Should moderators be held to higher standards?

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Salsassin
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Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3508 }

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 08:55 Post subject: Should moderators be held to higher standards?

[This thread was split off from Topic of "Liberal Racism" and effects on U.S. society in the "Improving U.S. Society" forum -- FWS]

As owner of this board, I expect that you will hold the moderators of this board to these higher standards as well.

DChapman wrote:

state that this is your own unsubstantiated OPINION. This is a standard tactic of the left.

Unsubstantiated political jabs are just as much opinion, yet DChapman states them as fact. Where is his evidence that the "Left" uses unsubstantiated opinions as standard tactics, or that the "Right" he so ardently supports by inference does not use these tactics in any way that is similar to the "Left."

G-Man
Moderator

Joined: 27 Nov 2004
{Posts: 2652 }

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 12:52 Post subject:

triguy wrote:

Yeah, the problems of "racism" and "racialism" are the fault of "liberal Democrats." Things would be so much better if we just pretended that there was no racism.

It's interesting to see how this guy is more than willing to ignore the "racialist" rantings of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, etc.

Actually, this is a straw man as he doesn't claim that the problems of racism are the fault of liberal Democrats.

His article is discussing the perils of what he describes as liberal racism and how "it" and its sensationalistic claims of never-ending racism fuel racial division and less effective approaches to problems. To a certain extent he is correct.

Much of our poverty fighting strategies in this country are premised on the notion that all people in legally-defined disadvantaged groups are indistinguishable socially and economically, as are all people in advantaged groups. Inevitably, this has led to the adoption of policies that do very little to address the condition of actual poor people in this country, but actually empower the more privileged of legally-disadvantaged groups.

Moreover, the prevailing wisdom today that disparities between groups are a priori proof of racial discrimination and only that has crowded out the introduction of other factors that may carry as much or more explanatory power, and may ultimately lead to more efficacious public policy making if they were acknowledged

DChapman
Moderator

Joined: 27 Nov 2004
{Posts: 1466 }
Location: Hudson Valley, NY

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 12:54 Post subject:

Salsassin wrote:

As owner of this board, I expect that you will hold the moderators of this board to these higher standards as well.

DChapman wrote:

state that this is your own unsubstantiated OPINION. This is a standard tactic of the left.

You want evidence that the "left" uses unsubstantiated opinions as standard tactics Question

You have to look no further than the article that triguy posted as his "evidence" that Sean Hannity went on "racialist" rantings. Bascically, the article is about Hal Turner who used to or perhaps still does call Hannity's show. Nothing, in the article has any direct quotes attributed to Hannity himself. This is a smear. At least when people like me and Hannity want to prove racial rhetoric from the "left" or Democrats, we use direct quotes, as in Robert Byrd of WV.

If you would like more examples, I will gladly post them as I get time. I will create a new thread, and we can discuss it there.

Salsassin
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Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3508 }

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 12:57 Post subject:

No, that some liberals use those tactics is not evidence that it is standard for the Left. Or by inference, that it is not standard for the Right. I await your evidence of this standard.

Salsassin
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Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3508 }

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 12:58 Post subject:

As evidence, that it is no more a standard of theLeft than the Right, I give this website: http://www.factcheck.org/

chasbyrd
Guru
Guru

Joined: 27 Nov 2004
{Posts: 389 }
Location: NYC

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 14:16 Post subject:

Salsassin wrote:

As owner of this board...

Frank's not the owner?

fwsweet
Administrator

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
{Posts: 4587 }
Location: Palm Coast, FL

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 14:26 Post subject:

chasbyrd wrote:

Salsassin wrote:

As owner of this board...

Frank's not the owner?

Must have been a Freudian slip.

fwsweet
Administrator

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
{Posts: 4587 }
Location: Palm Coast, FL

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 14:33 Post subject: Re: Should moderators be held to higher standards?

Salsassin wrote:

As owner of this board, I expect that you will hold the moderators of this board to these higher standards as well.

I hold moderators to the same standards as everyone else. But moderators volunteer to enforce the standards as well as abide by them. It is inevitable (and desirable) that each forum reflect its moderator's interpretation of the common rules.

Dean expresses his own political convictions, as does everyone posting in his forum. But I have yet to see evidence that his personal convictions have biased his judgment in enforcing the rules.

Triguy has demonstrated a real problem in following the rules. He has been suspended three times since last Thanksgiving. His most recent suspension was for two weeks. His next suspension will be for one month (unless I am persuaded by his own affirmation to ban him permanently).

Salsassin
Suspended

Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3508 }

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 15:29 Post subject:

fwsweet wrote:

chasbyrd wrote:

Salsassin wrote:

As owner of this board...

Frank's not the owner?

Must have been a Freudian slip.

Naw, I mean you moderate the moderators. Shouldn't they be held to the same standards?

Salsassin
Suspended

Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3508 }

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 15:30 Post subject:

Adn you wouldn't say claiming the Left has a standard tactic is making a claim of fact based on an opinion? Dean has jumped down my throat for much less.

G-Man
Moderator

Joined: 27 Nov 2004
{Posts: 2652 }

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 15:33 Post subject:

Quote:

Naw, I mean you moderate the moderators. Shouldn't they be held to the same standards?

I agree. But that can be enforced by doing what you did-pointing out a logical fallacy in a moderator's response or post.

It is odd though that Triguy is still on this trip that DChapman supports militias overthrowing the government.

DChapman
Moderator

Joined: 27 Nov 2004
{Posts: 1466 }
Location: Hudson Valley, NY

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 16:00 Post subject:

Salsassin wrote:

Adn you wouldn't say claiming the Left has a standard tactic is making a claim of fact based on an opinion? Dean has jumped down my throat for much less.

Jaime, the last time we really had a knock down was last July. It was a heated debate and you ended up calling me a "nazi". You would not retract or apologize. So I really don't know where you're coming from here when you say that I have jumped down your throat for much less.

I have at times Jaime, also pointed out your good points and where I agree with you, and most recently, acknowledged your source when I erroneously stated that I didn't think there have been KKK rallies within the last 10 years.

I have been fair. People who are at odds with my political beliefs may beg to differ. I'm ok with that.

sagascend
Moderator

Joined: 17 Jun 2006
{Posts: 2112 }

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 16:22 Post subject: Re: Should moderators be held to higher standards?

Salsassin wrote:

DChapman wrote:

state that this is your own unsubstantiated OPINION. This is a standard tactic of the left.

I have to back Jaime up here. It is no secret that many members and moderators have strong political beliefs and an orientation on the left-right continuum that infuse their rhetoric. What continues to irk me about these debates is that it can be shown, time and time again, that whatever "tactics" one side accuses the other of using are also used at their discretion (and obviously shouldn't be called out because THEY were RIGHT to do so Rolling Eyes

). It is also better, IMO, to acknowledge that there is no monolithic "Left" or "Right" that operates in lock-step. The truth is much more complicated unless I have missed something. In that regard, I agree that moderators should take care to be less polemical in their fora.

Salsassin
Suspended

Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3508 }

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 16:46 Post subject:

DChapman wrote:

Salsassin wrote:

Adn you wouldn't say claiming the Left has a standard tactic is making a claim of fact based on an opinion? Dean has jumped down my throat for much less.

ANd I wasn't accusing you of being literaly a nazi. It was either a simile or somethimg like that. i forget what. I was making a point, that you didn't like. I was painting you (on purpose) with a broad brush to make a point. The same broad brush you like to paint "The Left" with.

Quote:

I have at times Jaime, also pointed out your good points and where I agree with you, and most recently, acknowledged your source when I erroneously stated that I didn't think there have been KKK rallies within the last 10 years.

I have been fair. People who are at odds with my political beliefs may beg to differ. I'm ok with that.

Oh, I agree with you many times. I just think you should chill on some types of inflammatory rhetoric that seeks to stereotype. Point out the specifics and don't make broad claims. Sagasend stated what i wanted to say, quite succinctly.

DChapman
Moderator

Joined: 27 Nov 2004
{Posts: 1466 }
Location: Hudson Valley, NY

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 17:10 Post subject:

Salsassin wrote:

ok, but I didn't use inflammatory names like "nazi" did I??

Salsassin wrote:

Oh, I agree with you many times. I just think you should chill on some types of inflammatory rhetoric that seeks to stereotype. Point out the specifics and don't make broad claims.

Good point. I will do this from now on. The article I co-wrote about Global Warming, we stayed away from rhetoric that could polarize, left/right rhetoric. I will stick to the specifics, and when making a broad statement, state it is my opinion, which I usually do with "IMO".

Salsassin
Suspended

Joined: 04 Apr 2005
{Posts: 3508 }

Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2007 17:58 Post subject:

Fair enough.

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