Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 46 } Location: Soon to be in Europe
Posted: Mon 23 May 2005 21:41 Post subject: Overlaps
OVERLAPS
At Interracial Voice, some individuals would express their hesitation with the idea of persons with West African ancestry embracing their totality of ancestry. Sometimes the rationale for this hesitation would take the form of relating the creation of a multiracial group in the United States with certain historically and geographically cited societies in which a "coloured" class operated at a social level between "whites" and "blacks". In plain English, the argument sometimes went like this:
"Do you people wish to duplicate the 'house negro'/'field negro' dichotomy as occured during U.S. slavery? What about the horrible society of pre-revolutionary Saint-Domingue? And don't forget the Apartheid regime in South Africa, with a 'Cape Coloured' caste holding a position above 'blacks' "
While I was a regular poster to Interracial Voice, I never answered those arguments. Quite frankly, I was amazed that they were made by educated people.
There are too many overlaps for this to occur in the United States. What do I mean by overlaps?
Thanks to the progress made by "blacks", due to their own doing, assistance from others and the belated allowances made by the U.S. Government (examples, Civil Rights Acts of the mid-1960s, the 1954 Supreme Court Decision, Harry Truman's desegregation of the Armed Forces., F.D. Roosevelt's Federal Government desegregation, the 13th/14th/15th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution), 'blacks" are in a position of substantial economic and educational placement. There are "blacks" in every level of society from multimillionaire on down--and it would be impossible to juxtapose a three-caste society (with multiracials in the middle) in the United States. There are too many "blacks" in positions of strength.
Thus, for every Latino or multiracial who could harbor thoughts of being at some higher level in the United States, there are "blacks" who overlap him--Latino sergeant encounters "black" captain, multiracial electrician encounters "black" electrical engineer, etc.
This scenario is played out all over the United States. There is none of the rigidity and absolute status difference between "blacks" and others as occured in slave or Apartheid societies. Moreover, in the one society usually compared to the U.S. (Brasil), "blacks" in the U.S. outdistance similarly-complexioned persons in Brasil economically, educationally and politically.
"Blacks" are in a unique position (and have been for 30 years) to ascend to the next stage of their struggle for dignity--and that is to simply continue their admirable progress and give the One Drop Rule a rest. There are enough "blacks" and others to render stupid(er) any idiot harboring the kind of colorism recently discussed and featured (by articles) in this Forum. How? By telling the truth--and the truth is that (as in Latin America) large, large numbers of people find darker women and men extremely attactive. I see a lot of this colorism business as an outgrowth of extremely concentrated capitalism (which is not ordinary capitalism). Media images in this type of mass culture literally flood forth with a take-no-prisoners, sell-what-sells mind-numbing conformity.
Conformity??
My morena wife and I were recently looking at a film with a blonde female lead. Suddenly, a young woman appeared on the screen in a different scene. I watched it as long as I could, getting more and more confused by the second. Finally, I couldn't take it any more. "Honey", I asked my wife, "Is that the same woman who is the main female character."
She smiled at me and said, "No, Dear. That's a young lady sent by the villain to tempt the hero."
I had had no idea that I was looking at two different blonde women. This is, many times, my reaction when I expose myself to U.S. mass media.
Any woman who takes seriously these inane articles dealing with "how attractive one is by color" has my profound sympathy.
I'm glad that somebody finally answered this question. I've brought up the "house negro/field negro" question before, but nobody ever gives me a detailed answer. I agree with Javier that there are "blacks" in every level of society but if you pay closer attention, the majority of them are really mulattos who identify as black.A three-caste society already exists in the Unites States, it's just not as extreme as it was in during slavery or during Aparthied in South Africa. Most of the famous "black" leaders are mulattos, most of the famous "black" actresses in Hollywood are mulattos, most of the "blacks" who are in positions of stenght are really mulattos.
The only difference between the U.S. and the countries that Javier listed, is that mulattos are given a black social label. If there were a multiracial community in the U.S. and there were no one drop rule, multiracial people would have distanced themselves from the black community, leaving us with no real accomplishments. Someone one on this message board even admitted that multiracials in America have more opportunity and have accomplished more than blacks.
I'm glad that somebody finally answered this question. I've brought up the "house negro/field negro" question before, but nobody ever gives me a detailed answer. I agree with Javier that there are "blacks" in every level of society but if you pay closer attention, the majority of them are really mulattos who identify as black.A three-caste society already exists in the Unites States, it's just not as extreme as it was in during slavery or during Aparthied in South Africa. Most of the famous "black" leaders are mulattos, most of the famous "black" actresses in Hollywood are mulattos, most of the "blacks" who are in positions of stenght are really mulattos.
The only difference between the U.S. and the countries that Javier listed, is that mulattos are given a black social label. If there were a multiracial community in the U.S. and there were no one drop rule, multiracial people would have distanced themselves from the black community, leaving us with no real accomplishments. Someone one on this message board even admitted that multiracials in America have more opportunity and have accomplished more than blacks.
I hear what your saying, and Javier has made a very strong arguement...I seriously became enlightened. There are a large number of non mixed Blacks in various positions of power weither it be entertainment, politics / government, military etc etc, plus I don't think as a whole that Americans right now have some kind of preference in that area overall. Especially when we look at this society there seems to be a preference for the darker man over the mulatto/mixed looking man, the more exotic looking dark-light woman over just the mulatta/mixed woman. Women like Naomi Campbell, Oprah Winfrey, Whoopi Goldberg, Maya Angelo are darker skinned women in very visible American eyesight. Dark skinned men that range from military, politics, entertainment, sports: Denzel Washington, Michael Jordan, Tyson Beckford. Lot's of everyday successful 'non mixed' Black families, business owners etc etc
Posted: Tue 24 May 2005 18:39 Post subject: Re: Overlaps
javier wrote:
OVERLAPS
At Interracial Voice, some individuals would express their hesitation with the idea of persons with West African ancestry embracing their totality of ancestry. Sometimes the rationale for this hesitation would take the form of relating the creation of a multiracial group in the United States with certain historically and geographically cited societies in which a "coloured" class operated at a social level between "whites" and "blacks". In plain English, the argument sometimes went like this:
"Do you people wish to duplicate the 'house negro'/'field negro' dichotomy as occured during U.S. slavery? What about the horrible society of pre-revolutionary Saint-Domingue? And don't forget the Apartheid regime in South Africa, with a 'Cape Coloured' caste holding a position above 'blacks' "
While I was a regular poster to Interracial Voice, I never answered those arguments. Quite frankly, I was amazed that they were made by educated people.
There are too many overlaps for this to occur in the United States. What do I mean by overlaps?
Thanks to the progress made by "blacks", due to their own doing, assistance from others and the belated allowances made by the U.S. Government (examples, Civil Rights Acts of the mid-1960s, the 1954 Supreme Court Decision, Harry Truman's desegregation of the Armed Forces., F.D. Roosevelt's Federal Government desegregation, the 13th/14th/15th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution), 'blacks" are in a position of substantial economic and educational placement. There are "blacks" in every level of society from multimillionaire on down--and it would be impossible to juxtapose a three-caste society (with multiracials in the middle) in the United States. There are too many "blacks" in positions of strength.
Thus, for every Latino or multiracial who could harbor thoughts of being at some higher level in the United States, there are "blacks" who overlap him--Latino sergeant encounters "black" captain, multiracial electrician encounters "black" electrical engineer, etc.
This scenario is played out all over the United States. There is none of the rigidity and absolute status difference between "blacks" and others as occured in slave or Apartheid societies. Moreover, in the one society usually compared to the U.S. (Brasil), "blacks" in the U.S. outdistance similarly-complexioned persons in Brasil economically, educationally and politically.
"Blacks" are in a unique position (and have been for 30 years) to ascend to the next stage of their struggle for dignity--and that is to simply continue their admirable progress and give the One Drop Rule a rest. There are enough "blacks" and others to render stupid(er) any idiot harboring the kind of colorism recently discussed and featured (by articles) in this Forum. How? By telling the truth--and the truth is that (as in Latin America) large, large numbers of people find darker women and men extremely attactive. I see a lot of this colorism business as an outgrowth of extremely concentrated capitalism (which is not ordinary capitalism). Media images in this type of mass culture literally flood forth with a take-no-prisoners, sell-what-sells mind-numbing conformity.
Conformity??
My morena wife and I were recently looking at a film with a blonde female lead. Suddenly, a young woman appeared on the screen in a different scene. I watched it as long as I could, getting more and more confused by the second. Finally, I couldn't take it any more. "Honey", I asked my wife, "Is that the same woman who is the main female character."
She smiled at me and said, "No, Dear. That's a young lady sent by the villain to tempt the hero."
I had had no idea that I was looking at two different blonde women. This is, many times, my reaction when I expose myself to U.S. mass media.
Any woman who takes seriously these inane articles dealing with "how attractive one is by color" has my profound sympathy.
I never thought hard about how to answer that question, so thank you. I haven't personally heard much about that in conversations but I will definately be ready. I never put 2 n 2 together like that.
There is a commercial about hair care for women that I see a lot. It shows every woman of any possible ethnic background walking down the street in blond straight wigs, and then later they all throw them off, like they are now free, then a few of the women talked about how they felt that was the kind of hair they should have.
Something I noticed is that in certain Pop music, and Hollywood areas everyone seems to become blond...
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 46 } Location: Soon to be in Europe
Posted: Tue 24 May 2005 20:59 Post subject:
I wish I had a "Tyrone" pill which I could dissolve in the U.S. general water supply. In Ty's posts to-day, written at 18:28 and 18:39 (especially the one written at 18:28), he has hit the proverbial nail on the head.
There are enough inconsistencies (e.g. "black" movers and shakers standing above any number of lighter-skinned people) present in U.S. society to provide enough variance to neutralize, in a variety of settings, the petty colorism and "racism" that a person like me could be tempted to exhibit (and I am not tempted, being 57 years of age and choosing to act 57).
Now, a darker person cannot stop some idiotic female rejecting him if he is not light enough and his hair is too kinky. Nor can he inhibit some "white" male militiaman wishing to connect him with monkeys.
But, for darker people in the U.S., the tools are present to expand on gains made, consolidate resources and, above all, further connect and intertwine with the rest of humanity.
'
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