be GREAT if my son fell for a mixed heritage "beige" girl. They would have something in common and would sure bring us some beautiful grandchildren... BUT, if she's "white", "black", "asian", etc... I will STILL love my future daughter in-law because she loves my son.
I wouldn't dare mention being pleased if my son brought home a clearly biracial woman at BWWBC however. I'd be eaten alive by some...lol Many blacks are VERY insecure about the notion of "light on light" love. Because of their own insecurity, some feel that "light-skinned black" i.e. biracial/multiracial/creole etc... couples and families (especially attractive ones) are a threat. The truth is, it's often envy & jeolusy that is at the root of the tension.
On a side note, I believe that socieoeconomic status may play a part in the preferences of some biracial women. From personal observation, it seems like the ones raised in white environments lean towards white, biracial, and eurasian men. Some lean towards black men if they have money. The ones raised in inner-cities/ghettos tend to prefer black, sometimes hispanic.
Of course it also may have to do with which part of the country you're in...
Yeah I think it does depend on which part of the country, there are lots of successful, non mixed black men. Then you look at different 'subcultures' Sports, Entertainment, Fitness areas etc etc and there are different mindsets.
When I think of 2 similar biracial people dating/marrying/becoming friends, I see it(not all the time) as an 'appreciation' for their own 'ethnicity', does that make sense? I think there should be a bit more of it, even if it dating/marrying/befriending various degrees of admixture. For example I love Will Smith & Jada Pinkett as a couple and very beautiful kids. Not saying this is the only way to go, but it's a good visual. I think after Elementary(6th grade) I only dated girls of different degrees of mixed heritage, never dated a white girl(for some reason the ones that came on to me in high school and during the college years came across like I was or other black men were fetishes)
I think that, even though not outwardly appearing so, a lot of this discourse has roots in the multi/biracial person's dating spectrum and most probably could very well be another thread all together. Indulge me for a moment. In my life I have seen a variety of different "common theme" scenarios played out in the interracial dating axiom. From the self identified Black Female expressing the thought: I have had too many bad experiences with Black men so I wont date anything but white the self identified White Male expressing the thought: I find Black women to be feisty and more self assured than White women. To the self identified Black male expressing the thought: I find White women more docile and beautiful the self identified White female expressing the thought I find Black men more aggressive, surer of what they want and expressively more powerful in their love-making.
Although I have heard and/or seen many of these scenarios played out, they do not come close to the one(s) I have seen most in my life: Self identified Black male and female: I want my babies to have good hair and light skin. However, the crux of this is and really where my point drives home, It doesnt stop with I want my babies to have light skin and good hair it goes on to But I dont want to . or more importantly In order for me to do this I dont even have to marry outside my own race. Their counterparts, for the most part, are just as unhealthy, Black identified mixed race Whites and/or Mulatto/as male and female: I want my babies to turn out beautiful intrinsically saying/thinking I know Im not black enough, I dont want to marry a White, Mixed race male/female because my babies will turn out white or other. Which will inevitably bring the question by my beloved Black brothers and sisters: Do you think youre better than us? etc..
Now in your mind, most of you are thinking: yeah right, thats just a stereotype. But is it really? I mean yes it is a stereotype, but if any of you have ever lived in a racially mixed area with a small or large population of B/W interracial marriages/relationships and bi/multiracial or mixed white children or an area in which there is a population of intergenerational B/W multiracial or mixed white persons, I would gander youve seen this scenario.
What does this have to do with the topic, let alone the price of tea in China? A lot actually, it undercuts the very basic notion of mixed race self identification in that when its a self identified black and a multi/biracial person involved in a relationship its not usually identified as an interracial relationship in the Black community. Therefore, taking the social pressures of interracial relationships off of the self identified Black person when asked "What are you doing with that White Girl/Boy? Their response Oh he/she just LOOKS White. Im also aware that theres another side in which the self identified Black male/female will evilly glare at the mixed race person and say/think You think you are all that because of your European features. However, the Whiter the phenotype of the mixed race person, the more the former happens.
Until us as multi/biracial people stop giving into this ingrained ideology and accepting that This is just the way it is and has been forever. We will never truly begin to heal from the years of , as A.D. Powell has stated many times, racial rape and kidnapping weve so many times refused to acknowledge
Off my soap box now.
On another note, albeit a selfish one,
For those single Mixed Race women ..You know, beige is also beautiful and a very, VERY viable option. lol
Posted: Thu 19 May 2005 18:55 Post subject: Re: White grandchildren?
gemini072 wrote:
The interesting thing about cousin Kim, is that she doesn't look white, I've seen a few pictures of her and I just wouldn't think she was white at all, I easily assume she was mixed. It was sorta funny but in the article Kim talked about the time she went over a friends house for the first time, and found out the father was a grand wizard, and she sucked in her lips and something else to not appear black at all...
I have a confession to make. When I first read this article and saw this picture, I also thought the same thing that you said above Gemini072. But, when I stop and think about it, I realize that this is merely a symptom of my own ODR programming. This young lady actually does look white. She certainly does NOT look like a black woman and neither does her aunt. I'm going to speak for myself here and not make any assumptions on your part Gemini072. ODR brainwashing trains us to reject anyone as white if their appearance shows any "tampering of Negro ancestry". ODR brainwashing instills the notion of "white racial purity" and therefore we arrive at the perception that this girl doesn't look white at all when the truth is, she looks quite white. (As I said, I thought this when I first saw her picture.) I don't know what this girl looks like in person, but, she obviously is of predominate white heritage. The amusing thing is, in my opinion, she doesn't appear as Caucasian in appearance as her aunt, who identifies as black.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1763 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Thu 19 May 2005 19:14 Post subject:
Quote:
There is a scene where kidnapped African Kunte Kinte won't settle down in his chains. "Want me to give him a stripe or two, boss?" the old slave, Fiddler, asks his Master Reynolds.
"Do as I say, Fiddler," Reynolds answers. "That's all I expect from any of my niggers."
"Oh, I love you, Massa Reynolds," Fiddler tells him. And instantly, my mind draws political parallels. Ward Connerly, I think to myself. Armstrong Williams. Shelby Steele. Hyperbole, some might say. I say dead-on.
"Clarence Thomas," I say to Cousin Kim. And she just stares at me. She may be a little tender yet for racial metaphors. I see them everywhere.
I smelled the agenda of this writer in the beginning of the article.
mixedmom wrote:
The amusing thing is, in my opinion, she doesn't appear as Caucasian in appearance as her aunt, who identifies as black.
Mixedmom, I'm with you. After seeing the picture, the older cousin looks more European than the younger, phenotypically. The older one is slightly browner. I still would not consider either one as "African Amercan". That's me. I thought Lonnae would have been more African in phenotype from the way she was writing. She is a dream for Johnson Publications!!
Posted: Thu 19 May 2005 19:35 Post subject: Re: White grandchildren?
mixedmom wrote:
gemini072 wrote:
The interesting thing about cousin Kim, is that she doesn't look white, I've seen a few pictures of her and I just wouldn't think she was white at all, I easily assume she was mixed. It was sorta funny but in the article Kim talked about the time she went over a friends house for the first time, and found out the father was a grand wizard, and she sucked in her lips and something else to not appear black at all...
I have a confession to make. When I first read this article and saw this picture, I also thought the same thing that you said above Gemini072. But, when I stop and think about it, I realize that this is merely a symptom of my own ODR programming. This young lady actually does look white. She certainly does NOT look like a black woman and neither does her aunt. I'm going to speak for myself here and not make any assumptions on your part Gemini072. ODR brainwashing trains us to reject anyone as white if their appearance shows any "tampering of Negro ancestry". ODR brainwashing instills the notion of "white racial purity" and therefore we arrive at the perception that this girl doesn't look white at all when the truth is, she looks quite white. (As I said, I thought this when I first saw her picture.) I don't know what this girl looks like in person, but, she obviously is of predominate white heritage. The amusing thing is, in my opinion, she doesn't appear as Caucasian in appearance as her aunt, who identifies as black.
When I saw her I said the same thing, I thought the olde cousin looked more mediteranean or arabic, and I thought Kim looked mixed (I still don't think she looks-at least in the pictures I've seen-white) ...I never meant to say she looked Black, but she does have features that are distinguished that makes her look biracial.
Now what I also want to add is what does that actually mean? looks white... I'll explain my thinking, I'll refere to someone as white who is w.a.s.p. I think a lot of people do actually, Greek Italian, Turkish(everyone doesn't consider them white either) and some other Euro ethnic groups I see them in that light...example:I wouldn't say Sylvester Stallone looks 'white'
There is a scene where kidnapped African Kunte Kinte won't settle down in his chains. "Want me to give him a stripe or two, boss?" the old slave, Fiddler, asks his Master Reynolds.
"Do as I say, Fiddler," Reynolds answers. "That's all I expect from any of my niggers."
"Oh, I love you, Massa Reynolds," Fiddler tells him. And instantly, my mind draws political parallels. Ward Connerly, I think to myself. Armstrong Williams. Shelby Steele. Hyperbole, some might say. I say dead-on.
"Clarence Thomas," I say to Cousin Kim. And she just stares at me. She may be a little tender yet for racial metaphors. I see them everywhere.
I smelled the agenda of this writer in the beginning of the article.
mixedmom wrote:
The amusing thing is, in my opinion, she doesn't appear as Caucasian in appearance as her aunt, who identifies as black.
Mixedmom, I'm with you. After seeing the picture, the older cousin looks more European than the younger, phenotypically. The older one is slightly browner. I still would not consider either one as "African Amercan". That's me. I thought Lonnae would have been more African in phenotype from the way she was writing. She is a dream for Johnson Publications!!
lol I don't think she was trying to hide her purpose for the article Dean, actually when this actical came out it was sorta on time, it was just around the time there were wispers of race talks happening. It may not be what we would say, but it got people thinking about race in a different light
When I saw her I said the same thing, I thought the olde cousin looked more mediteranean or arabic, and I thought Kim looked mixed (I still don't think she looks-at least in the pictures I've seen-white) ...I never meant to say she looked Black, but she does have features that are distinguished that makes her look biracial.
My point is this, pervasive ODR influences cause us to only see "whiteness" when there's a complete absence of visualized "mixedness". This girl's overall appearance is white. There is some ambiguity in her facial features but since ODR brainwashing involuntarily compels us to conclude that ambiguity disqualifies membership in the white endogamous color group, this girl cannot look white since she has these features. Nevermind whether or not she looks black, the point here is, she cannot be seen as white and I think that this is heavily influenced by the "white racial purity" aspect of ODR ideology. Why else is it that we only see "whiteness" when "mixedness" cannot be detected? Then, when "mixedness" is detected, "whiteness" is no longer able to be seen even when it's obviously present. Can "mixedness" and "whiteness" coexist in a single individual? White racial purity says NO! ODR says that "mixedness" and "blackness" can coexist in a single individual and this usually goes unquestioned.
Last edited by mixedmom on Thu 19 May 2005 20:49; edited 1 time in total
There is a scene where kidnapped African Kunte Kinte won't settle down in his chains. "Want me to give him a stripe or two, boss?" the old slave, Fiddler, asks his Master Reynolds.
"Do as I say, Fiddler," Reynolds answers. "That's all I expect from any of my niggers."
"Oh, I love you, Massa Reynolds," Fiddler tells him. And instantly, my mind draws political parallels. Ward Connerly, I think to myself. Armstrong Williams. Shelby Steele. Hyperbole, some might say. I say dead-on.
"Clarence Thomas," I say to Cousin Kim. And she just stares at me. She may be a little tender yet for racial metaphors. I see them everywhere.
I smelled the agenda of this writer in the beginning of the article.
mixedmom wrote:
The amusing thing is, in my opinion, she doesn't appear as Caucasian in appearance as her aunt, who identifies as black.
Mixedmom, I'm with you. After seeing the picture, the older cousin looks more European than the younger, phenotypically. The older one is slightly browner. I still would not consider either one as "African Amercan". That's me. I thought Lonnae would have been more African in phenotype from the way she was writing. She is a dream for Johnson Publications!!
O'Neil Parker may feel the need to be as pro black as possible given her appearance and gender.
O'Neil Parker is from Washington DC where there are quite a few black elites who look like her. It's possible she has no recent white ancestors, but is the product of selective breeding among people who very light or near European in appearance. Ive come across a few of them since moving there.
Posted: Thu 19 May 2005 21:28 Post subject: Less "pure" every day
Even the Nordic countries are being represented by the racially mixed. Asian Americans seem to have a 25% cut-off point for being considered Asian American.
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Apparently the Miss Universe contestant from Denmark, Gitte Hanspal is half-Indian. Does this matter, besides the fact that it proves to the doubters that there are Indians in Denmark?
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See, that's what I was trying to explain to them. Even if their grandchildren look and identify as white, the love can STILL be there. Why shouldn't it be? There doesn't have to be a denial or feeling of being ashamed.
But that's what the propaganda film "Imitiation of Life" does to some people. Whole generations have been poisoned and scared by that film.
Part of the anti-passing propaganda includes anecdotal accounts of white biracial children disowning their "black" families in order to gain and maintain a white social status. There are plenty of these stories to fuel the folklore. The problem is, there are also many other stories of white multiracials who chose to be white without the melodrama and in some instances, this was done with the blessing of the "black" family. These stories are suppressed because they don't fit in with the anti-passing agenda.
zsana wrote:
I wouldn't dare mention being pleased if my son brought home a clearly biracial woman at BWWBC however. I'd be eaten alive by some...lol Many blacks are VERY insecure about the notion of "light on light" love. Because of their own insecurity, some feel that "light-skinned black" i.e. biracial/multiracial/creole etc... couples and families (especially attractive ones) are a threat. The truth is, it's often envy & jeolusy that is at the root of the tension.
Felicia, I'll bet (and I'm not even the betting type!) that there are other women on those boards who feel like you do but feel inhibited by the racial bullies. I wouldn't even be suprised if it were found out that some of them would prefer their children to marry whites. Now, who in their right minds would say THAT on these boards even though the question is (deceptively) poised to invite a civil discussion?
I think that mulatto-mulatto coupling and preference is viewed by blacks as yet another group's exclusion and rejection of them. This is probably what the insecurity is based on.
If some of those women spent 10-20 hours in labor with their prospective children, I think they are ALLOWED any feelings that they may have. Its their children! Its not up to strangers on the interenet (from God knows where in the world) to decide for them what they think is BEST for their children. I doubt very few people know their situation better than them!
Lastly, everyone will find a million EXCUSES for their opinions. If I really wanted to I could go on and on about most women on BWWBC probably wanted their children to marry Whites because their children would have easier lives, or that most of the women on BWWBC wanted to be 'White" anyway, or I could make even more excuses about them thinking White children where cutier anyway...........
But all these speculations are nothing but STRANGERS on the internet's THEORIES. All that is for certain is that they can approve or disapprove any marriage they want for THEIR OWN children
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