Posted: Tue 02 Jan 2007 14:58 Post subject: Re: Self-denigration
Powell wrote:
Self-denigration by calling herself a "nigger" doesn't convert any racists.
Really strange. She says that she has never suffered from discrimination. Apparently, her sole complaint is that some White people use the term "nigger." This evidently offends her. Her response? She encourages such usage by publicly applying the term to herself. Any sane foreigner witnessing the exchange would think that she wants to be called "nigger."
I can understand the desire to express offense at such usage. But she would accomplish more if she simply explained that she dislikes the word, and added, if desired, that she herself has a trace of invisible African ancestry.
This opens up the entire issue of "nigger" usage--that many sincerely believe that members of the African-American community are allowed, even encouraged, to use the term, but that it is offensive only when used by a non-member of that community. One of the challenges that I will face in discussing Stephen Foster's music in my upcoming series of lectures (at the Stephen Foster State Park) is to explain why his most anti-racist songs (which Frederick Douglass credited with inspiring abolitionism) often use the terms "nigger" and "darkey." (The question is whether the words were offensive in 1856, and whether Foster knew it.) It seems to me that if a word is known to offend, then no sensitive caring person should use it.
Apparently, the writer is either insensitive or uncaring.
I don't think that she is refering to herself as a nigger per se. WHat she is saying is that if you call Blacks niggers she feels you are talking about her as well. So if you insult them, you insult her. So don't try to act all friendly with her if you are going to make racist remarks about "niggers" as she is one of them too.
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 {Posts: 300 } Location: Chatsworth, CA
Posted: Tue 02 Jan 2007 16:17 Post subject:
She's expressing her identification with the cultural community of people of Jamaican ancestry who are often labeled "niggers" in both the US and Britain. In effect, she says, "I am part of that community too. You label them, you label me as well."
Within the framework of American culture, the equation is African ancestry = nigger = subhuman. She puts herself in the equation and thereby nullifies it.
If the people she met had substituted "filthy blacks" for "nigger", and she had said, "I'm black, too," would the outcome be any different?
Worrying about the particular phrase is little more than semantics. What's significant is the hate behind the words.
I don't think that she is refering to herself as a nigger per se. WHat she is saying is that if you call Blacks niggers she feels you are talking about her as well. So if you insult them, you insult her. So don't try to act all friendly with her if you are going to make racist remarks about "niggers" as she is one of them too.
Hello, everyone. I am the author of "I am a nigger," and in the interest of full disclosure, I have asked to have the text removed from this forum in light of the existing link to it on my Vox page.
I do not believe I am being self-denigrating by calling myself a nigger, in this context. (And, to be clear, this is a word I do not normally use, in any context.) Indeed I am clearly making this unambiguous pronouncement in broad daylight, so to speak. It is a statement I make in righteous indignation and irritation, and with a certain amount of rebellious pride. I have no intention of trying to convert racists (assuming such a thing would be possible in the first place). I have no intention of encouraging others to use this (or any other) word. All I am saying is: Look, you idiot, I am a member of the group that you are so stupidly disparaging, and I find what you say offensive. There are some other subtexts there, as well, but this is the heart of the matter. (IOW, Salsassin and Triguy are correct!)
WRT being Jamaican...I have never been properly identified as such, as I do not have an accent. I typically have to convince other Jamaicans that I am also Jamaican, in fact. Growing up there, being a nigger (or not) was a non-issue. This is a overwhelmingly American dialogue, I am afraid. I challenge you to find someone in Jamaica who believes that their African heritage makes them the slightest bit subhuman. This is a preposterous concept, to me. When I was growing up, we (Jamaicans) were simply not socialized this way. In many ways, being a person of color is an entirely different experience here than it is in the islands, where nearly every family is multiracial.
Finally, I chose to apply the label to myself, also, because in my opinion, I am exactly the same as any other person of color. So, if you call blacks "crazy-eyed blue people" and claim not to like them, I feel you really need to call me a crazy-eyed blue person, too, if you are going to discuss your small-minded views with me.
Thank you for your interest in what was, in essence, a well-read temper tantrum...
Yvette.
Last edited by yvette on Sat 20 Jan 2007 03:39; edited 1 time in total
I was very moved by what you wrote and that's why I shared it here. Thank you for setting the record straight concerning the reasons why you react the way you do under such stressful, racist, and disturbing circumstances. I also immediatly understood the reasons behind your pronouncements.
In the past, other authors of articles posted here at ODR have introduced themselves and made short comments. Never to be heard from again.
I sincerely hope you are an exception. I feel your input regarding this "race" business would be insightful coming from a non-American raised point of view.
Again, welcome to the this forum and I look forward to reading more from you in the future.
The issue of race is also a curious thing. Other than the slightly bizarre discussions in which I ocasionally find myself, I can count on two hands the number of minutes I spend thinking about my racial identity, on a yearly basis.
If my opinions are ever of use, I would be happy to contribute. This is certainly a very interesting place!
And I have noticed a typo in my last response. I meant to say: "So, if you call blacks "crazy-eyed blue people" and claim not to like them, I feel you really need to call me a crazy-eyed blue person, too..."
Hello, everyone. I am the author of "I am a nigger," and in the interest of full disclosure, I have asked to have the text removed from this forum in light of the existing link to it on my Vox page.
I do not believe I am being self-denigrating by calling myself a nigger, in this context. (And, to be clear, this is a word I do not normally use, in any context.) Indeed I am clearly making this unambiguous pronouncement in broad daylight, so to speak. It is a statement I make in righteous indignation and irritation, and with a certain amount of rebellious pride. I have no intention of trying to convert racists (assuming such a thing would be possible in the first place). I have no intention of encouraging others to use this (or any other) word. All I am saying is: Look, you idiot, I am a member of the group that you are so stupidly disparaging, and I find what you say offensive. There are some other subtexts there, as well, but this is the heart of the matter. (IOW, Salsassin and Triguy are correct!)
WRT being Jamaican...I have never been properly identified as such, as I do not have an accent. I typically have to convince other Jamaicans that I am also Jamaican, in fact. Growing up there, being a nigger (or not) was a non-issue. This is a overwhelmingly American dialogue, I am afraid. I challenge you to find someone in Jamaica who believes that their African heritage makes them the slightest bit subhuman. This is a preposterous concept, to me. When I was growing up, we (Jamaicans) were simply not socialized this way. In many ways, being a person of color is an entirely different experience here than it is in the islands, where nearly every family is multiracial.
Finally, I chose to apply the label to myself, also, because in my opinion, I am exactly the same as any other person of color. So, if you call blacks "crazy-eyed blue people and claim not to like them," I feel you really need to call me a crazy-eyed blue person, too, if you are going to discuss your small-minded views with me.
Thank you for your interest in what was, in essence, a well-read temper tantrum...
Yvette.
I'm loving the fact that, for once, the author of a text that we debate on the board can confirm the actual meaning of it. I read Yvette's stated intent into her words and happy to see that I didn't misinterpret them. Welcome to the board Yvette! Please continue to jump right in.
Thank you for your kind welcome, Maya. To date, I have received over 100 comments and about 150 e-mail messages about this article, and every last person has perfectly understood what I was trying to say.
To be honest, I am a little mystified that I could be so drastically misinterpreted here, of all places.
But, I live and learn!
Last edited by yvette on Thu 18 Jan 2007 23:38; edited 2 times in total
Thank you for your kind welcome, Maya. To date, I have received over 100 comments and about 150 e-mail messages about this article, and every last person has perfectly understood what I was trying to say.
To be honest, I am a little mystified that I could be so drastically misinterpreted here, of all places.
But, I live and learn!
I'm not. Opinions here about visibly mixed folks declaring identity X are very impassioned. But you'll find that quite a few people here "get" your point of view.
Yvette, I understand and "get you." Sometimes people can be deliberately obtuse as way to forward their racial politics.
As far as I can tell, everyone here understands and sympathizes with her motives. As I said, "I can understand the desire to express offense at such usage."
The only difference of opinion expressed here so far, is over the strategy's effectiveness. As I said, "She would accomplish more if she simply explained that she dislikes the word, and added, if desired, that she herself has a trace of invisible African ancestry." And, again, "It is smarter and more effective to express offense at an offensive label without self-applying it."
Please try to grasp the content of the difference in opinion, rather attributing political motives to those with whom you disagree.
The specific issue (of the difference in opinion) IS NOT: Is her calling herself a "nigger" justified? Is her reaction laudable? Is her reaction understandable? Is her reaction right, ethical, moral, and good? Would you react the same way? Do some think that everyone should adopt the same strategy? The answers to all of those questions is undoubtedly "yes."
The specific issue (of the difference in opinion) IS ONLY: Does her calling herself a "nigger" have the desired effect? I suggest that if the desired effect was to feel vindicated by embarrassing someone, then the answer is also "yes." But if the goal was to change behavior when she is not around then, in my opinion, the strategy she chose is not very effective.
Again. This is not an issue of understanding or even agreeing with her righteous motives. It is solely an issue over the EFFECTIVENESS of her strategy as a behavior-modification technique.
Triguy suggests that anyone who shares Yvette's goals and feelings but who also thinks that there are MORE EFFECTIVE ways of changing people's behavior is being "deliberately obtuse as way to forward their racial politics." This is worse than nonsense. It is ad hominem nonsense.
Last edited by fwsweet on Fri 19 Jan 2007 17:13; edited 1 time in total
This is solely an issue over the EFFECTIVENESS of her strategy as a behavior-modification technique.
To be constructive in my criticism, let me propose an alternative. The following is taken from one of the business cards that Adrian Piper (also a White-looking but Black-identified woman) used to hand out in such situations.
Adrian Piper wrote:
Dear Friend,
I am black. I am sure you did not realize this when you made/laughed at/agreed with that racist remark. In the past, I have attempted to alert white people to my racial identity in advance. Unfortunately, this invariably causes them to react to me as pushy, manipulative, or socially inappropriate. Therefore, my policy is to assume that white people do not make these remarks, even when they believe there are no black people present, and to distribute this card when they do. I regret any discomfort my presence is causing you, just as I am sure you regret the discomfort your racism is causing me.
Sincerely yours,
Adrian Margaret Smith Piper
Piper's approach (handing out the above card) had the desired effect.
I am not suggesting that Yvette make up business cards to hand out on such occassions (apparently it happened often to Ms. Piper). For one thing, Piper's business cards became so famous and in-demand in Washington DC, that people would deliberately say racist things just to get one of her cards. I merely suggest that Piper's tact, and avoidance of self-applying a derogatory term, actually did change people's behavior, even when she was not present.
Yvette, I understand and "get you." Sometimes people can be deliberately obtuse as way to forward their racial politics.
As far as I can tell, everyone here understands and sympathizes with her motives. As I said, "I can understand the desire to express offense at such usage."
The only difference of opinion expressed here so far, is over the strategy's effectiveness. As I said, "She would accomplish more if she simply explained that she dislikes the word, and added, if desired, that she herself has a trace of invisible African ancestry." And, again, "It is smarter and more effective to express offense at an offensive label without self-applying it."
Please try to grasp the content of the difference in opinion, rather attributing political motives to those with whom you disagree.
The specific issue (of the difference in opinion) IS NOT: Is her calling herself a "nigger" justified? Is her reaction laudable? Is her reaction understandable? Is her reaction right, ethical, moral, and good? Would you react the same way? Do some think that everyone should adopt the same strategy? The answers to all of those questions is undoubtedly "yes."
The specific issue (of the difference in opinion) IS ONLY: Does her calling herself a "nigger" have the desired effect? I suggest that if the desired effect was to feel vindicated by embarrassing someone, then the answer is also "yes." But if the goal was to change behavior when she is not around then, in my opinion, the strategy she chose is not very effective.
Again. This is not an issue of understanding or even agreeing with her righteous motives. It is solely an issue over the EFFECTIVENESS of her strategy as a behavior-modification technique.
Triguy suggests that anyone who shares Yvette's goals and feelings but who also thinks that there are MORE EFFECTIVE ways of changing people's behavior is being "deliberately obtuse as way to forward their racial politics." This is worse than nonsense. It is ad hominem nonsense.
Frank,
Please, don't put words in my mouth. Being "more effective" is subjective and reflects one's racial politics. You have your way and others have theirs. I see no problem with Yvette's direct approach. I also don't think a foreigner would be confused at all by her statement if she knew anything about American culture. Embarrassing a fool to teach her/him a lesson has been a part of American culture for a long time.
And let's be honest, this site is a lot about identity or racial politics.
Its directness is effective; but its use of "nigger" is not.
triguy wrote:
I also don't think a foreigner would be confused at all by her statement if she knew anything about American culture.
Come now. We have had members post about being called a "nigger" in Romania by people who thought it was a respectful term (learned from rap videos). We have had members post about seeing a roadside inn in Africa named "Niggers" because they wanted to attract American tourists, again thinking that it was a respectful term (learned from the same source).
triguy wrote:
Embarrassing a fool to teach her/him a lesson has been a part of American culture for a long time.
Correct. If the goal is to "teach him a lesson," fine. But if the goal is to change future behavior when you are not around, using "nigger" does not do the job. What comes across is "I can use the word because I am Black, but don't you dare use it or I will humiliate you, because you are White. Only Black people are authorized to use that word." Is that really the lesson that you want to teach?
Oh boy. Fsweet, despite what I have specifically stated were my intentions, you're continuing to assert other things that have nothing to do with me or my personal tirade. I believe this is why you're getting some push-back here.
Since you've brought up Adrian Piper, I'll echo her statement that I have earned the right to call myself anything I like. That's the first thing.
Suffice it to say that there are very many reasons why it's not my responsibility to (try to) "educate" the bigots of the world. I have no interest in (trying to) convert a racist...or a misogynist, for that matter, or any other such person whose sensibilities clash so profoundly with my own. However, I do choose how I will allow myself to be treated and with whom I will associate.
My goal is to make an ass of every last person on the planet who insists on speaking to ME about "niggers". I don't care what they do or say when I am not around. That's their business. I do plan to control their level of comfort around ME. Specifically, I want them to feel so uncomfortable in my presence that their visceral reaction is to flee from any room that I enter. This is my goal. And my strategy has been extremely effective.
You need not agree with my method OR my madness, but this is my motive; this is my strategy; this is my goal.
And, obviously, you are far better educated about the history of racism than I ever hope to be, but I believe that Adrian Piper's cards were part of a performance art piece. The cards were made for (primarily) white Americans to distribute, given her belief that we are all equally black. I was under the impression that the cards were, therefore, meant to me ironic. As she explains in her essay, "Passing For White, Passing For Black," she periodically needed to inform and educate her racist peers and professors. I do not know her personally, but I would bet, based on the nature and tone of her art, writing, and letters that she is NOT the kind of person that walks through life apologizing for her existence or the color of her skin, as the cards suggest. However, an "anglo" housewife in Des Moines issuing such warnings and apologies would have a dramatic impact on the average racist. If you have reason to believe otherwise, I do hope you'll share.
In any case, Adrian Piper and I do not share a need for academic decorum. There is an African proverb that says, "If there is no enemy within, the enemies outside cannot hurt you." I take this as fact. Plus, I am usually uniformly surrounded by people who are more prejudiced against cats than they are against people of color. I have the great luxury of picking my battles, which is why I can afford to be as mouthy as I am. I wish this were the case for everyone.
Incidentally, I believe it is nonsense that certain of us should happily use this word and others of us should not. I am specifically weilding the word as a weapon. I would never address another human being this way.
'
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