This kind of thing used to crop up at Mixed Folks.com from time to time. Some on there swore there were differences in genotype and phenotype between "mixed people" (biracials) and light-skinned blacks that could be perceived easily. One person even claimed he could tell the difference between the two most of the time.
Its true, no matter how much people are fighting to deny it. I've been around enough to know this. For the most part there are definate phenotypical differences between average black people (of afro-american parentage), and bi-racial people (people with an afro-american parent, and a non-black parent), that are easily perceived by people who are familiar with them.
I can tell, and i'm almost always right. Lighter skinned afro- americans, tend towards the "blacker" side of the phenotypical spectrum, and typically have 100% kinky hair.
Bi-racial people look nothing like us.
Quote:
Mixing black and white can bring about a variety of complexions and phenotypes.
True. But this is pointing out the exceptions, most of the tme mixed race people, are physically distinguished from the majority of afro-american people, whom may have similar skin complexion only.
It makes sense, because they have a dramatically different ethnic background (genotype) than the average "light skinned" afro-american.
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 {Posts: 283 } Location: Akron, Ohio
Posted: Wed 01 Nov 2006 03:17 Post subject:
So after reading the past three pages I have a question (in a moment). And I believe it's been answered already but I'll ask anyway.
When I was an early teenager I had always wondered why my mom looked so different than her ''dad'' and mom. Her dad was typically black-looking in every sense of the phrase. Her mom was really dark but had straight, silky, black hair. My mom was ''white-looking'' or so the talk went. In fact my mom and I were the only ''white sheep'' in the family. Of course later on in the following years I knew there had to be another answer and I found it one day a few months ago in Indianapolis, IN.
My uncle and I were talking about our family situation in Greenville, MS from a time long ago and I asked him about my mom's ''dad'' situation and I received the only answer I thought possible. No, that person wasn't her dad. My mom's biological dad was a light-skinned black fellow he said.
Here's the question: if mom's dad was fair-complected and her mom was really dark, why wouldn't my mom's complexion fall somewhere in between the two parents? Mom's complexion shows none of her mom's color. Not even close. Would this be some of this allele talk alluded to earlier?
if mom's dad was fair-complected and her mom was really dark, why wouldn't my mom's complexion fall somewhere in between the two parents? Mom's complexion shows none of her mom's color. Not even close. Would this be some of this allele talk alluded to earlier?
Yes. The child of a very fair Nordic-looking parent and a very dark Nigerian-looking parent will have a skin-tone in between the two, guaranteed. But the skin tone of a child of two mixed parents can fall just about anywhere.
This kind of thing used to crop up at Mixed Folks.com from time to time. Some on there swore there were differences in genotype and phenotype between "mixed people" (biracials) and light-skinned blacks that could be perceived easily. One person even claimed he could tell the difference between the two most of the time.
Its true, no matter how much people are fighting to deny it. I've been around enough to know this. For the most part there are definate phenotypical differences between average black people (of afro-american parentage), and bi-racial people (people with an afro-american parent, and a non-black parent), that are easily perceived by people who are familiar with them.
I can tell, and i'm almost always right. Lighter skinned afro- americans, tend towards the "blacker" side of the phenotypical spectrum, and typically have 100% kinky hair.
Bi-racial people look nothing like us.
Quote:
Mixing black and white can bring about a variety of complexions and phenotypes.
True. But this is pointing out the exceptions, most of the tme mixed race people, are physically distinguished from the majority of afro-american people, whom may have similar skin complexion only.
It makes sense, because they have a dramatically different ethnic background (genotype) than the average "light skinned" afro-american.
Please tell me more.
Those supposedly obvious characteristics of biracials tend to come from a Mixed ancestry Black person and a White person, not a predominantly African decent Black person and White person.
Then lets factor in native or Hindi ancestry. NO, not all Black people have kinky hair, and not all liht skinned Blacks have kinky hair.
Yes, tell me about Vanessa Williams kinky hair and that of her children.
This kind of thing used to crop up at Mixed Folks.com from time to time. Some on there swore there were differences in genotype and phenotype between "mixed people" (biracials) and light-skinned blacks that could be perceived easily. One person even claimed he could tell the difference between the two most of the time.
Its true, no matter how much people are fighting to deny it. I've been around enough to know this. For the most part there are definate phenotypical differences between average black people (of afro-american parentage), and bi-racial people (people with an afro-american parent, and a non-black parent), that are easily perceived by people who are familiar with them.
Between the average black/African American person and the average biracial person yes in most cases there is a difference in appearance, but the person I was referencing claimed, despite the fact that many biracials look like many light-skinned black people (including especially this particular person), a black/non-black biracial person could easily be discerned most of the time from a light-skinned black person. Not the average black person.
Phil345 wrote:
I can tell, and i'm almost always right. Lighter skinned afro- americans, tend towards the "blacker" side of the phenotypical spectrum, and typically have 100% kinky hair.
On average, depending on where you live, probably. But as I wrote earlier, often one cannot tell the difference. Indeed isn't this what biracial people hear when they are told they look black?
Phil345 wrote:
Bi-racial people look nothing like us.
On average and in general no, but there are many people in the black community, and I don't mean people who are very ambiguous looking who are no different in appearance from many biracial people, as there are many biracial people who are no different in appearance from many light-skinned blacks. Lenny Kravitz and former New York state judge, Bruce Wright come to mind.
Naturally this may vary from place to place in the U.S. In Virginia, where I live, I come across quite a few African Americans who look like they could be biracial. In Washington DC and Maryland I've met even more. Atlanta is chock full of people who look "biracial". As I told a mulatto-identified biracial person on another message board, there’s nothing really unique about how she looked. Depending on where she went in the U.S. she could find many people who look just like her within the African American community. Are they in the majority or do they represent the average black person in the U.S.? No.
But as I wrote earlier, often one cannot tell the difference. Indeed isn't this what biracial people hear when they are told they look black?
Exactly.
Phil345 wrote:
Quote:
Its true, no matter how much people are fighting to deny it. I've been around enough to know this. For the most part there are definate phenotypical differences between average black people (of afro-american parentage), and bi-racial people (people with an afro-american parent, and a non-black parent), that are easily perceived by people who are familiar with them.
The thing is, "light-skinned blacks" are not the average in the black/African-American community. The topic being discussed is Biracial vs. Light-SkinnedBlack looks. Not biracial vs. average black looks.
Quote:
Bi-racial people look nothing like us.
Really? Nothing? At what point does one transition from looking biracial to light-skinned black? I really want to understand this.
Below are more Americans (predominantly African-American/black identified) with some degree of Afro/European ancestry. Some are directly biracial as in having one white parent while others aren't. The "difference" is clear?
Here are baseball stars Alex Rodriguez(middle) and Derek Jeter(far right). One is biracial, white mother, black father, and the other one is multigenerationally mixed. Can you tell by looking which one is which?
despite the fact that many biracials look like many light-skinned black people (including especially this particular person), a black/non-black biracial person could easily be discerned most of the time from a light-skinned black person.
....and this is true. Black people (American) who may fall into the same color range as many bi-racial people (afro-american/non-black), look phenotypically distinct from them most of the time.
Bill Withers exemplifies what I'm talking about, and you will find that most lighter skinned black people will look more like this phenotypically ("black" features/nappy hair), where as bi/multi-racial people tend towards ethnic ambiguity.
It sounds like empty speculation, and generalization, but I'm sure theres a real reason for this, that can be shown with technical admixture maps and stuff...bi-racial people (afro-american/non-black) more than likely have a very different make up than most lightskinned afro-americans.
Quote:
On average, depending on where you live, probably. But as I wrote earlier, often one cannot tell the difference. Indeed isn't this what biracial people hear when they are told they look black?
Yes theres overlap, and some bi-racial people look black and vise-versa, but its usually pretty clear.
Even some of you who are adamant that this isnt true, would never assume that people who look like Queen Latifah were bi-racial..because they simply dont look it...even though they may have similar complexion to alot of bi-racial people.
zsana wrote:
The thing is, "light-skinned blacks" are not the average in the black/African-American community. The topic being discussed is Biracial vs. Light-Skinned Black looks. Not biracial vs. average black looks.
Thats what I meant though, in the context of this thread: the average "lightskinned" black person.
mixedmom wrote:
Here are baseball stars Alex Rodriguez(middle) and Derek Jeter(far right). One is biracial, white mother, black father, and the other one is multigenerationally mixed. Can you tell by looking which one is which?
Alex Rodriguez is not afro-american. A better example would be a picture of Derek Jeter next to Grant Hill; most people would be able to tell the difference.
How would you even compare apples to apples in this discussion to conclude that LSB Americans/MGMs and FGMs/biracial look different? Compare the "look" of people with the same admixture percentages? Compare rates at which blue/green eyes appear in the population? Compare average hair texture? Facial structure?
And what about the children of American FGMs/biracials? Do they turn into LSBs if their biracial parents marries a Black American person of any phenotype? Do they keep on the biracial trend if their biracial parent had children with White person or another biracial person who is American? Does procreating with a non-American of any background complicate this picture?
I mean what are we talking about here exactly? To say someone looks "different" isn't very convincing.
How would you even compare apples to apples in this discussion to conclude that LSB Americans/MGM and FGMs/biracial look different?
easy.
Quote:
Compare the "look" of people with the same admixture percentages?
No not at all; the point would be to show that we probably wouldnt have the same admixture percentages as them at all; which is what people in this thread have been implying.
Compare bi-racial people with afro-americans (people with black parents, grands, and great grands) that have similar skin complexion only.... and the two groups would probably have very different admixture percentages, which would explain the reason why we more often look different.
How would you even compare apples to apples in this discussion to conclude that LSB Americans/MGMs and FGMs/biracial look different? Compare the "look" of people with the same admixture percentages? Compare rates at which blue/green eyes appear in the population? Compare average hair texture? Facial structure?
True....When it's all said and done, there is no definite way to tell by looking at LSBs and FGM/biracials. Some black people and many FGM/biracials believe they can, but it is not an exact science.
Here are some examples:
Prince is the only one in the bunch who is not biracial.
How would you even compare apples to apples in this discussion to conclude that LSB Americans/MGM and FGMs/biracial look different?
easy.
Quote:
Compare the "look" of people with the same admixture percentages?
No not at all; the point would be to show that we probably wouldnt have the same admixture percentages as them at all; which is what people in this thread have been implying.
Compare bi-racial people with afro-americans (people with black parents, grands, and great grands) that have similar skin complexion only.... and the two groups would probably have very different admixture percentages, which would explain the reason why we more often look different.
Okay I think I understand what you are getting at now. Are you essentially saying the the average LSB will likely have more African ancestry than a biracial person with the same skin tone?
If so I think you'd get into trouble because how many LSBs can go back 3 generations with NO White ancestors? I'm a Black/Afro-American, not lightskinned, and even all of my g-grandparents are not Black. Perhaps the uppercrust families on the East Coast and Creoles, but how many people in those family lines ahave been Black-identified biracials? And how would you account for the entry of foreign biracials into the gene pool, such as Haitian mulattos (especially in the NE)?
That's why I asked, and I think others have too, how and when does a biracial turn into a LSB?
And what about the children of American FGMs/biracials? Do they turn into LSBs if their biracial parents marries a Black American person of any phenotype? Do they keep on the biracial trend if their biracial parent had children with White person or another biracial person who is American? Does procreating with a non-American of any background complicate this picture?
See, that's what I want to know too.
Phil345 wrote:
Quote:
No not at all; the point would be to show that we probably wouldnt have the same admixture percentages as them at all; which is what people in this thread have been implying.
The point of this thread is not whether or not there are differences in the percentage of Afro/European ancestry between first generation biracials and light-skinned blacks, but instead whether or not one can tell just by looking, which group a particular person belongs.
More biracial "exceptions to the rule"...
Michael Lamey (Nigerian mother British father)
Sofoklis Schortsanitis (Greek Macedonian father, Cameroonian mother)
Omero Mumba (Singer Samantha Mumba's little brother)
Patrick Owomoyela (German mother, Nigerian father)
Jerry Rawlings (Ghanaian mother, Scottish father)
Paul Boateng with his siblings (Also Ghanaian and Scottish)
Last edited by zsana on Wed 01 Nov 2006 21:58; edited 3 times in total
Okay I think I understand what you are getting at now. Are you essentially saying the the average LSB will likely have more African ancestry than a biracial person with the same skin tone?
Yes this is my contention. "Light" afro-americans look "blacker" on average, because they're usually of predominant african ancestry...
From what I understand from admixture studies, a bi-racial person would typically have more than half non-black ancestry.
If this is true, it would make sense to me why we look different. I doubt queen Latifah or Jill Scott would be anywhere near as "mixed" as a bi-racial person that is the same color; and this is evident in the difference in their features.
Quote:
And how would you account for the entry of foreign biracials into the gene pool, such as Haitian mulattos (especially in the NE)?
That's why I asked, and I think others have too, how and when does a biracial turn into a LSB?
Foreign people dont count. I made this caveat a couple pages ago. I'm talking about the context of the united states, and differences between afro-americans, and bi-racial people (people with and afro-american parent, and a non-black parent).
Usually when people bring up these examples of folks that look like a stereotypical lightskinned afro-american, its somebody from overseas, thats half african (i.e Boris Kodjeo -sp?) Like all of zsana's "biracial exceptions to the rule"
zsana wrote:
More biracial "exceptions to the rule"...
Michael Lamey (Nigerian mother British father)
Sofoklis Schortsanitis (Greek Macedonian father, Cameroonian mother)
Omero Mumba (Singer Samantha Mumba's little brother)
Patrick Owomoyela (German mother, Nigerian father)
Jerry Rawlings (Ghanaian mother, Scottish father)
Paul Boateng with his siblings (Also Ghanaian and Scottish)
I will agree that there are a number of "throwback" cases (for lack of a better term) in many African-American identified predominately black families. But there are also a number of situations where the Great Grandparents right on down to the Great Grandchildren are of obvious stereotypical biracial appearance. Long lines of families where endogomy has and continues to be practiced. If/when these people publicly classify themselves as black/African-American they are also considered "light-skinned blacks" by many to most Americans brought up under the ideology of the ODR.
Of course there are some mixed race(yet black identified) families who've practiced endogamy for generations. If the great grandparents all the way down to the great grandchildren look steretypically bi-racial, I would still think of them as multiracials, maybe culturally black. Society might think of them as "light skinned blacks", I personally don't. These type of families are rare though.
On the otherhand, there are situations where almost everyone in the family is stereotypically black, with a few individuals that look mixed. The people who are ''light skinned/mixed looking'' are distiguishable from multiracials because of the way they speak and act. They usually have brothers, sisters or parents who are dark and most of their family members are african american. I think this is more common.
The point of this thread is not whether or not there are differences in the percentage of Afro/European ancestry between first generation biracials and light-skinned blacks, but instead whether or not one can tell just by looking, which group a particular person belongs.
What I was implying by bringing up the likely difference in admixture, is that we look different because of that.
Also It should be made clear that I was never talking about "multi-generationally mixed" people in general, but specifically light afro-americans; which is the only group that could refered to as "light skinned blacks" anyway.
Foreign people dont count. I made this caveat a couple pages ago. I'm talking about the context of the united states, and differences between afro-americans, and bi-racial people (people with and afro-american parent, and a non-black parent).
LOL Phil we are a nation of immigrants, that's why I brought up the foreign aspect. Take Will Smith, for example. He is Black American of Haitian descent. The reason why Zsana's examples of African/European biracials are relevant is because they are only a green card away from being the future ancestor of a LSB person. So you can't really discount them because you'd have to remove all LSBs with foreign ancestry.
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 {Posts: 283 } Location: Akron, Ohio
Posted: Thu 02 Nov 2006 03:00 Post subject:
Mixedmom, Light Skinned Black. And I don't have a clue what a FGM is. I'm working on it though. It's hard to keep up never having been exposed to all this ''new'' type conversation. I do however find it very interesting. You guys are getting me hooked.
'
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in
