Posted: Wed 10 Jan 2007 19:35 Post subject: Zoe Kravitz
I was a big fan of the Cosby show in the mid to late 1980's. I remember when Lisa Bonet was pregnant with her daughter. Zoe's 18th birthday was December 1, 2006. It's hard to believe that she's already 18. It looks as if she's following in her mother's footsteps.
Lenny Kravitz's little girl Zoe shows she's an old rock n roll soul in a young girls body as she graces the cover of French fashion mag Jalouse . She may grow up to be like daddy after all.
What do you think? Does she look like her mother?
Last edited by mixedmom on Thu 11 Jan 2007 15:01; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 168 } Location: Mid-Atlantic States; USA
Posted: Wed 10 Jan 2007 20:41 Post subject:
I've always thought highly of Ms. Lisa Bonet, for one simple reason,
she always stood up as a self-identified Multiracial person; even
in the face of subtle death threats and even if it meant losing her
TV job with Mr. Cosby. Only after she wed did she begin backing
off of her self-identity, probably because her multiracial husband
(a decent and good man) was then strongly black self-identified.
But her "giving in" didn't last long, and she was soon back standing
up for her mixed self-identity, come hell or high water. And yes,
with my own ears, I heard her death being called for on national
radio by a nationally known African American leader, because she
dared to not call herself Black. I heard the person actually say she
should be killed for being a race traitor. And of course, the White
American folks who set up the ODR system in the first place, sat
by sweetly and innocently and let the abuse happen. So I can't just
blame one race over another. It was collective abuse. Yet, be that
as it may, poor courageous little Lisa (God bless her) was out there,
all on her own; representing. For that reason, I humbly include
her as one of my honorary nieces. It takes guts to sacrifice all for
principle. May Creator's blessings be upon Ms. Lisa and upon her
daughter, and also upon Lisa's mother and father, and upon Lisa's
ex-husband, Mr. Lenny Kravitz. May they and all of their loved
ones enjoy only the best. Today our American people are some
of the kindest and most caring people on the earth. We as a nation
are striving hard to overcome our divided past. We have so much
for which to be grateful. So today, looking back, Ms. Bonet's sacrifice
may not look like much. Yet, I know how hard it was to stand up,
especially back in those days; and I respect deeply, all who did.
Leo Y. "Ireland" Abdulmalik
Last edited by leosprycat on Thu 11 Jan 2007 08:49; edited 1 time in total
I've always thought highly of Ms. Lisa Bonet, for one simple reason,
she always stood up as a self-identified Multiracial person; even
in the face of subtle death threats and even if it meant losing her
TV job with Mr. Cosby. Only after she wed did she begin backing
off of her self-identity, probably because her multiracial husband
(a decent and good man) was then strongly black self-identified.
But her "giving in" didn't last long, and she was soon back standing
up for her mixed self-identity, come hell or high water. And yes,
with my own ears, I heard her death being called for on national
radio by a nationally known African American leader, because she
dared to not call herself Black. I heard the person actually say she
should be killed for being a race traitor. And of course, the White
American folks who set up the ODR system in the first place, sat
by sweetly and innocently and let the abuse happen.
I had no idea she received death threats for this wow! I know one or two of my black friends in college were hostile to how she identified. Frankly, I was little concerned about her choice too because my thinking on racial issues was different back then, but wasn’t as hysterical about it as some of the people I ran with back then.
It needs mentioning that the different ways in which she and her ex-husband racially identify have absolutely no bearing on their behavior. Kravitz is just as much a bohemian as Bonet. Despite Kravitz’s proclamation that he is black, his music is still atypically black by today’s standards, eclectic as it is. His music is actually more reminiscent of an earlier time in the late 60s and 70s when some black musicians were more experimental, and even these musicians were outside of the mainstream of black music during that period.
There have been very few to no black women in his videos. And finally, his dating habits haven’t included many black women. He’s been linked to everyone from Kate Hudson (why?) with whom he had an affair to Brazilian super model Adriana Lima . None of these women is black. I’m not aware of him being linked to any black women recently. Bonet’s dating habits apparently don’t include many black men.
Kravitz is no more “black” in attitude or behavior than Bonet, so re-labeling yourself or identifying as “A” instead of “B” won’t generate any significant change in your behavior or how you live your life. Bonet is just as confused or not as Kravitz.
I was never aware of any racial identity for Ms. Bonet. I suppose that I assumed that she identified as black because of her role as a black teenager on the Cosby Show. When did she start claiming her balanced heritage? I also had no idea that she had received death threats for claiming to be mixed instead of black. Were these threats mainly from blacks? The last that I read of her, she married a white yoga instructor and had one or two boys with him. I remember seeing her in a role (way post Cosby show) where she portrayed a character in a sci-fi action movie. Her race wasn't a focus but her character was married to a white hero in the movie and a white child was cast as her son.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 168 } Location: Mid-Atlantic States; USA
Posted: Thu 11 Jan 2007 17:36 Post subject:
mixedmom wrote:
I was never aware of any racial identity for Ms. Bonet. I suppose that I assumed that she identified as black because of her role as a black teenager on the Cosby Show. When did she start claiming her balanced heritage? I also had no idea that she had received death threats for claiming to be mixed instead of black. Were these threats mainly from blacks? The last that I read of her, she married a white yoga instructor and had one or two boys with him. I remember seeing her in a role (way post Cosby show) where she portrayed a character in a sci-fi action movie. Her race wasn't a focus but her character was married to a white hero in the movie and a white child was cast as her son.
Yes Ma'am, Lisa was a brave little Lady, who quietly tried to do her show with
a "live and let live" respect for everyone, while always refusing to be a doormat.
It must have been lonely. Most Whites were crazy about Ms. Lisa. But few if any
seemed willing to stick their necks out for her right to break ODR tradition & self-
identify. Yet, quietly alone & willingly risking all, Lisa pushed on; paving the way.
I remember years and years ago (back when Bryant Gumble was still on the Today Show) she was interviewed. I think it was after that movie Angel Heart. Oh my God that was 20 years ago!
Anyway, she was being interviewed by Bryant and he was saying things like "you're young, successful, attractive, talented, blah blah blah...", than he said "and black". Lisa piped up - OK she raised her voice a little - and said "NOT black". I don't know if that's when she started receiving these death threats or not. Wow I didn't even know about that.
That's pretty sick stuff. Bryant looked kinda shocked and perplexed. He paused, then he went on with the interview.
This is first I'm hearing of there ever being any kind of controversy over Lisa Bonets identity. I doubt this claim.
Quote:
I've always thought highly of Ms. Lisa Bonet, for one simple reason,
she always stood up as a self-identified Multiracial person; even
in the face of subtle death threats and even if it meant losing her
TV job with Mr. Cosby.
You are definatley misconstruing something. The only controversy was about her lifestyle while she was filming the Cosby show, and some R-rated film projects she chose to do that Cosby and the producers took issue with (claiming that it was ruining her characters image). That is why she was frequently in the hot seat, and critisized by Cosby and the producers, and eventually fired from the show.....but then moved to the spin off series (A different World) as a compromise.
with my own ears, I heard her death being called for on national radio by a nationally known African American leader, because she dared to not call herself Black. I heard the person actually say she should be killed for being a race traitor.
Phil345 wrote:
This is first I'm hearing of there ever being any kind of controversy over Lisa Bonets identity. I doubt this claim. You are definatley misconstruing something. The only controversy was about her lifestyle... It had nothing to do with her identity.
Since Phil345 disbelieves leosprycat's recollection, perhaps leosprycat could elucidate further.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 168 } Location: Mid-Atlantic States; USA
Posted: Fri 12 Jan 2007 04:30 Post subject:
Phil345 wrote:
This is first I'm hearing of there ever being any kind of controversy over Lisa Bonets identity. I doubt this claim.
Quote:
I've always thought highly of Ms. Lisa Bonet, for one simple reason,
she always stood up as a self-identified Multiracial person; even
in the face of subtle death threats and even if it meant losing her
TV job with Mr. Cosby.
You are definatley misconstruing something. The only controversy was about her lifestyle while she was filming the Cosby show, and some R-rated film projects she chose to do that Cosby and the producers took issue with (claiming that it was ruining her characters image). That is why she was frequently in the hot seat, and critisized by Cosby and the producers, and eventually fired from the show.....but then moved to the spin off series (A different World) as a compromise.
It had nothing to do with her identity.
Sir, first you say this is the first you've heard of it. Then you turn around and say you doubt that I'm being truthful. Then you move on to saying that I'm "definitely misconstruing something". Then you go on to tell us what the only controversy concerned, and why she was having trouble with Mr. Cosby. Then you end up saying it had "nothing to do" with her identity. I also guess you're saying I didn't hear what I heard the Black leader say on the radio. And that she didn't openly self-identify as mixed. And that also the African American people where perfectly okay with her self-identification. Mr. Phil, Sir, I don't know you; and I don't want to disrespect you in any way by debating this with you. In your mind and to your understanding, everything you say must be true, or why would you say it? It's at least true to you, and Sir, I have to respect that. Also if you notice, I tried to not make the Black Americans look totally at fault. I said both races where at blame, that it was collective abuse. I tried to not say anything bad about Mr. Cosby, etc. And I didn't name the leader. Who are you protecting. And why is it so important to protect them?
Last edited by leosprycat on Fri 12 Jan 2007 04:48; edited 1 time in total
"Then you turn around and say you doubt that I'm being truthful. Then you move on to saying that I'm "definitely misconstruing something".
I just said I doubted it. The part I thought you were misconstruing was specifically her conflict with cosby and the show, and the reasons for her being fired (moved to "A different world").
....anyway If I came off as being confrontational, I apologize; its really not that serious. I meant to politely disagree.
I still think the alleged issue over her multi-racial identity is being exaggerated. Lisa Bonet, was under alot of critisism during that period........for her wild lifestyle, which belied the wholesome Cosby family image.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 168 } Location: Mid-Atlantic States; USA
Posted: Fri 12 Jan 2007 04:54 Post subject:
Phil345 wrote:
Quote:
"Then you turn around and say you doubt that I'm being truthful. Then you move on to saying that I'm "definitely misconstruing something".
I just said I doubted it. The part I thought you were misconstruing was specifically her conflict with cosby and the show, and the reasons for her being fired (moved to "A different world").
....anyway If I came off as being confrontational, I apologize; its really not that serious. I meant to politely disagree.
I still think the alleged issue over her multi-racial identity is being exaggerated. Lisa Bonet, was under alot of critisism during that period........for her wild lifestyle, which belied the wholesome Cosby family image.
No problem, Sir, you certainly have every right in the world to disagree.
And Phil, I think you've done so in a very agreeable manner (smile). I'm
honored to be able to meet you. By the way, Mr. Phil, I am sincere when
I speak of the respect I have for you, because I do. Maybe if Lisa had felt
more accepted and less alone, she wouldn't have felt the need to rebel.
Can anyone honestly believe that her choice back then to self-identify as
a multiracial was looked at kindly by those by whom she was surrounded?
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 168 } Location: Mid-Atlantic States; USA
Posted: Fri 12 Jan 2007 14:32 Post subject:
G-Man wrote:
I know one or two of my black friends in college were hostile to how she identified. Frankly, I was little concerned about her choice too because my thinking on racial issues was different back then, but wasn’t as hysterical about it as some of the people I ran with back then.
zsana wrote:
I remember years and years ago (back when Bryant Gumble was still on the Today Show) she was interviewed. I think it was after that movie Angel Heart. Oh my God that was 20 years ago!
Anyway, she was being interviewed by Bryant and he was saying things like "you're young, successful, attractive, talented, blah blah blah...", than he said "and black". Lisa piped up - OK she raised her voice a little - and said "NOT black".
(..........)
Bryant looked kinda shocked and perplexed. He paused, then he went on with the interview.
So yes, Mr. Phil (big smile), maybe you hadn't heard about
Ms. Lisa's public self-identification as a Multiracial person, but
it was indeed what the brave little Lady was doing. And Lisa
was out there, pretty much all by herself, taking a huge risk.
I just think she and our other pathfinders like her deserve so
much of our respect. Those were tough days. It wasn't easy.
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 {Posts: 300 } Location: Chatsworth, CA
Posted: Fri 12 Jan 2007 18:19 Post subject:
I recall the controversy over Bonet's role in Angel Heart. She did a nude scene, and later on she admitted that she and Mickey Rourke actually had sex on camera. This was a conflict with her supposedly wholesome image in her role on the Cosby show.
I didn't hear about any death threats, but death threats are routine for any actor on a hit show who takes any controversial position.
I also recall that the black American reaction to Bonet and the other biracial actress on the Cosby show was complex. Some black Americans said that they were obviously mixed, not "black" enough to be playing daughters in a black family.
It's clear now that the Cosby show was the height of Bonet's career. Even though she didn't identify as black, she was seen by white Americans in the entertainment industry as black, so she didn't get the roles she would have been a natural for. No role as one of Jerry's girlfriends on Seinfeld, no role on Friends, no roles in mainstream studio movies. She was good in High Fidelity where she was one of John Cusack's love interests.
I would like to see biracial actresses cast in "white" roles without apology or explanation, but people in the industry are generally afraid that the white audience will react negatively.
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 {Posts: 300 } Location: Chatsworth, CA
Posted: Fri 12 Jan 2007 21:20 Post subject:
Didn't see Gothika. I know it was a star vehicle, but was Berry's character in that film situated in a black American social and cultural context? That's usually what's done when a project is intended for a black identified star as opposed to the default white star. Sometimes a black American writer is brought in to make the dialogue in the script more "black", sort of like the black English vernacular accented bonafides you referenced in another thread.
Jennifer Beals has in fact been cast in "white" roles, but not front and center enough for my taste. I was dissapointed to see her cast as the tragic mulatto in Devil In a Blue Dress. Why not cast, say, and Italian American actress in that role, and cast Beals as say, a Mafia wife?
Eurasians usually count as white, as Melanie noted on another thread. No one thinks of Keanau Reeves or Jennifer Tilly as non white.
Didn't see Gothika. I know it was a star vehicle, but was Berry's character in that film situated in a black American social and cultural context? That's usually what's done when a project is intended for a black identified star as opposed to the default white star. Sometimes a black American writer is brought in to make the dialogue in the script more "black", sort of like the black English vernacular accented bonafides you referenced in another thread.
Jennifer Beals has in fact been cast in "white" roles, but not front and center enough for my taste. I was dissapointed to see her cast as the tragic mulatto in Devil In a Blue Dress. Why not cast, say, and Italian American actress in that role, and cast Beals as say, a Mafia wife?
Eurasians usually count as white, as Melanie noted on another thread. No one thinks of Keanau Reeves or Jennifer Tilly as non white.
This has nothing to do with Zoe Kravitz but I must ask, is Jennifer Beals' role in "The L Word" a default white role or is race a total non issue. I've never seen the show. (Maybe Zoe will audition for a part? )
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 {Posts: 300 } Location: Chatsworth, CA
Posted: Fri 12 Jan 2007 22:20 Post subject:
Pam Grier was cast as Beals' sister, which I assume situates them both as either black or multiracial. Grier has always had a strongly black identified film persona, Beals has generally not had one.
Interesting article on Pam Grier. She talks about coming to grips with the barriers faced by "women of color" in Hollywood.
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. None of these women is black. I’m not aware of him being linked to any black women recently. Bonet’s dating habits apparently don’t include many black men.
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