Posted: Wed 01 Dec 2004 23:02 Post subject: Another Latino Hypocrite on "race"
If "race" is as important as Rodriguez claims, why are Hispanics allowed to bypass the "race" question entirely? Isn't a "white" Cuban treated differently from a "black" Puerto Rican or a Mexican "Indio" or a "mulatto" Dominican?
"Hispanic" is a "mixed race" category. Rodriguez just wants to keep the gringo mestizos out.
Never count Ward Connerly out. One of these days, his vision of a multiracial America free of bigotry and discrimination just might come true. It's just that we're centuries away from that utopia, and the Colorblind One can't wait.
First, he led the movement and ballot initiative that banned affirmative action in California state and local government and education eight years ago. Then he took the anti-affirmative-action crusade to other states, with enough success to keep him going.
But he began to overreach. Last year, California voters decidedly rejected another Connerly initiative that would have prevented state and local governments from collecting racial information on individuals. Voters either saw the wisdom of tracking discrimination or diseases by race, or they didn't buy the argument that government promotes racism simply by collecting racial information, or both.
But as I said, Connerly can't wait.
A member of the University of California Board of Regents, he recently proposed a ``multiracial'' check box for student applications. The regents shot down the idea Wednesday, but Connerly already knew it was coming.
``The effort will fail, because the mono-racialists oppose it,'' he wrote to me in an e-mail before the regents voted. ``But, someday, it will happen.''
The regents offered good and bad reasons.
There's no urgency for a multiracial box. Student applicants still can check one or more of 13 race and ethnicity boxes, including ``other.'' That spectrum covers the majority of students who tend to identify with one racial group even if they have a mixed-race background. It also satisfies Latino students, who tend to identify themselves more by ethnicity or national origin, such as Mexican-American, than by race.
The problem with Connerly's multiracial box was that students could check it without explanation. It wasn't specific enough. On paper, a black-white student could look the same as an Asian-Hispanic.
Meanwhile, the regents also rejected the idea because the university must comply with federal guidelines, which are too specific. Most federal departments don't include a multiracial category. They prefer everyone boiled down to white, Asian, American Indian, black or Latino, because anyone more complex messes up databases and makes it harder to monitor discrimination.
So we're sort of trapped between the familiar, racial rigidity of the past and the confusing melting pot of the future.
I'm for mapping the future. Race still matters, and it will for a long time, but hewing to the five rigid racial categories looks more like a Rip Van Winkle proposition with every passing year. It shouldn't be too difficult to ask the growing number of multiracial people to describe their mix, and do it without turning them into groupless, gray-faced characters from a science-fiction novel. We ought to get some census geeks working on that software.
I was reminded of all this future by a letter from a woman whose mother was half Japanese and Irish. Her father was half Mexican and Filipino. She'd heard and seen it all, from awkward questions about her background to outright bigotry from minorities as well as whites.
``If people shudder at my existence, that's only because of their qualms,'' she wrote. ``And that's something for which they should be ashamed. . . . A utopia where everyone is accepting of `mixed breeds' would be nice, though, realistically, we are a long way off. I am living proof.''
Someone ought to clue Connerly in as well.
JOE RODRIGUEZ's columns appear Tuesday and Friday. Contact him at (408) 920-5767 or jrodriguez@mercurynews.com.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Sun 12 Jun 2005 05:28 Post subject: Re: Another Latino Hypocrite on \"race\"
Powell wrote:
If "race" is as important as Rodriguez claims, why are Hispanics allowed to bypass the "race" question entirely? Isn't a "white" Cuban treated differently from a "black" Puerto Rican or a Mexican "Indio" or a "mulatto" Dominican?
"Hispanic" is a "mixed race" category. Rodriguez just wants to keep the gringo mestizos out.
As I said one time to a Hindi-Hispanic person who was upset for the discrimination of the Indians, who considered him an outsider, while the Latinos considered him part of the team: forget those stupid East Asians that don't have anything on the brain. If one got one drop of Hispanic IS HISPANIC. That's you identity.
So a "mestizo" gringo-Latino, as you called it, is a Hispanic by right. Nothing wrong with that and nothing new either, lots of Anglos have migrated and live with us south of the border, since the times of the Spanish Empire. Not all the gringos like the "gringo" way of living.
We are NOT hypocrites. We just don't want to play the Gringo game.
We don't care about the White race because that means for us just Gringo. And we ARE NOT gringos; thanks God!! And we don't like gringo attitude with us either, I tell you.
If you want to understand the Latino mind, start with the "Cosmic Race" ideology. Don't judge it. It is enough for you understand what it really means to us.
We are proud of our people and our culture. We know our history as well, and we do know that part of our "manifest destiny" is to colonize the United States. That is, metaphorically, a revenge for all the invasions the United States has done to as.
That's not hypocrecy. I am telling you what is in the mind of half a billion Latinos in both the Americas and Europe. That's not a mistery. Is enough to read Spanish to get the way we think.
We consider Blacks, Whites and Asians of the United States as other peoples with which we can relationate in friendly terms, if they want to. That does not depends on us but on them.
The racial dispute between Gringos and Blacks make us feel tired, because that is not our reality. Besides, the world is not just Black and White. There is a Cosmic Race knocking at the back door.
Posted: Mon 13 Jun 2005 13:49 Post subject: Another Latino Hypocrite on "race"
Quote:
We are NOT hypocrites. We just don't want to play the Gringo game. We don't care about the White race because that means for us just Gringo. And we ARE NOT gringos; thanks God!! And we don't like gringo attitude with us either, I tell you.
If you want to understand the Latino mind, start with the "Cosmic Race" ideology. Don't judge it. It is enough for you understand what it really means to us. proud of our people and our culture.
Firstly, Powell’s statement was in reference to a U.S.-based writer of Latino origin.
Secondly, though this is not what Powell had in mind when she used the term, many Latinos are hypocrites when it comes to issues of race.
You say you-meaning all Latinos-don’t care about the white race (or being white?), yet a large percentage of Latinos here and in Latin America see themselves as white. Despite the existence of the “Cosmic Race” as you call it (which, initially at least, was seen as a combination of Spanish and Indian, not African), Spanish-language broadcast and print media-both in the U.S. and in Latin America- are overwhelmingly white. How is this so if you (all Latin Americans that is) are a beyond all of this race stuff?
Claiming that we “gringos”, which is to say anyone who is not Latin American, don’t understand the Latino mind set and how we are not like you, is often employed to ignore Latin America’s own questionable racial history and stifle any discussion of it. I’m not saying this is your intention, I’m simply stating this often done by others.
Concepts like improving the race, purifying the blood underscore the importance of being Spanish or European in appearance in Latin America. Additionally, many Latin American countries had explicit bans on black immigration and immigration of “undesirables”, coupled with racial improvement immigration policies. Brazil is the most obvious example. Jamaican immigrants and their children were restricted to certain areas and denied citizenship in Costa Rica in the early part of the 20th Century. In the 1930s, Panamanian president, Arnulfo Arias’, actually entertained the idea of sterilizing the West Indian population and deporting the Chinese in his country. These things are often overlooked when Latin America’s racial history is romanticized.
Even you admitted in another post that countries, like your native Chile, which are European and Mestizo, are not above discriminating or viewing as unusual black people or people with obvious African ancestry because they are so rare in your countries. If memory serves, you wrote something along the lines that countries that have significant black and mulatto populations (the Caribbean, Brazil, coastal Colombia and parts of Venezuela, etc.) are more welcoming to black people than others, like Argentina and Mexico. If this is so, then are very different picture of Latin America needs to be painted.
Another thing that I think needs to addressed here: Can someone like you, from a country that is essentially European and Mestizo, understand the issues surrounding African ancestry both here as well as in other countries in this hemisphere? Furthermore, can one even make generalizations about how ALL Latin Americans think about race, or more specifically, how they think about African ancestry?
Quote:
We know our history as well, and we do know that part of our "manifest destiny" is to colonize the United States. That is, metaphorically, a revenge for all the invasions the United States has done to as. s not hypocrecy. I am telling you what is in the mind of half a billion Latinos in both the Americas and Europe. That's not a mistery. Is enough to read Spanish to get the way we think.
This reads like Mexican television personality, Jorge Ramos. In other words, it reads like Latino cultural and linguistic chauvinism. In essence “your people” have the right to impose yourselves on us; ignoring the fact that “us” includes all sorts of people (like immigrants) who live here who are not Latino. It’s apparent from your statement that we are expected to accommodate “you”, but “you” are not expected to embrace any give and take when you arrive here. If this attitude is prevalent in Latin America, why should we think that Latinos will be open to any cultural exchanges with people who live in the U.S. or in this hemisphere? If they, in main, have these chauvinistic feelings, how does this benefit us (those of us who are not Latino)?
My apologies if my tone seems belligerent or confrontational.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Mon 13 Jun 2005 19:39 Post subject: Re: Another Latino Hypocrite on "race"
G-Man wrote:
Firstly, Powell’s statement was in reference to a U.S.-based writer of Latino origin.
Yes. I know. However she used the title “Another Latino Hypocrite on "race"”, which I consider an expression that is very hard, indeed. What does it means “Another”? How many “others” Latino Hypocrites are going around? For the title one can assume there are at least 2 Latino Hypocrites, or does she mean 3 or 4, 1 million? Or, as I believe, she meant “Every single Latino is hypocrite in the issue of race?”
I did not like that title at all. At least one Latino is not a hypocrite: I. So I will proceed to answer the following.
Quote:
You say you-meaning all Latinos-don’t care about the white race (or being white?), yet a large percentage of Latinos here and in Latin America see themselves as white. Despite the existence of the “Cosmic Race” as you call it (which, initially at least, was seen as a combination of Spanish and Indian, not African), Spanish-language broadcast and print media-both in the U.S. and in Latin America- are overwhelmingly white. How is this so if you (all Latin Americans that is) are a beyond all of this race stuff?
So now Latinos have some whites. So, when a Latino appears in the Media is white, and when walks in the streets of North America is not. I wonder how much TV in Spanish you people see.
Yes. There are lots of “whites”, as you call those Latinos that are on TV. However, not all of them are as white as you claim. Most would be rejected by the KKK. Why should we do then? Pass a law to forbid “whites” to appear on TV? Develop a Big Cosby franchise for minorities show?
I am really amazed at the double standard. There are some latinos that are blondy and blue eyed. We don’t consider them a different “race” but just a variety of us. It is required that we do START to separate them in a different box?
Quote:
Claiming that we “gringos”, which is to say anyone who is not Latin American, don’t understand the Latino mind set and how we are not like you, is often employed to ignore Latin America’s own questionable racial history and stifle any discussion of it. I’m not saying this is your intention, I’m simply stating this often done by others.
The concept of “gringo” just apply to the WASP. Not to every foreigner. We know who are the ones that have controlled the backyard for two centuries. Those are the ones that we call that way: your whites.
Quote:
Concepts like improving the race, purifying the blood underscore the importance of being Spanish or European in appearance in Latin America. Additionally, many Latin American countries had explicit bans on black immigration and immigration of “undesirables”, coupled with racial improvement immigration policies. Brazil is the most obvious example. Jamaican immigrants and their children were restricted to certain areas and denied citizenship in Costa Rica in the early part of the 20th Century. In the 1930s, Panamanian president, Arnulfo Arias’, actually entertained the idea of sterilizing the West Indian population and deporting the Chinese in his country. These things are often overlooked when Latin America’s racial history is romanticized.
That’s true. The concept of whitening was in fashion in Latin America in Latin America for long time. That’s why we “import” millions of Germans to improve our poor genetic stock, LOL. However, it was a big failure. Germans are not an easy people to assimilate. So, perhaps one day will give them a kick in the back and throw them out of our countries.
However, I must remember that even when we close the door to Asians and Blacks for immigration, the doors were wide open to receive people that really need it, like the Jews during the Second World War. So while Roosvelt closed the land of freedom, we where the real refuge for hundred of thousands of Jews. Remember that as well.
Quote:
Even you admitted in another post that countries, like your native Chile, which are European and Mestizo, are not above discriminating or viewing as unusual black people or people with obvious African ancestry because they are so rare in your countries. If memory serves, you wrote something along the lines that countries that have significant black and mulatto populations (the Caribbean, Brazil, coastal Colombia and parts of Venezuela, etc.) are more welcoming to black people than others, like Argentina and Mexico. If this is so, then are very different picture of Latin America needs to be painted.
Yes. I have never said there is not racism in Latin America. I said there are a lot less that in most other latitudes, though. One thing one has to understand is the attitude with NATIONALS and the one with FOREIGNERS. In Latin America people tends to accepts every complexion of their own citizens, however there are lot of XENOPHOBY, which is not the same as racism. You must understand that.
In the case of Black people, you must look at the number of black peoples in the country of destiny to form you an idea about how the person is going to be received.
Quote:
Another thing that I think needs to addressed here: Can someone like you, from a country that is essentially European and Mestizo, understand the issues surrounding African ancestry both here as well as in other countries in this hemisphere? Furthermore, can one even make generalizations about how ALL Latin Americans think about race, or more specifically, how they think about African ancestry?
…
This reads like Mexican television personality, Jorge Ramos. In other words, it reads like Latino cultural and linguistic chauvinism
Yes. Chauvinism is part of our character. If you have a people which has received kick after kick for two centuries, don’t expect we are going to forget everything in just a moment
Quote:
My apologies if my tone seems belligerent or confrontational.
My apologies too. But I LIKE VERY MUCH this heavy discussions. Don’t take me very seriously, though. I have to admit I am using lots of rethoric
In 1938, when no other nation would welcome Jewish refugees, Rafael Trujillo, the Dominican Republic strongman, offered to take in 100,000. Between 1940 and 1945, 5,000 Dominican visas were issued, but only 645 Jews actually made their way to the Dominican Republic. The refugees settled in the tiny seacoast town of Sosua, then just jungle land, that Trujillo had established with funding provided by the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee.
Upon arrival, every new Jewish settler was given 80 acres of land, 10 cows, a mule and a horse. Although most of the settlers were German or Austrian Jews and had professional or craftsmen's backgrounds, they quickly picked up the agricultural life offered by Sosua and established a successful Jewish cooperative—Productos Sosua—that today produces most of the county's meat and dairy produce.
Trujillo's generosity probably stemmed mainly from his eagerness to have the Western nations overlook his brutal massacre of 25,000 Haitians in 1937, and his desire to "whiten" his race. He believed that the young European men would marry Dominican women and produce light-skinned offspring. He was correct in this in that most settlers were single young men who did marry Dominican women. The children usually considered themselves Jewish and many stayed in Sosua.
Today, only about 30 of the original Jewish families remain in Sosua. By the 1940's, most of the nearly 700 inhabitants had moved to either New York or Miami. Although no longer in the Dominican Republic, the Sosua Jews have maintained a tight-knit community. Until 1980, the town was still entirely Jewish; however, with the opening of the international Puerto Plata airport four miles west of Sosua, the village has turned into a major beach resort.
Today the town has 3,000 full-time residents, with about 70 Jews. Those who did remain in Sosua and held onto their land, have made a fortune. Erik Hauser, an original settler from Vienna, now owns an entire block of the lucrative downtown area, where hotels and restaurants were built on his original 80 acres. He is Sosua's wealthiest resident.
Sosua has one functioning synagogue that holds services every other Shabbat and on the High Holidays. Passover Seders are held in community members homes and an annual Purim carnival is a major community event. The small Jewish community also has a museum dedicated to preserving the history and story of the town's original Jewish settlers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Jerusalem Post, January 6, 1995.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Tue 14 Jun 2005 18:11 Post subject: Re: The Dominican Republic's Haven
Powell wrote:
It was the Dominican Republic, not Latin America in general, that offered refuge to Jews fleeing the Holocaust.
Dear Mrs. or Miss Powell:
Sorry if I got upset, however I don't think Hispanics are hipocrites in the issue of race. Has it happens we see things in a different manner. And we are convinced our society is better in THAT aspect. There are others aspect were the Americans are a lot more advanced. That's what we do believe.
With the issue of the Jews, Spain and Latin America the truth is sad. A lot more could have been done. In Latin America there were people trying to open the gates and other trying to close it. There was not consense and that is shameful in such a critial situation. However, a lot was done:
(1) Spanish dictator Francisco Franco declared that every single Sephardite has Spanish Nationality by right. In practice every single Jew that arrive to Spain was assured immunity. We should remember Sephardite Jews are the descendent of Spaniard Jews.
(2) Portuguese diplomat Dr. Aristides de Sousa Mendes, rescue lots of Jewish Refugees against the will of its own government. He destroyed his career and died in poverty, but is a heroe recognized by Israel.
(3) Venezuela, Colombia, Chile, Argentine, Brazil, Mexico and several other countries recieved hundred of thousands of Jews in those critical days. Today there are 500.000 Jews in Latin America.
(4) Jews are very much a part of Latin America. Some personalities as Mario Kreutzberger, a famous Latino entertainer, for example, is descendent of German Jews. Also the tennis player and Olympic Gold Medal Winner, Nicolas Massu, is descendent of both Jews and Palestineans.
So, Latin America gave a lot of help. I agree with you, though, that could have helped more. More could have be done to save people for the holocaust.
'
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